UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion & DIY Home Improvement Thread

[sivispacem]

6 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

I'm not saying Thornton Heath is a reflection of the UK, but I am saying it's my UK 

This means nothing.

 

6 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Notting Hill is a better representation of the UK

I don't think anywhere in London is particularly representative of the wider UK, demographically speaking. A lot of the country outside of the major urban areas is very, very white indeed.

 

6 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

So the General Election in Deceber 2019 wasn't about Brexit

Not solely, no. Quite aside from the fact that Brexit supporting parties received a power percentage of the vote than Brexit hostile parties (45% to 55% respectively), it was far from the only issue on the table and was characterised by Labours frankly awful performance, leadership, policy portfolio and totally noncommittal attitude to the subject of Brexit.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

Well Bender, once the immigration system you back so feverishly, kicks in, at least you know there will be retraining opportunities, as I cannot see the construction industry thriving during a self-inflicted, massive recession....

Your wellies will be perfect for getting muddy, picking fruit and veg, right?

 

Let's just ignore the fact that Priti herself has quietly admitted her own parents wouldn't have likely made it into the UK, eh?

[jpm1]

10 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Why did the UK twice vote for Brexit if that's not what people want?

 

the people voted for Hitler twice too. actually you're the only one into that thread that has difficulties to see the brexit is some far right s...

Edited February 19, 2020 by jpm1

[Raavi]

They should apply those laws ex post facto and deport Patel. T'is only fair. 

[ilovebender.com]

3 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Well Bender, once the immigration system you back so feverishly, kicks in, at least you know there will be retraining opportunities, as I cannot see the construction industry thriving during a self-inflicted, massive recession....

Your wellies will be perfect for getting muddy, picking fruit and veg, right?

 

Let's just ignore the fact that Priti herself has quietly admitted her own parents wouldn't have likely made it into the UK, eh?

 

You haven't said why the UK should keep freedom of movement for people from the EU without sounding like a fool who forgets about people from outside the EU come here as well and that the UK's not in the EU so it makes no sense having the EU's freedom of movement here since this isn't in the EU.

You might fool yourself and think every migrant's from the EU, but that's probably a racism on your part to ignore the contribution by others when you treat an EU migrant like without them there'd be no immigration so somehow should have more of a right here than a non EU migrant based on your tunnel vision of not seeing all the people who do a good job here from outside the EU who don't enjoy freedom of movement.

At least with a non EU migrant, they'd probably have a better understanding of English than someone from the EU, like this one site I remember stopping work and assist with English before.

I buddied up with a man on that job who knew my part of New Jersey (Ocean County, NJ) (I have parts of Pennsylvania and New Jersey I call my parts of), so me and him worked together on that job comparing notes of Seaside Heights and Forked River and stuff, and this old Spanish guy kept on finding us to ask us to read text messages he got from the agency because he couldn't understand English, so we helped - Also, I worked on that job with Columbians, Sri Lankans too and one Albanian who was bragging how he was in the country for 2 weeks before he got that job. In my experience, people from the EU don't tend to work as hard as people from outside the EU - but that's not the point - the point is you're treating non EU migrants like they don't exist when you say crap like without freedom of movement we'd have no immigrants.

 

I personally think it's offensive to non EU migrants here also do a good job to act like they don't exist when clearly they do; they're ignored by people who talk about the EU which is redundant since the conversation's over and people who talk about the EU are clearly biased and ignoring people from Asia, Africa, Latin America, the Middle East who work just as hard doing the same job and are here without freedom of movement.

 

Also, who the Hell is David Schneider and why should anyone care what David Schneider there Tweets?

 

 

54 minutes ago, Raavi said:

They should apply those laws ex post facto and deport Patel. T'is only fair. 

With a name like Raavi, I assume you're Asian.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

35 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You haven't said why the UK should keep freedom of movement for people from the EU 

I don't recall anyone arguing explicitly in favour of this, so it's a bit of a straw man isn't it?

