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BRITLAND

UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion & DIY Home Improvement Thread

Recommended Posts

Dingdongs

He isn't saying (at least I think) that the only party one should support is one that a bunch of guys in labcoats support. The point is the Green Party claims to speak for scientific goals and use scientific arguments as why their party should get support, etc. while offering no practical ways to achieving it/evidence.

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sivispacem

He isn't saying (at least I think) that the only party one should support is one that a bunch of guys in labcoats support. The point is the Green Party claims to speak for scientific goals and use scientific arguments as why their party should get support, etc. while offering no practical ways to achieving it/evidence.

This, basically. In fact there's been a great deal of criticism directed at the current Green energy policy as unsustainable and actively harmful, especially with regard to their stance on nuclear power. Original comment was unclear, sorry.

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GTA_stu

The Greens and their crazy absurd policies are basically equivalent to the Monster Raving Looney party, they just also happen to push a strong eco-friendly image. They're also perfectly happy to say what they stand for and what they believe in and that they want this sort of society and everything else, but in terms of bringing actual workable economically viable policies to the table they're completely impotent. It's all airy fairy bark and no actual bite. Plus their leader is even more un-electable than Miliband. She's got a f*cking Australian accent lol. I mean come on.

 

I think there's a real gap in the market in UK politics for a centre of left party that has a very strong eco-friendly stance, it's just that the Greens are too far from the centre to appeal to enough people, as well as their other problems. I've got no idea on numbers, but I'll bet a fair amount of their support is from people who possibly see them as that, or basically vote for them/support them based almost entirely on their environmentally friendly stance. I think it's fairly similar, although to a lesser extent, to the gap in the market that existed for a centre right anti-immigration party, which UKIP has come along and filled.

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Captain VXR

The Greens and their crazy absurd policies are basically equivalent to the Monster Raving Looney party, they just also happen to push a strong eco-friendly image. They're also perfectly happy to say what they stand for and what they believe in and that they want this sort of society and everything else, but in terms of bringing actual workable economically viable policies to the table they're completely impotent. It's all airy fairy bark and no actual bite. Plus their leader is even more un-electable than Miliband. She's got a f*cking Australian accent lol. I mean come on.

 

I think there's a real gap in the market in UK politics for a centre of left party that has a very strong eco-friendly stance, it's just that the Greens are too far from the centre to appeal to enough people, as well as their other problems. I've got no idea on numbers, but I'll bet a fair amount of their support is from people who possibly see them as that, or basically vote for them/support them based almost entirely on their environmentally friendly stance. I think it's fairly similar, although to a lesser extent, to the gap in the market that existed for a centre right anti-immigration party, which UKIP has come along and filled.

A party like Janusz Palikot's Twoj Ruch (Your Movement) could do very well here, imo. There's a gap in the market for a genuine left-liberal party that is pro European/Western, economically centre-left, openly secularist - the complete separation of church and state, would commit to legalising drugs, in particular cannabis, further support for lgbt rights (Twoj Ruch has a trans mp and a gay mayor, a notable feat for a political party in Poland) and so on. I would currently choose between Green and Labour candidates in elections, but should a similar party pop up in the UK, they would have my vote.

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Smith John

Any one see UKIP: The First 100 Days on Monday? Ofcom (British FCC) have got over a thousand complaints over it and C4 too. Ironically when UKIP get this type of publicity they see in increase of support in the polls.Anyway found a video of Farage doing hip hop, any one unsure on who he is can learn everything about him :Dhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFk9KEOYlnw

I made a decision not to watch that "documentary" because, well, it was a Channel 4 production.

 

Was it any good?

 

So Cameron wants to limit his appearance in the proposed TV debates to one. What a blatantly spineless c*nt.

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sivispacem

Yeah, he's made a colossal dog's dinner of the whole thing.

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Pete4000uk

I hear the Greens might be going to drop their plans to ban private cars.

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Captain VXR

I hear the Greens might be going to drop their plans to ban private cars.

I'm pretty sure that isn't an existing policy anyway.

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Zook

 

I hear the Greens might be going to drop their plans to ban private cars.

