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Ai®a©ob®a

Newtown Ct Families File Wrongful Death Lawsuit Against Bushmaster

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AlienTwo

 

 

 

Alien, on 17 Dec 2014 - 9:47 PM, said:
For the exact same reason a civilian can't own a tank, RPG or F-14. They are weapons of war, not to be put in the hand of whatever untrained idiot can scrape together the money to buy one.

 

 

Are you honestly comparing an explosive device and a jet fighter to a hand-held weapon that can be used in close-quarters for self defense?

 

Are you honestly trying to downplay the power of a Bushmaster AR-15 to that of a "hand-held weapon"?? These are all tools of war on various scales, none should be in the hands of civilians. Same story with landmines, hand grenades and nuclear bombs.

 

Lol, and have you ever fired an AR-15 or even seen one before? "Tool of war"... it's a f*cking civilian purpose rifle. AR-15 is probably less dangerous than any handgun I would argue due to its size preventing it from being concealed. The two we have are specifically built to adhere to NYS law, no flash suppressors, 10 round magazines, no pistol grip... just a lot of fun at the range. It's not the gunmaker nor is it those in law enforcement/civilians gun owner fault when someone uses a gun to kill someone.

Nope. When I was in the army, the didn't allow us to play with guns.

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Dottie

I had a response, but the forums ate it.

 

In summary: I exaggerated assault rifles, If guns were banned, or significantly stricter gun laws were enforced, crazy people would have a much harder time killing large amounts of people. Knives are a lot less capable of mass death compared to a firearm. 5 dead children is a lot better than 30 dead children.(0 dead children in a perfect world..)

this disregarding the good ole black market where you can buy anything and everything

which is what criminals (usually people with existing criminal records) go to to purchase their firearms since the civilian market dont take kindly to those criminal records

 

Banning this and that really only affects the law abiding citizens and the small percent of criminals who actually use the legal civilian market to obtain firearms

 

Banning this and that in the legal market doesnt affect the current black market situation

Edited by Winning001

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Dingdongs

 

 

 

 

Alien, on 17 Dec 2014 - 9:47 PM, said:
For the exact same reason a civilian can't own a tank, RPG or F-14. They are weapons of war, not to be put in the hand of whatever untrained idiot can scrape together the money to buy one.

 

 

Are you honestly comparing an explosive device and a jet fighter to a hand-held weapon that can be used in close-quarters for self defense?

 

Are you honestly trying to downplay the power of a Bushmaster AR-15 to that of a "hand-held weapon"?? These are all tools of war on various scales, none should be in the hands of civilians. Same story with landmines, hand grenades and nuclear bombs.

 

Lol, and have you ever fired an AR-15 or even seen one before? "Tool of war"... it's a f*cking civilian purpose rifle. AR-15 is probably less dangerous than any handgun I would argue due to its size preventing it from being concealed. The two we have are specifically built to adhere to NYS law, no flash suppressors, 10 round magazines, no pistol grip... just a lot of fun at the range. It's not the gunmaker nor is it those in law enforcement/civilians gun owner fault when someone uses a gun to kill someone.

Nope. When I was in the army, the didn't allow us to play with guns.

 

Then you should know how different a civilian AR is from a military issue M16A2/A4 if you were in the Army, especially the ones in states with gun laws like NY. There is no 3 rd burst capability, no flash suppressors on most, no pistol grips, and in NY you can't have the full size magazine.

Edited by Irviding

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Killerdude

Funny thing though, brings me back to places like Iceland, and even my Country, We/They do not have guns like the US does, and because of that, We don't have such rampant crime in these countries.

 

Also, One quick thing about Swizterland, Gun control is near non-existent, But Ammunition laws are insanely strict.

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Dottie

Funny thing though, brings me back to places like Iceland, and even my Country, We/They do not have guns like the US does, and because of that, We don't have such rampant crime in these countries.

 

Also, One quick thing about Swizterland, Gun control is near non-existent, But Ammunition laws are insanely strict.

The US was founded on guns (and the French) and will always be a gun society whether people like it or not

Its something that's so ingrained into American society that will most likely never change

Edited by Winning001

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AlienTwo

 

 

 

 

 

Alien, on 17 Dec 2014 - 9:47 PM, said:
For the exact same reason a civilian can't own a tank, RPG or F-14. They are weapons of war, not to be put in the hand of whatever untrained idiot can scrape together the money to buy one.

