UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion & DIY Home Improvement Thread

[sivispacem]

Just now, ilovebender.com said:

You believed that?

Yes, because it's the only way they're likely to remain in power after 2024. At the end of the day, their only long term interest is to remain in power, and given support for them declined across whole swathes of the South and South East, keeping their new Northern chums onside is the only way they'll stay on the merry-go-round.

[Svip]

4 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You believed that?

 

Sure, they lent The Tories their votes, and any Tory who wanted to retain them would suddenly increase spending up there....

So you are saying Tories are not to be trusted?  Finally you said something that made sense.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Svip

[ilovebender.com]

20 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Yes, because it's the only way they're likely to remain in power after 2024. At the end of the day, their only long term interest is to remain in power, and given support for them declined across whole swathes of the South and South East, keeping their new Northern chums onside is the only way they'll stay on the merry-go-round.

I heard we could have a deal signed with America by September 2020 to be ready for January 1st 2021.

I don't think it matters what happens after that; well before the fixed term parliament act ends on this PM.

This government with its majority will shape our future now during this historical time we're living in. Yay democracy.

Chances are they'd try and solidify the country they're forging now so it doesn't matter who's running the show in 2024.

 

19 minutes ago, Svip said:

So you are saying Tories are not to be trusted?  Finally you said something that made sense.

I can trust them because I'm a tax haven wanting card carrying Tory who believes in fairness and tax avoidance.

I never said The North can trust them, but since Jeremy Corbyn was so toxic, it was like Christmas come early for us.

I'd love for The North to get what they want.

But it's not exactly top priority given getting Brexit done first.

Edited January 10, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[ilovebender.com]

What do you think the North did @Svip?

 

Vote Tory on their promise to regenerate them? (Probably).

Vote Tory to get UK out of the EU? (More probably voted Tory for this reason given they actually voted for Brexit in 2016).

Vote Tory as a f*ck you/protest vote/fear of Corbyn getting elected? (That's why people voted Tory apparently, as they just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Corbyn or Corbynism).

Edited January 10, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

44 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I can trust them because I'm a tax haven wanting card carrying Tory who believes in fairness and tax avoidance.

Ah, an uneducated manual labourer flag-waving for the party most likely to f*ck him in the arse sans lubrication. I do love watching turkeys vote for Christmas.

[Pesos]

22 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Ah, an uneducated manual labourer flag-waving for the party most likely to f*ck him in the arse sans lubrication. I do love watching turkeys vote for Christmas.

Seems like he's gone in with a big bite of the ol trickle down economics hook. lol

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

What do you think the North did?

 

Vote Tory on their promise to regenerate them? (Probably).

 

Given how the Tories treat areas away from London, it's a token attempt to shroud the fact they're getting nothing else.  The Northern Rail franchising is about the only thing that's obviously happening, but it's not going to improve things, just leave them as crap as possible, without the investment required (including several, obvious plans and possible reinstatements) because that's all disappearing down the HS2 cash pit.  So it's likely little will change north of Birmingham as I bet the lines further North are quietly cancelled.

 

Quote

Vote Tory to get UK out of the EU? (More probably voted Tory for this reason given they actually voted for Brexit in 2016).

 

They've been told that, because that's what influence the media has. Most of the media has happily peddled the Tory message that it's all everyone else's fault, the EU, immigrants, Corbyn, Labour....  It's never the UK's, or the Governments' fault, that's too complex to process for a lot of people.

 

 

Quote

Vote Tory as a f*ck you/protest vote/fear of Corbyn getting elected? (That's why people voted Tory apparently, as they just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Corbyn or Corbynism).

 

It's ironic that the right wing Scum doesn't do well in Liverpool as that area didn't see any of the encroachment of Tory swing and has stayed steadfastly Labour.  I guess it shows just how biased the media reporting has been during the election.

[Ned Bingham]

The Royal Family is political after a fashion isn't it?

 

Regarding H&M, the D&D of Sussex. Am I being overly cynical to suspect that the D&D's recent mental elf furore and the threat to sue certain British newspapers was merely a prelude, a feint, to the announcement of the royal couple's intention to quit Blighty and move to the more photogenic climes of LA or the chilly wholesomeness of Canookland?

 

Megan must have known (assuming she'd done her homework) what she was getting into when she agreed to join the cast of Downton Abbey-Windsor.  The Cynic wonders if it was merely a cunning career move?

