UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion & DIY Home Improvement Thread

[Eutyphro]

Anyway, the news is out and Corbyn will on be on the ballot. So the Blairites can go and drown in Chilcot bad publicity, unified hate by the public, and just generally f*ck off.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

Anyway, the news is out and Corbyn will on be on the ballot. So the Blairites can go and drown in Chilcot bad publicity, unified hate by the public, and just generally f*ck off.

 

Not going to unify the Labour Party though, is it?

 

That's both the boon and the curse of Labour and the only way to keep it unified is to employ what appears to be a center left leader who can appeal to every faction through carefully choreographed neutrality. Only when they get elected to party leader can they then use their new power to gradually bring the party into their way of thinking.

 

The only problem with that is, Corbyn was never more than far left and now he's in he's going to be like a barbed hook to remove, messy and stupidly painful. Never mind the brick through Eagles' party office window and the typically limp-wristed rebuttal of Corbyn, the hatred, splits infighting and rowing on the comments sections of news links is shocking to behold. I was never a Labour supporter, but there's no way in hell that looks good to anybody.

 

But look, comrade! Labour are in no way electable with all this going on and Corbyn needs to see this right now. They're making a split Tory party look like they've never been stronger and even other minorities like the Lib Dems, UKIP, even the SNP and Plaid Cymru, will clean up at their expense, if a snap election was ever called. (It shouldn't happen, but May isn't daft and might look to increase any lead she could get. That bonus might be very useful if something like, say, a tight and difficult Bexit vote at the Commons comes up....)

Edited July 12, 2016 by Sikee Atric

[Argonaut]

Anyway, the news is out and Corbyn will on be on the ballot. So the Blairites can go and drown in Chilcot bad publicity, unified hate by the public, and just generally f*ck off.

 

Unified in hate by the public from Chilcot's report alone? Really don't think this is the case at the moment where I think the public are to be found alittle lost with what's going on in the Labour party, and generally would wish something would be done to move it back to a credible opposition (but usually ending their opinions there).

 

Also to my knowledge, wasn't the vote on the Iraq war merely advisory anyway and had no constitutional basis for committing troops to action? In such circumstances, whether you agree or not, things such as loyalty to the party can come into play as your vote was only 'advice' anyway and detached from the process of war- aka what the hell would you bring up in a trial that you could conclude with credible certainty was one's honest view.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Argonaut

[Eutyphro]

Unified hate because New Labour as a political movement has no likeability or merit at all, and should be thrown out with the garbage. Labour doesn't need another 'center left' phony who nobody likes. These phonies are failing all over Europe eventually, no matter how charismatic they are. We eventually find out they have a complete lack of ethical principle or ideals and we want to get rid of these slimy opportunists. Same case for Diederik Samson in the Netherlands. He's an able politician and there's nothing wrong with him in terms of charisma or ability, but he's unprincipled garbage and I want to see him f*ck off as soon as possible. f*ck new labour. We need real socialism, not slimy imperialist war criminals, who support big banks, austerity, and poisenous trade deals pretend socialists.

Apart from that, the disorganization or bad publicity caused by these back stabbing garbage politicians isn't really Corbyn's fault now is it? But I guess you're probably echoing all the mainstream media shills like Andrew Marr who pretend it is.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Eutyphro

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

It doesn't matter if you call it New Labour, Old Labour, Communism, Socialism.... All the factions have to unify to stand any chance of getting elected.

 

Labour, as a whole, is finished right now and no amount of appealing to the factions for unity will get them a majority in the Commons.

 

The problem is the fact that the supporters of Corbyn are so blinded by the fact they got him into the top spot, they cannot now see the bigger picture of trying to find other MP's who are more 'charismatic' and able to communicate his message in a positive ethos. Corbyn is flat, dull and unable to get the message across in a suitably snappy way. In a world that is increasingly using only 140 characters or less to communicate, he's an Encyclopedia Britannica, and they went out of print over a decade ago....

