UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion & DIY Home Improvement Thread

[Raavi]

15 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Get it out of your head that the EU is better than America. Because in no way shape or form is this true.

 

Ah yes like the US's complete and utter absence of robust consumer protection, little to no effective environmental protection (someone say Flint, MI?), health & safety standards stemming from 100 years ago, pretty much no social safety nets, sky-high medical costs that bankrupt people, world class incarceration rates, homicide rates rivalling that of second / third world countries.. Just to name a few.

 

Yes, Obviously the US is better than the EU. 

[ilovebender.com]

4 minutes ago, Raavi said:

 

Ah yes like the US's complete and utter absence of robust consumer protection, little to no effective environmental protection (someone say Flint, MI?), health & safety standards stemming from 100 years ago, pretty much no social safety nets, sky-high medical costs that bankrupt people, world class incarceration rates, homicide rates rivalling that of second / third world countries.

 

Yes, Obviously the US is better than the EU. 

Since we share

• Freedom of Speech
• Rights of Minorities
• Recognition of Intellectual Property

I'd say America is a better fit than most since Freedom of Speech and Rights of the Minority are in fact rare in this world, not common; It's so rare, countries not too far away in Europe don't even have these values like us; but America does.

America basically copied a lot from English law so it's no coincidence either; hence the special relationship people cite so much.

Why is any EU country better for us than America?

Edited December 15, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

5 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Rejoiners talk like Boris Johnson didn't wipe out Jeremy Corbyn this week, and they don't see how they need help.

 

Are you implying that, not support Brexit, Boris and the Tories means you need help, in what way?  Mentally, psychically?

They're the arguments of those that know they've lost the argument and cannot back up their words any longer.  The, 'when all other options fail, insult,' form of Debate And Discussion.

 

I remember the Brixton Riots, the Toxteth Riots, the Miner's Strike....  The last time the Tories had a thumping majority and started modelling the UK in their ideal image.  Boris is going to find out how bad things got in due course, only this time he's going to struggle to keep up with fluid situation.  Now the communication systems and social media mean protests can be kept mobile and secret to the last second. 

You're about to have a small taste of the 80's I grew up in.  You won't enjoy it.

 

3 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Since we share

• Freedom of Speech
• Rights of Minorities
• Recognition of Intellectual Property

 

Yeah, in that case, own this, because you gave more opportunities for freedom of speech to manifest itself :

[Eutyphro]

28 minutes ago, gooeyhole said:

I'm laughing now reading this.

It reads like a parody and crap interpretation of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Serfdom
"Countries and organizations that embrace centralized planning and big government are literal Nazis." It's sort of a joke by itself, but especially considering Britain and the USA are as much planned economies as Western European capitalist economies. I've seen this conflation of social democracy with Nazism among Hayek reading friends, and it is pretty idiotic. I'm not even going into the specifics of ilovebender's application of these ideas, because they are self evidently dumb. I mean:
 

Quote

You do realise countries in the former USSR now make up the Eastern Bloc in the EU, there's your former Communists, and what used to be Franco Spain or even Nazi Germany are also in the EU, there's your former Fascists; as for Socialists; look at Portugal and a huge, huge coalition of Socialist MEPs; there's your Socialists.

 

Why would anyone like the UK who doesn't depend on the EU to ward off the tyrants, want to be with these backward historical losers when we don't need the EU for our peace and prosperity?

f*cking lmao, this doesn't even need to be refuted but it shines bright in its own immense stupidity.

Conflating central planning with Nazism is by itself a parody of Hayek. Ilovebender is another layer of stupidity on top of that.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Eutyphro

[ilovebender.com]

Yeah, I see you're in denial about the country we're living in rejecting For the Many not the Jew, and I see you think isloated incidents of racism = state oppression of minorities or something; Honestly. You should accept Boris Johnson won and that Brexit's happening.

The General Election of Decemeber 2019 happened... Deal with it.

[Raavi]

16 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Since we share

• Freedom of Speech
• Rights of Minorities
• Recognition of Intellectual Property

I'd say America is a better fit than most since Freedom of Speech and Rights of the Minority are in fact rare in this world, not common; It's so rare, countries no too far away in Europe don't even have these values like us; but America does.

