Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. Gameplay
      2. Missions
      3. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Arena War
      2. After Hours
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA Next

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Sign in to follow this  
Melech

Greece faces early election after PM loses vote on president

Recommended Posts

Svip

 

But then again I don't live in a magical fairyland where globalisation doesn't exist so understand that pathetic straw men, non sequitur arguments and appeals to emotion don't constitute a coherent argument for the US keeping their nose out of something that's clearly of significant economic and strategic interest.

 

Me neither, but much of Americas economical power is based on the leading role of the US dollar in world trade. If the Euro would break up, it wouldn't be the end of th world. Otherwise, how did everything work so well prior to the Euro? Wasn't this the time of biggest economical growth? How does everything work so well for a country like Poland? All regions of economical importance have recovered from the financial crisis and find its way back to stable growth, only the Euro zone hasn't.

 

 

And if the US broke up into individual countries, following perhaps a devastating internal crisis, this would also not be the end of the world. But I am pretty confident that European (and Asian) leaders would probably have a vested interest in avoiding such a crisis, as unlikely as it may be. In the same sense, sure, humanity will continue to exist after a collapse of the Euro, but not without another financial crisis that might put the one - some claim - we have just passed to shame. And certainly a crisis which effects would be felt in the US as well. President Obama certainly has a vested interest in seeing the Eurozone remain whole, even if we ignore his humane and solidarity interests.

Edited by Svip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

 

 

But then again I don't live in a magical fairyland where globalisation doesn't exist so understand that pathetic straw men, non sequitur arguments and appeals to emotion don't constitute a coherent argument for the US keeping their nose out of something that's clearly of significant economic and strategic interest.

 

Me neither, but much of Americas economical power is based on the leading role of the US dollar in world trade. If the Euro would break up, it wouldn't be the end of th world. Otherwise, how did everything work so well prior to the Euro? Wasn't this the time of biggest economical growth? How does everything work so well for a country like Poland? All regions of economical importance have recovered from the financial crisis and find its way back to stable growth, only the Euro zone hasn't.

 

 

And if the US broke up into individual countries, following perhaps a devastating internal crisis, this would also not be the end of the world. But I am pretty confident that European (and Asian) leaders would probably have a vested interest in avoiding such a crisis, as unlikely as it may be. In the same sense, sure, humanity will continue to exist after a collapse of the Euro, but not without another financial crisis that might put the one - some claim - we have just passed to shame. And certainly a crisis which effects would be felt in the US as well. President Obama certainly has a vested interest in seeing the Eurozone remain whole, even if we ignore his humane and solidarity interests.

 

 

Again why did the American government allow American rating agencies to rate Greece that low for years? I have written it before, those agencies get their licence from the American goverment. If America wants to help Greece it can easily stop their rating agencies. Of course every private investor can invest in what he wants, but there are instituational investors like insurance agencies and pension funds that are not allowed to invest in bonds of a country like Greece. They would act against the law. Also every bond traded in the United States must be rated by an American rating agency.

Edited by Stephan90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sivispacem

Because the American government isn't responsible for the actions of private agencies effectively unaffiliated with it? Why should the US government withdraw the licenced of ratings agencies for doing their jobs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

Because the American government isn't responsible for the actions of private agencies effectively unaffiliated with it? Why should the US government withdraw the licenced of ratings agencies for doing their jobs?

 

Because it can!? The rating formula is not even open to public.It is intransparent. They can give every unrealistic rating they want, insurance agencies and pension funds not only in the United States are obliged by the law to not buy Greek bonds with junk rating.

 

It wasn't me who claimed that the United States want to see the Euro crisis resolved. The bad ratings have done very much financial damage to the Greek state. If the American government really wanted, they could easily reduce the pain for the Greek people, it wouldn't cost them one single dollar.

Edited by Stephan90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Svip

 

Because the American government isn't responsible for the actions of private agencies effectively unaffiliated with it? Why should the US government withdraw the licenced of ratings agencies for doing their jobs?