Edited July 12, 2016 by Sikee Atric

[Eutyphro]

The fact that you want politicians to be 'snappy' is pretty much an insult to your own intelligence. Corbyn is an intelligent and honest politician, an extremely rare occurrence. Many people appreciate his honesty, eventhough he gets slandered by slimy opportunist every other day. He can win an election even if the garbage media will keep repeating he can't until hell freezes over.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

He might be intelligent and honest (I do admire his attributes on those regards), but if he cannot keep the attention of a crowd of anyone other than his own fanatical followers, how can he get the attention of a nation so that they want him to become PM?

 

You sound like you're caught in the Corbyn Event Horizon and that's the insult to intelligence here. I am only quoting the bigger picture.

[Clem Fandango]

ITT: concern trolling a party that you don't support claiming they need to abandon the only thing that makes them relevant.

 

Are you a political strategist? Because I am not and I personally am not willing to compromise with the right of the party to win a GE for its own sake. If Labour are near identical to the tories, why vote for them? If I'm in Britain during the next GE I'd vote for Corbyn, otherwise I'll stay home and smoke weed.

 

I don't even understand the 'party unity' thing, as if voters- the majority of whom are uninformed- are not going to smell dissent in the ranks and consciously choose to vote tory because they seem like they've got their sh*t together. Corbyn will be smashed by media red baiting, or he'll appeal to peoples' immediate interests and win. This is just a media narrative, and it exists in tandem with other ones about him being responsible for literally everything that happens in British politics and also being a sh*te gardener, and how can a sh*te gardener water the juicy melons that are the Great British Public.

 

Do you actually picture people going to the polls like "well Corbyn is going to stop the bank from repossessing my house, but Labour aren't good enough mates with each other so I'll vote for the people promising to gleefully kick me in the ribs."

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

I'm not questioning the political message, that's all fine and dandy. I'm questioning the man putting that image forwards and his ability to lead a party that has split because the rank below him have seen his ability to lead on a day by day basis.

 

The rank and file members simply see the man and his message, not the daily image he portrays in the Palace Of Westminster. Only his MP's and shadow cabinet see that side of Corbyn and if they have rebelled to the point there's a three quarters majority saying they have no confidence in him, what does that say about the man's ability to lead his party on a day by day basis? (Quite literally, day by day right now.)

 

I couldn't care if it was Angela Eagle, Neil Kinnock, Tony Blair, Buddha or Karl Marx's ghost himself running against Corbyn. My point is, the man has lost his way, shown little interest in plugging policies and policy adaptation that is beneficial for everyone else barring his cronies and is becoming more and more irrelevant as that day by day clock ticks by.

 

You talk about Labour grabbing a majority like it's sworn to happen and all bets are off. The last two weeks alone in British politics should have warned you that the wrong result might come up, then you have to live with the consequences.

 

Corbyn is the right man at the wrong time and until he sees that, Labour in it's current guise will be unelectable.

[Eutyphro]

I'm kind of confused how you are not responding to the fact that someone points out you don't even support Labour, and your ideas about how they should remove anyone with genuine political ideals so the mainstream media and other establishment c*nts can consider them 'electable' (which means, we the establishment tell you who you can and can not elect) is kind of meaningless and irrelevant.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

God almighty, I'll reach for the tinfoil helmet! All this conspiracy theory stuff.... The media is picking the bones on the story because it's a time of great political upheaval in the UK and Corbyn has shown little or no interest in actually trying to get solid answers out of the Tory Party about where we go now. Instead he's carried on like it's business as usual, when it's clear it really isn't and what is needed right now is solid progression and clear solutions. If he could supply those, the polling ratings would have soared as people listened, maybe to the point where he could have got the weight of public pressure that would have forced a snap election!

 

Just because my political alignment doesn't match yours, I'm not allowed to comment? How does that work, or is it because I don't align, I can see the bigger picture that is forming across the whole of UK politics and gaze down into the massive hole the Labour Party has managed to dig itself into, maybe even wave at a few of the trapped diggers....

