UK Politics & Current Affairs Discussion & DIY Home Improvement Thread

[ilovebender.com]

Countries who fear the fall of the EU would mean the return of fascism means they had fascism before.

It's probably because these backwards people don't know how to govern for freedom to save their lives!

Thankfully, UK doesn't feel it depends on the EU to ward of such ideologies and indeed, can remember a time before the EU that was enjoyed not having fascism in the UK.

 

We're better than backwards countries for a reason, because they have no rights of minorities and can only hope to express what they're allowed to say with their lesser freedom of expression to our freedom of speech us and freedom lovers everywhere enjoy.

 

We don't fear the return of the iron curtain unlike some of these folks do too, because we're Britain and not say Latvia for example.

 

The EU's for small backwards countries to feel good about themselves in a world dominated by the US.

Edited December 21, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

Can you do anything other than post repetitive rambling drivel? Why don't you try addressing the various points you've ignored?

 

Also Germany is freer than the UK- fact.

[Raavi]

2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

because they have no rights of minorities and can only hope to express what they're allowed to say with their lesser freedom of expression to our freedom of speech us and freedom lovers everywhere enjoy.

 

Do you suffer from short-term memory loss? 

 

Freedom of speech is a the lesser right. Freedom of expression is the fuller right. We have been over this ad nauseam. 

[ilovebender.com]

2 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Can you do anything other than post repetitive rambling drivel? Why don't you try addressing the various points you've ignored?

Because I've seen what you post; you dispute freedom of speech and rights of minorities and feel like the fall of the EU means fascism or something when it really means UK gets to negotiate free trade with somebody else.

1 minute ago, Raavi said:

 

Do you suffer from short-term memory loss? 

 

Freedom of speech is a the lesser right. Freedom of expression is the fuller right. We have been over this ad nauseam. 

Freedom of speech is the fuller right, freedom of expression is the lesser right, because with freedom of expression, you're still not allowed to say certain things (because you have no freedom of speech).

So let's say you're only allowed to say good things about the head of state, and you're allowed to say good things about the head of state however you want; that's freedom of expression, to express what you're allowed to say however you want to; now if you have freedom of speech, you don't have to say good things about the head of state because you have freedom of speech to speak up against the powers that be; for example.

Edited December 21, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

1 minute ago, ilovebender.com said:

Because I've seen what you post

You evidently haven't, 'cos you can't summarise it with any degree of accuracy. The only thing you seem able to repeat are your own idiotic claims which, as Raavi has astutely pointed out, incorrectly claim freedom.of speech is superior to freedom of expression when it's actually inferior. Just like I told you half a dozen pages ago.

 

I checked again, Germany remains freer than the UK.

[ilovebender.com]

4 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

You evidently haven't, 'cos you can't summarise it with any degree of accuracy. The only thing you seem able to repeat are your own idiotic claims which, as Raavi has astutely pointed out, incorrectly claim freedom.of speech is superior to freedom of expression when it's actually inferior. Just like I told you half a dozen pages ago.

 

I checked again, Germany remains freer than the UK.

You try mowing you lawn on a Sunday in Berlin with a hover mower, and we'd see how free you'd be...

Any country who tells you to think of your neighbours over your lawn, is telling you it knows better than you. That's not the occident where we value individual's freedoms over the collective good, that's what they do in Communism. 

 

It's alien to UK like it's alien to USA because it goes against personal freedom to mow our lawn in this case any day we want with what ever mower we want.

Edited December 21, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

6 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Freedom of speech is the fuller right, freedom of expression is the lesser right

Wrong. Freedom of speech is merely a component part of freedom of expression.

 

2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You try mowing you lawn on a Sunday 

I don't need to, because "when I mow my lawn" isn't a personal freedom.

 

And the empirical fact is that Germany is freer than the UK.

 

I know that's really inconvenient for your diatribes, but it's not my fault- take it up with the people at the Cato Institute

[Raavi]

1 minute ago, ilovebender.com said:

Freedom of speech is the fuller right, freedom of expression is the lesser right, because with freedom of expression, you're still not allowed to say certain things.

Repeating something till you're blue in the face is not going to magically negate decades of established legal doctrine. 

 

You're not allowed to say certain things under either of the two. Try shouting "I have a bomb" in an airport terminal in the states and then put up a defence of freedom of speech in court. You'd be laughed all the way to federal prison.

[sivispacem]

@ilovebender.com I want to to provide one single external definition of "freedom of expression" which supports your claim it is inferior to freedom of speech.

 

 

Also, fun fact: the Human Rights Act 1998, which codifies free speech in the UK, doesn't actually use the term free speech at all- it uses freedom of expression..

 

That's right- our own law here in the UK protects not freedom of speech but freedom of expression.