 

Or maybe the Sussex's move is part of a grander, overarching move on the part of House of Windsor to pull the UK closer to the USA by placing the Sussexes onto every conceivable American chat show and filling every US tabloid gossip column with their anguished  mental elf dramas?

 

The Cynic awaits with indifferent breath.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

4 minutes ago, Ned Bingham said:

The Royal Family is political after a fashion isn't it?

 

Regarding H&M, the D&D of Sussex. Am I being overly cynical to suspect that the D&D's recent mental elf furore and the threat to sue certain British newspapers was merely a prelude, a feint, to the announcement of the royal couple's intention to quit Blighty and move to the more photogenic climes of LA or the chilly wholesomeness of Canookland?

 

Megan must have known (assuming she'd done her homework) what she was getting into when she agreed to join the cast of Downton Abbey-Windsor.  The Cynic wonders if it was merely a cunning career move?

 

Or maybe the Sussex's move is part of a grander, overarching move on the part of House of Windsor to pull the UK closer to the USA by placing the Sussexes onto every conceivable American chat show and filling every US tabloid gossip column with their anguished  mental elf dramas?

 

The Cynic awaits with indifferent breath.

 

The right wing papers have savaged Megan since she was first pictured on Harry's arm, partly because she's a divorcee, but also because of her heritage, nationality and skin colour.  It's no shock to me they're changing their role and moving on, I hope they make it work and can stick two fingers up at their critics.

My only complaint is, they didn't really consult Brenda before doing this.  I think she would have been far more accommodating to their position and helped smooth the transition.

[ilovebender.com]

6 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

Given how the Tories treat areas away from London, it's a token attempt to shroud the fact they're getting nothing else.  The Northern Rail franchising is about the only thing that's obviously happening, but it's not going to improve things, just leave them as crap as possible, without the investment required at all (including several, obvious plans and possible reinstatements, that's all disappearing down the HS2 cash pit.  So it's likely little will change north of Birmingham as I bet the lines further North are quietly cancelled.

 

And?

Will this fix Southern Rail?

Will trains to London Victoria or London Bridge via Norbury or via Crystal Palace be better?

Will they decrease the fare (for a change)?

Given how the rest of England is feels about London, why should London care about the rest of England?

 

Quote

They've been told that, because that's what influence the media has. Most of the media has happily peddled the Tory message that it's all everyone else's fault, the EU, immigrants, Corbyn, Labour....  It's never the UK's, or the Governments' fault, that's too complex to process for a lot of people.

What do you mean blame the UK? You're upset because the Tories never said it was UK's fault?

The people who voted Brexit are the same people who lent Tories their vote, so how do you think blaming them for Brexit would have been?

"vote Tory, btw, it's your fault we're in this."

 

 

Quote

 

 

It's ironic that the right wing Scum doesn't do well in Liverpool as that area didn't see any of the encroachment of Tory swing and has stayed steadfastly Labour.  I guess it shows just how biased the media reporting has been during the election.

The right wing Scum... you sound like a child.

'stop saying everything's so cryptofacist!'.

"Stop saying everything's right wing Scum!" @Uncle Sikee Atric

 

Liverpool, a land not really known for its class or sophistication; If I'm blunt, it's known for Scousers. If they stayed loyal to Corbynism, I'm not surprised.  So what point did you make? Liverpool voted Labour, big win? IDK. Maybe they never got the media reports into Corbyn because they don't watch the news or read newspapers up there? IDK. I'm not surprised as I said, to hear they stayed loyal to Corbyn.

Edited January 10, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[ilovebender.com]

4 hours ago, Ned Bingham said:

The Royal Family is political after a fashion isn't it?...

Yawn...

 

Wake me up when the UK state buys me a mansion and a fancy car and a title.

 

You ever been to Buckingham Palace?

I love the Royals (well, I don't hate them); but the life they live is pretty ritzy (to say the least).

Why can't the UK state do these nice things for me? - so; yawn.

I honestly don't care what the Royals do just because I'm not a Royal or some Royalist sycophant.

I've seen home decors full of crap with their faces painted on displayed with pride in some modest homes, I can do nothing but silently feel glad that that's not me - but it's their homes, if they want to be Royalists, so be it.

 

As for the economics of it all.

It's said the Royals cost £350m per year and generate £2bn which is still peanuts to the UK that is worth £2tn, but a profit's a profit nonetheless.

Edited January 10, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

21 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

And?