 

If you want to know the truth, I'm very much Lib Dem, always have been too, plus I read Private Eye and that gives me a much clearer idea of things than mainstream media. I hate Blairites as much as Corbyns' camp do and the Tories are the only slightly below UKIP on my personal 'scum scale'. The Lib Dems might be small right now as a result of Clegg letting then get knobbled with all the bad news during the Coalition Government, but at least that small group is actually pulling together, hasn't split and is trying to work with the other small groups to actually force the required answers out of the Tories, rather than just bickering among themselves.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Sikee Atric

[Eutyphro]

The actual Labour members overwhelmingly support Corbyn, and he will whoop Angela Eagle ass right out of the park.. That you think someone else should be leader is as meaningful as me thinking big bird should lead the Tories. And no, the idea that an establishment exist, that there's a concentration of wealth and power in a limited amount of people, and that they deeply influence the media through profit incentives and advertising is not a 'conspiracy theory'. It's an institutional analysis. Refusing to close your mind to the common narrative does not make you a conspiracy theorist.

[sivispacem]

Unified hate because New Labour as a political movement has no likeability or merit at all

As I've pointed out numerous times in this topic, most of the rebels aren't Blairites. Many weren't even MPs at the time of the Iraq War vote. And several senior figures in the revolt, like Tom Watson, voted against. Your borderline obsession with Iraq is clouding your judgement on the matter.

 

The notion that Corbyn is actually popular amongst the electorate and that the negative impression put forward regarding him is manufactured is basically a conspiracy theory. There was recent polling done by YouGov of Union members, Labour's traditional core vote. Nearly 60% of those polled said he was doing a poor job as leader; 70% said he was not suitable to be PM and nearly 80% thought the Labour party would not win a general election with him at the helm. Not exactly glowing praise from those most traditional of Labour supporters.

 

Last year as Labour leader he failed to make any gains of local councils in England and Wales, in fact losing one- despite them taking place a year into a Conservative administration and amid dome of the most srvere public sector cuts seen in recent decades. Labour won the London mayoral election but was almost entirely annihilated on the Scottish elections, losing 20% of their vote and coming third to the Tories. This has so far done nothing to indicate that Corbyn is capable of extending his support beyond activists; in fact it suggests he's less popular in largely left-leaning places like Scotland than the Tories which is hilarious if you know anything about recent Scottish politics.

 

I like Corbyn as an individual. I think more MPs should be like him. However he's not a competent leader. His response to serious allegations of antisemitism in the party- allegations that have some weight given the findings of the review into the matter- was mealy-mouthed and limp. He has proven entirely unable to unite the party. As leader of the opposition he has persistently failed to needle the government on issues regarding individual rights, like the Draft Communications Bill. Most worrisome of all, he has done nothing to prevent local activists aligned with the Momentum movement from conducting campaign of harassment against democratically elected figures, including threats of deselecting and attempts to have people removed from local or regional executives solely for having views contrary to Corbyn's. For all his bluster about how having him excluded from the ballot would undermine party democracy, he's perfectly happy to watch his activists try and do the same.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

You see? You are precisely the reason why, Corbyn has no chance in a General Election.... It's so easy to wind up his supporters into the frenzy of blood, protest and rebellion. Yet, do you think that support translates well on 'the man / woman on the street that is watching this entire shambles'? I just shake my head in disgust every time I see the type of response you have just given.

'You're all wrong, the system is against us, we're right and Corbyn will lead us to a glorious future'! It is all well and good shouting these things, but that doesn't just give you a free pass into Number 10, nor does it unite a split party to give them the solid foundation they need to grow the grass roots support into a parliamentary majority.

I really don't care if Corbyn secures his leadership with another majority, the question is, will the PLP support him? If they don't, then your vote means diddly if your party cannot function in the role of shadow cabinet. Instead you will vote another leadership challenger campaign, or see your voting bloc split as your party splits into seperate parties. Either way in that scenario, you lose!

The hostility you project reminds me so much of the Neil Kinnock opposition.... Hatred, vitriol, far left politics and 10 years of opposition, not government, while a female PM gazes across from the government benches. Oh, wait, hang on....

