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BRITLAND

UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

Uncle Sikee Atric

The impact of this is incredible and if Brexit wasn't already seriously holed below the waterline, now it looks like a fatal hole.

 

How are they gonna dig themselves out of this one? I have no idea if they even can....

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Typhus

The impact of this is incredible and if Brexit wasn't already seriously holed below the waterline, now it looks like a fatal hole.

 

How are they gonna dig themselves out of this one? I have no idea if they even can....

That's easy. They'll just blame the Polish, or the Romanians, or "scroungers" - they've always gotten a lot of use out of that last one. People will figure it's not them getting f*cked over, and Brexit will go ahead on the basis that everyone seeing their standard of living drop is either poor or foreign, so they deserve it.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

Dominic Green with his naughty hard drive and overworked secretary....

 

David 'Dickhead' Davies with his porkies and potential 'contempt of parliament' charges....

 

Boris and Gove, I need to say little more about.....

 

Now Phillip Hammond wants in on the 'Tories that need a kicking' club.

 

Really, disabled people are to blame for low productivity figures in the UK? Uncertainty over Brexit clearly has no part to play in this, along with a weak manufacturing sector as a whole and fall off in investment in the UK?

 

Talk about appealing to voters and hate. Looks like disabled people, the EU and immigrants are to blame for all of the woes of the Tories!

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Uncle Sikee Atric

And what a weekend we have had....

 

First came the 'deal' on Friday, where Eeyore and her cronies finally capitulated to the EU and collapsed into a deal to save their political skins, since then we've had a fairly quiet weekend. Apart from one slimeball speaking out about the bad deal he sees, the rest of the Tories seem to have stopped fighting and accepted their fate. Brexit is screwed, might as well enjoy the ride....

 

But earlier in the week, Dickhead Davies gave an indication of his competency and finally confessed that the 58 impact assessments, didn't in fact exist! He dismissed them as superfluous and replied, "impact assessments like those were generally wrong, once the actual event occurred!" A rather stupid comment, given he said they did exist only a few, scant months ago.

 

Meanwhile, the EU have done his job for him and produced a rather comprehensive set of Impact Assessments of it's own and released them in full to the public, and since the EU tries to be fairly open in it's machinations, the UK got it's own set in English and released online from the London office.

 

These documents seem to be in good detail and not redacted. Really worth a thorough read if you ask me....

Edited by Uncle Sikee Atric

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Uncle Sikee Atric

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Erm, yeah. I think they are.

 

Brexiteers wanted more power for Parliament and these people granted them that wish....

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Typhus

Labour has ruled out a second EU Referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/17/diane-abbott-labour-does-not-support-a-second-eu-referendum

This is a mistake, considering how many Remain voters will likely vote for Labour. Quite why they would try to split their own voter base on this issue is puzzling. This is not the time to be bi-partisan, when the Tories are riddled with internal squabbles and have lost the trust of the electorate.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

Labour has ruled out a second EU Referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/17/diane-abbott-labour-does-not-support-a-second-eu-referendum

This is a mistake, considering how many Remain voters will likely vote for Labour. Quite why they would try to split their own voter base on this issue is puzzling. This is not the time to be bi-partisan, when the Tories are riddled with internal squabbles and have lost the trust of the electorate.

It's obvious why there will be no second referendum under Labour....

 

The latest poll suggest Remain is now as much as 10 points ahead, so actually appealing to popular voter opinion isn't a good idea for Corbyn, simply because if his lot get into power, the fractions among the party faithful would be much more obvious than they are now. The Tories have it bad enough, but the rifts in Labour are continental in scale.

 

It says it all that Brexit is such a colossal disaster, no one thinks they can fix it anymore without irreparable damage to their own party faithful while doing so, even more now that the rebellions have begun in the Commons and the potential final deal seems years further away than ever. In the end the EU will offer a good deal to remain and the parties will be stupid to refuse. They'll end up having a big backslapping session of self-congratulations while accepting it unilaterally, claiming the experiment of Brexit was a success....

 

Pathetic isn't it?

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Dealux

What is up with the hate speech laws in the UK? This is old news, but this guy still stands a chance to go to jail for teaching his dog to do a Nazi salute (as a joke): http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/01/man-who-filmed-dog-doing-nazi-salute-when-he-said-gas-the-jews-denies-committing-hate-crime-6820905/

 

I mean that's a pretty clear cut example of why hate speech laws don't work well in practice. Even though my country is f*cked in many ways I am glad we don't have such stringent laws here.

