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BRITLAND

UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

ilovebender.com

Well, to get a footprint into North America, I picture an LLC, but, to do what?

To acquire / source stock for the parent company that's the LTD; then I'd have to register for ? VAT in the UK...

? because of Brexit, it's too much up in the air for me meaning, I don't want to act upon it until Brexit's done until someone can tell me who if anyone's giving me what deal to sell what in the UK. I also want to have a footprint in the EU and see how opening up shop to get chocolate goes; even if I'm selling chocolate in the market to cover my rental if I can get a van and a market stall. As long as it's legit/legal, it's fine with me.

Having a company does have its opportunities, and I'm a fan of the melting pot country that I'm from in my bubble; selling things from all over the world, now that would be cool. I want to turn a niche market into a new norm and sell as much Dutch chocolate sprinkles and Chocomel I can if we get EU access. 

As for America... guitars and cars basically; a.k.a fancy things/high end money tied up in something I know a buyer for if someone wants a certain guitar a rock star had, I can clone it basically with a bit of shopping and give you a close match/copy where your budget's the limit; so perhaps a more personal service to streamline things. Selling the American dream of cool cars cool guitars to the British, hmmm...

Edited by ilovebender.com

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sivispacem
4 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well, to get a footprint into North America, I picture an LLC, but, to do what?

To acquire / source stock for the parent company that's the LTD; then I'd have to register for ? VAT in the UK...

Unless your buying stuff that's under ITAR or other regulatory protection which require a US-resident corporate presence (and often US citizens), this doesn't strike me as a very efficient way of doing things.

Plenty of UK domicile import companies for things like US cars that do just fine without a US corporate presence. I say "just fine", they're a pretty niche thing. Turns out there isn't that big a market for US cars in the UK, especially once you add on import duty, VAT, and the cost of shipping them over.

There's also the fact that very few industries require quite the same amount of initial capital as import/export, especially as a total unknown with no extant market base or connections for either sourcing or sale.

 

It's a fun little daydream though, I suppose.

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ilovebender.com

UK vows to diverge from EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51161808

 

 

 

Also, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-immigration-boris-johnson-limit-restrict-low-skilled-workers-transition-period-a9290921.html

UK announces plans to reform it's immigration sooner than expected; opting for an Australian points based system;

Mr Johnson unveiled long-awaited details of his plans for an “Australian-style points system” days before his election victory.

Under the three-tier system, “highly-skilled” workers would be fast-tracked with a second tier for “skilled workers” who can enter the UK for a job offer. The third group of low-skilled workers would only be able to stay if there were staff shortages.

 

 

Brexit's all about ending free movement with the EU, meaning unskilled uneducated ex-convicts from the EU would no longer be able to freely reside in the UK given post Brexit immigration policy.

The EU seems to be fighting to keep the 4 freedom post Brexit, so that's going hamper striking a deal; since the EU seems to think Brexit can mean business as usual? The answer is no; no freedom of movement, UK's no longer EU.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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sivispacem
56 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Brexit's all about ending free movement with the EU, meaning unskilled uneducated ex-convicts from the EU would no longer be able to freely reside in the UK 

I mean they often already weren't, but nice job of totally missing the crux of that piece.

 

It's not about future post Brexit immigration, it's about the rights of Europeans already resident within the UK to remain. I'm not really surprised the EU is concerned given the Windrush debacle, and the government and immigration authorities are putting out completely conflicting information on multiple aspects of the process which is frankly shambolic.

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ilovebender.com
36 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

I mean they often already weren't, but nice job of totally missing the crux of that piece.

 

It's not about future post Brexit immigration, it's about the rights of Europeans already resident within the UK to remain...

If they haven't settled yet, then deport them. - What's the problem with that? They'd have missed the cut off point if they haven't settled yet and UK's ending freedom of movement for EU citizens.

However, it's not about that, it's about post-Brexit immigration.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7904855/Low-skilled-EU-migrants-face-tough-new-rules-start-2021.html

That's the crux of the story, seems you've missed the point of the Brexit immigration proposals.

 

The NHS employ people from all over the world, not just the EU, so EU citizens looking to work in the NHS would have to compete with people from the Philippines since Filipinos don't have this automatic right, why should the EU in a post Brexit/out of the EU UK? How does guaranteeing EU citizens rights to live and work in the UK fit into Brexit/leaving the EU?