Because it can!? The rating formula is not even open to public.It is intransparent. They can give every unrealistic rating they want, insurance agencies and pension funds not only in the United States are obliged by the law to not buy Greek bonds with junk rating.

 

 

Because the rating agencies would lose all credibility with creditors if they did not rank Greece so low, because the potential of a return on your investments would be low? Standard & Poor's have a very high reputation as a credit rating agency, and to maintain that, they need to be tough. If S&P's makes false credit ratings, and creditors feel they were misled, S&P's would lose all its reputation and become pointless.

 

It wasn't me who claimed that the United States want to see the Euro crisis resolved. The bad ratings have done very much financial damage to the Greek state. If the American government really wanted, they could easily reduce the pain for the Greek people, it wouldn't cost them one single dollar.

 

I think Greece's own lackluster maintenance of its own economy for the past two decades, as well as hopelessly backwards public sector with no electronic systems to log taxes, etc. is the primary cause of Greece's financial woes. The fact that people can themselves decide whether or not to pay taxes without any consequence proves how serious they are taking it.

 

When Greece three years ago wanted to raise the taxes, they didn't actually raise the income tax, but rather the electric service fees, because that's something Greeks actually pay, because otherwise their electric service are cut. The net result of this was that it left many Greeks without electricity over the winter 2012/2013, which you can agree is bad.

 

I realise this is anecdotal evidence, but I have co-workers who have interacted with Greek authorities, not because they were doing anything illicit, but because they were following the rules, and each time they noticed that all logs were purely paper, there were no electronic tracking or anything. As a result, they often don't bother checking up at all, because it's so much work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

How does creditibility and intransparent calculation formulas fit together?

 

I know about Greece problems. But the bad ratings are also self-fullfiliing prophecy. If Greece had a moderate rating it could save billions of Euros and invest the money. You can't only do reforms without investing to strengthen the conjuncture. Again the United States government has it in its hands. Why am I supposed to believe in the neutrality of Standard and Poors when their ratings are completely intransparent and also negatively target Russia, Americas rival, beyond what was justified?

Edited by Stephan90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sivispacem

Because it can!?

Can it? I'm fairly sure that meddling in the affairs of private companies by government for purposes of self-interest is frowned upon in the US. It wouldn't even be tolerable in the bits of Europe where private and public industry go hand in hand. It's really very silly to suggest that the ratings agencies should ignore reality and instead follow the whims of governments. It's not in the interests of ratings agencies to do anything other than provide an accurate assessment.

 

The rating formula is not even open to public.It is intransparent.

So? Does that mean that it's not accurate? Of course not; that would require assuming any secretively sourced information was inaccurate which is clearly ridiculous.

 

They can give every unrealistic rating they want

But it's their job not to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Svip

How does creditibility and intransparent calculation formulas fit together?

 

They have nothing to do with one another in this case. You are confusing credit rating agencies with governments. Credibility in the financial world comes from being right and experience. Banks don't lend you more money if you are more open about your financial situation, they are much more likely to lend you fewer money or none at all, if you are. And the same goes between companies and indeed between countries.

 

Moreover, S&P has trade secrets to protect, their formulae are more credible than other credit rating agencies, so they don't want them to steal their formulae.

 

I know about Greece problems. But the bad ratings are also self-fullfiliing prophecy. If Greece had a moderate rating it could save billions of Euros and invest the money. You can't only do reforms without investing to strengthen the conjuncture. Again the United States government has it in its hands. Why am I supposed to believe in the neutrality of Standard and Poors when their ratings are completely intransparent and also negatively target Russia, Americas rival, beyond what was justified?

 

I would like to point out that of all the American credit rating agencies, only S&P has given the US a sub-AAA+ rating, making them the most hostile to the US' economical situation of all the American CRAs.

 

Moreover, I don't think it is wrong of S&P's to give Russia a proto-junk rating considering the current situation in Russia. And further more, most of 'America's rivals' are not safe investments. However, I didn't know Greece was a rival of the US.