Edited by Dealux

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sivispacem

I don't think too many rational people shed a tear if people like him get criminalised for stupidity. Better than setting the bar so high prosecuting hate speech becomes impossible.

 

Personally I'd have done him for animal cruelty too.

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Dealux

But where do you draw the line then? If it's so easy to prosecute someone for something that amounts to a stupid joke then who's to say that you could never get arrested for saying the wrong thing, accidentally or not.

 

Also, you have no sense of humor. The joke was actually funny. Remind me again, what about your opinion on this is described as "radically centrist"?

Edited by Dealux

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sivispacem

But where do you draw the line then?

I draw the line at not posting clickbaity bullsh*t laden nonsense from half a year ago as if it was somehow relevant in the wider context of coherent discussion. I can only assume you've recently twigged it off Reddit or one of the million and one other clickbait factories that have rerun the same f*cking story from early August last year.

 

That aside, even if a Pug sieg-heiling to "gas the Jews" were funny once (and that's debatable), twenty-three times in a single short video seems excessive.

 

Worth noting as well that representing this as a "British" thing is probably misleading, given this is an area of legislation where the Scottish devolved assembly has implemented different laws than the rest of the UK.

 

you have no sense of humor.

This might be shocking to you, given you're a delusional narcissist, but humour is subjective.

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Dealux

I draw the line at not posting clickbaity bullsh*t laden nonsense from half a year ago as if it was somehow relevant in the wider context of coherent discussion. I can only assume you've recently twigged it off Reddit or one of the million and one other clickbait factories that have rerun the same f*cking story from early August last year.

 

That aside, even if a Pug sieg-heiling to "gas the Jews" were funny once (and that's debatable), twenty-three times in a single short video seems excessive.

 

Worth noting as well that representing this as a "British" thing is probably misleading, given this is an area of legislation where the Scottish devolved assembly has implemented different laws than the rest of the UK.

 

This might be shocking to you, given you're a delusional narcissist, but humour is subjective.

You've made this assumption before and I actually dislike reddit and never go there. I'm familiar with the story from several sources and I recently heard some
directly from the guy. He's still facing the possibility of going to jail. His trial was postponed several times and he still doesn't know what his fate will be. The line is actually quite simple to draw. Intent plays a big role in deciding whether something is hate speech or not and I would argue that some mild forms of hate speech should be acceptable. I take it you saw the actual video and he does say that the whole thing is a joke to piss off his girlfriend. Where the hell could you draw the conclusion from that whole video that he was actually inciting violence?

 

That's irrelevant. If it's acceptable once then saying it a bunch of times more changes nothing. Perhaps it's less funny then.

 

It took you a while to make an actual good point. Still, the fact that it is possible to go on trial and face the possibility of going to jail for 5 years for a stupid joke says something about the legal system in Scotland.

 

Exactly. It is subjective. Legally speaking, it should have no f*cking relevance whether or not a joke is funny. The only relevant thing is if the speech is specifically designed to incite violence. Also, what about what I said here makes me a narcissist (unless that's your general impression of me, which makes me curious as to why you feel that way)? Do you not see some irony in that? You seem to be more concerned by the nature of this joke than the very real possibility of sending an innocent guy to jail for 5 years. Where are your priorities?

Edited by Dealux

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Tchuck

 

I would argue that some mild forms of hate speech should be acceptable

 

Such as?

 

Also, you seem to not comprehend how normalizing bad sh*t leads to more bad sh*t happening. Any form of Nazi expression in Germany, and many other countries that suffered with the Nazis, is illegal. It will land you in jail, and potentially for a very long time.

 

Not fond of slippery slopes, and I believe this isn't one, but if you normalize these kinds of sh*t, you make it lose its impact. If it loses impact, people tend to forget about the atrocities. If they forget about the atrocities, they rewrite the past. Maybe the Nazis weren't that bad. Maybe they actually did good things. If you think about it, they only wanted what was best for Germany and the Germans. Isn't that what we all want? Aren't we all, deep down, a nazi? Right?

