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BRITLAND

UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion & DIY Home Improvement Thread

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Grotti Vigilante
6 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Rights of the minorities isn't minority rule.

It just means that UK's been a beacon for those fleeing persecution since the Huguenots left France little lone when the Jews left Germany. That's why rights of the minority or better than majority rights, because our women can wear burqas in public.

I only realised too late that was what you meant. Regardless, I really don't understand where you are coming from. I mean you can't say minority rights are any better than majority rights. Regardless, pretty much every western nation accepts the rights of both groups, so there's not much that makes the UK special in that regard. Also, despite women being allowed to wear burqas, you'd be very much surprised how many people would support a ban on the face coverings. Myself included. Covering your face in the UK is not considered as acceptable as the middle eastern countries where burqas are in abundance. Quite interestingly even, the burqa in that region is a symbol of oppression. Which particular examples can you cite that suggest the European countries are using majority rights to justify acting horrible to people? 

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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Clem Fandango
2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Yet still, Boris Johnson won and I couldn't be happier, he crushed that Socialist Corbyn too, yay democracy!

Ok, have fun going 400,000 quid in debt for an operation because Boris sold the NHS to American private equity firms. But at least you can mow your lawn on Sundays or whatever it is you equate with freedom.

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ilovebender.com
1 minute ago, Clem Fandango said:

Ok, have fun going 400,000 quid in debt for an operation because Boris sold the NHS to American private equity firms. But at least you can mow your lawn on Sundays or whatever it is you equate with freedom.

Lies, the NHS isn't up for sale, but I'd enjoy not needlessly moving Parliament or the Bank of England to Birmingham or deploying a Robin Hood tax.

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Clem Fandango

The NHS is 100% for sale, this is the party that was talking about privatising the police until Corbyn moved the Overton window back to reality. 

 

Also what planet are you lot on where you invoke Robin Hood as some nefarious figure lol, you know he's the good guy in those stories? I have no idea what you mean about moving the parliament either, but who cares what city it's in? Whatever, you'll get a dose of reality soon when Boris transforms Britain into a corporate tax haven where 70% of the economy are sweatshops and the other 30% are inscrutable finance firms.

 

He says it'll be like Singapore, that famously free country where you go to jail for chewing gum or whatever. 

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ilovebender.com
24 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

Which particular examples can you cite that suggest the European countries are using majority rights to justify acting horrible to people? 

I'm glad you asked...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25419423

France

 

The NL

 

Meanwhile in Britain...

 

5 minutes ago, Clem Fandango said:

...

 

He says it'll be like Singapore, that famously free country where you go to jail for chewing gum or whatever. 

If not just the square mile City of London, perhaps the whole of the UK, I'd love for a tax haven on UK shores... I'd love "Singapore on the Thames" - Gotta keep competitive out of the EU despite what the EU wish.

I don't see a problem with the Tories, deal with it. And Corbyn's gone, deal with that too.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Clem Fandango

You don't see a problem with the Torries because your politics are entirely coloured by bizarre rhetoric rather than material concerns. Turning Britain into Singapore is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. 

 

And yeah I can deal with Corbyn being gone, hopefully he'll be replaced with a stronger figure. Someone who wants to throw the Queen's corgis out of closed windows and burn down the palace. 

 

Also if you think things are tense between the English and the Scottish now, wait until Scotland goes independent and is flooded with English refugees eating all the chips and drinking all the lager.

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Crokey

(just hidden some posts) Enough spamming the topic with text diarrhoea and more D&D, thank you

 

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sivispacem
8 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Can't even mow your lawn in Munich on a Sunday with a powered lawn mower because it's in a built up area.

What's your point here? Last time I checked, being able to mow your lawn on a day of your choosing wasn't a fundamental human liberty.

In principal it's not really any different to the regulations we have on unsociable noise under the Environmental Protection Act 1990- just applied at a different time.

 

8 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Try wearing a burqa and getting a ride on a bus in Amsterdam or Paris

You definitely won't have a problem im Amsterdam, as all the public transport entities refused to enforce the restriction, making it unworkable on day one.

I'm no advocate of the bans on religious garb, but thankfully they're confined to a small handful of nations or locations- most of which aren't actually in Northern Europe.

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

that's why here in UK and indeed in America, we have the rights of the minority

More broadly, the same rights do exist- and often to a greater extent- across wider Europe. Pretending minority rights is something purely isolated to English speaking countries is patently ridiculous.