America basically copied a lot from English law so it's no coincidence either.

Why is any EU country better for us than America?

 

Freedom of expression is a right enshrined in art. 10 of the ECHR, the EU charter of fundamental rights, and most national constitutions in Western/Northern Europe. Try again.

 

Rights of the minorities? Like cake shops being allowed to refuse consumers based on their sexual orientation? Or black people being systematically shafted in the US criminal justice system? Or toddlers being separated from their parents and put in literal prisons? Or do you perhaps mean being denied medical coverage because you have a pre-existing conditions? Those rights of minorities?  

 

Intellectual property enjoys robust protections in Europe both on the national level as well as on the level of the EU through multiple directives. Most recently in the news with the Directive on Copyright in the Digital Single Market 

 

Repeating something ad nauseam does not make it true. The UK is much closer aligned with Europe both strategically and economically. Brexit won't magically move the British Isles, you will very much still have to deal with the EU. The only difference is you now don't get a vote in in laws that will still directly impact you. So congrats.

[Pesos]

23 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

 

Rejoiners talk like Boris Johnson didn't wipe out Jeremy Corbyn this week, and they don't see how they need help.

 

Behave. Boris didn't do sh*t; Murdoch and co did the heavy lifting lol.

[ilovebender.com]

You remember the Brixton riots and the miner's strike... But you don't remember last week when Boris Johnson wiped out Jeremy Corbyn or any of the things Jeremy Corbyn's done in London against London; From occupying Parliament Square when Brexit happened so we couldn't voice our frustration on London being dragged out of the EU to shutting down the railway networks in 2017 to try and oust Thresa May; Jeremy Corbyn's a loser and so were the miners who went on strike;

What do you want I ask you; cleaner renewable energy or coal miners? Make up your mind; Thatcher was a visionary and before her time but whatever you want, Brexit's happening and Boris Johnson has successfully saw off Jeremy Corbyn, which is why we elected him to head the party in the first place! 

Edited December 15, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

8 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Yeah, I see you're in denial about the country we're living in rejecting For the Many not the Jew, and I see you think isolated incidents of racism = state oppression of minorities or something; Honestly. You should accept Boris Johnson won and that Brexit's happening.

Doesn't mean I have to preach hallelujah and sacrifice my first born at the altar of Brexit!  If freedom of speech is allowed in your Brexit Utopia, I have my right to exercise that and be critical of the situation.

Besides, Herr Man Frog bitched and whined for 20 years before Cameron finally shut him up by agreeing to the 2016 referendum.  Something tells me it won't be that long before the economic pressures force England back, begging for forgiveness and re-entry into the EU.  Scotland, NI (through Eire) and Wales (will go in due course, once Northern Wales loses it's blue tinge), may well take great pleasure in making people like you end up in that situation....

[sivispacem]

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

What's there to understand?I I'ma Conservative 

How is this remotely relevant to anything I've posted? You literally asked me to explain something, then completely ignored my response when I did.

 

It's abundantly clear to everyone that you've got no actual understand or even appreciation of the things you say, are are just parroting dogma.

 

And why do you keep drawing analogies between the UK and US in freedom of speech? Our protections and legislation are literally nothing like those across the pond.

[ilovebender.com]

1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

 

 

And why do you keep drawing analogies between the UK and US in freedom of speech? Our protections and legislation are literally nothing like those across the pond.

I thought you said you knew what you were talking about.

UK and US tax and legal system are identical because they adopted them when they became independent from England (not exclusively us, they also adopted things from the Sioux Nations too) but things like legal system, we share.

Freedom of expression isn't as good as freedom of speech, because with freedom of expression, you're only free to express what you're allowed to say, but with freedom of speech, you have the freedom to say.

So we have more in common with America than we do countries in the EU, unless you take away my freedom of speech and replace it with the lesser freedom of expression to express what I'm allowed to say anyway I want.

 

You should learn the history of England and America and Europe and you'd see who's got more in common with who and where and why. The same EU that includes those shaped by histories who's walls fell and who's tyranny we stood up to. Britain never needed the EU for peace, because it never had Communism or Fascism. 

"The two nations are bound together by shared history, an overlap in religion and a common language and legal system, and kinship ties that reach back."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom–United_States_relations

Edited December 15, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

34 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I thought you said you knew what you were talking about.