 

Besides, EU citizens have a greater net economic contribution than either non-EU citizens or British citizens, so one reason would be "because free movement is unequivocally economically beneficial".

[ilovebender.com]

1 minute ago, sivispacem said:

I don't recall anyone arguing explicitly in favour of this, so it's a bit of a straw man isn't it?

I'm pretty sure it's what the EU wants, retaining the 4 freedoms including freedom of movement.

It's not what the UK wants so if the EU doesn't budge, the UK'd just have to deal with the EU on WTO terms; not the end of the world.

1 minute ago, sivispacem said:

 

Besides, EU citizens have a greater net economic contribution than either non-EU citizens or British citizens, so one reason would be "because free movement is unequivocally economically beneficial".

How?

[sivispacem]

13 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I'm pretty sure it's what the EU wants, 

Whilst I'm sure many in the EU do want the retention of freedom of movement, the political declaration and withdrawal agreement signed bilaterally rather preclude it, so pretending its still something that the EU are driving for in trade agreements is a red herring.

 

13 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

How?

How what? The antecedent explains the consequent. 

 

The net positive economic impact of EU citizens in the UK is greater than either domestic British citizens or non-EU citizens. Put simply, the proportion of state revenue they contribute through taxation and spending on costed government run services compared to the costs of services supplied by the state is proportionally greater.

 

EU citizens are less likely to be unemployed, less likely to draw down benefits of any kind, and less impactful on services such as the NHS than British nationals. Conversely, their average salaries are roughly the same as those of British citizens so they pay more tax whilst costing the state less.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

14 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I'm pretty sure it's what the EU wants, retaining the 4 freedoms including freedom of movement.

 

In that case I hope the EU returns the favor and imposes a points-based immigration scheme on all UK migrants heading to the EU....

I'm sure the stiff upper lip will come in handy when retirees are refused, because they can't speak the lingo of the country they want to be off to.

 

Quote

It's not what the UK wants so if the EU doesn't budge, the UK'd just have to deal with the EU on WTO terms; not the end of the world.

 

Unless you're low paid, low skilled and expected in the muddy fields every morning at 6am, because it's the only employment opportunity and retraining offer you have left....  

 

Quote

How?

 

I'll leave you with this 2018 article on the subject, from the figures published by the 'Office Of National Statistics.'

https://www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-bb44-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5

 

It's pretty hard reading for Pro-Tories.

[Ned Bingham]

1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

EU citizens are less likely to be unemployed, less likely to draw down benefits of any kind, and less impactful on services such as the NHS than British nationals. Conversely, their average salaries are roughly the same as those of British citizens so they pay more tax whilst costing the state less.

Excellent!  All we (I, really) need do is find some way of harnessing and maximising this EU citizen army to it's full potential so that all native Britons can then retire from work and lead a life of leisure whilst those EU Johnnies do all the work.  That would confer the benefits of the old-style Empire, but contained within the boundaries of Blighty.  Hooray!

[jpm1]

i read an article (that i can't find back unfortunately) saying that the British empire was still at work actually, and pretty good at it. laundering all the black, or grey money of the world. thru a well made tax havens, inherited from the British empire. the guy was saying HSBC got to pay a huge penalty to the US, because of massive money launderings. while the share didn't move because all the shareholders knew what it was all about. the guy was going even farer saying HBSC was originally created for that sole purpose. getting all the British empire dirty money clean. so before critizing a French empiric behavior (like ILB tend to say), you should maybe think a bit. because no one is perfect, and we get more working hand to hand, than against each other. Plus we all know that it's the French who controls the EU thing is just bull. a very poor argument. far right typical, who loves conspiracy theories. French are humans like the others, nothing more, nothing less. if you want to change what's going wrong in Europe, it's certainly not by fleeing away that you'll succeed. i do my little poo, and i flee away no man this is not the good way to get the world changed