 

Don't believe me? Have a read for yourself:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9

 

Idiot.

[Clem Fandango]

11 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You try mowing you lawn on a Sunday in Berlin with a hover mower, and we'd see how free you'd be...

lol nobody in the UK has a lawn anyway. 

 

And yeah, you've ignored every point made, most pressingly the fact that Germany is geographically much closer to Britain than the US is and also the economy is already geared around producing things for a German market. America literally doesn't need what Britain is selling. How Britain has more in common with America than Ireland is beyond me, too.

[ilovebender.com]

23 minutes ago, Clem Fandango said:

lol nobody in the UK has a lawn anyway. 

 

And yeah, you've ignored every point made, most pressingly the fact that Germany is geographically much closer to Britain than the US is and also the economy is already geared around producing things for a German market. America literally doesn't need what Britain is selling. How Britain has more in common with America than Ireland is beyond me, too.

Geography means one day Canada may hold the keys to a lucrative new shipping route to the Pacific from the North Atlantic because of melting polar icecaps which means if UK were in a deal with Canada and the US in some North Atlantic free trade deal - would be good for British export to sell in Asia and Australasia with a country like Canada in the same deal as us, without having to surrender anthems and flags.

 

But, what's in it for them?

Give them a stronger footprint in this part of the world, have British and American navy use the English Channel for war games and practices? Get ready encase of Putin, stretch American legs? IDK.

What does UK produce?

IDK, a bunch of cool stuff though, like aeronautics we sell and aerial technology I believe.

But I've seen UK manufacturing, we make, we export, IDK if we own, but we make in the UK with parts even sourced in the UK when possible.

Edited December 22, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[Clem Fandango]

Do you know how far away Australia is? And that only 22 million people live here? There's a reason Australia and the UK are barely trade partners anymore. 

 

I don't even know how to address the stupidity of signing a trade deal with Canada in preparation for new trade routes opening up when half the country melts.

[ilovebender.com]

1 minute ago, Clem Fandango said:

Do you know how far away Australia is? And that only 22 million people live here? There's a reason Australia and the UK are barely trade partners anymore. 

 

 

Yeah, Australia are more dependent on China.

 

 

 

If this new route opens up in Canada and Canada police it, UK could do better to sign up with the Americans and Canadians.

But what's in it for them other than a foot in this part of the world?

I hope UK and EU can be friends even if we're not going to be in the EU, I don't want to be enemies with these backwards people, and I don't think they want to be enemies with me even though to them I'm probably backwards too for leaving their one nation one world no borders dream.

[Clem Fandango]

Backwards? I doubt there's a single metric where the UK exceeds Germany or the Scandinavian countries. 

[ilovebender.com]

2 hours ago, Clem Fandango said:

Backwards? I doubt there's a single metric where the UK exceeds Germany or the Scandinavian countries. 

Liberty.

 

Germany;

Need a license to play golf; can't mow your lawn on a Sunday in a built up area with a powered lawn mower.

Scandinavian countries thanks to their Soviet history have the state running their alcohol shops.

 

 

 

 

 

In what measure is UK any less free than Germany or Scandinavian countries?

 

In the UK we don't have to put up with nonsense like some of the stuff these people have to put up with, and we have rights of minorities protecting Roma and burqa wearers too.

 

Not only are we more free, we're not using state oppression on minorities for being minorities either.

France and NL both have banned the burqa because of the right of the majority; how is that civilised?

At least in Britain women here can wear a burqa in public if they want.

This is Britain.

Edited December 22, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

Lol, your "sources" to support your argument are:

 

• A Jeremy Clarkson light entertainment programme
• Two random YouTube videos
• A BBC3 skit.

 

Your argument is garbage.

 

6 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

In what measure is UK any less free than Germany or Scandinavian countries?

Let's have a look, shall we?

 

Source: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2018-country-profiles-revised.pdf

 

 

So Germany and Sweden both beat the UK in:

 

The Rule of Law

• Procedural Justice
• Civil Justice
• Criminal Justice

Religious Freedom

• Legal and Regulatory Restrictions

Expression and Information

• Laws and Regulations that Influence the Media
• Political Pressure and Control of the Media

Identity and Relationships

• Legal Gender Recognition

In fact, the UK only tops either country (and never both) in a handful of areas- divorce rights (Sweden), freedom from religious harassment and hostility (Germany) and freedom disappearance, conflict and terrorism (Germany, by a whopping 0.1 points)

Time you face the inarguable facts here.

 

 

Also, I note you failed to reply to:

9 hours ago, sivispacem said:

The Human Rights Act 1998, which codifies free speech in the UK, doesn't actually use the term free speech at all- it uses freedom of expression..