 

Edited by ilovebender.com

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sivispacem
9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

If they haven't settled yet, then deport them

They are settled and resident- the issue is that the information and advice provided by government and immigration officials has been contradictory and, in light of Windrush, many citizens are concerned about printout copies of documentation not being considered valid and therefore being in a situation 10 or 20 years down the line where their leave to remain is questioned, for whatever reason they're not on whatever terrible government computer system is in place, and they're arbitrarily deported despite having right to remain. Which I think is an entirely fair and reasonable concern given that exactly this has happened very recently.

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

However, it's not about that, it's about post-Brexit immigration.

Try watching the video- it's nothing to do with post-Brexit immigration, it's about the rights of EU citizens resident/settled within the UK.

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

The NHS employ people from all over the world, not just the EU

However EU citizens represent the largest proportion of non-British NHS employees.

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

why should the EU in a post Brexit/out of the EU UK?

Well the main factor of consideration is that European medical qualifications are aligned with those of the UK, and therefore there's a commonality of standards between the UK and bloc.

The same isn't true of other nations, where the levels of qualification required to perform different roles (and the stringence of those qualifications) varies drastically.

Costs associated with evaluation and upskilling of non-EU medical staff are higher than those of domestic or EU staff, so it ends up taking money out of frontline services.

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Uncle Sikee Atric
11 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Costs associated with evaluation and upskilling of non-EU medical staff are higher than those of domestic or EU staff, so it ends up taking money out of frontline services.

Let's not forget the actual pressures being placed on the NHS, and the fact this cuts both ways.

There's already a large amount of UK Ex-Pats (which are fancy-named immigrants into the EU) now very concerned that they'll have to return to the UK, because there's now no guarantee their NHS health protections will be valid within the EU.  So that's another potential influx of pressures onto a service which is already strained to breaking point by a lack of personnel and public funding, given the age of a lot of these individuals. 

Trying to replace staff within a service unable to guarantee those staff their protections is a very risky gamble, especially in an atmosphere where those recruits could potentially be treated as second class citizens without UK Passports.  There's not much appeal for any immigrants to apply for NHS roles right now, so the service could easily collapse shortly, no matter what steps are promised.

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ilovebender.com
9 hours ago, sivispacem said:

 

Costs associated with evaluation and upskilling of non-EU medical staff are higher than those of domestic or EU staff, so it ends up taking money out of frontline services.

This is racist b/s.

Those from the Caribbean or Asia or Africa or North America work the same jobs.

The NHS has huge proportions of workers from outside the EU too.

 

In the NHS, Hell, in my blue collar gig economy agency job, I've worked with people from all over, from Africa to the EU to the US to the Asian subcontinent to Latin America; fact; I was working in London and this Spanish man kept on asking for language help since he didn't speak good English; I was on that job with someone who I got friendly with because we both happened to have connections to the same county in New Jersey.

I've worked with many competent people, from the EU and not from the EU; you need to accept that if it wasn't for non EU migrants, things wouldn't get built and services wouldn't happen, even more than someone from the EU if that person from the EU is still learning the language.

Stop pretending that the EU = the world and I know this doesn't fit with your pro EU agenda, but, for every person living and working in the UK from elsewhere in the EU, there's probably someone if not more from outside the EU/the rest of the world living and working here too; but it seems people forget that the EU isn't the world or just don't get to meet too many foreign people or something so they watch the news talking about EU migrants in this Brexit and assume that that's all there is.

Nothing wrong with treating the EU like everybody else. I'm sure they'd still work here since non EU migrants are doing it all the time.

 

Edited by ilovebender.com

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ilovebender.com

UK/British 1,021,257   Spanish 5,899 Indian 21,207   Romanian 4,451 Filipino 18,584   Zimbabwean 4,049 Irish 13,320   Pakistani 3,975 Polish 9,272   Greek 3,194 Portuguese 7,178   Ghanaian 2,570 Nigerian 6,770   German 2,427 Italian 6,396   Malaysian 2,298

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7783

 

 

The EU isn't the world, how racist and thick do you have to be to accuse non EU migrants as not being as cost effective and easy to train as EU migrants? EU migrants can come here and get some work before even learning English; so decent people working with them just help them out with their language barrier.