UPDATE : It looks like Owen Morgan will run as a third candidate. He supports a lot of Corbyns' policies, thinks like him, is serving on the Corbyn Shadow Cabinet and he actually does have some character and media appeal. He seems a much more unifying candidate than Angela Eagle, so it will be interesting to see how she responds....

Edited July 13, 2016 by Sikee Atric

[BRITLAND]

Theresa is currently appointing her cabinet. Philip Hammond - Chancellor

Boris Johnson - Foreign Secretary

 

Amber Rudd is also expected to be Home Secretary and Michael Fallon is also to get a top job, some saying he could be the Brexit Secretary, or maybe he'll just remain at Defence.

[Abel.]

Hammond and May?

 

"Liked" for this. Classic.

 

 

As for how she's come to power, we aren't living in an absolute democracy, but a parliamentary one. There's nothing nefarious about how she rose--the conservative party was voted in by the British public, and she is its new head. You need to delegate some degree of choice to authorities or else you get tyranny of the majority.

[sivispacem]

I don't think there's a single example in British political history of a PM resigning and their successor triggering an election immediately.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

Hammond is even saying we won't invoke Article 50 until 4 years yet. That's still a way ahead.

 

You notice the correlation? If that comes to pass it'll be after the 2020 election before we invoke Article 50.

 

How to quietly brush Brexit under the carpet for four years? You just solved it.... In the interim, you can enjoy simple negotiation, long term planning and a second EU referendum when the General Election finally rears its' ugly head. Whether that's by a party support vote or a genuine referendum is another matter for four years time.

[Abel.]

There's enough instability as it is, and an immediate GE would only augment it. I doubt anyone but the tories would win at this time anyway. Better to have one later when the Lib Dems have garnered enough support to make a difference.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Failure

[Abel.]

 

Well, can't say the instability has affected me. Don't know anyone that has been directly affected by this result either. The only ones that have been affected are the big corporations and businesses

Right, which has a knock-on effect on the job market among other things. Political apathy doesn't lead anywhere good. Businesses hold massive sway in a free market system.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Failure

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

 

 

 

Well, can't say the instability has affected me. Don't know anyone that has been directly affected by this result either. The only ones that have been affected are the big corporations and businesses

Right, which has a knock-on effect on the job market among other things. Political apathy doesn't lead anywhere good. Businesses hold massive sway in a free market system.

 

Life is what you make it. If you really want a job you will find a job regardless of the challenges you face.

 

I say no more.

 

Tell that to the average British youth who refuses to get a menial job because they feel it pays too little, requires too much effort and the actual work is below their standard of living and expectation!

 

So an Eastern European grafter comes in to do it instead and the youth can moan about all the immigration....

Edited July 13, 2016 by Sikee Atric

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

I don't moan about it. That's what differentiates me from a lot of people. I get on with it. I have moaned -- but I don't moan anymore because I want some money and the only way you get money is by working hard for it.

 

It's a hard life. Always has been. Only difference is each generation faces new and unique challenges.

 

Sometimes you have to be old fashioned in your thinking and your thoughts on employment, although old fashioned are bang on! You have to start somewhere to earn and no matter where that is, you'll enter at an appropriate entry level. If only others saw that....

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

And good luck to you....

[Eutyphro]

As I've pointed out numerous times in this topic, most of the rebels aren't Blairites. Many weren't even MPs at the time of the Iraq War vote. And several senior figures in the revolt, like Tom Watson, voted against. Your borderline obsession with Iraq is clouding your judgement on the matter.

 

I called them new labour though. Which I'm using as a metaphor for the modern day fake socialists who support things like bailing out big banks, financial deregulation, low taxes for multinationals, austerity, trade deals that are designed for the ultra rich, aggressive foreign policy, etc.. That the overwhelming majority of British 'leftist' politics consists of such people does not surprise me at all, considering that's the case all over Europe.

 

 

 

The notion that Corbyn is actually popular amongst the electorate and that the negative impression put forward regarding him is manufactured is basically a conspiracy theory. There was recent polling done by YouGov of Union members, Labour's traditional core vote. Nearly 60% of those polled said he was doing a poor job as leader; 70% said he was not suitable to be PM and nearly 80% thought the Labour party would not win a general election with him at the helm. Not exactly glowing praise from those most traditional of Labour supporters.