Edited by Svip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doc Rikowski

"Credibility" and "financial world" shouldn't really be allowed to stay in the same sentence. They're almost opposites. ;)

Edited by Doc Rikowski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dingdongs

One of those same agencies (S&P) lowered its rating of US bonds so the idea that the U.S. administration could just control it is f*cking ridiculous Stephan. Obama would love if that were true because a big part of the rhetoric against him in 2012 was that under his watch our debt rating went down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

One of those same agencies (S&P) lowered its rating of US bonds so the idea that the U.S. administration could just control it is f*cking ridiculous Stephan. Obama would love if that were true because a big part of the rhetoric against him in 2012 was that under his watch our debt rating went down.

 

One small downrating is the proof that S&P was independent?! Wow it is really easy to make the masses believe S&P was/is independent. The United states are the safe haven for investors. In addition to that the federal reserve simply has created tens of billions of dollars per month to buy American bonds There will always be a demand for more dollars as long as it is the leading currency in the world. It is almost impossible if not impossible for the United States to become default as long as the Republicans don't freak out when the debt ceiling is reached again.

On the other side the big three rating agencies are one of the best possible tools for the United States government to push for its interests. I can't prove that they control the rating agencies apart from the fact that they give them their licence, but it is unlikely that they wouldn't do that

 

NSA breaks civil rights all over the world and before the Snowden leaks you would have been called a lunatic if you speak that out loud in pubilc.

Edited by Stephan90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sivispacem

F*cking hell Stephan, now you're starting to sound like a wingnut. Seriously, this is bordering on ridiculous now.

Here's a notion: demonstrate that S&P are not independent or accept that you're wrong, or at the very least have made a spurious allegation you can't support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doc Rikowski

I think European citizens should start to worry about who represent them rather than being distracted by Greece's debt, given the latest financial scandal in which huge companies have been "legally" allowed to stash huge funds in Luxembourg with minimal taxation.

Paging Juncker anyone?

 

Disgusting read but interesting. ;)

http://www.icij.org/project/luxembourg-leaks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Svip

That's old news, now it's the HSBC leaks that are the big thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dingdongs

That's old news, now it's the HSBC leaks that are the big thing.

Yeah. They disgust me with the sh*t that bank was doing. Allowing terrorists and drug cartels, human traffickers, to launder money through their bank. They should be locked away with the worst of the worst getting their f*cking pampered banker asses pounded by their cellmate daddy like any other criminal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doc Rikowski

Unfortunately it is quite a common practice among big banks to launder money for drug cartels. Sorry if I repeat myself also in this topic but the book I just read is very good and some of you I'm sure will enjoy it a lot given your general intellectual curiosity about world's affairs.

It was written by Roberto Saviano, Italian journalist and writer that lives permanently under escort due to his previous book about the criminal organization Camorra.

The book is about cocaine but not only about that. A couple of chapters are dedicated to how the money is laundered by big banks.
It explains how cocaine basically became the most profitable commodity in the world and its role in the global economy.

It goes through the history of the Colombian and Mexican cartels, their connection to the 'Ndrangheta (currently more successful than Cosa Nostra), the rise of the Russian Bratvas, the Nigerian mob and the new figure of the cocaine broker not affiliated to any criminal organization.
Very interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/Zero-Roberto-Saviano/dp/1594205507

---

Swissleaks vs Luxembourg leaks: I think both scandals are quite disgusting. Even though the Luxembourg leaks are about perfectly legal practices, I just can't approve any legal practice that allows big companies to not pay taxes and to subtracts huge amounts of money to the economies of the countries in which they operate and generate profits. It turns out that austerity is just for the little man while the corporate gets all the perks of being big and rich.
At the same time it looks like the mainstream press is using the Swiss leaks to avoid talking about the Luxembourg leaks that directly touch the political power.