 

also don't forget the British who live in the EU, and work there. the things are going to get complicated for them too. for the retired for example it's gonna be quite a nightmare, as they probably won't be able to get their pension paid anymore. the result is that lot of British are simply thinking of becoming French here where i live. no doubt this is a good point for the brexit . actually as a French i'm happy to see some British becoming French, but what a c..ts move from your fellow citizens..

typical far right again. i do my s.., and no matter what happens i leave it to you

Edited February 19, 2020 by jpm1

[ilovebender.com]

4 hours ago, jpm1 said:

 

 

also don't forget the British who live in the EU, and work there. the things are going to get complicated for them too. for the retired for example it's gonna be quite a nightmare, as they probably won't be able to get their pension paid anymore. the result is that lot of British are simply thinking of becoming French here where i live. no doubt this is a good point for the brexit . actually as a French i'm happy to see some British becoming French, but what a c..ts move from your fellow citizens..

typical far right again. i do my s.., and no matter what happens i leave it to you

Far right isn't Brexit, and you've got to stop demonising somebody for being Conservative by saying it's all Far Right to not want to be in the EU.

[jpm1]

just a question did you even heard a far rightist saying i'm a far rightist. far rightists considers themselves anything but far right. and as we discussed before, this is the same with far left. Great britain is gonna pay the high price for brexit, you can't hear it, but you'll see it

[ilovebender.com]

1 hour ago, jpm1 said:

just a question did you even heard a far rightist saying i'm a far rightist. far rightists considers themselves anything but far right. and as we discussed before, this is the same with far left. Great britain is gonna pay the high price for brexit, you can't hear it, but you'll see it

You compare Brexit to a European idea of the far right and remark about 1939 likening Brexit to the rise of Nationalism, while ironically living in the EU, which some could argue is the Fourth Reich for German dominance.

What happens if WTO is we'll go by WTO and if the UK hasn't signed a deal with anyone, EU, US, India, China, anyone... then it's No Deal WTO Article 24 Brexit.

This ensures European Communities (know yourself EU) aren't allowed to impose a high cost on a leaving member until that member finds a new deal - For 10 years, since February '2020'.

 

The new immigration policy was revealed today

It would be nice to have a deal with the EU that doesn't involve immigration - If other countries can have it, why not UK? Why in the EU's mind for a deal does UK have to follow EU rules more closely? If you say geopolitics, I say 'no deal nasty thorn in EU's side Brexit' 'undercut undercut undercut!' - btw, forum.

It's just not fair, either treat the UK like Canada or treat the UK like Singapore, your choice EU, just don't treat us like we're still in the EU.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

You compare Brexit to a European idea of the far right and remark about 1939 likening Brexit to the rise of Nationalism, while ironically living in the EU, which some could argue is the Fourth Reich for German dominance.

What happens if WTO is we'll go by WTO and if the UK hasn't signed a deal with anyone, EU, US, India, China, anyone... then it's No Deal WTO Article 24 Brexit.

This ensures European Communities (know yourself EU) aren't allowed to impose a high cost on a leaving member until that member finds a new deal - For 10 years, since February '2020'.

 

'GATT' (not WTO) Article 24 is a nice red herring, individuals like Jacob Rees Mogg and Richard Tice have been flouting on about for ages....

The reality is far more complicated.  To quote :
 

"The point here is that interim agreements under GATT Article 24 are possible, but there are simpler ways of doing it. For the UK to present an interim agreement to the WTO, it would have to overcome those three hurdles. They are:

1. The UK would have to reach agreement with the EU. The UK could not do this unilaterally. So this isn’t exactly “no deal”.
2. That agreement would have to include a plan and timetable for achieving the final agreement. And it would have to have a sufficient amount of detail, including what the final agreement would look like, because …
3. … the WTO membership could demand changes, if they weren’t convinced that the plan could be achieved within about 10 years. The UK and EU would have to accept those changes or scrap the agreement. (This doesn’t apply to free trade agreements that are not interim.)