Will this fix Southern Rail?

Will trains to London Victoria or London Bridge via Norbury or via Crystal Palace be better?

Will they decrease the fare (for a change)?

Given how the rest of England is feels about London, why should London care about the rest of England?

Since London passengers get £419 each in extra investment, no wonder the rest of the UK feels a bit hard done by when it comes to public transport investment.  You get the benefit, we sure don't.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/01/transport-spending-gap-london-north-of-england-ippr

 

21 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

 

What do you mean blame the UK? You're upset because the Tories never said it was UK's fault?

The people who voted Brexit are the same people who lent Tories their vote, so how do you think blaming them for Brexit would have been?

"vote Tory, btw, it's your fault England we're in this."

 

Vote Tory, because we're never wrong and you're alright right! 

Such a selfish opinion, but pretty much how they pitch themselves at every election.

 

21 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Liverpool, a land not really known for its class or sophistication; If I'm blunt, it's known for Scousers. If they stayed loyal to Corbynism, I'm not surprised.  So what point did you make? Liverpool voted Labour, big win? IDK. Maybe they never got the media reports into Corbyn because they don't watch the news or read newspapers up there? IDK. I'm not surprised as I said, to hear they stayed loyal to Corbyn.

 

Liverpool does have one benefit....

The 'Scum' in this case is a reference to the Daily Rag, The Sun!  Due to the Hillsborough boycott (upheld by both teams in the city as a sign of solidarity), that rag never got a chance to 'educate' their readership.  The result is the Labour stronghold no amount of Tory bluster can shift, because a key pillar of their support is selectively kept away from the public.

Boris ended up with egg on his face in front of Liverpool after the infamous Spectator article upsetting the family of Ken Bigly, the Hillsborough Victims and the entire city in 2004.  I still recall his grovelling apology on Radio City a few days later, partly because I was in the City, heard it live and couldn't stop laughing for days afterwards.... 

You've fallen into Boris' trap by the way, assuming what Scousers and Liverpool are like from the position of a Southerner.  It's nothing of the sort and one of the most modern, cosmopolitan cities in the UK.  The image you share is from the depression and shame during the late 70's / early 80's, when Thatcher had a good go at killing the city, and the Toxteth riots were the image everyone shared.

[ilovebender.com]

6 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Since London passengers get £419 each in extra investment, no wonder the rest of the UK feels a bit hard done by when it comes to public transport investment.  You get the benefit, we sure don't.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/01/transport-spending-gap-london-north-of-england-ippr

Do you think this is random? Don't you know what London is and what London makes?

London's this world city huge metropolitan in the UK; the next best thing is Birmingham which is duller and dead at 6 pm than West Norwood is at 1 am.

Birmingham's not even in the same league as London; New York City is, Tokyo is, but Birmingham's got the title of UK's second city because nothing else has; but Birmingham and London aren't really comparable due to London's gigantic size and contribution being so titanic when compared - so, do you think it's a coincidence that more investment's spent on London? (London is UK's first city, but it's way a head of Birmingham, which is like an English city, not a world city). Of course, this justifies the investment London gets.

 

Quote

 

 

Vote Tory, because we're never wrong and you're alright right! 

Such a selfish opinion, but pretty much how they pitch themselves at every election.

 

Quote

 

Liverpool does have one benefit....

The 'Scum' in this case is a reference to the Daily Rag, The Sun!  Due to the Hillsborough boycott (upheld by both teams in the city as a sign of solidarity), that rag never got a chance to 'educate' their readership.  The result is the Labour stronghold no amount of Tory bluster can shift, because a key pillar of their support is selectively kept away from the public.

Boris ended up with egg on his face in front of Liverpool after the infamous Spectator article upsetting the family of Ken Bigly, the Hillsborough Victims and the entire city in 2004.  I still recall his grovelling apology on Radio City a few days later, partly because I was in the City, heard it live and couldn't stop laughing for days afterwards.... 

You've fallen into Boris' trap by the way, assuming what Scousers and Liverpool are like from the position of a Southerner.  It's nothing of the sort and one of the most modern, cosmopolitan cities in the UK.  The image you share is from the depression and shame during the late 70's / early 80's, when Thatcher had a good go at killing the city, and the Toxteth riots were the image everyone shared.

So? Victory for Liverpool? What's your point?