 

No. "As a joke" isn't an excuse. Some things you simply don't joke about, or do it in a more tasteful manner. That much is obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense. Those who don't have such, learn the hard way. Hate speech shouldn't be given any margin to flourish. Not to mention, you don't simply train a dog to something without effort. It takes a ton of effort. This dude put in a ton of effort to get his dog to respond to Nazi garbage. I have zero sympathy for him.

Edited by Tchuck

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Darth Yokel

No. "As a joke" isn't an excuse.

Hate speech laws are a minefield to navigate. It's a tough issue. It's so easy to claim that "it's just a joke bro" as your defense, that it becomes virtually impossible to properly address hate speech in a lot of cases. On the other hand, attempts to regulate it could spiral out of control if it's not done with extra care.

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Uncle Sikee Atric

Who would have thought?

 

Is he serious?

 

EDIT : Done a bit of digging on the subject, and yes he is!

 

I'm a little shocked about his reasoning, but at the same time, I do see his point (although I am loathe to admit it). His claims of 'killing of the Remainers for a generation' is a very dangerous point and those comments could well come back to haunt him in the future. The Remainer response has basically being, 'bring it on.'

 

The odds of a second referendum have already gone down from 10-1 to 7-1 following this one interview and the tweets on Farage's page.

 

I always thought it would end up back at the polls, the original referendum was too close.

 

2ND EDIT :

 

Leave.EU founder Aaron Banks has responded to Nige's comments on their Facebook....

 

 

 

READ | Arron Banks responds to Nigel's call for a second referendum:

 

“Nigel’s decision to call for a second referendum comes after eighteen months of backsliding by a weak, incompetent Prime Minister egged on by her Remain entourage.

“The historic decision taken by the British people on 23 June 2016 was seismic. It was our opportunity to revolutionise our nation and take back control from elites who were leading us down the wrong path. Unfortunately, thanks to David Cameron’s cowardly resignation, the nation was plunged into political chaos and Theresa May has spectacularly failed to take the reins and deliver what the people voted for.

“The vast majority of the country understands that the Brexit vote meant taking back control of our laws, money, trade and borders. The only viable way to do this is to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union. The honeymoon period is over; the Tory party want to leave in name only and not only has Theresa May betrayed the nation by agreeing a sizeable divorce bill but her transition deal up until the next General Election will see open borders remain in place for years to come.

“The government have dragged their heels because they haven’t had the integrity to implement the will of the people. Just because we are continuously told we are leaving does not mean we are doing so!

“If we do not act radically now, we will sleepwalk into a faux Brexit, in name only. True Brexiteers have been backed into a corner and the only option now is to go back to the polls and let the people shout from the rooftops their support of a true Brexit. Let the people denounce plans for greater European integration, the European Army and porous borders which facilitates the free movement of jihadis.

“Leave would win by a landslide. The Tories don’t want to do what the electorate have instructed. Perhaps we need to shout louder.”

Here we go, bring it on!

Edited by Uncle Sikee Atric

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Tchuck

 

No. "As a joke" isn't an excuse.

Hate speech laws are a minefield to navigate. It's a tough issue. It's so easy to claim that "it's just a joke bro" as your defense, that it becomes virtually impossible to properly address hate speech in a lot of cases. On the other hand, attempts to regulate it could spiral out of control if it's not done with extra care.

 

 

Yeah, and it's a sh*tty defense. Like that douchebag dude that sends a text to a girl asking for sex and whatnot, and then when she doesn't react the way he expected, he goes all "I was drunk! I'm sorry!". It's a sh*tty excuse and a sh*tty defense. If this guy had made a simpler joke about the subject, probably nothing would have happened. But he took the time to train a dog to respond to sieg heils and to "gas all Jews". That takes a lot of effort. It's more than just a joke. If it wasn't clear to the dude then, well, now he'll have some time to learn his lesson.

 

 

On Farage:

 

What a bloody coward. He should stick by his guns, die on his own sword, and leave politics. But slimy politicians will be slimy politicians.

Edited by Tchuck

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Dealux

Such as?

 

Also, you seem to not comprehend how normalizing bad sh*t leads to more bad sh*t happening. Any form of Nazi expression in Germany, and many other countries that suffered with the Nazis, is illegal. It will land you in jail, and potentially for a very long time.