I'm pretty sure that isn't an existing policy anyway.

 

They don't explicitly say we will ban all cars. People believe a clause in their manifesto would effectively lead to the banning of the majority of cars. This is the clause "Vehicles would not be permitted for road use that had the ability to travel at greater speeds than the majority of EU national maximum speed levels". I have no idea if it is true or not, I'm not into cars, it's just something I read on the telegraphs website.

Edited by Zook

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Svip

 

 

I hear the Greens might be going to drop their plans to ban private cars.

I'm pretty sure that isn't an existing policy anyway.

 

They don't explicitly say we will ban all cars. People believe a clause in their manifesto would effectively lead to the banning of the majority of cars. This is the clause "Vehicles would not be permitted for road use that had the ability to travel at greater speeds than the majority of EU national maximum speed levels". I have no idea if it is true or not, I'm not into cars, it's just something I read on the telegraphs website.

 

 

So what if you need to speed out of a situation that would exceed the maximum speed limit?

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Captain VXR

 

 

I hear the Greens might be going to drop their plans to ban private cars.

I'm pretty sure that isn't an existing policy anyway.

 

They don't explicitly say we will ban all cars. People believe a clause in their manifesto would effectively lead to the banning of the majority of cars. This is the clause "Vehicles would not be permitted for road use that had the ability to travel at greater speeds than the majority of EU national maximum speed levels". I have no idea if it is true or not, I'm not into cars, it's just something I read on the telegraphs website.

 

I'm pretty sure it was the Telegraph who made an article completely distorting the manifesto of the Greens. There's no way anyone sane would vote for such a policy.

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Zook

 

 

 

I hear the Greens might be going to drop their plans to ban private cars.

I'm pretty sure that isn't an existing policy anyway.

 

They don't explicitly say we will ban all cars. People believe a clause in their manifesto would effectively lead to the banning of the majority of cars. This is the clause "Vehicles would not be permitted for road use that had the ability to travel at greater speeds than the majority of EU national maximum speed levels". I have no idea if it is true or not, I'm not into cars, it's just something I read on the telegraphs website.

 

I'm pretty sure it was the Telegraph who made an article completely distorting the manifesto of the Greens. There's no way anyone sane would vote for such a policy.

 

The greens policy is decided on by members so there's probably a lot less political calculation when deciding policies. So a policy that only green members could support could make its way in there. Saying that I think there would have a massive focus and criticism of it.

 

Yeah I saw that article it was so awful, a few of my conservative friends absolutely loved it though..

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GTA_stu

There's no way anyone sane would vote for such a policy.

 

Unfortunately though there are a lot of perfectly sane people who vote for parties without having much of an idea about their actual policies.

Edited by stu

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Ottae

The Greens have the ultraleft student vote because they ignore their abysmal policies in favour of their status as the only real left wing party. Either way, I can only see them winning a couple of seats and not doing much else.

 

Unsurprised that Cameron has pulled out of the tv debates. He hasn't a great deal to gain from them, unless he does remarkably well (which ain't gonna happen). The other leaders on the other hand have nothing to lose.

 

A large factor in this election will come from the success of the SNP in Scotland, they'll take lots of Labour seats and could push their way into a kingmaker position. Let's hope they decide against getting into bed with Labour.

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dante財閥

A large factor in this election will come from the success of the SNP in Scotland, they'll take lots of Labour seats and could push their way into a kingmaker position. Let's hope they decide against getting into bed with Labour.

 

Who would you have them get into bed with?

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Ottae

 

A large factor in this election will come from the success of the SNP in Scotland, they'll take lots of Labour seats and could push their way into a kingmaker position. Let's hope they decide against getting into bed with Labour.

 

Who would you have them get into bed with?

 

No one, really. I'd be concerned that their interests would be too heavily biased towards Scotland and not the UK in general. Not to mention the fact that they want to become independent (clue's in the name), and having a party in power which doesn't want to be in the UK wouldn't be healthy for a government which unites 4 countries.

 

I'm all for them winning seats and having a place in the Commons, just not in charge of the country.