Next time you want to talk about work in this country done by new comers to the country, remember those from the rest of the world as well; it might have been Brexit in the media for the past 3 years leaving our non EU migrants out like they didn't exist (the news doesn't talk about them because they talk about Brexit and Brexit doesn't apply to them, but that doesn't mean they're not still there) remember them too.

It's not just EU migrants, even if they're the only ones in the news.

 

Stop forgetting about the world thinking the EU is the world, because it's not. It's not even where all our migration comes from.

 

10 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:


There's already a large amount of UK Ex-Pats (which are fancy-named immigrants into the EU) 

Or USA. Britsh Ex-Pats to me is a fancy way of saying someone who moved to America.

 

I have ex pats in my family, looks like they went further than your family? How is UK Ex-Pat fancy for someone living in the EU?

Have you not heard of the rest of the world?

You certainly are quick to talk nonsense about non EU migrants, about how they cost more to upskill or some backwards b/s that neglects things like Filipinos learning this stuff in the Philippines at no cost to the NHS at all. Same with NHS workers from around the world. The NHS doesn't have to spend any more money to up skill them than they would an EU migrant.

 

Least someone from the Philippines can't come to the UK without an education and work at the local car wash, EU migrants can. If they tried to come to the UK from outside the EU and said they wanted to move here to work the car wash, they'd get asked 'can't you do this work here? (The country they're standing in in some British embassy handing out UK visas).

 

Post Brexit we'd be able to ask this of people from the EU so they too wouldn't be able to come here without an education looking to work the car wash.

What's wrong with treating EU citizens like everyone else for a change?

 

10 hours ago, sivispacem said:

 

 

Try watching the video- it's nothing to do with post-Brexit immigration, it's about the rights of EU citizens resident/settled within the UK.

That's not what Ann Widdecombe British MEP said when she educated the EU Parliament about what Brexit was about. MEPs from other countries were going on and on about protecting these rights until Ann Widdecombe spoke up telling the EU Parliament ending it was a massive factor people voted for Brexit. Try working out who's more qualified than who in the EU Parliament when it comes to this matter.

Here's that video again, in case you missed what the British MEP said to the EU Parliament.

 

It was Boris Johnson, the UK PM (someone else more qualified to talk about Brexit than an MEP from another EU country, since he is the head of the government here) who spoke on post Brexit immigration plans for this country.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-immigration-boris-johnson-limit-restrict-low-skilled-workers-transition-period-a9290921.html

Edited by ilovebender.com

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sivispacem

First things first; if you continue to double and triple post without editing your initial responses, I will ban you. It's really just laziness on your part.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

how racist and thick do you have to be to accuse non EU migrants as not being as cost effective and easy to train as EU migrants? 

It's not racist; it's basic fact. Not only do EU countries and the UK currently have alignment on matters of qualification, there are also interconnectivities between European health services that enable the sharing of data on employees. 

 

Nowhere did I say that non-EU nationals are less cost effective for the NHS, I simply said that under the current system the costs of recruiting and evaluating them are lower; this is empirical fact. The indirect costs are also lower, because less time is required to evaluate prospective employees.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

Stop forgetting about the world thinking the EU is the world

Have you got anything coherent to say on the subject or are you just going to continue accusing people of racism, totally missing the point and posting statistics that back up other people's arguments in the false belief they support yours?

 

At this point hoping for a coherent response from you is like praying for a miracle, and yet for some reason I'm still here brushing off idiotic accusations.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

The NHS doesn't have to spend any more money to up skill them than they would an EU migrant.

That's not what the NHS says. In fact they specifically demand a surcharge of, if I recall correctly , £940, to at least partially cover the difference in costs.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

That's not what Ann Widdecombe British MEP said

Ann Widdecombe missed the point as much as you did; she was an awful minister, is a terrible MEP and a barely functional human being. When I responded I absolutely knew you'd cite her contribution even though it was absolutely worthless in the wider context of that video.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

Least someone from the Philippines can't come to the UK without an education and work at the local car wash

They absolutely cam, and do- albeit not legally. I would much rather have legally resident workers doing low paid jobs voluntarily than literally slaves run by gangmasters, wouldn't you?