In fact, it's a central tenet of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.

 

The irony of your comments above, particularly in reference to the US, is that several states have enshrined the right to discriminate against people based on minority aspects (such as religious or sexual identity), using your own beliefs or corporate policy as a justification.

Already you have a state of affairs in the US where organisations can and do prohibit minority sexual identities from employment; refuse to provide specific services to people based on their identity, et cetera.

 

Many of the great strides we've made here in the UK on subjects of equality have been entirely due to our membership of the EU, and yet we still lag significantly behind many of our fellow Europeans on simple fundamentals like the gender pay gap. Of the 28 EU countries, the UK is ranked 22nd. 

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

pitch fork & torch wielding angry mobs sponsored by the state.

So whereabouts in Europe do we have "pitchfork and torch wielding state sponsored mobs" then?

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Don't get me started on how many countries not too far away don't have freedom of speech.

The actual right to free speech, as a negative right with a huge number of caveats, is actually fairly restrictive in the UK, much more so than in, for instance, Scandinavian countries.

Our defamation laws are a perfect representation of this- we've become a one-stop-shop for defamation and libel suits the world over becasue the burden of proof on defendants is so high.

 

UK free speech laws are nothing like those of the US, thankfully, and are far more similar to equivalent legislation elsewhere in Europe.

The UK does fairly poorly compared to our European colleagues in, for instance freedom of the press (39th globally, with ~18 of the EU28 and ~20 European states ranking higher).

 

I don't know why you keep using the US as an example of positive freedom, as they're far less free than most of Northern Europe in every empirical metric.

Even the Cato Institute's ranking, which are libertarian-leaning in their metrics, ranks the US as 18th of 162; the UK is joint 8th with Ireland, with Denmark 6th and Switzerland 2nd. As is normally the case, New Zealand tops the rankings.

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Tchuck
10 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Lies, the NHS isn't up for sale, but I'd enjoy not needlessly moving Parliament or the Bank of England to Birmingham or deploying a Robin Hood tax.

Hahahahaha

 

Boy you clearly are misguided, eh? Nearly anything can be privatized, NHS included. Get ready to get extremely f*cked in the ass by a right-wing government. Every single point of the leave campaign was a lie. It's been proven already. Yet you bought it, hook line and sinker. 

 

From the response of the brexiteers on this thread, they must live in an alternate reality.

 

@Svip: I will absolutely love if a democrat takes the election next year, and makes life a lot more difficult for England in future negotiations. I can't imagine in what world closing yourself off to a market that's 20 miles away and pursuing one that is a frigging ocean away is a great deal.

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Uncle Sikee Atric
2 hours ago, Tchuck said:

I will absolutely love if a democrat takes the election next year, and makes life a lot more difficult for England in future negotiations. I can't imagine in what world closing yourself off to a market that's 20 miles away and pursuing one that is a frigging ocean away is a great deal.
 

 

With the election a year away Trump's going to be busy fighting that, so little more than preliminary talks between the US and UK will be happening for now.  Besides, the 'transition phase' will be in effect until the end of 2020 between the UK and EU, so we're tied to their rules and no say on their legislation.

What Boris isn't letting on though is that Barnier has made it clear there's no talks until after the September recess for the EU Parliament, their schedules are fully booked until then with business they've been placing on the back burner during that Brexit period, including the important budget planning.  So there's no chance of Boris getting that deal in a few months and all but the most ardent Brexiters in the Tories are expecting him to drag the talks into 2021 and well beyond, with bills in the Commons for endless extensions for the transition period.

Remainers are already becoming Rejoiners.  They're not happy and waiting for the reality for those that 'lent their vote' to sink in.  We might be leaving, but the fight enters a new phase, with no indication a deal will be finalised before the next election.

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Ned Bingham
28 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Remainers are already becoming Rejoiners.  They're not happy and waiting for the reality for those that 'lent their vote' to sink in.  We might be leaving, but the fight enters a new phase, with no indication a deal will be finalised before the next election.

Like the song says "You can check in but you can never leave".

 

Looks like the forces of NeverLeave and assorted anti Boris/Tory protesters were involved in scuffles with police at Downing St. yesterday.  It seemed to involve Momentum, Antifa and other usual suspects.  It will be interesting to see whether this develops into anything substantial or prolonged as time goes on.