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dante財閥

 

 

A large factor in this election will come from the success of the SNP in Scotland, they'll take lots of Labour seats and could push their way into a kingmaker position. Let's hope they decide against getting into bed with Labour.

 

Who would you have them get into bed with?

 

No one, really. I'd be concerned that their interests would be too heavily biased towards Scotland and not the UK in general. Not to mention the fact that they want to become independent (clue's in the name), and having a party in power which doesn't want to be in the UK wouldn't be healthy for a government which unites 4 countries.

 

I'm all for them winning seats and having a place in the Commons, just not in charge of the country.

 

Looking at some projections a Labour/SNP alliance looks most likely.

 

Who are you voting for, if you don't mind me asking?

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Smith John

Yeah, he's made a colossal dog's dinner of the whole thing.

Indeed.

 

Let's be real, the guy has been trying to get out of these debates from the very beginning. UKIP were invited because of what I can only relate to their success at the European elections last year as well as being the new third largest supported party- according to YouGov- and he complained that the Greens etc should therefore be invited to join too. The broadcasters surrendered to this request by bringing in the Greens, the Scottish Nazi Party and Plaid Cymru (why in the hell Plaid Cymru were asked I have no idea). Then he complained that Northern Ireland should have representation, and now this bollocks. I'm presently holding much more respect for Miliband than Cameron at the moment, and it's certainly a very peculiar feeling.

 

I really hope the debates go ahead without some legal statutes being a barrier in what I hope leads to an empty podium scenario in this bloody circus of Tory-initiated events; if not for the politics of it all, then simply for the sheer hilarity.

 

BTW, sivis, just out of interest, as things stand now, and looking at the opinion polls of current as well as Labour's reluctance to rule out a potential coalition with the SNP, if the GE were to take place tomorrow and you were a betting man, what would you wager the outcome being?

 

E.

 

Looking at some projections a Labour/SNP alliance looks most likely.

Speaking as a 'No' voter at last year's referendum, this is one of my biggest fears of a very real potential outcome. Edited by John Smith
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Ottae

 

 

 

A large factor in this election will come from the success of the SNP in Scotland, they'll take lots of Labour seats and could push their way into a kingmaker position. Let's hope they decide against getting into bed with Labour.

 

Who would you have them get into bed with?

 

No one, really. I'd be concerned that their interests would be too heavily biased towards Scotland and not the UK in general. Not to mention the fact that they want to become independent (clue's in the name), and having a party in power which doesn't want to be in the UK wouldn't be healthy for a government which unites 4 countries.

 

I'm all for them winning seats and having a place in the Commons, just not in charge of the country.

 

Looking at some projections a Labour/SNP alliance looks most likely.

 

Who are you voting for, if you don't mind me asking?

 

I haven't decided yet, but probably leaning towards the Tories. I voted Lib Dem in the last General Election, so I won't be making that mistake again. They've lost my confidence when it comes to delivery what they promise.

 

I don't think Labour have what it takes to maintain economic growth, they're too hung up on trying to fix a "Cost of Living Crisis" which is becoming a non-issue more and more every day.

 

I believe the EU is important for Britain in too many ways to leave, so I won't be voting UKIP.

 

I'm not crazy about any party, but the Tories aren't doing a bad job at the mo. I don't think I even considered voting Tory 5 days ago, but things change.

Edited by Ottae

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BRITLAND

Rodents to be given human rights under Green Party plans

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/generalelection2015/rodents-to-be-given-human-rights-under-green-party-plans/ar-AA9uV0b?ocid=U206DHP

 

Animals would be protected under human rights laws and new taxes imposed on nappies under plans to be considered by the Green Party .

 

The insurgent environmentalist party, which hopes to hold the balance of power after the General Election by winning up to ten seats, will also propose creating a fleet of hospital ships to serve the developing world, cutting the size of National Lottery prizes and banning the Grand National.

 

The policies, set to become official policy during a series of debates on Saturday, underline the radical ambitions of Britain’s fastest-growing political movement, which now has 55,000 members – more than the Liberal Democrats or Ukip .