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Uncle Sikee Atric

You're also missing the, 'rather obvious' point that the NHS isn't exactly fully manned.

 

At the last count (a few months ago), the NHS was about 106,000 posts short, of which about 44,000 are general nursing positions.  Now that's great for employment opportunities, but the Tories abolished the nursing bursary scheme in 2014, meaning trainee nurses of UK origin rack up sizable debts before they're even qualified.  (They'd rack up debts anyway, but the bursary did give them some support for entering such a high stress position.)  Take up of new people wanting to train as nurses has crashed in recent years as a result.

 

Meanwhile, you're trying to recruit staff from overseas, into a nation where, let's say, having a foreign accent, or a funny skin colour, doesn't appeal to the population you're living and working around.  No amount of cash incentives or bribes will attract anyone if they're forced to live looking over their shoulder day to day.

 

We've already had confirmed accounts of overseas Staff being racially abused, the worst case was a Spanish A&E Consultant, she saved the life of an 8 year old girl after she was knocked down, including restarting her heart twice in resus.  Half an hour later the father appeared and told another staff member he didn't want that 'foreign bitch,' near his daughter, 'when is she going home,' he asked?  Totally oblivious to what she had been doing less than an hour earlier.... 

In that sort of atmosphere and the fact it's well known across the world how bad it is, how the hell do you propose to bring the NHS up to a point where it might be able to manage and be correctly staffed?

This is why your argument is to be treated with the utter contempt it deserves.

 

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ilovebender.com
2 hours ago, sivispacem said:

It's not racist; it's basic fact. Not only do EU countries and the UK currently have alignment on matters of qualification, there are also interconnectivities between European health services that enable the sharing of data on employees. s, wouldn't you?

Countries from around the world have this; from Bulgaria in the EU to the United States and Philippines outside of the EU. Ireland, France, Jamaica, Cuba, Hong Kong, Australia etc... All have equivalencies with the UK like these countries have for people from around too world too, including the UK.

2 hours ago, sivispacem said:

They absolutely cam, and do- albeit not legally. I would much rather have legally resident workers doing low paid jobs voluntarily than literally slaves run by gangmasters, wouldn't you?

Well, illegals from, the case of this video, Bangladesh - are hoping Brexit will free up room for them so they can take the place of some EU migrant as well; I mean, they're wrong imo because locals i.e British citizens/residents/those with leave in the UK, should be able to find unskilled work in the UK. Unskilled migration takes unskilled jobs from locals. We should stop unskilled migration; little lone uncapped unskilled migration from countries who have lower labour costs that our EU membership attracts with impunity.

Illegals are banking on Brexit getting rid of EU migrants in a hope that they can take their place; however; if we hired them for unskilled work, it'll still be taking a job away from a local now wouldn't it.

 

That said, if we had freedom of movement with Australia or the US, at least they'd probably speak English and wouldn't see a massive pay increase for doing unskilled work in the UK than in the US or Australia so I'm all for freedom of movement from the US or Australia, over the EU, since countries in the EU tend to have lower standards of living and less pay meaning they can earn a lot more in the UK doing the same job than in their own countries of origins; it is dumb and why the EU is an economic basket case to have such different economies share a labour market and in most cases, a single currency, it's stupid.

Freedom of movement for countries with identical living standards, please.

 

I would edit quotes into a post after posting, if it was possible, but since you cannot copy a quote, if I quote it and it doesn't automatically merge, then that's not my fault now is it, given you can't copy a quote to quote and edit that quote into a post now can you.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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sivispacem
1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

All have equivalencies with the UK like these countries have 

Actually, they don't.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

I mean, they're wrong imo because locals i.e British citizens/residents/those with leave in the UK, should be able to find unskilled work in the UK.

What you seemingly fail to grasp is the fact that a deficit of available domestic labour is exactly why foreign migrants end up performing unskilled roles. Blocking immigration of unskilled workers doesn't magically summon half a million UK citizens who want to fill those roles into existence.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

Unskilled migration takes unskilled jobs from locals.