That's right- our own law here in the UK protects not freedom of speech but freedom of expression.

 

Don't believe me? Have a read for yourself:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9

In case your straightjacket is on too tight and you aren't able to click links, I've done you a screenshot.

 

 

That's Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998; the point at which rights of Freedom to Expression (not, as 2. says, inalienable) is codified into British law.

No mention of "freedom of speech" to be found.

 

Also, of the Scandinavian country, only one- Finland has any history of occupation by Russia (as the Grand Duchy of Finland), and declared independence as a direct response to the Russian Revolution.

Which you'd know, if you had the first f*cking clue about history.

[Svip]

The only Soviet occupation of Scandinavian territory was the Soviet occupation of the island of Bornholm from 1945 to 1946.  Even if we extend the definition of Scandinavia to include Finland, Soviet occupations happened during the Winter War, and weren't stable like the Bornholm occupation.  I'm amazed to learn that this one year occupation has significantly influenced our politics.

 

Perhaps he is getting Scandinavia confused with the Baltic states?

[Brad]

7 minutes ago, Svip said:

The only Soviet occupation of Scandinavian territory was the Soviet occupation of the island of Bornholm from 1945 to 1946.  Even if we extend the definition of Scandinavia to include Finland, Soviet occupations happened during the Winter War, and weren't stable like the Bornholm occupation.  I'm amazed to learn that this one year occupation has significantly influenced our politics.

 

Perhaps he is getting Scandinavia confused with the Baltic states?

 

He’s in a permanent state of confusion 

[Rhoda]

Because re-runs of King Of Queens and Everybody Loves Raymond are essential when it comes to understanding this on your level, clearly.

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

As if it enhance the example of a dangerously fragile economy within the UK, and the pressure it's facing going forward, the EU has been working out the figures on Xmas food shopping within each EU nation :

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20191209-1?fbclid=IwAR3Gp6K62-La8Sdbx4hzhx-t2T0iqiSDB-OzZB7Tme-AgAce3GkdK2yo0s4

 

All the important stats and figures are there, but I'll leave the main diagram here for those who will argue on without accessing the data :

 

It's the Western economies feeling the pinch, clearly.

[Brad]

46 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

As if it enhance the example of a dangerously fragile economy within the UK, and the pressure it's facing going forward, the EU has been working out the figures on Xmas food shopping within each EU nation :

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20191209-1?fbclid=IwAR3Gp6K62-La8Sdbx4hzhx-t2T0iqiSDB-OzZB7Tme-AgAce3GkdK2yo0s4

 

All the important stats and figures are there, but I'll leave the main diagram here for those who will argue on without accessing the data :

 

It's the Western economies feeling the pinch, clearly.

 

Could it also not be that household wages in relation to food prices is comparatively more, therefore bringing the total % spend down? 

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

43 minutes ago, Brad said:

 

Could it also not be that household wages in relation to food prices is comparatively more, therefore bringing the total % spend down? 

 

It's not helped by a decade of stagnation, low wage increases and austerity within the UK economy.

 

To quote the thinktanks :

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/17/uk-living-standards-hit-by-rising-prices-and-weak-wage-growth

 

[sivispacem]

The UK does have the second highest proportion of disposable income in the EU28, after Germany.

[ilovebender.com]

5 hours ago, Svip said:

The only Soviet occupation of Scandinavian territory was the Soviet occupation of the island of Bornholm from 1945 to 1946.  Even if we extend the definition of Scandinavia to include Finland, Soviet occupations happened during the Winter War, and weren't stable like the Bornholm occupation.  I'm amazed to learn that this one year occupation has significantly influenced our politics.

 

Perhaps he is getting Scandinavia confused with the Baltic states?

No, I'm seeing documented cases of Scandinavian countries making me thankful for the off license in my own and a government that doesn't anally control alcohol retail. Why would/should the state control the alcohol shops? I don't know, but I'm not in that part of Europe, I'm on the British Isles in the UK. Do you think that's acceptable for their government to dictate alcohol sales on an entire culture of people? UK could do with some deregulation itself; less red tape is more, less government control is more liberty.

15 hours ago, sivispacem said:

Tesco isn't really British anymore. One of its majority shareholders is a US private equity firm, and another is the Central Bank of Norway. 

 

There's also no substantive difference in the quality of produce from LIDL to other large UK supermarkets. In fact for things like meat, I've often found it better. Plus when was the last time you could pop to Asda and buy a Dremel?

 

Also, the automotive bit of Rolls-Royce is wholly owned by BMW.

Well, you're anti American and a f*cking moron if you think Lidl is M&S food with a different label.

Who cares what an anti American leftist has to say?

Brexit was voted for and democracy is what you're going to get.

Edited December 22, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

18 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well, you're anti American

We've been over this.