 

Natalie Bennett, the party leader, this weekend heralded a “peaceful political revolution” at the General Election.

 

Her party plans to form an alliance with the Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru to force a minority Labour government to spend billions of pounds a year more on welfare and abandon the Trident nuclear deterrence.

 

She sought to outflank Ed Miliband from the left with a lengthy denunciation of tax avoidance, foodbanks and low pay.

 

In a sign of the party’s growing appeal, Lily Cole, the Cambridge graduate and model, will on Sunday night appear alongside Ms Bennett during a panel debate on “Latin American experiments in direct democracy.”

 

The proposed policies come on top of the party's existing platform of legalising hard drugs and brothels, placing new restrictions on advertising and air travel, imposing taxes on large presents and pop stars and cutting economic growth to zero in order to protect the planet.

 

Under the plans to be debated by members, Article Five of the UN Declaration of Human Rights – stating “no one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment” – would be extended to “all sentient life forms”.

 

The Declaration was drawn up in 1948 in response to the horrors of Nazi Germany.

 

The plans would impose the same prison sentences for the killing, torture or “kidnapping” of dolphins, whales, apes and elephants as would occur for equivalent crimes committed against humans.

 

Members also propose a ban on commercial horse and dog racing.

 

In a move that would increase the cost of living for young families, the party membership proposes new levies on the manufacturers of disposable nappies, which account for up to six per cent of household waste and can take decades to degrade.

 

The Greens believe that the money spent maintaining a nuclear deterrence should be spent on foreign aid, increasing the budget to £16 billion a year, or one per cent of GDP.

 

On Sunday members will debate using the money to “build one or more hospital ships to provide worldwide humanitarian aid and support”.

 

They will also propose the creation of Forest Schools, so that children can build their “self-esteem through hands-on learning experiences in a woodland or natural environment with trees”.

 

Under plans to rewrite the rules of global trade, goods would be banned from entering the UK if they are made in factories that do not comply with British health and safety standards or do not pay a living wage.

 

As for those who enjoy a Saturday night flutter, members propose that “rather than creating a few millionaires, we would seek to make the lottery more progressive by dividing prize money into smaller chunks.”

 

The conference is the Greens’ sovereign decision making body, meaning policies approved by members become official party doctrine for the future of Britain.

 

An elected committee then decides which policies appear in the manifesto booklet.

 

This weekend the party leadership unveiled manifesto pledges to abolish tuition fees and provide free personal care for the over-65s.

 

However, fresh questions were raised about the leadership of Ms Bennett, a former journalist from Australia, after yet another faltering interview performance.

 

She appeared confused when asked in which nations of the United Kingdom the £9 billion a year pledge for social care would apply.

 

Ross Hawkins, the BBC’s political correspondent, asked: “In which nations of the UK would this apply?”

 

She replied: “That would be in England.”

 

Mr Hawkins: “So just England? And not Wales?”

 

Ms Bennett said: “No. Well, what we would have to do is look at where this is going. We are setting out the details of this.”

 

Mr Hawkins: “Why would the Green Party of England and Wales exclude Wales?”

 

Ms Bennett: “We would look at the whole pattern.”

 

Mr Hawkins said she appeared “uncertain” about whether it would “definitely be in Wales”.

 

Ms Bennett said: “This would be this would be the pattern across England and Wales.”

 

Mr Hawkins said: “It would be the pattern across England and Wales? So is that a commitment to free social care for over 65s in England and Wales.”

 

Ms Bennett said: “It is, yep, yep.”

 

Ms Bennett, a former journalist, said the policy would be paid for from a crackdown on tax avoidance, a financial transactions tax and higher personal taxes on those earning over £100,000 a year.

 

Aides declined to provide details of which tax avoidance schemes would be targeted.

 

Ten days ago Ms Bennett apologised to Green Party members after she was unable to explain how she would fund 500,000 new homes on LBC Radio, becoming lost for words before breaking into a coughing fit.

 

It followed a tortuous interview with the BBC’s Andrew Neil, in which she appeared uncertain how much her proposed “wealth taxes” would raise, and at what level they would be set.