 

Not fond of slippery slopes, and I believe this isn't one, but if you normalize these kinds of sh*t, you make it lose its impact. If it loses impact, people tend to forget about the atrocities. If they forget about the atrocities, they rewrite the past. Maybe the Nazis weren't that bad. Maybe they actually did good things. If you think about it, they only wanted what was best for Germany and the Germans. Isn't that what we all want? Aren't we all, deep down, a nazi? Right?

 

No. "As a joke" isn't an excuse. Some things you simply don't joke about, or do it in a more tasteful manner. That much is obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense. Those who don't have such, learn the hard way. Hate speech shouldn't be given any margin to flourish. Not to mention, you don't simply train a dog to something without effort. It takes a ton of effort. This dude put in a ton of effort to get his dog to respond to Nazi garbage. I have zero sympathy for him.

Well, we probably shouldn't arrest 88 year olds for being ignorant idiots because they're very unlikely to be a threat to anyone. Also, I should be allowed to be as racist or bigoted as I want to be within the confines of my own home. As long as I'm not doing it publicly with the intent to incite violence then my right to free speech is more important. Not that I would make such jokes or say racist sh*t but I'm very uncomfortable about convicting people for thought crimes in general.

 

Germany is more concerned about its public image than anything else. Their laws regarding that stuff are way too stringent in my opinion. I mean the Nazi pug joke could have been in an episode of South Park. It really wasn't as bad as people seem to think.

 

But there is a worse price to pay if you convict everyone of hate crimes for making the wrong joke or saying the wrong thing without the actual intent of hurting anyone. Also, I trust people to have better judgement than what you are suggesting.

 

I completely disagree. You have no right to decide what is funny and what is not. You wouldn't want to live in a society where bad jokes weren't allowed.

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Tchuck

 

Well, we probably shouldn't arrest 88 year olds for being ignorant idiots because they're very unlikely to be a threat to anyone.

 

We most absolutely should, specially when it comes to racism and bigotry. Now see what you're doing there? You're removing the weight from their actions and from their thoughts by simply claiming them to be "ignorant idiots". Do you not see what the problem is there? There's ignorant idiots, and then there's racists, and then there's nazi apologist/holocaust denialists. By simply handwaving their actions as "oh it's just some ignorant idiots" you reduce the severity of the sh*t they did and the things they think. And that's why we got into this whole mess with the new nazis.

 

 

Also, I should be allowed to be as racist or bigoted as I want to be within the confines of my own home.

 

You are. Once you step out in public, though, you'll pay the price. Which is what this doucheturd did. If he had made his stupid video, shown it to his gf, would be just that. But he had to broadcast it to the world, influence others, make light of such a heavy subject. That's when he done f*cked up.

 

 

As long as I'm not doing it publicly with the intent to incite violence then my right to free speech is more important.

 

And you have your free speech. Hate speech is not free speech, and it shouldn't be. Hate speech should be condemned and abhorred.

 

 

Germany is more concerned about its public image than anything else. Their laws regarding that stuff are way too stringent in my opinion. I mean the Nazi pug joke could have been in an episode of South Park. It really wasn't as bad as people seem to think.

 

I think they are perfectly fine. Dumbass tourists get a slap on the wrist/some time in jail, actual nazis get to stay in jail for a lot longer. What do you suggest instead?

And yeah, the Nazi pug joke could have been in an episode of South Park, and no-one would bat an eye. You know why? Because it would be fiction, and it would fit the context, and wouldn't require training another living being to do something so stupid. It was pretty terrible and tasteless. Who are you to say it wasn't as bad? People affected by the holocaust thought it was terrible and the guy deserved it. They have more of a ground to stand on this matter than you or I.

 

 

But there is a worse price to pay if you convict everyone of hate crimes for making the wrong joke or saying the wrong thing without the actual intent of hurting anyone. Also, I trust people to have better judgement than what you are suggesting.

 

Then you are a very trusting individual, because plenty of people are sh*ts. This is similar to not condemning that jock rapist because "oh he has such a bright future ahead! he was always a nice kid!". This week I read the story of a girl who got a jock kicked out of his team/school for pulling up her skirt and exposing her to the rest of the group at a party. He was laughing. She wasn't. She got pissed off. People told her to chill, after all, it was just a joke. She didn't see it that way, went to the authorities and reported his ass. According to you, she should have just let it go, because it was a joke, he didn't intend to hurt anyone, he just wanted some laughs. All fair, right?