 

18 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

a f*cking moron

Oh dear. What did I say a few posts back about ad hominems?

Or do you just not know what an ad hominem is?

 

18 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

f you think Lidl is M&S food with a different label.

I mean in many cases it actually is- as the same factories produce identical products for sale in numerous supermarkets- but I think you'll find I wasn't actually the poster who made that comment.

Oh, if only you could actually read.

 

 

Here's your regular reminder that the UK doesn't have freedom of speech enshrined in law, it has freedom of expression.

[ilovebender.com]

10 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

We've been over this.

 

Oh dear. What did I say a few posts back about ad hominems?

 

I mean in many cases it actually is- as the same factories produce identical products for sale in numerous supermarkets- but I think you'll find I wasn't actually the poster who made that comment.

Oh, if only you could actually read.

 

 

Here's your regular reminder that the UK doesn't have freedom of speech enshrined in law, it has freedom of expression.

Forgive me if I don't take someone who believes Lidl and M&S do badge engineering or is so pro EU to a blind stupidity even when faced with the reality of the burqa ban in France and NL and the pro American government leading Brexit seriously.

I think you'd find I look down on you for looking at your own naval instead of seeing the wider world outside of the European Union, which isn't democratically elected or in the majority when it comes to regulations and standards of technologies for the future.

You believe this project is your country, so will have a rude awakening when this project gets backed out of by the one country you're actually in.

And if it wasn't you talking about bread; You all look a like to me, you're all Remainers, and... You're all on the side that lost.

 

It amuses Brexiteers when you pine for the EU the way you guys do, know that.

Edited December 22, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[sivispacem]

22 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Forgive me if I don't take someone who believes Lidl and M&S do badge engineering

They factually do, though. For instance, chicken used in prepared products from all three supermarkets comes from the same stock and is processed in the same Two Sisters factory in West Brom.

 

22 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I think you'd find I look down on you 

Coming from somebody who:

 

> Referred to the NHS as a "company",

> Believes that "freedom of speech" is superior to "freedom of expression",

> Believes that the UK enshrines "free speech" when the HRA only references "freedom of expression",

> Thinks that the UK is "freer" than Scandinavia or Germany even in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary,

> Obsesses over the US as a bastion of freedom when it ranks much worse than even the UK...

 

I don't think I really mind much what you think and I daresay nor does anyone else given you're an absolute irrelevance.

 

 

 

And for f*cks sake, learn to edit posts!

 

Still haven't addressed this:

Clearly you're both incompetent and a chickensh*t

[ilovebender.com]

10 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

They factually do, though. For instance, chicken used in prepared products from all three supermarkets comes from the same stock and is processed in the same Two Sisters factory in West Brom.

 

Coming from somebody who:

 

> Referred to the NHS as a "company",

> Believes that "freedom of speech" is superior to "freedom of expression",

> Believes that the UK enshrines "free speech" when the HRA only references "freedom of expression",

> Thinks that the UK is "freer" than Scandinavia or Germany even in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary,

> Obsesses over the US as a bastion of freedom when it ranks much worse than even the UK...

 

I don't think I really mind much what you think and I daresay nor does anyone else given you're an absolute irrelevance.

 

 

 

And for f*cks sake, learn to edit posts!

 

Still haven't addressed this:

Clearly you're both incompetent and a chickensh*t

Yet you fail to realise the important things;

 

Democracy in the UK means UK's leaving the EU and no matter what you say, you've lost.

You still believe government owns private companies in the UK (not a few companies, but, every private company in the UK like it was Venezuela), or that a deal locking us to the EU is somehow better for the UK than one with America.

 

You push for more regulation and insanely hate America and follow the EU despite the facts of America being an advanced democracy who have better results and a different method than the EU.

 

This is reality.

Maybe you should watch the news before posting in D&D.

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by ilovebender.com

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

26 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Forgive me if I don't take someone who believes Lidl and M&S do badge engineering

I can make you wonder more too.

 

Generic 'bread loaves' go to Heinz in Milton Keynes '3 full loads in 40 foot containers.'

 

They are used for fresh sandwich production.  And the branding is across seven labels and brands, including supermarket own label, premium brands and motorway services staples.

[sivispacem]

7 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You still believe government owns private companies in the UK

The UK government does own controlling stakes in UK companies. How else would you describe the Golden Share in Rolls-Royce PLC?

 

7 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

a deal locking us to the EU is somehow better for the UK than one with America.

I provided plenty of justification for this view. What you haven't actually been able to support is why the inverse is good for the UK. 

 

 

 

 

 

Why will you still not address your claims about UK freedom of speech being proven wrong? It's so pathetic.

 

From now on, I'll hide every post of yours where you don't address this, until you do.