 

Then, on BBC Radio 4, she raised eyebrows by suggesting that Britain should appease Putin by “letting him walk away with something” in Ukraine.

 

It has led some members to despair.

 

“She was a total disaster and she sounded like a rank amateur,” was the comment of one member on the party’s online forum. “She really has to resign and let someone take over who has the intellect to think on their feet and handle the media.”

 

Many others echoed the comment, and called for Caroline Lucas, the party’s MP, to take over.

 

Aides to Ms Bennett had earlier complained that she was at a disadvantage because the party lacks the research and press teams of the major parties. They acknowledge the party’s lengthy policy platform has caused some embarrassment as they seek to enter the political mainstream.

 

“But it definitely won’t happen again,” said one, hours before the BBC interview.

 

Those policy proposals in full

 

Animal rights: Article Five of the UN Declaration on Human Rights, banning “inhuman” treatment, is extended to all sentient life forms. The same prison sentences for the murder and kidnap of humans will apply to crimes involving elephants, monkeys and whales.

 

Nappies: Companies that manufacture disposable nappies face higher taxes to account for landfill

 

Grand National: Commercial horse and dog racing to be banned

 

National Lottery: Payouts to be smaller, with more winners, under “progressive” system

 

Aid: Budget to increase to one per cent of GDP, with hospital ships serving the developing world

 

Education: Forest Schools, giving children a “hands-on” appreciation of trees

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GTA_stu

Animal rights: Article Five of the UN Declaration on Human Rights, banning “inhuman” treatment, is extended to all sentient life forms. The same prison sentences for the murder and kidnap of humans will apply to crimes involving elephants, monkeys and whales.

 

So if a trawler accidentally catches and kills a small whale the crew will be done for manslaughter, or would that be whaleslaughter? We'll also no doubt take the Japs to the ICC for war crimes and attempted cetacean genocide.

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Clem Fandango

I don't think Labour have what it takes to maintain economic growth, they're too hung up on trying to fix a "Cost of Living Crisis" which is becoming a non-issue more and more every day.

What?

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Ottae

 

I don't think Labour have what it takes to maintain economic growth, they're too hung up on trying to fix a "Cost of Living Crisis" which is becoming a non-issue more and more every day.

What?

 

Inflation is decreasing, so one might argue that the cost of living is already coming down. I know it's not as simple as just that and the Labour party are going after the Energy companies, but in the current climate, it doesn't seem necessary.

 

To me at least.

Edited by Ottae

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Clem Fandango

But the cost of living crisis isn't about the recession. It's about wages, benefits and government services being consistently slashed.

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Ottae

But the cost of living crisis isn't about the recession. It's about wages, benefits and government services being consistently slashed.

 

You're right, but surely deflation means that the price of both food and non-food shopping items has come down, as has the price of petrol (Though, these are also because of both the supermarket wars and lower price of oil), it then means that the actual cost of living has decreased.

 

So instead of raising the wages to meet the cost of living, the cost of living is decreasing.

 

I'm not certain, but I think increasing wages and benefits may have an adverse effect in the long term on the growth of the economy and lead to more unemployment in the future.

Edited by Ottae

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BRITLAND

 

Any one see UKIP: The First 100 Days on Monday? Ofcom (British FCC) have got over a thousand complaints over it and C4 too. Ironically when UKIP get this type of publicity they see in increase of support in the polls.Anyway found a video of Farage doing hip hop, any one unsure on who he is can learn everything about him :Dhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFk9KEOYlnw

I made a decision not to watch that "documentary" because, well, it was a Channel 4 production.

 

Was it any good?

 

Basically it was a "documentary" where a camera team followed the life of UKIP's first and only elected Asian MP (from India or near that region). She is offered a deal to be a dface of UKIP as her being from ethnic background to stop the press claiming UKIP is racist in exchange for a high role cabinet position in Government. It also showed other members of the party saying how bad illegal immigrants are (like they're members of ISIS) but then saying but not you just the bad ones.