 

 

Are you honestly comparing an explosive device and a jet fighter to a hand-held weapon that can be used in close-quarters for self defense?

 

Are you honestly trying to downplay the power of a Bushmaster AR-15 to that of a "hand-held weapon"?? These are all tools of war on various scales, none should be in the hands of civilians. Same story with landmines, hand grenades and nuclear bombs.

 

Lol, and have you ever fired an AR-15 or even seen one before? "Tool of war"... it's a f*cking civilian purpose rifle. AR-15 is probably less dangerous than any handgun I would argue due to its size preventing it from being concealed. The two we have are specifically built to adhere to NYS law, no flash suppressors, 10 round magazines, no pistol grip... just a lot of fun at the range. It's not the gunmaker nor is it those in law enforcement/civilians gun owner fault when someone uses a gun to kill someone.

Nope. When I was in the army, the didn't allow us to play with guns.

 

Then you should know how different a civilian AR is from a military issue M16A2/A4 if you were in the Army.

 

Dude, you are splitting hairs. My point stands, an AR-15 can be converted to a fully auto weapon that fires the same rounds as an M-4. It's also called a NATO round because it's a goddamned military weapon.

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Killerdude

 

Funny thing though, brings me back to places like Iceland, and even my Country, We/They do not have guns like the US does, and because of that, We don't have such rampant crime in these countries.

 

Also, One quick thing about Swizterland, Gun control is near non-existent, But Ammunition laws are insanely strict.

The US was founded on guns (and the French) and will always be a gun society whether people like it or not

Its something that's so ingrained into American society that will most likely never change

 

Unfortunately that is true.

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AlienTwo

 

Funny thing though, brings me back to places like Iceland, and even my Country, We/They do not have guns like the US does, and because of that, We don't have such rampant crime in these countries.

 

Also, One quick thing about Swizterland, Gun control is near non-existent, But Ammunition laws are insanely strict.

The US was founded on guns (and the French) and will always be a gun society whether people like it or not

Its something that's so ingrained into American society that will most likely never change

 

We were also founded on slavery, genocide and classism. Let's hope humans can improve.

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Dottie

 

 

Funny thing though, brings me back to places like Iceland, and even my Country, We/They do not have guns like the US does, and because of that, We don't have such rampant crime in these countries.

 

Also, One quick thing about Swizterland, Gun control is near non-existent, But Ammunition laws are insanely strict.

The US was founded on guns (and the French) and will always be a gun society whether people like it or not

Its something that's so ingrained into American society that will most likely never change

 

We were also founded on slavery, genocide and classism. Let's hope humans can improve.

 

Blame the imperialistic behaviour of Europeans for that one. and also Blame the Portugese specifically on the slavery of Africans as they're the ones who started the transatlantic Slave Trade to begin with

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Frank Brown

 

 

Funny thing though, brings me back to places like Iceland, and even my Country, We/They do not have guns like the US does, and because of that, We don't have such rampant crime in these countries.

 

Also, One quick thing about Swizterland, Gun control is near non-existent, But Ammunition laws are insanely strict.

The US was founded on guns (and the French) and will always be a gun society whether people like it or not

Its something that's so ingrained into American society that will most likely never change

 

We were also founded on slavery, genocide and classism. Let's hope humans can improve.

 

 

Owning a firearm isn't equivalent to any of those.

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Dingdongs

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alien, on 17 Dec 2014 - 9:47 PM, said:
For the exact same reason a civilian can't own a tank, RPG or F-14. They are weapons of war, not to be put in the hand of whatever untrained idiot can scrape together the money to buy one.

 

 

Are you honestly comparing an explosive device and a jet fighter to a hand-held weapon that can be used in close-quarters for self defense?

 

Are you honestly trying to downplay the power of a Bushmaster AR-15 to that of a "hand-held weapon"?? These are all tools of war on various scales, none should be in the hands of civilians. Same story with landmines, hand grenades and nuclear bombs.

 

Lol, and have you ever fired an AR-15 or even seen one before? "Tool of war"... it's a f*cking civilian purpose rifle. AR-15 is probably less dangerous than any handgun I would argue due to its size preventing it from being concealed. The two we have are specifically built to adhere to NYS law, no flash suppressors, 10 round magazines, no pistol grip... just a lot of fun at the range. It's not the gunmaker nor is it those in law enforcement/civilians gun owner fault when someone uses a gun to kill someone.