I do know what I'm talking about, which is why I know you're talking utter drivel.

 

34 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

UK and US tax and legal system are identical

They are absolutely, categorically not.

 

In the case of the legal system, they're fairly similar in their basic structure inasmuch that they're (or at least the US and England are) both common-law systems at their root. But there are fairly significant practical differences- such as the absence of Grand Juries and voir dire. And in matters of devolved powers, the legal systems of other parts of the union are not entirely common-law; they're hybrid common-law/civil-law systems. Given that legal powers are almost entirely devolved in Scotland's case, claiming the UK and the US legal systems are "identical" is patently laughable- as constituent parts of the UK don't even share the same basic structure.

 

Can you explain to me why you believe that the US tax system, which is wildly different from that of the UK, is actually "identical" to it?

 

34 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Freedom of expression isn't as good as freedom of speech

So you keep saying, but what you don't seem able to explain are:

 

a) Why this is the case

b) Why this is relevant given that free speech is also a constitutionally enshrined right elsewhere in Europe

c) The dichotomy between your assertion that the UK's laws on speech are "freer" than those elsewhere in Europe, when we lag behind other European countries in indices representative of free speech, such as Press Freedom and Freedom from Censorship.

 

Instead of repeating the same dogmatic nonsense, try addressing these points.

 

34 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

So we have more in common with America than we do countries in the EU

The problem with this assertion is twofold:

 

Firstly, the argument you've made vis-a-vis legal and tax systems, and freedom of speech, don't actually support the assertion that the UK has more in common with the US than the EU.

Secondly, the argument you've mad vis-a-vis legal and tax systems, and freedom of speech, diverging between the UK and Europe, is factually wrong.

 

34 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You should learn the history of England and America and Europe

I know vastly more about global history and geopolitics than you do; I can say that with absolute and categorical conviction.

[Tchuck]

10 hours ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

Aside from some remain supporters possibly having the satisfaction of saying "I told you so", why would anyone want that?

You severely underestimate how satisfying it can be to use those magical words, though.

 

And it would make an example out of Britain, to the peoples of the world, of how sh*t the right is, how sh*t cancervatism is, how a united world is better. If it ends with an independent Scotland and Ireland? Even better.

 

Democrats winning would only really be a bad thing if it was Biden or Clinton.

[Grotti Vigilante]

9 hours ago, Tchuck said:

You severely underestimate how satisfying it can be to use those magical words, though.

 

And it would make an example out of Britain, to the peoples of the world, of how sh*t the right is, how sh*t cancervatism is, how a united world is better. If it ends with an independent Scotland and Ireland? Even better.

I don’t doubt the words are satisfying, but I don’t think it’s worth it in this case. Aside from a moment of pride the situation has not changed at all. I mean you could just as well say this election result made quite the example out of the left, but the fact is now we have Boris Johnson with enough seats to almost steamroll what he wants through Parliament. Not to mention all the sheer lack of credible leaders that will now leave the Labour Party in the wilderness for at least a decade now. Only after they purge it of the Cult of Corbyn will the UK have a credible opposition, so long as it also provides a centre-left alternative.
 

9 hours ago, Tchuck said:

Democrats winning would only really be a bad thing if it was Biden or Clinton.

Unless the Democrats drop all of their race-baiting identity politics and politics of grievance then any winner will be a bad thing. Biden and Clinton I’ve no doubt will carry on with it, or if not that, then at the very least appease it. I admit to having a very deep hatred of the Democrats as a party as well, so I must warn you of some degree of personal bias in any of my own arguments, both now and in future.

[ilovebender.com]

18 hours ago, sivispacem said:

I do know what I'm talking about, which is why I know you're talking utter drivel.

 

They are absolutely, categorically not.

 

In the case of the legal system, they're fairly similar in their basic structure inasmuch that they're (or at least the US and England are) both common-law systems at their root. But there are fairly significant practical differences- such as the absence of Grand Juries and voir dire. And in matters of devolved powers, the legal systems of other parts of the union are not entirely common-law; they're hybrid common-law/civil-law systems. Given that legal powers are almost entirely devolved in Scotland's case, claiming the UK and the US legal systems are "identical" is patently laughable- as constituent parts of the UK don't even share the same basic structure.