 

 

I completely disagree. You have no right to decide what is funny and what is not. You wouldn't want to live in a society where bad jokes weren't allowed.

 

I know what's funny to me, and what isn't. I also have enough empathy to know what can be completely offensive to some people. This guy didn't, some people got very offended, now he's paying for it.

Edited by Tchuck

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Dealux

We most absolutely should, specially when it comes to racism and bigotry. Now see what you're doing there? You're removing the weight from their actions and from their thoughts by simply claiming them to be "ignorant idiots". Do you not see what the problem is there? There's ignorant idiots, and then there's racists, and then there's nazi apologist/holocaust denialists. By simply handwaving their actions as "oh it's just some ignorant idiots" you reduce the severity of the sh*t they did and the things they think. And that's why we got into this whole mess with the new nazis.

 

But he had to broadcast it to the world, influence others, make light of such a heavy subject. That's when he done f*cked up.

 

And you have your free speech. Hate speech is not free speech, and it shouldn't be. Hate speech should be condemned and abhorred.

 

People affected by the holocaust thought it was terrible and the guy deserved it. They have more of a ground to stand on this matter than you or I.

 

 

This is similar to not condemning that jock rapist because "oh he has such a bright future ahead! he was always a nice kid!". This week I read the story of a girl who got a jock kicked out of his team/school for pulling up her skirt and exposing her to the rest of the group at a party. He was laughing. She wasn't. She got pissed off. People told her to chill, after all, it was just a joke. She didn't see it that way, went to the authorities and reported his ass. According to you, she should have just let it go, because it was a joke, he didn't intend to hurt anyone, he just wanted some laughs. All fair, right?

 

I know what's funny to me, and what isn't. I also have enough empathy to know what can be completely offensive to some people. This guy didn't, some people got very offended, now he's paying for it.

An 88 year old woman is not a threat to anyone. Yes, she is simply an idiot but I doubt her words would have any impact whatsoever.

 

That logic is bullsh*t. You need more than mere words to establish that someone caused something to happen. I mean if you said something online like "people who eat meat should kill themselves" and someone suffering from depression or mental illness saw that and actually decided to kill themselves, I don't think you should go to jail for that even though there is a causal link there. Policing what people think or say publicly to an extreme will result in a severely unstable society.

 

Right. Let's jail anyone who has ever said anything negative about fat people too. Or short people. Or anything that could be regarded offensive to anyone. f*ck off with that sh*t.

 

Assuming that's what got him into trouble, which is false from what I can gather. Also, you seem to assume that being Jewish or having some relation to the holocaust automatically means that you find any joke regarding Nazis offensive, which is not the case. And the joke itself wasn't poking fun at Jews or holocaust victims.

 

Apples and oranges. You're comparing what sounds like sexual assault to a guy making a joke that was targeting no one. If you actually think that intent or context has no relevance whatsoever then I bet I could dig up stuff from your past that would send you to jail, by your own logic. Don't tell me that you've never made an offensive remark or joke.

 

Everything is offensive. Empathy is irrelevant unless you're telling me that whenever you read or make a joke you think about the people that might be offended by it which kinda removes the possibility of saying any kind of joke.

Edited by Dealux

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Tchuck

 

An 88 year old woman is not a threat to anyone. Yes, she is simply an idiot but I doubt her words would have any impact whatsoever.

 

Again, you are downplaying the significance of her statement. She isn't simply an idiot. She's a disgusting person who denies that the holocaust ever happened, was vocal about it. sh*t, from the link you yourself linked (which I doubt you read)

 

 

The right-wing activist is also set to face a courtroom once again in Detmold, a town in the west of the country, on November 23, appealing two guilty verdicts of incitement to hatred because of a letter she wrote to the town’s head of government and journalists, questioning the systematic slaughter of Jews between 1941 and 1945.

In 2008, authorities banned the right-wing education center Collegium Humanum that Haverbeck set up with her late husband, Werner Georg Haverbeck, who had been active in Hitler’s Nazi party leading up to and during World War II.

 

So she isn't simply an idiot, like you say. Nor is she harmless. She founded a nazist education center, spreading misinformation and other propaganda, with her husband who was actually a Nazi.

And you are calling her "simply an idiot". So Nazis were just "simply idiots" who "had a difference in opinion" then? f*ck off.