That’s a pretty blunt “secret weapon”.

Clearly an interim agreement cannot be a single sheet saying: “Hey, WTO! We’re negotiating a free trade agreement. It may take 10 years. While we’re doing that, we might violate some of your non-discrimination rules.”

Nor would the political declaration accompanying the Withdrawal Agreement qualify as an interim agreement since it isn’t legally an agreement.

But if the UK and EU can conclude an interim deal that qualifies, they might as well notify it to the WTO as a fully-fledged agreement to remain in force until a replacement is agreed. (In any case, politically it’s unlikely the EU would even consider an interim agreement without a withdrawal agreement plus backstop as well.)

That applies whether the free trade deal is the present proposed Withdrawl Agreement and declaration, or a one-pager like Bartels’. Or it could be any other form of free trade agreement or customs union. It could even just say the UK and EU are continuing with present arrangements.

The only situation that might justify an interim agreement, with its three hurdles, is if the UK and EU decided to exclude a sector such as agriculture temporarily while they negotiated how to include it. Without an interim agreement that would violate another condition of GATT Article 24, that a free trade agreement must cover “substantially all the trade”.

But that’s not what the hard Brexiters have in mind at all."

 

To read the full breakdown (not that you will) : https://uktradeforum.net/2019/01/26/why-claims-about-a-wto-article-24-interim-agreement-are-a-red-herring/

 

Quote

 

The new immigration policy was revealed today

It would be nice to have a deal with the EU that doesn't involve immigration - If other countries can have it, why not UK? Why in the EU's mind for a deal does UK have to follow EU rules more closely? If you say geopolitics, I say 'no deal nasty thorn in EU's side Brexit' 'undercut undercut undercut!' - btw, forum.

It's just not fair, either treat the UK like Canada or treat the UK like Singapore, your choice EU, just don't treat us like we're still in the EU.

 

Well, since the UK is going points based, there's no reason why the EU shouldn't return the favour, ensuring plebs lke you are kept away from their employment.  Besides, Japanese wouldn't net you 10 points anywhere there, nor would retirees be welcome either, given they seldom speak the lingo of where they want to be ex-pats.

And again, the ramifications are far worse than you think, even for those that would qualify, this is a valid position to consider :

 

Complete ignorance of families and friends in a points based system, so a very large proportion of the worlds' population won't be considering the UK.

[sivispacem]

7 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Far right isn't Brexit

Brexit isn't a solely far right phenomenon, but the far right do overwhelmingly support Brexit.

[ilovebender.com]

9 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

 

 

Well, since the UK is going points based, there's no reason why the EU shouldn't return the favour

Well duh, you sure do state the obvious.

 

If an American needs a passport and a visa to live and work in the Schengen, no reason why a Brit shouldn't as well.

9 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

 

Imagine if you're a Lithuanian cleaner or a Lativian fork lift driver more like.

They can settle where they want; in the EU, but this isn't the EU is it.

That's Britain's promise on immigration, and don't you forget it.

I don't remember anywhere saying doctors and nurses weren't worth more points than low skilled workers.

This point based system comes from New Labour era Tony Blair, and also, if a Latvian fork lift driver and a Lithuanian cleaner or even a Bulgarian car wash attendant wouldn't have the right to settle in the US or Australia or anywhere that's not the EU; then why should low skilled EU citizens have the right to settle in the UK?

Do you even understand the concept of a points based system keeping out unskilled foreign workers?

I know the EU opens the doors to these people, but that's because they've never had it so good; meanwhile, that's the EU, this is not the EU, so these low skilled people won't be allowed to settle in the UK like it's their own, because their own is EU, and this the real world.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

9 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well duh, you sure do state the obvious.

 

If an American needs a passport and a visa to live and work in the Schengen, no reason why a Brit shouldn't as well.