 

Can you explain to me why you believe that the US tax system, which is wildly different from that of the UK, is actually "identical" to it?

 

So you keep saying, but what you don't seem able to explain are:

 

a) Why this is the case

b) Why this is relevant given that free speech is also a constitutionally enshrined right elsewhere in Europe

c) The dichotomy between your assertion that the UK's laws on speech are "freer" than those elsewhere in Europe, when we lag behind other European countries in indices representative of free speech, such as Press Freedom and Freedom from Censorship.

 

Instead of repeating the same dogmatic nonsense, try addressing these points.

 

The problem with this assertion is twofold:

 

Firstly, the argument you've made vis-a-vis legal and tax systems, and freedom of speech, don't actually support the assertion that the UK has more in common with the US than the EU.

Secondly, the argument you've mad vis-a-vis legal and tax systems, and freedom of speech, diverging between the UK and Europe, is factually wrong.

 

I know vastly more about global history and geopolitics than you do; I can say that with absolute and categorical conviction.

Did you even bother watching that video?

 

Because it reads like you hadn't bothered to learn.

 

Watch this video, then come back to me, and I don't want to hear how it's 70 years old, that's besides the point, since freedom and democracy in UK and USA predate even this.

-VIDEO DELETED, DUPED LINK-

 

Freedom of speech is big, don't brush it off and claim freedom of expression is freedom of speech.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Uncle Sikee Atric
Removed the 2nd video link as it's identical, if ppl want to watch it, they can do it above.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

Did you even bother watching that video?

 

Because it reads like you hadn't bothered to learn.

 

Watch this video, then come back to me, and I don't want to hear how it's 70 years old, that's besides the point, since freedom and democracy in UK and USA predate even this.

-VIDEO DELETED, DUPED LINK-

 

Freedom of speech is big, don't brush it off and claim freedom of expression is freedom of speech.

 

You're missing a rather obvious point.

The channel showing that video is called the US National Archive.  Now call it pedantic, but political material released to museums and archives is no longer relevant on the geopolitical stage.  So it's no longer needed by it's Government and released as a permanent record as to the political thinking of the time.  Today, videos like that are little more than educational material to allow new generations to understand what their forebears were living daily.

 

Relying on material like that for all your arguments is the same as totally dismissing the last 70-80 years of history and classing all Germans as Nazis, just because there's archive footage of Hitler being cheered by crowds in Berlin....  Oh, wait a minute, you do exactly that! 

[sivispacem]

3 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Did you even bother watching that video?

It has absolutely no relevance to anything I've said. That you think it does simply accentuates your total lack of basic comprehension.

 

I don't mean to be blunt or flippant, but you've got literally no f*cking clue about anything you've posted on so far.

[Ned Bingham]

I feel there is too much being made of Corbyn's unsuitability to be prime minister and not enough  being made of the truly radical and revolutionary agenda proposed.  Corbyn the individual is probably competent enough to make a decent fist of being prime minister but the media is overplaying his unsuitability, perhaps because members of the public who are interviewed can finger the man but may find it difficult to express their anxieties about what a truly radical shake up of the economy would mean.  Imagine what leaving the EU plus enacting such a revolution would have meant for the country.  The forces behind Corbyn wished for the dissolution of Capitalism as we know it.  How would such a dissolution have sat with remaining in the EU?  No wait, if we had radically altered our Capitalism, all the other EU economies would naturally have followed our shining example.

 

A Corbyn administration of course wouldn't  have radically changed much.  It would have tinkered at the edges whilst at the same time borrowed huge amounts of money. 

[sivispacem]

The mistake you make is separating the individual from the ideology; he's been the primary driving force behind Labour's move back toward their traditionalist positions. In essence, his grassroots movement has spent the last three or do years trying to reimagine Labour in his image.

[Eutyphro]

1 hour ago, Ned Bingham said:

Imagine what leaving the EU plus enacting such a revolution would have meant for the country.  The forces behind Corbyn wished for the dissolution of Capitalism as we know it.

North Korea?
 

Quote

No wait, if we had radically altered our Capitalism, all the other EU economies would naturally have followed our shining example.

Lol?