 

 

That logic is bullsh*t. You need more than mere words to establish that someone caused something to happen. I mean if you said something online like "people who eat meat should kill themselves" and someone suffering from depression or mental illness saw that and actually decided to kill themselves, I don't think you should go to jail for that even though there is a causal link there. Policing what people think or say publicly to an extreme will result in a severely unstable society.

 

That's a horrible scarecrow of a comparison. No-one is policing anyone's thoughts or voices, let alone to an extreme. You have one dude who did something terrible and reprehensible, and society deemed as worthy of a prison sentence. Great. You can be free to make your racist remarks as much as you want to your peers. They won't prosecute you for it. Make the same remarks to someone who may get offended, and sh*t, you're f*cked. Just as you should be. Wanna be a racist piece of sh*t? Do so at the privacy of your own home. Spread out in public, and there will be a reaction. You are free to say whatever you want. But there may be repercussions.

 

 

Right. Let's jail anyone who has ever said anything negative about fat people too. Or short people. Or anything that could be regarded offensive to anyone. f*ck off with that sh*t.

 

Way to address something I didn't say. Being racist is against the law, as is being bigoted. You wanna be a douchebag to a fat person? Do so. That person is also free to react in whatever way they see fit. Isn't that what you types are always preaching? Let people handle it? Well someone gets offended, thinks he can sue you, and does, there you go. Again, you are FREE TO SAY AND DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. Other people are also free to try and take action based on what you are saying and doing.

 

 

Assuming that's what got him into trouble, which is false from what I can gather. Also, you seem to assume that being Jewish or having some relation to the holocaust automatically means that you find any joke regarding Nazis offensive, which is not the case. And the joke itself wasn't poking fun at Jews or holocaust victims.

 

Here's why he got into trouble. And no, I don't assume that. Stop imagining things. I'm saying that as someone who is more directly affected by the holocaust, they have a better ground at determining whether something is offensive or not. And his joke was literally him saying "Gas the Jews" 23 times. How is that not poking fun at Jews or holocaust victims? He made a joke with it, a horrible one, trained his dog to react this way, and made something extremely in poor taste. If it was up to me, throw him in jail for some time to learn his lesson. Nazism is one of the most horrendous things to happen to mankind. It should be taken seriously specially since its tendrils seem to come back, thanks to people like you, who downplay nazis as just "oh idiots".

 

 

Apples and oranges. You're comparing what sounds like sexual assault to a guy making a joke that was targeting no one. If you actually think that intent or context has no relevance whatsoever then I bet I could dig up stuff from your past that would send you to jail, by your own logic. Don't tell me that you've never made an offensive remark or joke.

 

Both of them were claiming it was a joke. Both are using the same excuse you are using. I've made offensive remarks or jokes when I was a stupid brainless teenage. I've since grown more mature about it and don't find those things funny. If there was a law about it then, and someone was suing me for it, I'd have paid for it. In my native Brazil, finally the laws are getting stronger on these kinds of topics, and people are bitching that "oh but a decade ago I could joke about black people being poor and poor people being stupid! now I can't! It's unfair" no dipsh*ts, it's fair, because these people didn't have the power to stop you before, but now they do. You wanna go make sh*tty jokes? You. Are. Free. To. Do. So. Other people are also free to take you to court.

 

 

Everything is offensive. Empathy is irrelevant unless you're telling me that whenever you read or make a joke you think about the people that might be offended by it which kinda removes the possibility of saying any kind of joke.

 

Wrong. Everything isn't offensive. Some horrible things are, and I'm glad we clamp down on them hard. Racism, Homophobia, Nazism, all that sh*t should be kicked out of humanity. Lucky for me, I don't hang out with people who make terrible jokes. If they pull any sexist/racist crap, they're out of my life.

 

You are the one who thinks "oh just a little bit of hate speech is fine".

 

We've also completely derailed from the original topic at hand. If you want to continue this exchange, feel free to open another topic on the subject of PC culture gone mad. I think we did already have one, though.

Edited by Tchuck

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∴

Closest I could see was this topic on political correctness, which might suit this train of thought better. Remember to please keep things civil. I'm absolutely fine with heated debates, that's what this section is for, but so long as things don't turn personal.