 

Dreaming about GATT 24 lasted all of one post?  That was quick....

Oh well, back to cherry-picking for Croydon's best debater.  But you're ignoring the fact an individual like you wouldn't score 70 points to even manage entering the UK....  Mind you, signing a GATT 24 agreement would ensure the transitional period, with all the benefits of EU membership, would last another 10 years.  No way anything else will be considered, including a ridiculous and unworkable, points based immigration system.

[ilovebender.com]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

Dreaming about GATT 24 lasted all of one post?  That was quick....

Oh well, back to cherry-picking for Croydon's best debater.  But you're ignoring the fact an individual like you wouldn't score 70 points to even manage entering the UK....  Mind you, signing a GATT 24 agreement would ensure the transitional period, with all the benefits of EU membership, would last another 10 years.  No way anything else will be considered, including a ridiculous and unworkable, points based immigration system.

whatever @IGLOO WHITE stop trying to sing the merits of the EU to a country that's not in the EU.

You wished you were from Croydon.

 

Don't even think to say EU people should treat the UK like it's their own either (that would be like saying they should treat America like their own). Stopping this is what Brexit was about, to keep low skilled uneducated people from having the automatic right to settle in the UK.

Who does the EU think they are? India, Jamaica, Hong Kong? No British Overseas is the EU.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[jpm1]

22 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well duh, you sure do state the obvious.

 

If an American needs a passport and a visa to live and work in the Schengen, no reason why a Brit shouldn't as well.

Imagine if you're a Lithuanian cleaner or a Lativian fork lift driver more like.

They can settle where they want; in the EU, but this isn't the EU is it.

That's Britain's promise on immigration, and don't you forget it.

I don't remember anywhere saying doctors and nurses weren't worth more points than low skilled workers.

i do hope britain doesn't need immigration for fork lifting. i did a similar job once, it took me 5 min chrono to learn it

you quote immigration in the UK, but you forget happily immigration outside the UK. there are lot of British working, or retired outside the UK. you totally occult them

again it's always easier to critizise, and flee away, than trying to solve the problem. we all know there's a problem, and unfair competition on the working market between different EU countries. but it's not by fleing away that you're gonna solve the problem

you talk about trade agreements with India. i wonder how the British industry will compete with Asian slaves factories

Edited February 20, 2020 by jpm1

[ilovebender.com]

6 minutes ago, jpm1 said:

i do hope britain doesn't need immigration for fork lifting. i did a similar job once, it took me 5 min chrono to learn it

you quote immigration in the UK, but you forget happily immigration outside the UK. there are lot of British working, or retired outside the UK. you totally occult them

People from the EU come to the UK and wash cars, clean houses and drive a fork lift.

I know 2 people who live and work in the UK driving a fork lift; One from the Philippines who immigrated with his family and his mother is the head nurse at the local hospital and he became British in 2010, passport and all, and this other man from Latvia who's Latvian, isn't British, came when he was an adult, and now he's here, driving a fork lift when he's not off sick, after freedom of movement ends, there should be no adults coming to the UK from the EU just to do a low skilled job.

I think someone needs 70 points to qualify in this new system or something.

Being a low skilled person from the EU shouldn't give them enough points like if they were a high skilled person or perhaps worked where there was a shortage.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

5 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

whatever @IGLOO WHITE stop trying to sing the merits of the EU to a country that's not in the EU.

You wished you were from Croydon.

 

No, you're the one singing the praises of non-EU membership, without a single clue of how that translates into reality or how impractical it really is becoming.

 

And I'm really flattered that you re-iterated the notion I was that account, but I don't use VPN, I try not to since it really doesn't look great on here.  We have enough abusers and haters on GTAF hiding behind VPNs.

 

5 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

 

Don't even think to say EU people should treat the UK like it's their own either (that would be like saying they should treat America like their own). Stopping this is what Brexit was about, to keep low skilled uneducated people from having the automatic right to settle in the UK.