[ilovebender.com]

3 hours ago, sivispacem said:

It has absolutely no relevance to anything I've said. That you think it does simply accentuates your total lack of basic comprehension.

 

I don't mean to be blunt or flippant, but you've got literally no f*cking clue about anything you've posted on so far.

You have no clue, that's why.

That video teaches you shared values, and highlights important things like freedom of speech, and yet you, you list a bunch of stuff contrary to the video and cite freedom of expression is freedom of speech; maybe if you watched the video, instead of contradicting it.

May I correct you; what you've posted so far has nothing to do with reality; because in reality, Germany, France, NL, the leaders in the EU ahead of even lesser countries, still aren't on par with UK or USA when it comes to rights and freedoms.

You may go on about freedom of expression, but you haven't showed me freedom of speech anywhere outside of the UK in the EU.

Why should these countries be ahead of America in trade with the UK? 21 miles is more alien than 3, 000 miles so if you base your argument on our proximity to this mess known as the EU, then you're selling out America and UK at the same time.

 

Brexit is happening and I for one feel the EU's had too much time already, and now I'd feel happier with Global Britain looking out of the prison that is the EU. They said no to Theresa May saying 'no cherry picking' - fine, no deal it was then. Time for UK to look elsewhere saying the EU's had their chance and said no.

 

Why America?

If anything, we also have a shared language in the UK and US, maybe get Germany and France and co speaking English like America; but since that's a waste of time to dream, let's just be closer to America and forget these backwards people with whom we share nothing but a continent with.

 

2 hours ago, sivispacem said:

The mistake you make is separating the individual from the ideology; he's been the primary driving force behind Labour's move back toward their traditionalist positions. In essence, his grassroots movement has spent the last three or do years trying to reimagine Labour in his image.

Labour are in an excellent place right now; (Blaming the leader/in fighting between two former Labour MPs who's lost their seat) - magical times indeed watching this evil turning on itself after it was defeated.

I see the fall of Corbynism like a liberation for the rest of us, and I love the news for 3 days straight now treating Momentum like a pariah as something to explain for the result of the general election last week as headline news even today.

The only thing I haven't seen yet is Owen Jones been invited back to the news, and probably for the better, Corbynism is dead.

Edited December 16, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[Grotti Vigilante]

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

in reality, Germany, France, NL, the leaders in the EU ahead of even lesser countries, still aren't on par with UK or USA when it comes to rights and freedoms.

A look on Freedom in the World 2019 will show you very clearly that the UK ranks below the following European countries from highest aggregate score to the lowest...

1. Norway (100)
2. Sweden (100)
3. Finland (100)
4. Netherlands (99)
5. Luxembourg (98)
6. Ireland (97)
7. Denmark (97)
8. Switzerland (96)
9. Belgium (96)
10. Portugal (96)
11. San Marino (95)
12. Andorra (94)
13. Estonia (94)
14. Germany (94)
15. Spain (94)
16. Cyprus (94)
17. Slovenia (94)
18. Iceland (94)

Then finally comes in the United Kingdom scoring a 93/100 score. That ranks it in the 19th position when it comes to freedom status in European countries. However, looking at the whole list including the worldwide nations, it comes in at 26th. The United States meanwhile, that nation you're portraying as the bastion of freedom and rights, comes in at 52nd place with a score of 86/100, lagging behind several other European countries which include:

1. Austria (93)
2. Lithuania (91)
3. Czech Republic (91)
4. Malta (91)
5. Liechtenstein (90)
6. France (90)
7. Italy (89)
8. Slovakia (88)
9. Latvia (87)
10. Greece (87)

Now bear in mind that the continent of Europe as a whole contains 51 countries including the transcontinental ones. Yet here we can see that 18 of them are already ranking above the United Kingdom in freedom ratings, and 27 of them (not including the UK) are ranking above the United States. More than half the continent has a higher freedom rating than the US, so let us not pretend that the US and the UK are the bastions of freedom and human rights among a group of oppressive totalitarian regimes that seek to enforce inequality onto the masses. No doubt that you'll be stubborn enough to try and refute this evidence with the same anecdotal points you've already made, but this evidence speaks for itself. To me, your whole arguments seem to be more based about bashing Europe rather than actually supporting freedom and human rights. 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Grotti Vigilante

[sivispacem]

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

That video teaches you shared values

Let me stop your there. The video "teaches" me absolutely nothing, because I'm already fully aware of the contemporary shared history.