This isn't actually true, though. Even unskilled immigration is a net job creator and every peer-reviewed academic study looking at displacement of domestic workers by immigrant labour found no evidence of its existence. It's a myth.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

since countries in the EU tend to have lower standards of living and less pay 

Ten of the EU27 have a PPP GDP per capita higher than that of the UK. The average PPP GDP per capita across the whole EU27 ($43,737) is basically identical to that of the UK ($45,705)

 

So, yet again, you're wrong.

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

I would edit quotes into a post after posting, if it was possible, but since you cannot copy a quote

It is possible, and you absolutely can.

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Clem Fandango

As someone from Australia, I can tell you that everything you say about Britain's potential relationships with non-EU countries is wrong. First of all, as I've pointed out before, do you have any idea how far away Australia is? Secondly nobody would move to Britain to be a nurse, as they would be taking a substantial paycut. Thirdly, like you point out you can already just up and move to Britain and work as a nurse, so how is that a solution to leaving the EU creating massive staff shortages?

 

The EU is right next to Britain, so shipping costs much less, so trade is easier. Britain already has standardisation and agreements with the EU, so trading is easier. How are you not getting this? What reasons have you even given for doing this, why do you care so much if you sh*t is made in France or America? You aren't bothered by products from America being inferior and carrying massive shipping costs that would no doubt be passed onto the consumer (and are probably just unaware that with that much intercontinental shipping freight ships would cook the Earth) but what is the actual advantage to trading with non-EU countries? Is just a revanchist thing?

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Uncle Sikee Atric

Let's not also forget that this entire situation has nothing to do with anyone else.

 

All this uncertainty and insecurity discussed recently, is all caused by Tory bravado.  Based on hollow promises and empty words, shouted by a Government that still don't know what they're going to win for their population.  You cannot blame the EU, Labour, Remainers, the US, or anyone else either, because the only voices heard these last few weeks are those from around the Blonde Boy Blunder, with his Commons majority (and the Tories that still lost in the Lords after they demanded all settled EU citizens be given hard copy proof, to stop another Windrush in the coming years).

 

So right now I'm grabbing the popcorn and putting my feet up for a little bit to wait out the storm.  Because now the Tories can only turn on one other group in their Brexit Blame Game, themselves, and they're going to savage each other as the Brexit prizes start to really roll out.

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Smith John
7 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

So right now I'm grabbing the popcorn and putting my feet up for a little bit to wait out the storm.  Because now the Tories can only turn on one other group in their Brexit Blame Game, themselves, and they're going to savage each other as the Brexit prizes start to really roll out.

Im getting a not-so-strange sense of Déjà vu right now. To be fair, I've been experiencing this sense for a few years now.

 

In other matters: that monumental BBC bellend, Simon McCoy's cringy attempts at banter during his 3 hour afternoon slot is bloody embarrassing. The self-unawareness of these stuck-up, bubble-bound...... ach, I've run out of insults to describe these twats... is impenetrable. Their salaries will of course keep up the NPC talking heads moving though.

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sivispacem

So today at Davos, Sajid Javid had confirmed that the UK is seeking a preferential trade deal with the EU over one with the US, and that despite protestations and threats from the US government will be pushing forward with the planned tax on US tech companies operating within the UK, unilaterally it seems.

 

It's been a week of entirely contradictory messages from the UK government who seem incapable on deciding on any trade policy at all- let alone a coherent one- for longer than about 24 hours.

 

Talk about a shambles.

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ilovebender.com

If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em eh? That's you're whole adage in debate here.

Quote

Ann Widdecombe missed the point as much as you did; she was an awful minister, is a terrible MEP and a barely functional human being. When I responded I absolutely knew you'd cite her contribution even though it was absolutely worthless in the wider context of that video

It is you @sivispacem who is an arrogant Remainer and a terrible Moderator and barely a functional debater. You accuse Ann Widdecombe of missing what some German or Belgian MEPs ideas on Brexit Britain should be... (They're not even British, what could they even know about Brexit)? Especially since their ideas are to protect EU Citizens Rights the EU's freedom of movement in (what will be) an non EU country!