Who does the EU think they are? India, Jamaica, Hong Kong? No British Overseas is the EU.

 

And let's look at the actual notion of where these '8.5 million economically inactive,' UK citizens are, based on the Governments' own ONS figures....

 

By the employment figures, only 1.4 million are currently unemployed, so that's a massive hole in the figures.  Forcing groups like the 1.9 million home carers into work, which leaves an even larger strain on the social care system, further aggravating that system by increasing demand on an already strained and very short staffed industry that's reliant on the very low paid immigrant workers that wouldn't get access due to the restraints of the points based system.  In effect, you'll send a home carer looking after a family member to care for another person who would have been home cared by their family, but their carer has been forced to work to care for another family, a Catch 22 of epic proportions and a complete waste of time and money.

[ilovebender.com]

15 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

No, you're the one singing the praises of non-EU membership, without a single clue of how that translates into reality or how impractical it really is becoming.

Get back to me when you accept the EU isn't the world and life exists outside of the EU.

Quote

 

And I'm really flattered that you re-iterated the notion I was that account, but I don't use VPN, I try not to since it really doesn't look great on here.  We have enough abusers and haters on GTAF hiding behind VPNs.

Whatever, @IGLOO WHITE you could say what you want about using a VPN, but that could be you shoveling the bull'.

Quote

 

 

And let's look at the actual notion of where these '8.5 million economically inactive,' UK citizens are, based on the Governments' own ONS figures....

 

By the employment figures, only 1.4 million are currently unemployed, so that's a massive hole in the figures.  Forcing groups like the 1.9 million home carers into work, which leaves an even larger strain on the social care system, further aggravating that system by increasing demand on an already strained and very short staffed industry that's reliant on the very low paid immigrant workers that wouldn't get access due to the restraints of the points based system.  In effect, you'll send a home carer looking after a family member to care for another person who would have been home cared by their family, but their carer has been forced to work to care for another family, a Catch 22 of epic proportions and a complete waste of time and money.

If America and Australia can do it, so can UK. You'd have to start thinking of the UK like it's not in the EU; you wouldn't expect America or Australia to welcome someone without skills or connection to settle in their country; why would you want them to be able to settle in the UK? What do you think we are, EU? lol

If you're from outside the EU and have no education or skill, you can't settle in the UK (that's how the world works); now if you're from the EU and you have no education or skill, you can't settle in the UK (because this isn't the EU and that's how the world works).

Stop treating people from the EU like they're from Hong Kong, because people from Hong Kong might have this right, but people from the EU do not.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Get back to me when you accept the EU isn't the world and life exists outside of the EU.

 

Under your wild imagination, that's when Kent becomes the largest truck stop in Europe and you're busily retraining to pick fruit and vegetables in the UK's muddy fields, rather than mowing your lawn on a Sunday.

 

2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Whatever, @IGLOO WHITE you could say what you want about using a VPN, but that could be you shoveling the bull'.

 

The one thing I've never done, in any post aimed at you, is lie.  It's always been my honest opinion or factual evidence.

 

2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

If America and Australia can do it, so can UK. You'd have to start thinking of the UK like it's not in the EU; you wouldn't expect America or Australia to welcome someone without skills or connection to settle in their country; why would you want them to be able to settle in the UK? What do you think we are, EU? lol

 

I'm just pointing out the massive holes in the claims made by the Tory Government you elected.  Low paid doesn't always mean low skilled or non-essential industries.  This points based immigration policy is destined to become nothing but a hollow shout for votes.  It will lower immigration figures and be a vote winner there, but won't solve any of the flaws that created the mess in the first place, only make things worse.

[ilovebender.com]

It occurs to me that Labour are against equal rights at work, and think disabled people shouldn't be allowed to work.

Did you know it's a form of discrimination in the UK to refuse a disabled person a job if they can do the job.