 

Liverpool, known for The Beatles (technically no more but still are loved), Brookside (no more) and Purple Aki (probably at large). Why support Liverpool F.C when I ain't Irish or from Liverpool and have Crystal Palace/Selhurst Park around the corner?

 

Thatcher killed the coal mining industry in the UK, which was 30 years ahead of the curve. She knew it was no good then, and in 2020, we know it too. Good riddance to that outdated industry is all I can say. I mean, have you not heard of the 0 emissions target we have today. Imagine what that'll be like if we still had a coal industry.

Edited January 11, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

10 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Thatcher killed the coal mining industry in the UK, which was 30 years ahead of the curve. She knew it was no good then, and in 2020, we know it too. Good riddance to that outdated industry is all I can say. I mean, have you not heard of the 0 emissions target we have today. Imagine what that'll be like if we still had a coal industry.

 

There's a fence around the tree within the courtyard of the Chelsea Hospital, where Thatcher's ashes lay, to stop people pissing on them in protest and hatred for the woman....

There's a time before the miner's strike in the mid-80's, when Maggie decided the entire decline of the North and the recession was perfectly justified, to enable growth in the south east.  The Specials might have written 'Ghost Town,' about the decline in the black country, but the entire country was undergoing the same horror.  Liverpool and the Toxteth riots are from this period of her illustrious reign.

-----

 

Here I am, educating you about recent British History once again....

[ilovebender.com]

6 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

There's a fence around the tree within the courtyard of the Chelsea Hospital, where Thatcher's ashes lay, to stop people pissing on them in protest and hatred for the woman....

 

 

You quite literally reminded me of this life's goal of mine to piss on Karl Marx's grave (just because I can).

He's burried in North London somewhere.

 

I probably am going to piss on Karl Marx's grave one day, just saying.

 

..

I mean, I just want to say

"I pissed on Karl Marx's grave"

and for that to be true.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Raavi]

"When asked what his life's goal was, the construction labourer from Thornton Heath wearing a ragged t-shirt and clutching a plastic Poundland bag motioned to his unmentionables and blurted out he wished to (sic) piss on Karl Marx's grave"

[ilovebender.com]

2 hours ago, Raavi said:

"When asked what his life's goal was, the construction labourer from Thornton Heath wearing a ragged t-shirt and clutching a plastic Poundland bag motioned to his unmentionables and blurted out he wished to (sic) piss on Karl Marx's grave"

Right...

 

Apparently there's a fee to visit Karl Marx's grave, gotta love the irony there.

Apparently people urinate on it all the time, and there's a puddle of urine there constantly;

I guess it's a thing to do in London, see the sights, piss on Karl Marx's grave, y'know, the usual.

 

 

3 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Since London passengers get £419 each in extra investment, no wonder the rest of the UK feels a bit hard done by when it comes to public transport investment.  You get the benefit, we sure don't.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/01/transport-spending-gap-london-north-of-england-ippr

 

Are you suggesting that London and The North are somehow equal?

Why shouldn't London get more investment?

Quit moaning about London having more money spent on it.

Edited January 10, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[make total destroy]

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

You quite literally reminded me of this life's goal of mine to piss on Karl Marx's grave (just because I can).

He's burried in North London somewhere.

 

I probably am going to piss on Karl Marx's grave one day, just saying.

 

..

I mean, I just want to say

"I pissed on Karl Marx's grave"

and for that to be true.

 

you into watersports?

[sivispacem]

2 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Why shouldn't London get more investment?

Strategically speaking having so much industry and capital (pardon the pun) concentrated within London is a really poor idea.

 

Generally speaking, concentrating rather than divesting economic and strategic power within a single city or area limits resilience and promotes partisanship and instability.

 

We would be better off following a model akin to that of other developed nations where distinct regional locations operated as hubs for different disciplines. 

[ilovebender.com]

1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

Strategically speaking having so much industry and capital (pardon the pun) concentrated within London is a really poor idea.

 

Generally speaking, concentrating rather than divesting economic and strategic power within a single city or area limits resilience and promotes partisanship and instability.

 

We would be better off following a model akin to that of other developed nations where distinct regional locations operated as hubs for different disciplines. 

You're an idiot.

 

Why fix something that isn't broken?

[sivispacem]

43 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You're an idiot

Idiocy would be actively encouraging a system in which the overwhelming majority of the economic and strategic power of a 250,000 square kilometre nation state is condensed into a 28 square kilometre space. From a disaster recovery perspective it's about as stupid a decision as you can make.

