grimoire2008 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Do you think for PC we will have picture in picture mirrors in vehicles and windows? I think it would be more difficult to truly immerse yourself in first person while driving if you can't see what is behind you with mirrors and instead have to switch views. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyBoy21 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Mods bro. Doom6197 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066786808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaRkL3AD3R Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 We are years away from this in a grand theft auto game. Probably safer to say decade than simply years actually. The amount of resources it takes to rerender a scene just for mirrors makes it completely unviable for current games. Arma let's you try to do this and performance tanks hard. Mods won't be able to do this either. That's engine trickery. Only Rockstar can allow it. And don't count on it even being an option.. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066786833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daformer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Mods bro. ^ Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066786857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braindawg Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Most likely not. it would take 3 times the power to render the reflections and load everything in all 3 mirrors in real time. Either it will work but will look like sh*t because of limitations, or it will look incredible but run like sh*t. Edited January 8, 2015 by MinnieMan121249 Andrius49378 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066787162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
..GhosT Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Looks like sh*t in arma 3 and performance drops way too hard. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066787523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdwarfer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I hope we can see somehting in the mirrors of the vehicles... Otherwise I'm not gonna use the first person view in cars. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066787532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswellboxer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Looks like sh*t in arma 3 and performance drops way too hard. Arma 3 had pretty cool mirror reflections but full scale reflections such as that hog performance quite high and doesn't help Arma 3 is performance intensive game. Edited January 8, 2015 by boswellboxer Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066788556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earleys Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I hope this will be a feature that we could enable if we want to (maybe with a blur slider). I'm pretty sure high end pc's will be able to handle this. It's not like no other game does this. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066788923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumbaclot! Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Huh? You talk like making mirror reflections is something difficult I think I saw mirror reflections many times in driving games Or am I wrong? Edited January 8, 2015 by Bumbaclot! HesamB 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066788992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesamB Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) We are years away from this in a grand theft auto game. Probably safer to say decade than simply years actually. The amount of resources it takes to rerender a scene just for mirrors makes it completely unviable for current games. Arma let's you try to do this and performance tanks hard. Mods won't be able to do this either. That's engine trickery. Only Rockstar can allow it. And don't count on it even being an option.. Simulator games have this, Euro truck simulator 2, farming simulator i think. edit: but these r not open world games like gta, they're open, but not that open. all u see is roads and sh*t. Edited January 8, 2015 by HesamB Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066790179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkjellman Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Do you think for PC we will have picture in picture mirrors in vehicles and windows? I think it would be more difficult to truly immerse yourself in first person while driving if you can't see what is behind you with mirrors and instead have to switch views. It has a blurry reflection picture. I believe the reflections will be higher quality on Ultra settings, so you will be able to see more. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066790425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowls Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 PiP has been a bad experience for me. If you've played Arma 3 on any multiplayer server you'll understand why. There is games that have done it successfully but it'd be pretty damn hard to pull off with good performance in GTA imo. Sticky bombs would be the death of a lot of peoples first person experience. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066790439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimoire2008 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I understand that a lot of people have trouble with PiP, but for me even a low quality one is perfectly fine. Arma 3 PiP does not really tank my FPS at Low or Medium but can definitely see a difference at anything higher. I think it would be nice to at least have the option to use it. The thing with car mirrors is that they would not even need to FULLY render a scene for each mirror again. A left and right mirror can only see so much. Only the rear view mirror would show more. I wonder if R* has ever used anything similar yet in any of their games with the RAGE engine so it could potentially easier to add to V. Edited January 8, 2015 by grimoire2008 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066790690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePwrd Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why the f*ck would you need to re render a scene just to show what's behind you? I'm glad nobody here designs games with that logic. rainlys 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066790922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimoire2008 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Why the f*ck would you need to re render a scene just to show what's behind you? I'm glad nobody here designs games with that logic. Because with the addition of first person in GTA V, it would make sense for you to be able to see behind you without having to switch camera views? Some players, such as myself rather drive in first person instead of third and working mirrors would be nice. It's PC, would not be out of the ordinary to at least have the OPTION to enable it. A low/medium quality PiP would not destroy your performance any more than the option to have different shading or AA quality unless your PC is cheap, but even then no one would be forcing you to enable it. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066791382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePwrd Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Why the f*ck would you need to re render a scene just to show what's behind you? I'm glad nobody here designs games with that logic. Because with the addition of first person in GTA V, it would make sense for you to be able to see behind you without having to switch camera views? Some players, such as myself rather drive in first person instead of third and working mirrors would be nice. It's PC, would not be out of the ordinary to at least have the OPTION to enable it. A low/medium quality PiP would not destroy your performance any more than the option to have different shading or AA quality unless your PC is cheap, but even then no one would be forcing you to enable it. You completely misinterpreted my question, I didn't ask why you would have mirrors on cars, I asked why you would need to render the game twice to display mirrors, why can't the mirrors just draw whats behind you (which would not be that demanding) Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066791558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimoire2008 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Why the f*ck would you need to re render a scene just to show what's behind you? I'm glad nobody here designs games with that logic. Because with the addition of first person in GTA V, it would make sense for you to be able to see behind you without having to switch camera views? Some players, such as myself rather drive in first person instead of third and working mirrors would be nice. It's PC, would not be out of the ordinary to at least have the OPTION to enable it. A low/medium quality PiP would not destroy your performance any more than the option to have different shading or AA quality unless your PC is cheap, but even then no one would be forcing you to enable it. You completely misinterpreted my question, I didn't ask why you would have mirrors on cars, I asked why you would need to render the game twice to display mirrors, why can't the mirrors just draw whats behind you (which would not be that demanding) Ah okay, that was what you meant. Basically, from my understanding, it would have to be rendered twice because your camera is only rendering what it is facing. This means in order for a mirror to show what is behind you, additional cameras would have to be set up that are rendering what they are looking at. So when your rear view mirror shows what is behind u, it is actually rendering what another camera is looking at and then a texture or pixel display of that scene is filled into the mirror. This may not be completely accurate, but a somewhat general way it is done I believe. The reason it is so performance intensive is due to newer game engines rendering basing what you see off how light hits the surface of objects so it requires more processing with shaders etc. When this is done in a low quality way, the performance hit really isn't much at all even with multiple renders. I think it also depends if the engine is built to force a full screen render, or if only parts of a scene can be rendered to save workload. Edited January 9, 2015 by grimoire2008 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066791811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePwrd Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Why the f*ck would you need to re render a scene just to show what's behind you? I'm glad nobody here designs games with that logic. Because with the addition of first person in GTA V, it would make sense for you to be able to see behind you without having to switch camera views? Some players, such as myself rather drive in first person instead of third and working mirrors would be nice. It's PC, would not be out of the ordinary to at least have the OPTION to enable it. A low/medium quality PiP would not destroy your performance any more than the option to have different shading or AA quality unless your PC is cheap, but even then no one would be forcing you to enable it. You completely misinterpreted my question, I didn't ask why you would have mirrors on cars, I asked why you would need to render the game twice to display mirrors, why can't the mirrors just draw whats behind you (which would not be that demanding) Ah okay, that was what you meant. Basically, from my understanding, it would have to be rendered twice because your camera is only rendering what it is facing. This means in order for a mirror to show what is behind you, additional cameras would have to be set up that are rendering what they are looking at. So when your rear view mirror shows what is behind u, it is actually rendering what another camera is looking at and then a texture or pixel display of that scene is filled into the mirror. This may not be completely accurate, but a somewhat general way it is done I believe. The reason it is so performance intensive is due to newer game engines rendering basing what you see off how light hits the surface of objects so it requires more processing with shaders etc. When this is done in a low quality way, the performance hit really isn't much at all even with multiple renders. I think it also depends if the engine is built to force a full screen render, or if only parts of a scene can be rendered to save workload. What renders in the mirrors could be done with less lighting/post processing, like most racing games do. My question was more directed towards people who were suggesting the full scene be completely re-rendered, which would require 2-3 times as much horsepower Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066791831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimoire2008 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Why the f*ck would you need to re render a scene just to show what's behind you? I'm glad nobody here designs games with that logic. Because with the addition of first person in GTA V, it would make sense for you to be able to see behind you without having to switch camera views? Some players, such as myself rather drive in first person instead of third and working mirrors would be nice. It's PC, would not be out of the ordinary to at least have the OPTION to enable it. A