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Grotti Vigilante
13 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

I'm glad you asked...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25419423

France

 

The NL

 

Meanwhile in Britain...

 

If not just the square mile City of London, perhaps the whole of the UK, I'd love for a tax haven on UK shores... I'd love "Singapore on the Thames" - Gotta keep competitive out of the EU despite what the EU wish.

I don't see a problem with the Tories, deal with it. And Corbyn's gone, deal with that too.

I mean those examples are just isolated cases. It doesn't mean a systematic hatred towards minorities. In the UK, there are groups of a similar nature. Britain First is one that springs to mind, who have been known to harass Muslims and "invade" mosques. Let us also not forget only a few years ago where a Mosque in Finsbury Park was attacked. There's even concerns about Islamophobia (much as I detest the word, there's no other way to describe it) in the Conservative Party. The Prime Minister himself has joked about women in burqas looking like letterboxes (which I didn't personally find too offensive). Let us not pretend like we are the bastion of minority rights among a continent of far-right lunatics seizing power, and let us not pretend the United States is either. Both are great countries in terms of freedom and equal rights, but several European countries score higher. 

1 hour ago, Ned Bingham said:

Looks like the forces of NeverLeave and assorted anti Boris/Tory protesters were involved in scuffles with police at Downing St. yesterday.  It seemed to involve Momentum, Antifa and other usual suspects.  It will be interesting to see whether this develops into anything substantial or prolonged as time goes on.

Professional protesters are quite the thing in the UK. Not surprised that Antifa were there though. They are always there to cause trouble and commit acts of terror as long as there is someone they don't like. If it was up to me I'd have anyone associated with that group arrested, because using violence and intimidation against people for political gains is the dictionary definition of terrorism. 

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Eutyphro

ilovebender.com looks like a lolbertarian or Ayn Randian, who considers 'The Road to Serfdom' his Bible, and has an interpretation of the world based on it which looks like a parody, but he genuinely means it.

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ilovebender.com
11 hours ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

I mean those examples are just isolated cases. It doesn't mean a systematic hatred towards minorities. In the UK, there are groups of a similar nature. Britain First is one that springs to mind, who have been known to harass Muslims and "invade" mosques. Let us also not forget only a few years ago where a Mosque in Finsbury Park was attacked. There's even concerns about Islamophobia (much as I detest the word, there's no other way to describe it) in the Conservative Party. The Prime Minister himself has joked about women in burqas looking like letterboxes (which I didn't personally find too offensive). Let us not pretend like we are the bastion of minority rights among a continent of far-right lunatics seizing power, and let us not pretend the United States is either. Both are great countries in terms of freedom and equal rights, but several European countries score higher. 

Professional protesters are quite the thing in the UK. Not surprised that Antifa were there though. They are always there to cause trouble and commit acts of terror as long as there is someone they don't like. If it was up to me I'd have anyone associated with that group arrested, because using violence and intimidation against people for political gains is the dictionary definition of terrorism. 

The attack on the Finsbury Park mosque was an isolated act; the banning of the burqa and denying public services is rights of the majority suffered by minorities in France and NL and every where else it prevails; not in the UK; Why shouldn't UK be closer to the US who hold these same values, why should we be forced to get along with our backward neighbours who believe in the rights of the majority. 

 

If it comes to EU First or America First for the UK, why does EU deserve our trade?

They have alien ideologies and regard our friends (the United States) as the competition to topple.

15 hours ago, Tchuck said:

Hahahahaha

 

Boy you clearly are misguided, eh? Nearly anything can be privatized, NHS included. Get ready to get extremely f*cked in the ass by a right-wing government. Every single point of the leave campaign was a lie. It's been proven already. Yet you bought it, hook line and sinker. 

 

From the response of the brexiteers on this thread, they must live in an alternate reality.

 

@Svip: I will absolutely love if a democrat takes the election next year, and makes life a lot more difficult for England in future negotiations. I can't imagine in what world closing yourself off to a market that's 20 miles away and pursuing one that is a frigging ocean away is a great deal.

Still better than Jeremy Corbyn; I woke up to a crushed Jeremy Corbyn and a Tory working majority.

Do you really think this country is that stupid as to let Jeremy Corbyn lead it?