 

I know it's a shocking notion for entitled Londoners, but divesting power and economic functions away from the capital, as is increasingly the model in quite literally every other developed nation on earth, is inarguably a good thing. We're currently in a position where a single medium yield nuclear weapon will drop our national GDP down to the level of Ecuador.

[ilovebender.com]

15 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Idiocy would be actively encouraging a system in which the overwhelming majority of the economic and strategic power of a 250,000 square kilometre nation state is condensed into a 28 square kilometre space. From a disaster recovery perspective it's about as stupid a decision as you can make.

Since when did we use kilometres? You mean square mile (get it right).

 

Quote

I know it's a shocking notion for entitled Londoners,

Not really, it's more laughable? Seriously, why should people invest time and money fixing something that's not broken?

The system works, and if other parts of England feel left behind, that's on them. London's the heartbeat of Britain keeping this country going.

 

Quote

 

but divesting power and economic functions away from the capital, as is increasingly the model in quite literally every other developed nation on earth, is inarguably a good thing. We're currently in a position where a single medium yield nuclear weapon will drop our national GDP down to the level of Ecuador.

So, your argument to move things away from London comes from the highly unlikely event of having nuclear warheads dropped on London?

Edited January 11, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

26 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Since when did we use kilometres? You mean square mile (get it right).

Road signs might be imperial, but just about everyone I know uses metric for pretty much everything else.  Area isn't a roadsign (unless you're talking about fields, but they're hectares).

 

26 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Not really, it's more laughable? Seriously, why should people invest time and money fixing something that's not broken?

The system works, and if other parts of England feel left behind, that's on them. London's the heartbeat of Britain keeping this country going.

Population density....

 

Since there's a hell of a lot of commuters cramming into the city, from many tens of miles away, there's a problem in that London is struggling to pack more people in.  They might go home in an evening, but it's still an unbearable strain on public services.

 

26 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

So, your argument to move things away from London comes from the highly unlikely event of having nuclear warheads dropped on London?

 

Nukes are one potential, anything that causes damage in London has the potential to cripple the national economy.  Floods, a virus (given the population something could spread like wildfire), storms, even an asteroid.  All of these might be very small risks, but they're risks that can happen.

[ilovebender.com]

7 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Road signs might be imperial, but just about everyone I know uses metric for pretty much everything else.  Area isn't a roadsign (unless you're talking about fields, but they're hectares).

Seriously, you're in the UK, and so am I, and I've never heard anyone use the term 'square kilometres' before; now, I've heard of square miles... Square kilometres?

Quote

 

Population density....

 

Since there's a hell of a lot of commuters cramming into the city, from many tens of miles away, there's a problem in that London is struggling to pack more people in.  They might go home in an evening, but it's still an unbearable strain on public services.

I know, they're called 'The Home Counties'...

People come from all around the South East to commute to their jobs in the Greater London area; this commutable distance from London's called The Home Counties. I agree public services are lacking. Those who live in Brighton & Hove who work in Croydon shouldn't have to pay extortion for a season ticket for a crappy Southern Rail service.

 

Quote

 

Nukes are one potential, anything that causes damage in London has the potential to cripple the national economy.  Floods, a virus (given the population something could spread like wildfire), storms, even an asteroid.  All of these might be very small risks, but they're risks that can happen.

Weak argument.

Edited January 11, 2020 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

7 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Weak argument.

 

That's rather a rich comment, given your usual level of skill composing insults posts....

 

When the 7/7 bombing occurred it cost the economy billions, in terms of repairs, lives lost and the disruption to the day to day running of London.  If that happened in one day, imagine the damage that could be done if London was shut down for a week, or a month?

 

The point is, daily disruption is bad enough, something that can shut London down, even for a few days, has the potential to wreck the economy for a substantial period afterwards.  Grouping everything in one location is a large risk and the Tories do little to change the situation or migrate the skills pools away, they just throw some general money at a location outside of London, call it investment and expect miracles.  It's never enough to make a difference and thus the wages on offer are never enough to attract people away from the capital, yet, because there's money being thrown it looks like they care.

Rather a clever con trick isn't it?

[Svip]

Also generally a good idea to not act as a city state, when you're not.  Otherwise those disenfranchised people might get crazy ideas like independence.

[sivispacem]

8 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Since when did we use kilometres?

For the purposes of measuring area, of a coupe of decades now. We only really use imperial measurements for road signs.