Edited by Doc Rikowski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Melech

Unfortunately it is quite a common practice among big banks to launder money for drug cartels. Sorry if I repeat myself also in this topic but the book I just read is very good and some of you I'm sure will enjoy it a lot given your general intellectual curiosity about world's affairs.

 

It was written by Roberto Saviano, Italian journalist and writer that lives permanently under escort due to his previous book about the criminal organization Camorra.

 

The book is about cocaine but not only about that. A couple of chapters are dedicated to how the money is laundered by big banks.

It explains how cocaine basically became the most profitable commodity in the world and its role in the global economy.

It goes through the history of the Colombian and Mexican cartels, their connection to the 'Ndrangheta (currently more successful than Cosa Nostra), the rise of the Russian Bratvas, the Nigerian mob and the new figure of the cocaine broker not affiliated to any criminal organization.

Very interesting read.

 

It looks very interesting. I will take a look when I get free time.

 

Thank you.

 

Swissleaks vs Luxembourg leaks: I think both scandals are quite disgusting. Even though the Luxembourg leaks are about perfectly legal practices, I just can't approve any legal practice that allows big companies to not pay taxes and to subtracts huge amounts of money to the economies of the countries in which they operate and generate profits. It turns out that austerity is just for the little man while the corporate gets all the perks of being big and rich.

At the same time it looks like the mainstream press is using the Swiss leaks to avoid talking about the Luxembourg leaks that directly touch the political power.

 

All about these leaks is quite disgusting. But do we know if all accounts leaked are illegal? I mean, to have an account in a Swiss bank is not illegal. It's illegal only if the account is secret and/or the money is not declared to the authorities.

 

The third country with more money in Swiss banks is Venezuela. I was surprised, as it's a country where people can't even get toilet paper. Most accounts belong to regime high-ranking officials.

 

These commies love the worst of capitalism!

 

I think European citizens should start to worry about who represent them rather than being distracted by Greece's debt

 

I think Europeans are not really worried about Greece's debt. It's Greeks the ones who should be worried.

 

If their crazy government doesn't pay.. Boom! They go broke. What will happen? Who knows... Just be sure you have a good amount of popcorn! This will get interesting hahaha.

Edited by Palikari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doc Rikowski

Let me know if you liked the book.

Even though "like" is not really the correct term cause it's pretty shocking rather than enjoyable.

But Saviano is a good writer so the book is also sort of likeable. ;)

 

 

---

 

On topic:

 

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/comparative-austerity/?smid=fb-share&_r=0

Edited by Doc Rikowski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Der_Don

Sorry to bump this topic but I was kinda surprised that it wasn't revived during this week. I don't know how it's perceived in other countries, but after Tsipras announced a referendum for today, this was actually the only thing the German news were on about. So it's either Yes or No for the Greeks today. A No could result in Greece being ejected from the Eurozone. A Yes would probably be the end for Tsipras and Syriza. I heard and read so many different things about the consequences of a Yes- or No-vote that I don't really know what to expect when the official results are in. The turnout is expected to be high and it's also expected to be a very close vote. It could go either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raavi

Slight edge towards No, but it's still very much up in the air.

 

If it were a Yes, it would be a yes to a proposal that's already off the table. That said it would sent a clear message that the Greek people don't stand for their government acting a fool, and force Syriza, if they can bear stay on after democratic humiliation, to reach a deal. Bearing in mind any such deal will have to be at least for a part in direct conflict with their doctrine, will be interesting to see play out.

 

Second scenario, a No vote. This would mean a flat out rejection of all economic reform constructions that have been discussed thusfar, and let's be real here, it might as well be a rejection of Euro membership. There wouldn't be much more to negotiate when the most rudimentary base of negotiations has been rejected. Unless the creditors make huge concessions and the ECB provides more ELA tomorrow, which I deem unlikely at best in a Yes scenario let alone a No scenario. It would more or less prompt a delayed GREXIT. Might as well start the Drachma printing presses in that scenario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

Greek government said that the Drachma presses were destroyed long ago.