 

It's logical they currently don't have faith in a man who has just been betrayed by his party. That's not surprising at all, but that doesn't mean Corbyn has no future potential to win an election, and can go from this low to a high. I saw the poll and you are selectively quoting and misinterpreting it. 50 percent say they don't even think it is likely Labour wins an election if Corbyn is replaced, only 20 percent lower than if he remains, considering the current situation of chaos not even bad. 38 percent say they would vote for Corbyn in a new Labour leadership contest. That's actually very encouraging. But off course the headline wasn't "38 percent of union members would vote for Corbyn in leadership election". Meanwhile, according to the BBC the over 70% number thought he would unlikely become prime minister, which is different than 'fit to be prime minister'. Off course people don't think he'll be prime minister when the entire Labour Party establishment is trying to kick him out.

 

 

 

Last year as Labour leader he failed to make any gains of local councils in England and Wales, in fact losing one- despite them taking place a year into a Conservative administration and amid dome of the most srvere public sector cuts seen in recent decades. Labour won the London mayoral election but was almost entirely annihilated on the Scottish elections, losing 20% of their vote and coming third to the Tories.

 

I'm not informed enough about British politics to fully comment. What I've read and seen informed me Labour actually did better than expected since Corbyn, and didn't disappoint. I think considering how badly elites want him gone, if his results would've been that bad he would already be gone.

 

 

 

His response to serious allegations of antisemitism in the party- allegations that have some weight given the findings of the review into the matter- was mealy-mouthed and limp.

 

Didn't he fire those who made antisemitic remarks and say such ideas have no place in the party? I think that's what he did. I've really rarely seen you being so biased and inaccurate as here.

 

@Sikee Atric: I've not been hostile or 'rebellious' at all. I'm simply being straightforward. Me pointing out that the ideas of a centrist on what the left should do are as irrelevant as my ideas about how the right should appoint big bird, is not hostile. It's common sense. Me pointing out you are insulting yourself when you say you want snappy politicians who sound like a twitter feed when talking is not hostile. It's pointing out that you are ridiculing yourself.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Eutyphro

[sivispacem]

I called them new labour though. Which I'm using as a metaphor for the modern day fake socialists who support things like bailing out big banks, financial deregulation, low taxes for multinationals, austerity, trade deals that are designed for the ultra rich, aggressive foreign policy, etc...

In the UK, "new Labour" and "Blairite" are synonymous. And much if your above categorisation simply doesn't apply to many of Corbyn's critics. Owen Smith, Tom Watson... I could continue.

 

Union members are not all Labour members.

No, but they represent a very large proportion of them. The largest proportion if I remember correctly.

 

I saw the poll and you are selectively quoting and misinterpreting it.

Er, no I'm not.

 

http://election-data.co.uk/poll-of-trade-union-members

 

Almost two-thirds (63%) of respondents feel that Mr Corbyn is doing badly as leader of the Labour party compared to a third (33%) that think he is doing well. Over three-quarters (76%) of respondents say it is unlikely that Mr Corbyn will ever become Prime Minister. Over two-thirds (69%) think it is unlikely Labour will win the next election with Mr Corbyn as leader with only a quarter (24%) thinking it is likely, a net likelihood of -45%. The respondents believe Labours chances of winning the next election improve if Mr Corbyn is replaced as leader, with the net likelihood improving to -15% (49% to 34%) in that event. Little surprise then that 45% of the trade union respondents believe Mr Corbyn should step down now as leader and 13% think he should step down at some point before the next election. Finally 38% of trade union members say they would vote for Mr Corbyn in a leadership election compared to 35% that wouldnt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I've read and seen informed me Labour actually did better than expected since Corbyn, and didn't disappoint.

His inner circle, the unions and grassroots have tried to spin it as a victory, but compared with the typical outcomes of local elections taking place during a government term they were far from impressive. The councils' in which elections took placed showed a strong swing towards Labour during the last set of local elections under Milliband, and this was reversed under Corbyn resulting in net losses for Labour. And that pales in significance compared to their complete and total annihilation in Scotland.