 

Ann Widdencombe made the valid point in the EU Parliament about Brexit being about ending freedom of movement to an EU still living in the past thinking that EU rules should still somehow apply to the UK once the UK is out of the EU; That's not Brexit! That's Brexit in name only, that's not Brexit, that's a terrible idea. The EU miss the point of Brexit as much as you. About your rant on Ann Widdecombe though lol, don't you even forget the difference between you and Ann Widdecombe is that; No one elected you to speak for them; you're a pathetic, delusions of grandeur, know nothing Remainer who hasn't been elected to represent nobody. Unlike you, Ann Widdecombe was elected to stand up and speak and say what she said in the EU Parliament - in short, you're no Ann Widdecombe - You're a terrible Mod' on an Anglo-American video game's forum who missed the point of Brexit as much as some Belgian or German MEP in the EU Parliament trying to protect EU Citizens rights in what will soon be a non EU country.

 

It's like trying to protect EU Citizens rights in USA or China, what rights should an EU Citizen have in the UK once we're no longer an EU country? That's the point the EU Parliament have a hard time of understanding. UK will be no more EU than USA or China, in short, UK will become a Third Party country, so therefore, EU Citizens should have to comply with British immigration if they want to live in the UK post Brexit - that, was a huge factor of Brexit, don't even pretend how saying that is missing the point when the point is, Britain's leaving the EU.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Uncle Sikee Atric
30 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em eh? That's you're whole adage in debate here.

It is you @sivispacem who is an arrogant Remainer and a terrible Moderator and barely a functional debater. You accuse Ann Widdecombe of missing a point some German or Belgian MEPs were making about their ideas on Brexit Britain. Ann Widdencombe made the valid point in the EU Parliament about Brexit being about ending freedom of movement to an EU still living in the past thinking that EU rules should still somehow apply to Brexit Britain; That's not Brexit! That's Brexit in name only, that's not Brexit, that's a terrible idea.

The EU miss the point of Brexit as much as you. About your rant on Ann Widdecombe though lol, don't you even forget the difference between you and Ann Widdecombe; No one elected you to speak for them; you're a pathetic, delusions of grandeur, know nothing Remainer who hasn't been elected to represent nobody, Ann Widdecombe can stand up and speak and say what she said in the EU Parliament because, unlike you, she was elected to speak by somebody - in short, you're no Ann Widdecombe - You're a terrible Mod' on an Anglo-American video game's forum who missed the point of Brexit as much as some Belgian or German MEP in the EU Parliament trying to protect EU Citizens rights in what will soon be a non EU country.

 

It's like trying to protect EU Citizens rights in USA or China, what rights should an EU Citizen have in the UK once we're no longer an EU country? That's the point the EU Parliament have a hard time of understanding. UK will be no more EU than USA or China, in short, UK will become a Third Party country, so therefore, EU Citizens should have to comply with British immigration if they want to live in the UK post Brexit - that, was a huge factor of Brexit, don't even pretend how saying that is missing the point when the point is, Britain's leaving the EU.

*Coughs* Human Rights....

 

The UK is setting itself up for another Windrush by noticing the Tories ignored the Lords request to supply all settled EU migrants, hard copies of all their settlement documents.  Without those, they'll have zero proof of their status within the UK, no matter how long they've been resident.  They'll be reliant on others for their proof, bosses, family, friends, because they'll have to vouch for another person being allowed to live within the UK.  Great step there!

 

Besides, it's now the Brexiters are waking up to what they've won and they're suddenly not happy :

https://www.iq-mag.net/2020/01/uk-culture-minister-free-movement-essential-for-artists/#.XiqglnLgqnU

 

The Bexiter Culture Minister, Nigel Adams, has demanded free movement be retained for artists and musical performers.  Well guess what?  He's only getting that if everyone has it, so BRINO is starting to look like a psosible outcome, because now they're starting to notice some drawbacks to Brexit, at last....

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ilovebender.com
2 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

*Coughs* Human Rights....

 

The UK is setting itself up for another Windrush by noticing the Tories ignored the Lords request to supply all settled EU migrants, hard copies of all their settlement documents.  Without those, they'll have zero proof of their status within the UK, no matter how long they've been resident.  They'll be reliant on others for their proof, bosses, family, friends, because they'll have to vouch for another person being allowed to live within the UK.  Great step there!