Edited by ilovebender.com

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sivispacem

Do you do anything other than uncritically repeating the same inaccurate, tired mantras ad nauseum? Not exactly putting on s blinding display of rationality, critical thinking and logic are we?

 

6 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

rights of the majority suffered by minorities...every where else

Where? You've yet to cite a single example outside of these two and yet you're continuing to claim its universal.

 

6 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

the US who hold these same values

Why do you continue to think about the US holds the same, or even remotely similar, values to the UK? It borders on delusional 

 

6 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

If it comes to EU First or America First for the UK, why does EU deserve our trade?

For a great number of entirely pragmatic reasons.

 

Firstly, they're a substantially larger market with greater economic reach and the ability to trade friction and tariff free with more third party nations.

 

Secondly, our regulatory systems are already aligned to EU standards, especially important in sectors such as financial services which make up the bulk of UK GDP. It's fanciful to the point of ludicrousness to think that the US would permit in their trade deal the near hegemonic level of domination of the FS sector and operation of FMI that the UK has had as an EU member.

 

Next, one that's already been pointed out- proximity. This is exceptionally important in respect of time sensitive or perishable goods. Nobody in their right mind thinks airmailing fresh produce at huge cost, or letting goods rot in containers on a many day sea crossing, is frankly absurd if we can have goods of a higher quality shipped over from Europe in 35 minutes.

 

There's plenty more, but I'll leave you to digest these bleedin' obvious ones before I get into the nitty gritty of anything more esoteric.

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Svip

Even ignoring perishable goods, shipping across the Atlantic is always going to be more expensive than shipping across the English Channel.  Small businesses in the UK that currently export to other parts of Europe would definitely see a significant decline in profits, if the UK does not strike a trade deal with the EU.  If not outright having to close shop.

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Clem Fandango

This is Conservatism. Just sell your stuff in New Zealand bro, they speak English there. You actually have to explain to them that Germany is right there while the other English speaking countries are miles away. Not to mention that different countries have different markets. It's not that obvious things like this don't occur to them, it's that they literally don't care. Conservatism presents a reality completely different to our own.

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Grotti Vigilante
11 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

The attack on the Finsbury Park mosque was an isolated act; the banning of the burqa and denying public services is rights of the majority suffered by minorities in France and NL and every where else it prevails; not in the UK; Why shouldn't UK be closer to the US who hold these same values, why should we be forced to get along with our backward neighbours who believe in the rights of the majority.

Banning the burqa comes down just as well to keeping people's faces visible in public. You might think just because the UK doesn't have laws banning them means we're tolerant of them, but every YouGov poll since 2010 has more than half of adults supporting a ban on face coverings. I myself do so as well, because the burqa can just as well be used to hide the identities of dangerous individuals. The reason we haven't banned it isn't because of respect for the minority rights, it's because many politicians don't want to upset the crowd of politically correct crybabies who will kick up a fuss about it. Before you even suggest those people are proof the UK respects the minority as well, I suggest you look up the definition of virtue signalling. In my brutally honest opinion, refusing to show your face in public in the UK is a sign of not integrating into local customs. Anyone who willingly wears it, or any man who coerces his woman into wearing it, is not respecting the fact that we don't publicly cover our faces in the western world. We've banned having hoods and bike helmets on in shops, so why not go the whole way and ban all other coverings? Once again too, you talk as if the rights of the majority and the minority are mutually exclusive. Like we either respect the rights of the majority of the population or the minority of the population. Is it not possible to do both in your eyes?

 

Quote

If it comes to EU First or America First for the UK, why does EU deserve our trade?

They have alien ideologies and regard our friends (the United States) as the competition to topple.

Maybe the EU deserves our trade because there are countries on the continent that we have suffered through two bloody wars with together? Maybe they deserve our trade because we have close relationships with these countries? Or in fact on the contrary, maybe no country deserves our trade and instead has to be mutually agreed to between the relevant parties? I would say the latter personally. Let us also not pretend that the United States is our best friend in the whole wide world and that we are one BFF bracelet short of being two countries made together in the eyes of god. In recent years, most especially under Tony Blair, we have become their 51st state in some way. Not only have we taken on some of their customs to the point where Halloween is now our Autumn holiday rather than Guy Fawkes Night, or that Black Friday and Mischief Night is now a thing, but we have gone along with them on almost every foreign policy. The self-appointed world police that is the United States have continuously been poking their nose in middle eastern affairs, and we've not done a thing about it. We've just went along with them to the point where we don't have money to take care of our own citizens and veterans because we're spending it on bombs to help kill Syrian children. In all serious truth though, the US is just as much our friend as Europe is, and I think it's very disingenuous of you to suggest we're much better off with them. We have different interest with each one, and there's no reason we can't have international relations with both of them while looking after our own interest as well. 