Nope. When I was in the army, the didn't allow us to play with guns.

 

Then you should know how different a civilian AR is from a military issue M16A2/A4 if you were in the Army.

 

Dude, you are splitting hairs. My point stands, an AR-15 can be converted to a fully auto weapon that fires the same rounds as an M-4. It's also called a NATO round because it's a goddamned military weapon.

 

I'm not trying to tarnish your service if you were really in the military, but it seems like you don't know much about your weaponry... M4 fires the same rounds as an M16A2/A4 as does an AR-15, the standard 5.56 by 45 NATO round. The difference between the 3 is that the AR can fire civilian purpose .22 for example, along with a few other cartridge types I don't know off the top of my head.

 

That's semantics. Are you going to say that a Swiss Army knife shouldn't be used because it has army in the title?

Edited by Irviding

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AlienTwo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alien, on 17 Dec 2014 - 9:47 PM, said:
For the exact same reason a civilian can't own a tank, RPG or F-14. They are weapons of war, not to be put in the hand of whatever untrained idiot can scrape together the money to buy one.

 

 

Are you honestly comparing an explosive device and a jet fighter to a hand-held weapon that can be used in close-quarters for self defense?

 

Are you honestly trying to downplay the power of a Bushmaster AR-15 to that of a "hand-held weapon"?? These are all tools of war on various scales, none should be in the hands of civilians. Same story with landmines, hand grenades and nuclear bombs.

 

Lol, and have you ever fired an AR-15 or even seen one before? "Tool of war"... it's a f*cking civilian purpose rifle. AR-15 is probably less dangerous than any handgun I would argue due to its size preventing it from being concealed. The two we have are specifically built to adhere to NYS law, no flash suppressors, 10 round magazines, no pistol grip... just a lot of fun at the range. It's not the gunmaker nor is it those in law enforcement/civilians gun owner fault when someone uses a gun to kill someone.

Nope. When I was in the army, the didn't allow us to play with guns.

 

Then you should know how different a civilian AR is from a military issue M16A2/A4 if you were in the Army.

 

Dude, you are splitting hairs. My point stands, an AR-15 can be converted to a fully auto weapon that fires the same rounds as an M-4. It's also called a NATO round because it's a goddamned military weapon.

 

I'm not trying to tarnish your service if you were really in the military, but it seems like you don't know much about your weaponry... M4 fires the same rounds as an M16A2/A4 as does an AR-15, the standard 5.56 by 45 NATO round. That's semantics. Are you going to say that a Swiss Army knife shouldn't be used because it has army in the title?

 

You just repeated what I said as an argument against what I said and using our agreeing as fact that I "don't know much about my weaponry?"

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Dottie

This thread in a nutshell

 

 

 

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Dingdongs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alien, on 17 Dec 2014 - 9:47 PM, said:
For the exact same reason a civilian can't own a tank, RPG or F-14. They are weapons of war, not to be put in the hand of whatever untrained idiot can scrape together the money to buy one.

 

 

Are you honestly comparing an explosive device and a jet fighter to a hand-held weapon that can be used in close-quarters for self defense?

 

Are you honestly trying to downplay the power of a Bushmaster AR-15 to that of a "hand-held weapon"?? These are all tools of war on various scales, none should be in the hands of civilians. Same story with landmines, hand grenades and nuclear bombs.

 

Lol, and have you ever fired an AR-15 or even seen one before? "Tool of war"... it's a f*cking civilian purpose rifle. AR-15 is probably less dangerous than any handgun I would argue due to its size preventing it from being concealed. The two we have are specifically built to adhere to NYS law, no flash suppressors, 10 round magazines, no pistol grip... just a lot of fun at the range. It's not the gunmaker nor is it those in law enforcement/civilians gun owner fault when someone uses a gun to kill someone.

Nope. When I was in the army, the didn't allow us to play with guns.

 

Then you should know how different a civilian AR is from a military issue M16A2/A4 if you were in the Army.

 

Dude, you are splitting hairs. My point stands, an AR-15 can be converted to a fully auto weapon that fires the same rounds as an M-4. It's also called a NATO round because it's a goddamned military weapon.