 

Besides, it's now the Brexiters are waking up to what they've won and they're suddenly not happy :

https://www.iq-mag.net/2020/01/uk-culture-minister-free-movement-essential-for-artists/#.XiqglnLgqnU

 

The Bexiter Culture Minister, Nigel Adams, has demanded free movement be retained for artists and musical performers.  Well guess what?  He's only getting that if everyone has it, so BRINO is starting to look like a psosible outcome, because now they're starting to notice some drawbacks to Brexit, at last....

The Windrush was the name of a ship.

Stop trying to sully the good name Windrush, and also, get with the programme, Brexit means not being in the EU so why should EU rules still apply to a non EU country just because a bunch of MEPs elected by foreign countries say so in speeches in the EU?

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Uncle Sikee Atric
14 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

The Windrush was the name of a ship.

Stop trying to sully the good name Windrush, and also, get with the programme, Brexit means not being in the EU so why should EU rules still apply to a non EU country just because a bunch of MEPs elected by foreign countries say so in speeches in the EU?

MEP's will only agree to the allow the Brexit deal pass them in the few days, if the needs of EU citizens (non-UK residents) are being met within the UK!  Part of the reason the Lords backed the idea of paperwork for EU citizens was to help that situation within the EU Chambers, because no paperwork means a person has little proof of their residency within the UK if Border Force comes-a-calling.

Exactly the same situation that caused the Windrush migrants to be sent home in that Tory scandal a few years ago....

 

If MEP's think the same could happen again in the UK, they'll block the bill when they vote on the 28th, that means another delay Bucko!

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4 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

...

 

If MEP's think the same could happen again in the UK, they'll block the bill when they vote on the 28th, that means another delay Bucko!

So we crash out, the Queen signed Brexit into law, EU can only block a deal with the EU, (which is fine by me, clashes with America too much)... But the EU can't block Brexit.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/23/brexit-officially-becomes-law-after-queen-signs-off/

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Uncle Sikee Atric
8 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

So we crash out, the Queen signed Brexit into law, EU can only block a deal with the EU, (which is fine by me, clashes with America too much)... But the EU can't block Brexit.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/23/brexit-officially-becomes-law-after-queen-signs-off/

 

They can, and they will if they feel they have to, to protect the rights of EU citizens and ensure they have the paperwork they deserve.  The UK cannot leave without EU Assent, let alone Royal Assent being signed on this end.

 

Any delay would likely be more than a few weeks, but it could happen, no matter how much an insignificant speck like you kicks, cries and complains on a gaming website....

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41 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

They can, and they will if they feel they have to...

Well, according to the New York Post article I linked, they're not likely to and the vote will pass in the EU without obstruction.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/24/brexit-latest-news-withdrawal-agreement-bill-boris-johnson-labour/

According to the Telegraph 15 minutes ago, the EU's already signed off on Brexit @Uncle Sikee Atric

Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel sign the UK Withdrawal Agreement watched by Michel Barnier

Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel sign the UK Withdrawal Agreement watched by Michel Barnier

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Uncle Sikee Atric
47 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well, according to the New York Post article I linked, they're not likely to and the vote will pass in the EU without obstruction.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/24/brexit-latest-news-withdrawal-agreement-bill-boris-johnson-labour/

According to the Telegraph 15 minutes ago, the EU's already signed off on Brexit @Uncle Sikee Atric

Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel sign the UK Withdrawal Agreement watched by Michel Barnier

Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel sign the UK Withdrawal Agreement watched by Michel Barnier

That's the signing off by the Council, not the final vote by MEP's....  Two different things.

 

That vote is on the 29th and that's the final hurdle,  I'll link this screaming hatred from the Daily sh*tpress, because it's a right-winger rag howling in frustration about an Irish MEP vowing to vote against the Bill.  You might read it as a result, because it's right up your alley!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1228759/brexit-news-EU-latest-Boris-Johnson-brexit-deal-EU-parliament-irish-MEP

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sivispacem
2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em eh? 

I've given you reminders both directly and in thread about double, triple and quadruple posting. You've refused to abide by these and blamed the forum for your abject failure to abide by basic rules.

 

If I wanted to "silence" you, I would ban you for longer than a measly twenty four hours. Given you literally called for my murder previously, it's not like I wouldn't have enough ammunition to justify it.