 

But if you're not capable of doing what is basically dividing by 2.5 in your head, it's roughly 95,000 square miles and 10.8 square miles respectively.

 

8 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Seriously, why should people invest time and money fixing something that's not broken?

Why do you think it's not broken? The density of the capital, the relatively difficulty in moving through it at any speed, and the huge reliance on external commuters as a workforce are one of the reasons productivity is so low in this country. 

 

Spending two hours a day commuting on the train (which admittedly you can work on, albeit only if you're lucky enough to get a seat) and an hour on the tube (which you can't work on) is far less efficient a use of time that commuting shorter distances and times. 

 

The vast majority of roles in the businesses you pretend to like to promote (finance, tech, et ceteral) which are nominally situated within London are effectively remote; the entirely of my team, nay my department, can happily VPN into our corporate, or development, or testing, or analysis network from just about anywhere and barring extremely rare specific onsite client requirements (and of course excluding principal consultants such as myself who do a lot of the day to day client facing management) could happily never come to the office at all. Many of our competitors use an entirely home working based model- the only time you ever go to an office is to pick up your kit on day 1.

 

8 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

So, your argument to move things away from London comes from the highly unlikely event of having nuclear warheads dropped on London?

It's slightly hyperbolic but there's a whole raft of other potential disruptors ranging from power outages to flooding to far smaller localised events. 7/7 is a prominent example, but even 21/7 was massively economically disruptive. So was, for instance, the GWR Hitachi 810s bringing down the overhead lines into Paddington for three days. Or signal failures at Euston resulting in no trains running for two days. Or having to withdraw half the Jubilees line fleet from operation to fix premature wear on the rolling stock. Even Grenfell had huge economically disruptive impact. 

 

Short of literal city-states, I cannot think of another example of economic and strategic power being so heavily concentrated within a developed nation as is the case with the UK. The US, Germany, Japan- all divest their core industries widely across their land mass (though admittedly all are vastly more economically diverse than the UK).

 

From the perspective of disaster recovery, London is an absolute nightmares. The smallest event, like Extinction Rebellion gluing themselves to the DLR- has wildly disproportionate economic impact. And it's hard to argue that's a good thing.

[Svip]

The fact that there is a significant independence movement should be worrisome.  Following the 2014 referendum, I don't recall Westminster doing anything to appease the Scottish, if anything, they only made it worse for the Scots.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Svip

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

1 hour ago, Svip said:

The fact that there is a significant independence movement should be worrisome.  Following the 2014 referendum, I don't recall Westminster doing anything to appease the Scottish, if anything, they only made it worse for the Scots.

Westminster can say no as much as it wants to a 2nd ref.  The fact the Devolved Assemblies are being ignored over Brexit and the Brexit Bill rejections in their chambers, still have legal argument over the very treaties and agreements that created the Devolved Assemblies in the first place.

 

That's why Scotland is testing this through the courts as Westminster is effectively acting in violation of treaties.  If the courts find in Scottish favor, there's little to nothing Westminster can do about it, or stopping that referendum from happening either.  The process may well take a year or two to finally end up before the Supreme Court.  If Scotland win, it's very likely NI, Wales and Gib will be considering their options as they will be in the same legal position.

[ilovebender.com]

Westminster's still where the capital is, Scotland's still in the UK, UK's leaving the EU, UK's making sounds of being closer to America.

 

Stop me when I'm wrong...

On 1/11/2020 at 11:24 AM, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Westminster can say no as much as it wants to a 2nd ref.  The fact the Devolved Assemblies are being ignored over Brexit and the Brexit Bill rejections in their chambers, still have legal argument over the very treaties and agreements that created the Devolved Assemblies in the first place.

 

That's why Scotland is testing this through the courts as Westminster is effectively acting in violation of treaties.  If the courts find in Scottish favor, there's little to nothing Westminster can do about it, or stopping that referendum from happening either.  The process may well take a year or two to finally end up before the Supreme Court.  If Scotland win, it's very likely NI, Wales and Gib will be considering their options as they will be in the same legal position.

Yeah, but, you'd side with Iran over America and with the EU over UK, no wonder you'd side with anywhere in the UK over London.

It's just in your DNA to want; however, you don't have. America were right, not Iran, UK were right, not the EU, and London's right to have more investment because it's London and not Grimbsy, because London is the only world city in England.

Edited January 12, 2020 by ilovebender.com