 

Didn't he fire those who made antisemitic remarks and say such ideas have no place in the party?

No, he didn't. In fact to the best of my knowledge exactly none have been expelled from Labour.

 

Ken Livingstone, Illyas Aziz, Shah Hussain, Miqdad Al-Nuaimi, Terry Kelly, Saleem Mulla and Naz Shah remain suspended to the best of my knowledge.

Vicki Kirby was reinstated.

Khadim Hussain quit the party.

 

I've really rarely seen you being so biased and inaccurate as here.

This must just be a manifestation of cognitive bias on your part as literally everything I've said is empirically, demonstrably true.

 

You've admitted you lack knowledge on the subject, how can you justify that with asserting bias on my part?

[Raavi]

After an unprecedented purposeful collision with an iceberg the HMS United Kingdom has slowly but surely started to take on water. With the number of bizarrely jubilant passengers dancing and waving shipping company flags on the battered upper decks now dwindling and the responsible Captain spotted rowing away on an oddly plush lifeboat, a Mayday call has at last been sent out and a new a crew of senior suicidal first officers from the fateful shipping line has since speeded to the rescue. Curiously enough after boarding the battered ocean liner the new crew took not to patching the ripped hull, but opted instead to use brute force on the already crippled structure damaging the battered and bruised vessel even further. When approached for comment newly instated Captain May could not be reached. Meanwhile the Shipping Company Union's rescue fleet of tow ships still lies waiting a mere 27 n.m. away bewildered and left scratching their heads at the scenes unfolding on the decks of the HMS United Kingdom.

[Eutyphro]

 

In the UK, "new Labour" and "Blairite" are synonymous. And much if your above categorisation simply doesn't apply to many of Corbyn's critics. Owen Smith, Tom Watson... I could continue.

 

The fact that most Labour MP's conformed to the majority of Labour mp's who want Corbyn gone does not automatically make them critics of Corbyn. They might as well just be pragmatists.

 

 

 

 

Er, no I'm not.

http://election-data...e-union-members

 

So your comment that "70% said he was not suitable to be PM" was 'objectively' made up and 'objectively' biased and nonsense.

 

 

 

No, he didn't. In fact to the best of my knowledge exactly none have been expelled from Labour.

Ken Livingstone, Illyas Aziz, Shah Hussain, Miqdad Al-Nuaimi, Terry Kelly, Saleem Mulla and Naz Shah remain suspended to the best of my knowledge.

Vicki Kirby was reinstated.

 

Khadim Hussain quit the party.

So they were all suspended and he explicitly stated many times there is no place for antisemitism in the party. So your claim about his tolerance for antisemitism is tendentious, somewhat slanderous, and really not 'objectively empirically true' like you claim it to be. You sound like Evan Davis.

 

 

 

You've admitted you lack knowledge on the subject, how can you justify that with asserting bias on my part?

I'm confident enough to admit that I'm not very knowledgeable about the history of British election results and the dynamic with Scottish politics. That doesn't automatically make other arguments and views I have about specific instances and ideas irrelevant.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Eutyphro

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

After an unprecedented purposeful collision with an iceberg the HMS United Kingdom has slowly but surely started to take on water. With the number of bizarrely jubilant passengers dancing and waving shipping company flags on the battered upper decks now dwindling and the responsible Captain spotted rowing away on an oddly plush lifeboat, a Mayday call has at last been sent out and a new a crew of senior suicidal first officers from the fateful shipping line has since speeded to the rescue. Curiously enough after boarding the battered ocean liner the new crew took not to patching the ripped hull, but opted instead to use brute force on the already crippled structure damaging the battered and bruised vessel even further. When approached for comment newly instated Captain May could not be reached. Meanwhile the Shipping Company Union's rescue fleet of tow ships still lies waiting a mere 27 n.m. away bemused and left scratching their heads at the scenes unfolding on the decks of the HMS United Kingdom.

 

Do you write Phil Space's column in Private Eye Raavi? This is funny....