 

On 12/14/2019 at 10:49 AM, Tchuck said:

I will absolutely love if a democrat takes the election next year, and makes life a lot more difficult for England in future negotiations. I can't imagine in what world closing yourself off to a market that's 20 miles away and pursuing one that is a frigging ocean away is a great deal.

Aside from some remain supporters possibly having the satisfaction of saying "I told you so", why would anyone want that? I mean never mind the fact that the Democrats are back in power in that scenario, that's bad either way. Ideally we wouldn't have to be in such a situation. Considering he now has an 80-seat majority, I'm hoping Boris Johnson doesn't have to appeal to the right-wing sect of the Conservative Party anymore and may go for a softer exit. In fact considering he's turned his back on everyone he's ever worked with, it'd be no surprise to me if he did so. He's Prime Minister now, so he's not got much more to work towards in his life.

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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ilovebender.com
1 hour ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

Banning the burqa comes down just as well to keeping people's faces visible in public.

You're just ignoring the facts that UK allows the burqa and doesn't buy into rights of the majority forcing women to take it off.

It doesn't matter how they justify it, it really doesn't, they can say it's to stop you from hiding a face till the cows come home from sh*tting on a gridded field - It might be good enough for these backward countries of the EU, but not of countries who respect the rights of the minority.

 

1 hour ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

Maybe the EU deserves our trade because there are countries on the continent that we have suffered through two bloody wars with together? 

Since when did EU deserve our trade over America based on wars in Europe?

Did I miss something, if WWI & WWII matters anything in who we trade with, you say countries that helped shed British and American blood alike deserve our trade over those who shed their blood with us for us? - That's stupid since you think Axis suffered with us when they blitzed London and killed allied forces in the liberation of Europe.

It's called history, you can't make the history argument if you don't know history; EU deserve our trade even less than America if you want to play the suffering together card.

 

Maybe Britain and America having a special relationship puts UK closer to USA? - Maybe this is reason enough to warrant a trade deal with America over one with France/Germany or the EU as a whole.

 

You're just a relic of the past, you can't get over the fact that the Tories are the good guys and Socialism and Command economy was defeated this week at polling stations across England.

 

Get it through your head; Tories won; Corbyn was bad news and we said good riddance to Corbynism in the UK.

Even Labour supporters couldn't bring themselves to vote for him.

 

As for the EU? I don't want a trade deal with the EU over a trade deal with America; I think we should sort out other trade deals now since we're leaving the EU - Remember, it was the EU who put themselves at the top of the queue for a trade deal, and I feel the clock on that has ran out at least twice now and we should leave with a no deal Brexit. No one can say UK broke the rules either, we played by the book; we tried with the EU first because we weren't allowed to negotiate with anyone else and we respected that.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Grotti Vigilante
12 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You're just ignoring the facts that UK allows the burqa and doesn't buy into rights of the majority forcing women to take it off.

It doesn't matter how they justify it, it really doesn't, they can say it's to stop you from hiding a face till the cows come home from sh*tting on a gridded field - It might be good enough for these backward countries of the EU, but not of countries who respect the rights of the minority.

I've not ignored anything at all, and I haven't denied that the UK allows people to wear the burqa. Once again you also make out like the rights of majority and minority are mutually exclusive, and it seems you're so set in that belief.

12 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Since when did EU deserve our trade over America based on wars in Europe?

Did I miss something, if WWI & WWII matters anything in who we trade with, countries that helped shed British and American blood alike deserve our trade over those who shed their blood with us for us?

I never said they did. I was offering counter points before concluding that trade isn't anything that is deserved and simply negotiated between two major parties. I understand that it was convenient for you to miss that out, but unfortunately as long as the whole of my post beforehand exists, you're not fooling anyone.

12 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You're just a relic of the past, you can't get over the fact that the Tories are the good guys and Socialism and Command economy was defeated this week at polling stations across England.

 

Get it through your head; Tories won; Corbyn was bad news and we said good riddance to Corbynism in the UK.