 

They showcased "events" that happened such as that company that makes planes in the UK leaving the UK due to leaving the EU, businesses being shut down, and protests from "UKIP haters" across the country.

 

The UKIP Government authorised Border Force or NCA to conduct thousands of raids on suspected illegal immigrants, they did around four thousand within the first one hundred days.

 

One of these illegal immigrant raids resulted in a 15-18 year old being badly assaulted by officers which led to huge demonstrations in the country, including the Asian MP's brother who has disagreed with his sister on her UKIP stance.

 

Nigel Farage on the one hundredth day of UKIP rule makes a new national holiday called "Britain Day" or something like that where the nation celebrates being British, though obviously it was more of being English. (not me disrespecting the English in anyway)

 

that's what I remember happening in it so you can make your mind on it.

 

I personally found it entertaining despite it really being trash TV.

 

 

BTW, sivis, just out of interest, as things stand now, and looking at the opinion polls of current as well as Labour's reluctance to rule out a potential coalition with the SNP, if the GE were to take place tomorrow and you were a betting man, what would you wager the outcome being?

 

E.

 

 

I'm not Sivis but I will also the question. I have a feeling that despite what people say the debates may give the smaller parties an edge, while if Cameron truly doesn't show up to the other two then that will only damage him more than actually doing them. The smaller parties like UKIP, Plaid and Greens I think will do better than polls are projecting, but not to Lib Dem 2010 levels.

 

In May I think it will either be:

 

A Conservative minority Government where they have the most seats but with no more then around 20, with David Cameron possibly resigning within a year or between three-six months after the election, which I think will lead to Theresa May (or maybe Boris Johnson) becoming the new Tory leader and of course new Prime Minister.

 

or

 

A Labour minority Government with an arrange and supply deal with the SNP (and possibly Plaid & Greens if those three continue their alliance after the election) with Labour giving the Scottish & Welsh Parliaments more powers.

 

Labour are trying to give the impression that they will not do a deal with the SNP but they are still to deny it, on Sunday Politics this morning Andrew O'Neil kept asking Margaret Curran (Shadow Scotland Secretary) if Labour are ruling out a deal with the SNP but kept dodging the question and trying to change the topic to housing and such.

Edited by BRITLAND

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Clem Fandango

I'm not certain, but I think increasing wages and benefits may have an adverse effect in the long term on the growth of the economy and lead to more unemployment in the future.

 

Oh I see, the reason wages and benefits haven't increased relative to productivity is for the good of the economy, so you'll get more money later! Here I was thinking we lived in a corrupt plutocracy.

The Greens and their crazy absurd policies are basically equivalent to the Monster Raving Looney party, they just also happen to push a strong eco-friendly image. They're also perfectly happy to say what they stand for and what they believe in and that they want this sort of society and everything else, but in terms of bringing actual workable economically viable policies to the table they're completely impotent. It's all airy fairy bark and no actual bite. Plus their leader is even more un-electable than Miliband. She's got a f*cking Australian accent lol. I mean come on.

 

I think there's a real gap in the market in UK politics for a centre of left party that has a very strong eco-friendly stance, it's just that the Greens are too far from the centre to appeal to enough people, as well as their other problems. I've got no idea on numbers, but I'll bet a fair amount of their support is from people who possibly see them as that, or basically vote for them/support them based almost entirely on their environmentally friendly stance. I think it's fairly similar, although to a lesser extent, to the gap in the market that existed for a centre right anti-immigration party, which UKIP has come along and filled.

Hang on, end immigration, withdraw from the EU, increase military spending 40% and reduce taxes on the wealthy (all to be paid for by eliminating a tiny, tiny margin of welfare recipients) is not centre-right, it's far-right goose stepping madness. You've got a lot of balls calling anyone else "loony" when you support this nonsense.

Edited by Melchior

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Svip

The whole limbo about UK's future in the EU has been rather damaging for the UK economy. When companies don't know the future, they don't take risks and they move their business away from the UK. Promising a referendum so far in the future was not thoroughly thought through by David Cameron.

 

Also, if UKIP is centre-right, I don't want to hear what you consider far-right, stu.

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