 

I'm not trying to tarnish your service if you were really in the military, but it seems like you don't know much about your weaponry... M4 fires the same rounds as an M16A2/A4 as does an AR-15, the standard 5.56 by 45 NATO round. That's semantics. Are you going to say that a Swiss Army knife shouldn't be used because it has army in the title?

 

You just repeated what I said as an argument against what I said and using our agreeing as fact that I "don't know much about my weaponry?"

 

What?

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Killerdude

The rifle in the OP uses 5.56 NATO rounds(military grade ammo), is Semi-Automatic with a 30 round magazine.

 

How is this a civy weapon again?

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Dingdongs

The rifle in the OP uses 5.56 NATO rounds(military grade ammo), is Semi-Automatic with a 30 round magazine.

 

How is this a civy weapon again?

In New York for example along with many states that have gun laws, you can have a legal AR with a 10 round mag. I don't agree with civilian ownership of a 30 round mag nor do most people who are realistic on gun laws.

 

As for it being semi automatic and using 5.56, first off what is wrong with semi-automatic? How is that inherently militaristic/contrary to civilian definition? And the military also uses 9mm rounds for the M9 handgun, is that also military grade ammo?

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Frank Brown

The rifle in the OP uses 5.56 NATO rounds(military grade ammo), is Semi-Automatic with a 30 round magazine.

 

How is this a civy weapon again?

 

Does the name really matter? The rifle in question can utilize .223 Remington as well.

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Dottie

The rifle in the OP uses 5.56 NATO rounds(military grade ammo), is Semi-Automatic with a 30 round magazine.

 

How is this a civy weapon again?

Semi auto only

 

Same goes with Civilian AK47s (same 7.62x39mm round. Same magazine)

Same as the M1A (civilian M14 using 7.62x51 NATO with same magazines)

the list goes on

 

And any other sporter rifles- military rifles converted to civilian use mainly by limitation of the fire rate to semi auto only and proper aesthetic changes to comply with local firearm laws (for example barrel size)

 

If you're saying we should revert back to bolt actions, due note that those use the exact same rounds as the weapons listed above and also can be converted into semi-auto rifles, legally. or even Full auto light machine guns/battle rifles

also magazine conversion can be done to use 30 round mags in a bolt action rifle too.

Edited by Winning001

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Killerdude

 

The rifle in the OP uses 5.56 NATO rounds(military grade ammo), is Semi-Automatic with a 30 round magazine.

 

How is this a civy weapon again?

Semi auto only

 

Same goes with Civilian AK47s (same 7.62x39mm round. Same magazine)

Same as the M1A (civilian M14 using 7.62x51 NATO with same magazines)

the list goes on

 

And any other sporter rifles- military rifles converted to civilian use mainly by limitation of the fire rate to semi auto only and proper aesthetic changes to comply with local firearm laws (for example barrel size)

 

If you're saying we should revert back to bolt actions, due note that those use the exact same rounds as the weapons listed above and also can be converted into semi-auto rifles, legally. or even Full auto light machine guns

also magazine conversion can be done to use 30 round mags in a bolt action rifle too.

 

It's not necessarily the size of the round, but the volume of rounds that size.

 

I would be perfectly OK if we went back to single shot bolt action rifles utilizing .308 rounds and what have you.

 

I do not agree with civilians owning Semi-Auto/Full-Auto rifles though.

Semi Auto laws in NY make the best of a bad situation, but still.

 

Basically, I'm saying Full-Auto/Semi-Auto rifles should be outlawed.

Edited by Killerdude8

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Dottie

Do you reeeeally think so?

Because Orbez

135398927934.jpg

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Killerdude

I'm not really surprised.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Even with strict gun laws, sh*t like that will slip through the cracks.

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Dingdongs

 


Basically, I'm saying Full-Auto/Semi-Auto rifles should be outlawed.

 

Then what kind of rifles can you still have? Full auto is already unavailable to civilians, probably for the past 30 years in the US automatic weapons have been banned at the federal level. Why can't you have a semi automatic rifle? Why can't we discuss making people go through strict background checks, have waiting periods, require licensing/qualification? Why do we just need to ban everything?