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Dealux

I don't think that we should arrest individuals for saying anything unless they specifically threaten someone. What you're suggesting begins to sound like North Korea. Also your arguments are absolutely ridiculous. None of the examples I gave resulted in someone getting hurt as far as I am aware. If one individual speaks out their mind, publicly or not, and causes no tangible harm to others then they shouldn't be arrested. You can't f*cking police what people say. Jesus. It only becomes a problem when speech results into harmful action.

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Svip

Some Brits, help me out here.

 

So there is a not-so-interesting PolitiFact debunking of a Trump statement, wherein the President suggests that the British public doesn't like the NHS.

 

But that's not what I found interesting, it's this tidbit:

 

 

Trump’s Feb. 5 tweet came shortly after Nigel Farage, the former UK Independence Party leader, talked about the NHS march and universal health care on Fox & Friends, warning Americans it would be "politically impossible" to remove such a system once introduced. Trump thanked the network on Twitter for "exposing the truth" shortly after Farage’s appearance.

Now, I haven't seen the clip myself, but the way it is written on PolitiFact suggests that Nigel Farage is warning Americans against universal healthcare. But I thought Farage was a supporter of the NHS? I thought the NHS and immigration were the two main reasons people voted for Brexit.

 

Am I completely misunderstanding Nigel Farage's shtick?

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Typhus

Nigel Farage is an ultra-conservative. His populist rhetoric only extends to xenophobia against Eastern Europeans and other immigrants. On every other issue, he is to the right of the modern Conservative Party. You have to remember that in many ways, UKIP was always a splinter group of the Eurosceptics within the Conservative Party, as well as smaller far-right movements.

Anything he said positively regarding the NHS can't be trusted. He's very much an old Tory, in the mold of men like Jacob Rees Mogg.

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Crokey

Cadet Bone Spurs as misread the situation with the NHS, and hasn't understood what Numnutz has said. Yes it would be politically impossible to remove a Universal Healthcare system once introduced, cause as those of us in the civilized world know how appreciated the system is, that to pull that rug from underneath people would be a vote killer. Farage does like the NHS, which is kinda strange for him to want out of the EU when it's EU citizens that help to provide the main backbone of NHS staff. I think it's more a case that Politifact, who from my experience don't really get the the British system, have put the two and two together, in that Trump and Farage are BFF's and read it the other way.

 

I think that some people including Trumpton, have read it as Farage saying the system is bad, but then we all know how bad Trump and the Trump Administration is at reading things. #neverforgetthebowlinggreenmassacre.#peopleinscotlandlovebrexitwhenscotlandvotedoverwhelminglytoremainyoutotalplank #longhastags

 

It's like that same situation when apparently Obama was threatening" the UK about Brexit as the UK would be at the back of the queue in trade deals. When those of us who actually have an ounce of sense know that wasn't a threat, but a warning, a warning as to how slow the Houses work in DC in actually putting through any legislation etc.

 

It's just another case of people reading and listening but not comprehending things.

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Svip

In PolitiFact's defence, Nigel Farage tends to be a guy for the dramatic flair, and his 'warnings' tend to come off as if he personally is against it.

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Eutyphro

http://gtaforums.com/topic/873171-general-us-politics-discussion/?p=1070098452

 

I think in stead of 'forced' anything inbetween 'asked' and 'urged' was more accurate, but it doesn't matter that much. Even if he has a legal accusation of skipping bail against him, spending millions of pound, supposedly 10 million pounds per year, on security to arrest someone for skipping bail is obviously insane.

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sivispacem

Even if he has a legal accusation of skipping bail against him, spending millions of pound, supposedly 10 million pounds per year, on security to arrest someone for skipping bail is obviously insane.

It's a pretty trivial pissing into the wind given some of the other crap we spend money on.

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Svip

Actually, the charges in Sweden against Assange were political motivated, but not for the reasons Assange alleges. The women in question did drop the charges, but the public prosecutor decided not to. The reason had more to do with Sweden's no tolerance stance on rape and it's strong feminist credentials. A prominent figure like Assange just walking away from such allegations would seem like a huge embarrassment.

 

Hell, even Assange initially recognised this as the reasoning, before he came up with the 'extradition to the US' argument.

 

The article also says Ecuador used the US threat as its argument for granting him asylum. But that's only the 'public argument', the real reason is that Ecuador wanted to 'take a stand against the US', something that's quite popular in Latin America. I doubt they were fully convinced that Sweden would simply hand him over to the US.

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