 

Would have prefered a referendum in Germany. "Should Germany continue to throw money into this barrel without a bottom?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Svip

I would find Alexis Tsipras' naïveté cute if the consequences weren't so dire for his people. The fact that he believes that the people of Greece can decide the conditions of a loan the country will take from other democracy countries is either incredibly naïve or incredibly arrogant. Doesn't he realise that these other democratic countries also have a say in how they are willing to lend off their money? And that these people negotiating the deals with Greece were appointed by their respective elected parliaments?

 

I'm sure if we held a referendum in each Eurozone country on whether they should continue to lend Greece more money, Greece would be disappointed with the response. The people have spoken, and it's usually a bit too complex for them to understand. In their defence, they were offered pretty sh*tty options.

 

But hey, at least now Tsipras has ridden him and his government off any personal blame for the ensuring fiasco. And I'm afraid it's the Greeks that will be worse off. I feel bad for the Greeks, honestly, but I don't feel bad for their government.

 

The Eurozone countries deserve to lose some money, considering they allowed Greece into the Eurozone to begin with and didn't do anything to demand Greece fix its books. But I don't think they want to continue losing money indefinitely, and I doubt their people would be keen on that idea (moreover, if we want to talk about the will of the people, I don't think it was theirs to have Greece join in the first place; except in Greece).

 

Thomas Piketty has some suggestions for the crisis. Not entirely unreasonable, I think.

Edited by Svip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

I think all former Greek politicians who were involved in faking the financial numbers of Greece should be held liable with their personal wealth. Goldman Sachs who helped them with interest swaps and which employees knew exactly, that it was done to get into the Euro, should be sued.

Edited by Stephan90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raavi

Now we're no longer talking possibility but probability of Grexit, who's leading the camp that desperately wants to keep Greece in the EZ? France. Not that this should come as a surprise seeing the fact that the debt restructuring of la Grèce was actually a damn lucrative deal for France and spared them a particularly nasty bailout of their banking system. But not so much for some of their EZ brethren. In fact quite the opposite.

 

Excellent piece by Ben Steil on the topic.

 

http://blogs.cfr.org/geographics/2015/07/02/greecefallout/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

Manuel Waltz prime minister of France wants a debt cut for Greece. Bravo do it France, but don't expect us to relinquish the common rules of the Euro which includes no bailout.Greece has not done the most important structure reforms during the last 5 years they had. 5 years time which were bought for them by the other countries. Even now, Tsipras demands more billions, what an arrogant prick.

Edited by Stephan90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eutyphro

Manuel Waltz prime minister of France wants a debt cut for Greece. Bravo do it France, but don't expect us to relinquish the common rules of the Euro which includes no bailout.Greece has not done the most important structure reforms during the last 5 years they had. 5 years time which were bought for them by the other countries. Even now, Tsipras demands more billions, what an arrogant prick.

They did do all the reforms (austerity) they were told to do, and it destroyed their economy, which also wrecked their ability to pay back debt. Further austerity is a really stupid plan. Any realistic solution will include cancelling at least a large part of the debt, and reversing austerity so the Greek economy will grow again, to restore their ability to pay back debt, and get a healthy economy again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dingdongs

 

Manuel Waltz prime minister of France wants a debt cut for Greece. Bravo do it France, but don't expect us to relinquish the common rules of the Euro which includes no bailout.Greece has not done the most important structure reforms during the last 5 years they had. 5 years time which were bought for them by the other countries. Even now, Tsipras demands more billions, what an arrogant prick.

They did do all the reforms (austerity) they were told to do, and it destroyed their economy, which also wrecked their ability to pay back debt. Further austerity is a really stupid plan. Any realistic solution will include cancelling at least a large part of the debt, and reversing austerity so the Greek economy will grow again, to restore their ability to pay back debt, and get a healthy economy again.

 

I agree with you that blind austerity isn't going to fix anything. But this won't, either. You can't just forgive the debts and let the Greeks have a free spigot of money again. That's what lead to what we have going on there right now - massve inflows of capital that their economy wasn't equipped to handle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Svip

There are several issues at play.