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Dottie

well thats because i can own a semi auto gun with these "gun restrictions"

so im just gonna buy a $100 nagant and hack saw the hell out of it :p

(man do i want one of those. Illegal AF but worth having for the lolz)

Edited by Winning001

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Killerdude

 

 

Basically, I'm saying Full-Auto/Semi-Auto rifles should be outlawed.

 

Then what kind of rifles can you still have? Full auto is already unavailable to civilians, probably for the past 30 years in the US automatic weapons have been banned at the federal level. Why can't you have a semi automatic rifle? Why can't we discuss making people go through strict background checks, have waiting periods, require licensing/qualification? Why do we just need to ban everything?

 

Usually nobody wants to discuss background checks, Medical screening or waiting periods.

 

I say apply the 10 round limit nationwide.

More thorough background checks and Medical screening are big ones for me.

Edited by Killerdude8

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AlienTwo

 

 

Basically, I'm saying Full-Auto/Semi-Auto rifles should be outlawed.

 

Then what kind of rifles can you still have? Full auto is already unavailable to civilians, probably for the past 30 years in the US automatic weapons have been banned at the federal level. Why can't you have a semi automatic rifle? Why can't we discuss making people go through strict background checks, have waiting periods, require licensing/qualification? Why do we just need to ban everything?

 

I would love it if we could have that discioussion nationally. I would be willing to support stricter everything in lieu of banning outright, but there is no willingness in Government and most of the general conversations to even discuss stricter controls. It's always "mental health" (yes, a component but much harder to regulate with) or "hands off my guns, libtard!"

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Basically, I'm saying Full-Auto/Semi-Auto rifles should be outlawed.

 

Then what kind of rifles can you still have? Full auto is already unavailable to civilians, probably for the past 30 years in the US automatic weapons have been banned at the federal level. Why can't you have a semi automatic rifle? Why can't we discuss making people go through strict background checks, have waiting periods, require licensing/qualification? Why do we just need to ban everything?

 

Usually nobody wants background checks, Medical screening or waiting periods.

 

I say apply the 10 round limit nationwide and make it more difficult to own a firearm.

I will admit, I'm still not very comfortable with civies owning semi-auto rifles, but this is a compromise.

 

I believe a lot of people on the side of gun control feel this way and would be willing to compromise.

Edited by Alien

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Dottie

 

 

 

Basically, I'm saying Full-Auto/Semi-Auto rifles should be outlawed.

 

Then what kind of rifles can you still have? Full auto is already unavailable to civilians, probably for the past 30 years in the US automatic weapons have been banned at the federal level. Why can't you have a semi automatic rifle? Why can't we discuss making people go through strict background checks, have waiting periods, require licensing/qualification? Why do we just need to ban everything?

 

Usually nobody wants background checks, Medical screening or waiting periods.

 

I say apply the 10 round limit nationwide and make it more difficult to own a firearm.

I will admit, I'm still not very comfortable with civies owning semi-auto rifles, but this is a compromise.

 

just think of it as a roid rage person shooting a bolt action really fast

The mag limit is going to be a terribly hard thing to enforce due to the already wide availability of standard capacity magazines

and even high capacity magazines ( round capacity >> 30 )

Edited by Winning001

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Frank Brown

 

 

I say apply the 10 round limit nationwide and make it more difficult to own a firearm.

 

 

Why 10 rounds specifically?

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Killerdude

 

 

 

I say apply the 10 round limit nationwide and make it more difficult to own a firearm.

 

 

Why 10 rounds specifically?

 

Because 30 is excessive. You're owning a firearm for self defence or hunting, Not fighting a war.

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Dottie

 

 

 

 

I say apply the 10 round limit nationwide and make it more difficult to own a firearm.

 

 

Why 10 rounds specifically?

 

Because 30 is excessive. You're owning a firearm for self defence or hunting, Not fighting a war.

 

and why is it exessive?

maybe someone doesnt want to reload so much

also magazines are expensive and cumbersome to carry in large amounts. So why waste money on 30 10rd mags when I can get 10 30rd mags?

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Frank Brown

 

 

 

 

I say apply the 10 round limit nationwide and make it more difficult to own a firearm.

 

 

Why 10 rounds specifically?

 

Because 30 is excessive. You're owning a firearm for self defence or hunting, Not fighting a war.

 

 

You can easily just use a separate magazine.

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