Labour thinks disabled people shouldn't work.

I think high earners with special needs ought to not get disability allowance if they're on the property ladder in careers driving new cars. Keep that disability allowance for those who cannot work because of their disabilities. More disability allowance money for those who need it; not for those working good jobs to supplement their income.

It should be means tested and capped so those who earn a certain amount won't be eligible.

 

I'm sure some disabled people can go to work, just because someone's disabled doesn't mean they can't get a job.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

1 minute ago, ilovebender.com said:

It occurs to me that Labour are against equal rights at work, and think disabled people shouldn't be allowed to work.

Did you know it's a form of discrimination in the UK to refuse a disabled person a job if they can do the job.

Labour thinks disabled people shouldn't work.

 

I'm sure David Blunkett would think highly of you, let alone the late Stephen Hawking.

 

1 minute ago, ilovebender.com said:

I think high earners with special needs ought to not get disability allowance if they're on the property ladder in careers driving new cars.

 

My my.....  You really have no clue about the Motability Scheme, do you?

 

1 minute ago, ilovebender.com said:

Keep that disability allowance for those who cannot work because of their disabilities. More disability allowance money for those who need it; not for those working good jobs to supplement their income.

 

Universal Credit claimants (which working disabled people are being moved to), include clauses for income support and so, working disabled do get paid less, although their PIP is secondary and that includes Motability etc, where their fancy new cars come from....

[ilovebender.com]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

I'm sure David Blunkett would think highly of you, let alone the late Stephen Hawking.

 

 

My my.....  You really have no clue about the Motability Scheme, do you?

 

 

Universal Credit claimants (which working disabled people are being moved to), include clauses for income support and so, working disabled do get paid less, although their PIP is secondary and that includes Motability etc, where their fancy new cars come from....

So all this bull' about Nasty Tories forcing disabled people to work, you agree with.

 

Times I've seen stories of people kicking up a fuss when they're told they're fit for work, so should be looking for a job, times these people have all blamed the Tories, times I've seen Jeremy Corbyn defend these people by saying they shouldn't be forced to look for work.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

Just now, ilovebender.com said:

So all this bull' about Nasty Tories forcing disabled people to work, you agree with.

If a disabled person has the necessary skills and the employer is willing to adapt their business / work environment to employ that person, let the disabled person work.

 

The vast majority of disabled people would work, if they could find a suitable employer / an education site willing to train them the necessary skills.  The Nasty Tory mantra here is more about them trying to change Working rights to deny disabled people the right to work by scrapping the EU working rights bills that have protected disabled people in work. 

[ilovebender.com]

1 minute ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

If a disabled person has the necessary skills and the employer is willing to adapt their business / work environment to employ that person, let the disabled person work.

 

The vast majority of disabled people would work, if they could find a suitable employer / an education site willing to train them the necessary skills.  The Nasty Tory mantra here is more about them trying to change Working rights to deny disabled people the right to work by scrapping the EU working rights bills that have protected disabled people in work. 

It's not about the EU. What if UK does what it said it'll do and have a new better UK standard?

And we agree, if someone can work, they should work.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

29 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

It's not about the EU. What if UK does what it said it'll do and have a new better UK standard?

And we agree, if someone can work, they should work.

 

But the system has been bought into disrepute with constant failings in assessments (using ATOS staff for trying to assess medical suitability for instance).  There's many, many cases of claimants deemed fit to work because they were incorrectly assessed and a successful appeals process of 60%, just shows how incorrect and humiliating the claims process is.  Most people don't understand just how broad, varied and limiting various disabilities can be, I know of multiple people who look fit for work, while their mobility is limited to the point they never could work, but their mind is razor sharp.

 

When people who live less than a few months due to terminal conditions end up being deemed fit for work, then results in them being awarded benefits posthumously after their family appealed to pay for the funeral, you know there's something wrong.