 

You'd be easily out-debated by a wet paper bag. Your total lack of awareness, right down to arguing with the only person in the thread whose remotely ideologically aligned to you- is frankly hilarious.

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

You accuse Ann Widdecombe of missing what some German or Belgian MEPs ideas on Brexit Britain should be...

No, I accuse her of missing the specific point they're making about the rights of resident EU citizens within the UK, and her conflation of this with freedom of movement. 

 

It's got nothing to do with anyone's idea of "what Brexit should be", it's about not treating EU nationals who have and will retain the right to reside and work within the UK as second class citizens, and ensuring we don't have a repeat of previous abject failures to honour the right of indefinite leave to remain because the Home Office is institutionally incompetent.

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Ann Widdencombe made the valid point in the EU Parliament about Brexit being about ending freedom of movement to an EU still living in the past thinking that EU rules should still somehow apply to the UK once the UK is out of the EU

This might be a valid point if that's what EU figures were talking about, but it's not- so it's totally irrelevant as I've already said. 

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

don't you even forget the difference between you and Ann Widdecombe is that; No one elected you to speak for them

So what? Being an elected representative doesn't magically make you knowledgeable or competent. Most knowledgeable and competent people have little to no interest in running for office because they can earn more, and contribute more by not doing so.

 

Especially in the political circus that is the UK, where intellect and expertise are actively scorned. 

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

It's like trying to protect EU Citizens rights in USA or China

In case you're not aware, preferential rights in terms of access to services, employment, immigration requirements, freedom to purchase property and invest, are all afforded discriminately and selectively to other foreign nationals in both of your examples here.

 

But it's largely irrelevant anyway, as the real crux is ensuring EU citizens within the UK retain rights that are already agreed, which is the primary concern of MEPs in that video.

 

 

 

 

That your continually touting the US despite their recent threats of trade sanctions over technology taxes, their refusal to extradite someone who killed a UK citizen in circumstances which are criminal in both countries...all for a trade deal which would be worth, at best, 0.2% of UK GDP shows an astonishing lack of interest in maintaing UK sovereignty and economic integrity.

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ilovebender.com
1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

 it's about not treating EU nationals who have and will retain the right to reside and work within the UK as second class citizens,

Your point?

In the United Kingdom, the British Nationality Act of 1981 defines an alien as a person who is not a British citizen, a citizen of Ireland, a Commonwealth citizen, or a British protected person. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61

EU Citizens aren't British Citizens and no one in Parliament is working to protect their rights in the UK. If being a second class citizen means they need permission to live and work in the UK, then so be it.

 

 

Quote

But it's largely irrelevant anyway, as the real crux is ensuring EU citizens within the UK retain rights that are already agreed, which is the primary concern of MEPs in that video.

Agreed before Brexit, now they need to get with the program.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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sivispacem
7 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Your point?

What's your point here? Quoting the British Nationality Act at me has literally no relevance to the point I've made.

 

9 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

EU Citizens aren't British Citizens

Point to where I said, or even suggested, they were.

 

9 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

no one in Parliament is working to protect their rights in the UK

I think you'll find this is wrong.

 

10 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

If being a second class citizen means they need permission to live and work in the UK

You should probably invest some time in learning to read.

I imagine it will probably do your future post-Brexit job prospects a world of good.

 

We're talking about ensuring the people who already have permission aren't arbitrarily rounded up and deported because of a Home Office f*ck-up, as happened with Windrush.

That much would be abundantly clear to a) anyone who listened to what the MEPs in that video was saying, and b) anyone who actually read my post.

 

12 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Agreed before Brexit

...No, agreed as part of the Brexit process so far.

 

The government has made a set of assurances regarding the rights of EU citizens residing within the UK after Brexit, in line with what I've described above.

Quite rightly, the EU wants clarity from the government as to the practicalities of how these assurances are implemented. 

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All MEPs were talking about were EU Citizens rights in the UK and British Citizens rights in the EU;

If we have a deal with the EU, then those rights should be protected under any terms of that new deal that's relevant, however, we haven't gotten a deal so EU Citizens should just view the UK as a non EU country like America or China.

What's so difficult to understand ending freedom of movement and deporting EU Citizens post Brexit?

Edited by ilovebender.com

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