Even Labour supporters couldn't bring themselves to vote for him.

Thanks for giving everyone a valid reason why it's not worth arguing with you. Despite not talking about socialism and command economies, you seem to automatically think because I've disagreed with you that I'm the enemy, and that you and the conservatives are the crusaders for good. This clearly demonstrates that you have a very hard-line "us and them" attitude as well an intolerance to different opinions. You call me a relic of the past, but you yourself have displayed a very tribal attitude here. You see the majority and minority as totally separate groups with different rights in which only one can exist and not alongside each other, you think that practising a different policy than what you agree with automatically makes them backward thinking and not worthy of trading with us do-gooders that is the United Kingdom, even if it's for good reasons, and that because I had the sheer audacity to challenge some of your arguments, I am the enemy. No doubt you'll be patting yourself on the back thinking you've won the debate. Truth is, your black and white thinking is part of a big problem with society. Ironically much like a lot of Corbynistas you cannot comprehend the idea that there are different opinions with valid points and that instead, you're correct and everyone else is wrong. 

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ilovebender.com
5 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

I've not ignored anything at all, and I haven't denied that the UK allows people to wear the burqa. Once again you also make out like the rights of majority and minority are mutually exclusive, and it seems you're so set in that belief.

I never said they did. I was offering counter points before concluding that trade isn't anything that is deserved and simply negotiated between two major parties. I understand that it was convenient for you to miss that out, but unfortunately as long as the whole of my post beforehand exists, you're not fooling anyone.

Thanks for giving everyone a valid reason why it's not worth arguing with you. Despite not talking about socialism and command economies, you seem to automatically think because I've disagreed with you that I'm the enemy, and that you and the conservatives are the crusaders for good. This clearly demonstrates that you have a very hard-line "us and them" attitude as well an intolerance to different opinions. You call me a relic of the past, but you yourself have displayed a very tribal attitude here. You see the majority and minority as totally separate groups with different rights in which only one can exist and not alongside each other, you think that practising a different policy than what you agree with automatically makes them backward thinking and not worthy of trading with us do-gooders that is the United Kingdom, even if it's for good reasons, and that because I had the sheer audacity to challenge some of your arguments, I am the enemy. No doubt you'll be patting yourself on the back thinking you've won the debate. Truth is, your black and white thinking is part of a big problem with society. Ironically much like a lot of Corbynistas you cannot comprehend the idea that there are different opinions with valid points and that instead, you're correct and everyone else is wrong. 

You didn't even bother learning from what I taught you.

 

I bet you just hate Tories and America and freedom.

 

 

Well, doesn't matter; Corbyn's now a ghost of the past and his shadow cabinet have fallen; Boris Johnson won and UK's leaving the EU.

Nothing you can say to warp these facts can change anything;

 

Corbynism = Dead.

UK being in the EU = Over.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Grotti Vigilante
6 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You didn't even bother learning from what I taught you.

 

I bet you just hate Tories and America and freedom.

You haven't taught me anything. Nothing of value anyway. I don't hate any of those things either. At least not as much as you hate Europe and different opinions to your own.

Quote

Well, doesn't matter; Corbyn's now a ghost of the past and his shadow cabinet have fallen; Boris Johnson won and UK's leaving the EU.

Nothing you can say to warp these facts can change anything;

I haven't tried to warp these facts at all. I haven't even talked about Corbyn and Johnson. You were the one who brought them up in our argument about Europe and the US. 

Quote

Corbynism = Dead.

UK being in the EU = Over.

Nobody's denied it. Not many are pleased with it, but nobody has denied it. Considering the dismal options though I couldn't care less.

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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ilovebender.com
10 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

You haven't taught me anything. Nothing of value anyway. I don't hate any of those things either. At least not as much as you hate Europe and different opinions to your own.

I haven't tried to warp these facts at all. I haven't even talked about Corbyn and Johnson. You were the one who brought them up in our argument about Europe and the US. 

Nobody's denied it. Not many are pleased with it, but nobody has denied it. Considering the dismal options though I couldn't care less.

You dared justify state oppression of minorities by using that tired line 'it's about covering the face' which is b/s when France bull dozed Romani Gyspy camps in the name of majority rights.

It's also disrespectful to assume EU deserve our trade over America without giving a good reason.

If UK was in Latin America, would you rather we traded with our neighbours then over our like minded countries too?