 

And Euty.... Why are you still trying to demonstrate exactly what is wrong about every Corbynite? (I cannot be bothered retyping my previous statement, so I'm just quoting it to refresh your memory.)

 

 

'You're all wrong, the system is against us, we're right and Corbyn will lead us to a glorious future'! It is all well and good shouting these things, but that doesn't just give you a free pass into Number 10, nor does it unite a split party to give them the solid foundation they need to grow the grass roots support into a parliamentary majority.

 

I saw those YouGov polls, Sivis posted and they seem right to me. The Labour party, as a collective party, cannot win an election with the current leader steering their way. Not because of his political standings and his good honesty (Again, that's a nice trait and refreshing), but because the majority of swing voters see him in a very different light to the hardcore fanatic. He's not a good Labour leader, not because of personality, because of his character and lack of media charisma. (He's been attending voice coaching sessions and more in building self-confidence to try and bolster his latter flaw, but it just doesn't seem to help.)

 

Owen Smith (sorry, I posted Morgan before) has the same political standings and underlying character as Corbyn but the difference is, he's much more media savvy and able to communicate his message. Plus, he's thrown his hat in the ring from inside the shadow cabinet. Angela Eagle should withdraw as the opponent to Corbyn and let him go for it, he's much more likely to win against Jezza and he's even got a damn good shot of unifying the party behind him afterwards too.

 

Something has to give, and soon.... The Tories are actually getting their business in order and are ready to get moving forwards, Labour is still stuck in neutral and they don't need more problems making the hill start harder.

[Eutyphro]

 

'You're all wrong, the system is against us, we're right and Corbyn will lead us to a glorious future'! It is all well and good shouting these things, but that doesn't just give you a free pass into Number 10, nor does it unite a split party to give them the solid foundation they need to grow the grass roots support into a parliamentary majority.

 

 

I'll repeat something as well then. The world doesn't need leftists who support "bailing out big banks, financial deregulation, low taxes for multinationals, austerity, trade deals that are designed for the ultra rich, aggressive foreign policy, etc.." And Britain doesn't need that either. The left shouldn't throw it's ideals in the garbage to join the establishment like it has done. For the left to have any merit it should stick to principled honest politics. What is tough is that anyone with honest and principled politics will get slandered every other day by the press. That makes it a difficult battle. But that doesn't mean it is a battle that is not worth fighting, and that leftist ideals should be thrown in the garbage out of pure opportunism and careerism.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Eutyphro

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

 

 

'You're all wrong, the system is against us, we're right and Corbyn will lead us to a glorious future'! It is all well and good shouting these things, but that doesn't just give you a free pass into Number 10, nor does it unite a split party to give them the solid foundation they need to grow the grass roots support into a parliamentary majority.

 

 

I'll repeat something as well then. The world doesn't need leftists who support "bailing out big banks, financial deregulation, low taxes for multinationals, austerity, trade deals that are designed for the ultra rich, aggressive foreign policy, etc.." And Britain doesn't need that either. The left shouldn't throw it's ideals in the garbage to join the establishment like it has done. For the left to have any merit it should stick to principled honest politics. What is tough is that anyone with honest and principled politics will get slandered every other day by the press. That makes it a difficult battle. But that doesn't mean it is a battle that is not worth fighting, and that leftist ideals should be thrown in the garbage out of pure opportunism and careerism.

 

 

 

If you want to know the truth, I'm very much Lib Dem, always have been too, plus I read Private Eye and that gives me a much clearer idea of things than mainstream media. I hate Blairites as much as Corbyns' camp do and the Tories are the only slightly below UKIP on my personal 'scum scale'. The Lib Dems might be small right now as a result of Clegg letting then get knobbled with all the bad news during the Coalition Government, but at least that small group is actually pulling together, hasn't split and is trying to work with the other small groups to actually force the required answers out of the Tories, rather than just bickering among themselves.

 

There's my reminder, I am much more center politics then right. So stop suggesting I am anything but....

 

Now, back to the other news of the day.... The new cabinet is taking shape and who is convinced Boris has been given the 'you stuffed it, you fix it' post?