The reason it's no absolutely no relevance is because you reference it specifically as evidence of the UK and US legal and tax systems being identical. To which is, empirically and without equivocation, has no relevance.

Similarly, the rest of your post completely fails to respond to, rebut or even tangentially address a single point I made, making your writing it, and my reading it, a complete waste of everyone's time. 

 

You're so woefully incompetent at holding a coherent discussion that you can't even understand what you're writing, let alone anyone else.

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

because in reality, Germany, France, NL, the leaders in the EU ahead of even lesser countries, still aren't on par with UK or USA when it comes to rights and freedoms.

You've clearly never looked at any of the freedom indices.

 

Let's take the example of personal/individual liberties- as that's primarily what you're talking about here- and the Cato Institute's "Human Freedom Index". Most recent one can be found here: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2018-country-profiles-revised.pdf

Because you seem to have such fundamental comprehension issues with words, I thought I'd make you a nice pretty diagram instead.

 

Here's a selection of personal freedom rankings for our European neighbours:

 

Eight of the top ten countries in the word for personal freedom are in Europe. None of them are the UK.

If you're interested to see where the UK sits overall:

 

Oh dear. Eight places adrift the worst of those listed above.

 

The UK does pretty well overall in this one because of the economic factors- places like Germany and the Nordics are much less economically free than the UK because true hybrid economies have concepts like Worker's Councils which necessarily impede on economic rights to further individual ones.

But in terms of personal freedoms, we're a very long way behind.

 

But wait! There's more!

• The Reporters Without Borders 2019 Press Freedom Index (https://rsf.org/en/ranking/2019) has Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium occupying six of the top ten places. The UK comes 33rd.
• The World Index of Moral Freedom (http://www.fundalib.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/World-Index-of-Moral-Freedom-2018.pdf) has the Netherlands, Portugal, the Czech Republic, Germany, Spain and Switzerland in the top ten, with the US, the "home of the free" coming in at tenth. The UK is 36th.
• The Democracy Index (https://www.eiu.com/public/topical_report.aspx?campaignid=democracy2018) has Norway, Iceland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Switzerland in the top 10. The Netherlands is 11th, Germany is 13th and the UK 14th.
• The Freedom of the World Index (https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2018) Finland. Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, Ireland, Switzerland, Belgium, Iceland, Andorra, Cyprus, Estonia, Germany, Slovenia and Spain all above the UK.

I could go on, but I feel it would probably be mockery to present any more than the five independent and entirely sourced and verifiable data sets above.

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Why should these countries be ahead of America in trade with the UK?

Because, if your logic is that we should be seeking to trade with nations which provide the most freedom for citizens- which is thus far the closest thing you've present to an argument why the UK is better placed to trade with the US, they're all objectively, demonstrably and empirically better.

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

maybe get Germany and France and co speaking English like America

You are aware that most Germans, especially in the corporate/business world, are fluently bilingual?

Many French are too (for instance, I was in France back in February/March in a multi-participant meeting including agencies of the British and French government and several private companies which was conducted entirely in english), but I go to Germany on business multiple times a year and it's always conducted in English.

 

Which you'd probably know if your life experiences didn't revolve around playing guitar, drinking margaritas in student dive bars and living in a mouldy dive of an apartment.

 

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

You have no clue

"Oho!" said the pot to the kettle;

"You are dirty and ugly and black! Sure no one would think you were metal, Except when you're given a crack."

"Not so! not so!" kettle said to the pot;

"'tis your own dirty image you see;

For I am so clean – without blemish or blot – That your blackness is mirrored in me."

[ilovebender.com]

So in the UK we have majority rights justifying hiding the face as an offensive to pull off a burqa and refuse public service since it believes the state knows better?

How does a place that

 

1. Doesn't speak English
2. Has no freedom of speech
3. Wishes to topple America

 

Better for us than our like minded cousins, the Americans?

 

Did you know because of our shared language, some intellectual properties since the early days of recorded medium (the early 1900s) are cross represented in UK/USA with PRS and ASCAP sharing representation - because of our common language.