 

Most importantly; fundamentally the Greek economy has little to no industry and the country therefore does not produce nor export anything of significant value. Other EU members hit hard, like Spain and Italy, at least have a manufacturing industry and a decent export market. Austerity measures will not change that. It will only make life worse for the Greek people, until we will be here again in a few years.

 

Another important issue is the unwillingness of the Greek people to reform their own systems. People don't pay taxes, they want pension benefits at age 55, cheques are still incredibly common (and abused heavily), the court system is incredibly slow to handle cheque frauds and other things and so on. But changing these things is unpopular among the Greeks.

 

My solution is pretty straightforward (but unfortunately seemingly unlikely): Require the Greeks to reform in exchange for pumping up their economy, like we did with Germany after the Second World War. Part of pumping up the economy will focus on creating a real industry in Greece for them to live off. If the Greeks are willing to modernise, they will get more money between their hands with this boost as well as increase their standard of living. Moreover, the rest of the EU will see a return on this pumping when Greece can buy more of their products as well as export to these countries.

 

Yes, the rich EU countries obviously won't see all their money directly nor indirectly returned pumped into Greece, but neither did the Western Allies after the Marshall Plan from Germany. Not because Germany refused to pay, but because the debt was slashed a few years later.

 

But - as I mentioned above - none of this will happen, because A) Greece seems unlikely to reform even if these promises were provided (and even then, can we really trust Greece to live up to their promise?) and B) giving Greece a lot more money is not popular in the other Eurozone countries. They may be more willing if we discuss slashing the debt of numerous Eurozone countries and not just Greece, but even then it might be a hard sell to - say - the German people.

 

(For the record, the idea of pumping the Greek economy is not my idea, but rather a more and more popular idea among economists across Europe.)

 

Unfortunately, I worry what will happen is either A) Greece will accept an austerity-tied loan despite the referendum, leading to the return of this crisis soon enough, B) Greece will not accept the loan and state default is fact. In the case of default, one solution to Greece's problems would be to mint their own currency (the drachma) and quickly devalue it. While it might save the Greek state, it certainly will lead to terrible conditions for the Greek economy.

 

For one thing, the drachma would not be a trusted currency. Since no one can predict what it will worth 30 days from now, trade between Greek companies and other European companies will be severely limited and it will bankrupt many Greek companies (moreso than now, because at least now they can rely on the fact that the Euro has the same value in Germany and Italy as it does in Greece).

 

Long story short, worse times are a-coming for the Greeks. Unless we launch a second Marshall Plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stephan90

 

Manuel Waltz prime minister of France wants a debt cut for Greece. Bravo do it France, but don't expect us to relinquish the common rules of the Euro which includes no bailout.Greece has not done the most important structure reforms during the last 5 years they had. 5 years time which were bought for them by the other countries. Even now, Tsipras demands more billions, what an arrogant prick.

They did do all the reforms (austerity) they were told to do, and it destroyed their economy, which also wrecked their ability to pay back debt. Further austerity is a really stupid plan. Any realistic solution will include cancelling at least a large part of the debt, and reversing austerity so the Greek economy will grow again, to restore their ability to pay back debt, and get a healthy economy again.

 

 

Please make at least the effort to read my posts correctly before you answer. i said "structure reforms". This has few to do with austerity meassures. You should do some research to understand what structure reforms are. In the last 5 years Greece has done only very few structure reforms out of the many they were told do. Structure reforms take some time to make their full impact. But five years are enough time if they had simply made them.

 

For example, In five years Greece has not managed to create a real property cadastre. No wonder why foreign investors prefer other countries over Greece. Greece has promised to make structure reforms in order to get the money, which they have received already over the years. The haven't kept their word. The help program ended. They didn't pay their rate to the IMF. So now the only fair consequence is Grexit if the European politcians hold their word.

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/12/economist-explains-5

Edited by Stephan90

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.