EU is not America, being in the EU is like trading with our enemies in the hope we become friends - turning our back on our friends (America) in the process to achieve this. Thankfully, UK's not going to be the EU after January 31st.

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Grotti Vigilante
4 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You dared justify state oppression of minorities by using that tired line 'it's about covering the face' which is b/s when France bull dozed Romani Gyspy camps in the name of majority rights.

I can't comment on the Gypsy issues, and haven't bothered to. The face coverings though are an important issue, especially with Islamic terrorism being a thing. Considering the burqa hides identities, we don't want to be chancing a bunch of jihadis smuggling their way through customs without being checked.

Quote

It's also disrespectful to assume EU deserve our trade over America without giving a good reason.

Good job I didn't then. 

Quote

If UK was in Latin America, would you rather we traded with our neighbours then over our like minded countries too?

Completely different political situation. I wouldn't want to be doing business with Venezuela if that's what you want to hear.

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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ilovebender.com
4 minutes ago, Grotti Vigilante said:

 

Completely different political situation. I wouldn't want to be doing business with Venezuela if that's what you want to hear.

Then you're happy Boris Johnson handed Corbyn his A' on a plate this week.

 

Remember when 'Red Ken' Livingstone was Mayor of London and TFL (Transport For London) and he struck a deal with Venezuela to fuel our buses with the then Chavez blood stained oil?

 

Edited by ilovebender.com

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Grotti Vigilante
9 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Then you're happy Boris Johnson handed Corbyn his A' on a plate this week.

Not happy. But not surprised. My pencil did almost waver over the Conservative box on the ballot paper after all. 

 

Quote

Remember when 'Red Ken' Livingstone was Mayor of London and TFL (Transport For London) and he struck a deal with Venezuela to fuel our buses with his blood stained oil?

Never heard of it, but can't say I'd agree with it. To me it sounds no different than fuelling the buses with Saudi Arabian oil, who for some reason the west support, most especially the Americans.

Edited by Grotti Vigilante

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Uncle Sikee Atric
7 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Remember when 'Red Ken' Livingstone was Mayor of London and TFL (Transport For London) and he struck a deal with Venezuela to fuel our buses with the then Chavez blood stained oil?

 

Remember when Boris decided to 'hold the report' on Russian Interference in UK electoral events until after the 2019 election? 

Something tells me that report might disappear into the ether now, cannot think why?

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sivispacem
13 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Then you're happy Boris Johnson handed Corbyn his A' on a plate this week.

Are you going to actually respond to my posts? I can only assume that your failure to engage with most other posters' responses is down to your catastrophically poor understanding of the subject at hand.

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Uncle Sikee Atric
7 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Are you going to actually respond to my posts? I can only assume that your failure to engage with most other posters' responses is down to your catastrophically poor understanding of the subject at hand.

He's a typical Brexiter, in that he's always had someone else to blame for the failures in his own reasoning.  Corbyn, the EU, Labour as a whole, the amount of funny skin tones and accents on the bus....

Well now there's a difference, the Brexiters have to own their sh*t, without no one to blame but themselves.  The moderates who lent their vote won't be as supportive once the flaws in the logic become more than apparent.

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ilovebender.com
34 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

He's a typical Brexiter, in that he's always had someone else to blame for the failures in his own reasoning.  Corbyn, the EU, Labour as a whole, the amount of funny skin tones and accents on the bus....

Well now there's a difference, the Brexiters have to own their sh*t, without no one to blame but themselves.  The moderates who lent their vote won't be as supportive once the flaws in the logic become more than apparent.

You're a typical EUfile; flies the EU flag even.

Come 50 years time and the EU flag goes down in history with the Swastika, who'd be laughing then?

 

Considering Corbynism is now dead, I make no apologies for seeing Momentum as the thugs they are and calling them out on it online and on the street.

 

47 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Are you going to actually respond to my posts? I can only assume that your failure to engage with most other posters' responses is down to your catastrophically poor understanding of the subject at hand.

What's there to understand?

I'm a Conservative and the Tories won a working majority to enable Brexit.

Get it out of your head that the EU is better than America. Because in no way shape or form is this true.

Why can't the UK want a free trade deal with America?

Who are the EU to feel just because we're European we must side with those who wish to see us locked to them so we can't give them a run for their money?

Edited by ilovebender.com

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