low/medium quality PiP would not destroy your performance any more than the option to have different shading or AA quality unless your PC is cheap, but even then no one would be forcing you to enable it. You completely misinterpreted my question, I didn't ask why you would have mirrors on cars, I asked why you would need to render the game twice to display mirrors, why can't the mirrors just draw whats behind you (which would not be that demanding) Ah okay, that was what you meant. Basically, from my understanding, it would have to be rendered twice because your camera is only rendering what it is facing. This means in order for a mirror to show what is behind you, additional cameras would have to be set up that are rendering what they are looking at. So when your rear view mirror shows what is behind u, it is actually rendering what another camera is looking at and then a texture or pixel display of that scene is filled into the mirror. This may not be completely accurate, but a somewhat general way it is done I believe. The reason it is so performance intensive is due to newer game engines rendering basing what you see off how light hits the surface of objects so it requires more processing with shaders etc. When this is done in a low quality way, the performance hit really isn't much at all even with multiple renders. I think it also depends if the engine is built to force a full screen render, or if only parts of a scene can be rendered to save workload. What renders in the mirrors could be done with less lighting/post processing, like most racing games do. My question was more directed towards people who were suggesting the full scene be completely re-rendered, which would require 2-3 times as much horsepower Yup. Most racing games will render a lower quality with less advanced lighting and shaders so it is not really much of a performance hit at all and still very functional. They also save performance by reducing how often the reflection is rendered. If you look at ARMA 3 for example, the low quality PiP will look worse and anything going on is not as smooth but still very much functional. I think the kind of PiP they are talking about does not have to do with reflections or mirrors, rather shooters like Insurgency where two or more of the same scene are being rendered at once from different magnifications for realism. Most of the shooters that use that are typically games that are not graphic intensive at all so it is harmless. Edited January 9, 2015 by grimoire2008 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1066792003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanBurnsRed Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 People keep saying Arma III this Arma III that, but ETS2 does a pretty good job at mirror reflections, and that game runs like butter in single player and the multiplayer mod. Arma III has sh*t performance regardless of picture in picture quality. If it's possible to have car mirror reflections in GTA V then it'd probably have to be in modded cars using a separate mod like a script or something, but I'd still like the option for all cars even if we can't set the quality level. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Sikee Atric Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 People keep saying Arma III this Arma III that, but ETS2 does a pretty good job at mirror reflections, and that game runs like butter in single player and the multiplayer mod. Arma III has sh*t performance regardless of picture in picture quality. If it's possible to have car mirror reflections in GTA V then it'd probably have to be in modded cars using a separate mod like a script or something, but I'd still like the option for all cars even if we can't set the quality level. However, with ETS2, SCS has admitted the reflections do take significant resources from the main view..... That is why the cabview has a slightly lower frame rate than exterior views. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowls Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 ArmA 3 was terrible for me on AMD, however after i switched over to Intel it's running like an absolute beauty. 80fps and 50fps in car with ultra. (including max PiP.) Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiiLee Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 i think that in the batch of screenshots we got with recent previews someone pointed out that there are reflections on car mirrors, not quite sure Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanBurnsRed Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 However, with ETS2, SCS has admitted the reflections do take significant resources from the main view..... That is why the cabview has a slightly lower frame rate than exterior views. I personally haven't noticed. The framerate is a consistent 60 fps both inside and out. The one thing I have noticed about the mirrors are that they are lower quality than you'd find in Arma III and shadows are not rendered in them. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antaxi Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) ArmA 3 was terrible for me on AMD, however after i switched over to Intel it's running like an absolute beauty. 80fps and 50fps in car with ultra. (including max PiP.) i don't know i play ARma 3 (sp) every day and it run very well on max settings in 1080p but 2x AA on my actual pc configuration core2 duo-2,4 6gb ram (phys) gtx 660 32 bit win 7 Edited April 10, 2015 by Antaxi Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswellboxer Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 ArmA 3 was terrible for me on AMD, however after i switched over to Intel it's running like an absolute beauty. 80fps and 50fps in car with ultra. (including max PiP.) ArmA 3 is really wierd, i have 60fps on ultra playing normally then it dips down to like 25 when im in the same area. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_MK_ Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Confirmed Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdgl Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 it wont happen soon doing that is extremelly demanding Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanBurnsRed Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 ^ Lmao what the hell is that? You call that a reflection? THIS is a mirror reflection. That just looks like the current mirrors in the PS4 and Xbox One versions. If you took that from a PC screenshot or something that confirms there are no real mirror reflections in the PC version Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/760176-pip-mirrors-reflections/#findComment-1067284376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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