 

You go side with backwards people down the road, but the UK is leaving our less evolved EU members behind with their rights of the majority and hatered of free speech and distrust for the Americans.

Edited December 16, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

The answer to your question is on the last page, in very clear pictorial and written form, presented in near unison by two completely different posters.

You're just too much of a charlatan to understand it.

 

Actually, "charlatan" is probably an unfair term; at least a charlatan knows their own ignorance.

[Grotti Vigilante]

9 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

So in the UK we have majority rights justifying hiding the face as an offensive to pull off a burqa and refuse public service since it believes the state knows better?

How does a place that

 

1. Doesn't speak English
2. Has no freedom of speech
3. Wishes to topple America

 

Better for us than our like minded cousins, the Americans?

 

Did you know because of our shared language, some intellectual properties since the early days of recorded medium (the early 1900s) are cross represented in UK/USA with PRS and ASCAP sharing representation - because of our common language.

 

You go side with backwards people down the road, but the UK is leaving our less evolved EU members behind with their rights of the majority and hatered of free speech and distrust for the Americans.

Yet once again you make out like the rights of the majority and the minority are mutually exclusive. You are also making out like banning the burqa is something done purely out of reasons for being offended rather than the fact covering your face in public is a legitimate security concern for some people, especially with Islamic terrorism being an ever present threat to the UK and that having your face shown in public makes you more identifiable and puts others at ease in such times. The only true thing you've said here is that English is not the predominant language in many European countries, but it is actually a widely spoken language around the world in itself. In some countries, it is the lingua franca. But then why am I not surprised that despite having evidence presented you that you still persist in your same claims that have been debunked?

 

In fact, the greater question here is why are you still here? It's now clear as crystal to me that you are not interested at all in having an honest debate and instead just want to post your anti-European rants without challenge and hope that by repeating the same points over and over citing anecdotal incidents and points as indisputable proof of your claims that we may give up on you and thus give you the victory. That's not happening I'm afraid. The fact you've been presented with evidence that you're ignoring, combined with the fact on one occasion you've brought up the election results and called me a relic of the past despite not knowing how I voted, what issues matter to me, my stance on Brexit as a whole, and fact the election is irrelevant to the points made already proves that you've lost the argument. 

[ilovebender.com]

Dude, it doesn't matter, this is not France, we have rights of the minority and our women don't have to remove their burqa in public; UK wins; France are backwards since they have no right of the minority.

[Svip]

Why do you think it's going to be a hard Brexit, when it seems pretty clear that Johnson will want to have the existing Withdrawal Agreement passed before Christmas, which would mean a soft Brexit?  It's pretty clear that PM Johnson wants a trade deal with the EU post-Brexit.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Svip

[ilovebender.com]

1 hour ago, Svip said:

Why do you think it's going to be a hard Brexit, when it seems pretty clear that Johnson will want to have the existing Withdrawal Agreement passed before Christmas, which would mean a soft Brexit?  It's pretty clear that PM Johnson wants a trade deal with the EU post-Brexit.

It'll be good to have a free trade deal with the EU, but having a deal with the EU doesn't mean being in the EU, so why should any UK trade deal with the EU retain the 4 freedoms given to EU citizens to apply to the UK and vice versa.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/474751-trump-boris-johnson-discuss-ambitious-free-trade-agreement-uk-spox

Since I doubt Trump'll be impeached, I'm still listening to him when he says he and the PM are looking to do an ambitious new trade deal between UK and USA.

 

If Brits and Americans can have freedom of movement instead; I'd love it; but I doubt that's going to happen since trade deals don't usually include freedom of movement. - But if UK and US had freedom of movement, than anyone British or American would be able to live and work in the other country visa free. Meaning I could retire in Malibu or some place in Florida if we had freedom of movement, no questions asked.

Edited December 16, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

What incentive would the US have to give a favourable trade deal to a significantly smaller economy in its moment of relative weakness? You're the one whose dribblled on about America First; their only priority is to establish favourable terms for themselves to the wider detriment of smaller partners.

 

It's literally the first rule of statecraft. I have no idea why you genuinely believe that the US would make some kind of exception.

 

 

You haven't got the faintest clue how international relations works.