Should Christianity be taught in school as a part of American History?

[Saggy 815]

When we talk about Native American culture and their history, it's often intertwined with their religion. However, has anyone been taught the basic principles and tenets of their religion, the name of it, whonor what they call "god".

 

The influence and history of Christianity in this countey should be taught in the same manner, with little or no thought given to detailing the religion itself, otherwise it be construed with an endorsement of the religious beliefs themselves.

 

For example... Saying the puritans came here fro! England too escape religious oppression, is perfectly valid. To say something like, " They believe in god A and they belived in god B," is a slippery slope, that leads into "...they didn't believe in the true God."

 

They can teach the historical significance while keeping the actual principles anonymous.

[Mister Pinkerton 8,671]

I believe it should be thought as a reminder of how the US failed to create a non-secular governed nation and the non-separation of church and state. Also, it's important to show all aspects of history that shape the social, political and geographical landscape of a nation, positive or negative.

[Clem Fandango 4,754]

They can teach the historical significance while keeping the actual principles anonymous.

I disagree completely. Children should be made familiar with the different types of religion practised in society IMO. I don't think there's an arbitrary point where educating becomes proselytising.

[El Dildo 14,389]

there's just no reason to "teach" Christianity for any reason at any level.

everyone knows about Christianity growing up. and everyone takes a government course in school where they learn about the intersections between Church and State.

 

that's really all the average person needs.

we don't teach Islam or Judaism we don't need to teach Christianity, by the same token that we don't need to teach Christmas. the whole concept is stupid.

 

either you're raised religious and you care about that stuff or you're not and you don't.

if you do then there's already a place for y'all to hang out and discuss your fairly tales with each other; it's called Sunday School. but leave the rest of us out of your imaginary bullish/t.

[Zapp 1,649]

we don't teach Islam

 

Of course, why would you want to teach kids about killing non-believers.

 

Schools shouldn't teach Christianity because the "intelligent atheists" think it's imaginary bullsh*t?

Edited July 24, 2015 by FunkyRJ

[El Dildo 14,389]

well no.

 

they shouldn't teach it because it's unnecessary.

the fact that it's bullish/t is really beside the point

[Eutyphro 2,707]

If they must teach it, it most certainly shouldn't be taught as fact.

Nothing should be 'taught as fact'. That's indoctrination, not education.

[sivispacem 18,743]

Well, facts should be taught as facts. Because they sort of are.

[universetwisters 29,317]

 

If they must teach it, it most certainly shouldn't be taught as fact.

Nothing should be 'taught as fact'. That's indoctrination, not education.

 

You mean to tell me the Vietnam war didn't happen, the confederates won the civil war, Kennedy wasn't assassinated, etc. despite the immense amount of evidence that it did?

[Eutyphro 2,707]

If you want to question whether the Vietnam war happened, who won the American civil war, and whether Kennedy was assassinated, then you should be free to do so. But you are not likely to find reasonable grounds to question these things, and will therefore most likely fail. An essential part of teaching about these topics is providing people with the right to question them. Indoctrination is not education. Indoctrination is training people for stupidity and obedience.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Eutyphro

[Fonz 3,133]

 

we don't teach Islam

 

Of course, why would you want to teach kids about killing non-believers.

Then why do you want to teach them about Christianity? Does raping women in order to marry them sound more pleasant to you? What about degrading women to the status of property, not letting them speak in church, murdering homosexuals, condoning slavery, committing genocide etc.? Because those things are all present in the Bible. My point is that your religion is not above or "purer" than any other and your attempts to make it seem so reek of bigotry. Unless you want to close your eyes, plug your ears and pretend that only the Quran contains bloodshed and atrocities, you have to come to terms with the fact that your doctrine is also full of this type of descriptions (most sensible Christians acknowledge them and admit they're repulsive acts). This racist characterization of all Muslims as extremists is, frankly, retarded. As if the views expressed in the Quran were somehow more reprehensible than the ones in the Bible... I have very little patience for undercover bigots pretending to be sensible, rational people. And just to be clear, I'm an atheist, so I don't adhere to any religion—I just hate hypocrites. Stop pretending your religion is better than anyone else's; they're all on the same level, objectively.

 

Schools shouldn't teach Christianity because the "intelligent atheists" think it's imaginary bullsh*t?

No, it might have something to do with secularism, since the US is, you know, a secular nation. Religion is a part of history and should be looked at in History class for its massive influence. But then you also have to give the other main religions equal attention, because they've had deep impact in other regions (unless you're talking specifically about American history).

Edited July 24, 2015 by Black_MiD

[GTA_stu 8,360]

Religion is a part of history and should be looked at in History class for its massive influence. But then you also have to give the other main religions equal attention, because they've had deep impact in other regions

 

Gotta disagree there. A school curriculum, be it history specifically or anything else, never treats all things equally. There's always a large degree of focus on things that are more relevant and more closely tied to ourselves. I don't see why Judaism or Islam should have to be treated equally in the curriculum and have just as much attention. Still cover them sure. But Christianity is a much more important and relevant religion to America historically and currently, than anything else. It should take precedence. In fact America may be officially secular, but It's still closely tied to Christianity in a lot of ways. "In God we trust", swearing on the Bible when the president takes his oath and of course most people identifying as Christian.

Edited July 24, 2015 by GTA_stu

[Fonz 3,133]

 

Religion is a part of history and should be looked at in History class for its massive influence. But then you also have to give the other main religions equal attention, because they've had deep impact in other regions

 

Gotta disagree there. A school curriculum, be it history specifically or anything else, never treats all things equally. There's always a large degree of focus on things that are more relevant and more closely tied to ourselves. I don't see why Judaism or Islam should have to be treated equally in the curriculum and have just as much attention. Still cover them sure. But Christianity is a much more important and relevant religion to America historically and currently

Yeah, I agree about Christianity being more influential in America, historically, Stu. I actually noticed that and put in a little aside to clear it up, but it was probably not quick enough so you didn't see it. Sorry about that.

 

 

[Zapp 1,649]

I shouldn't have posted in here, I'm not good at all at discussing/arguing about something on the internet. I just don't know how to express myself online. My bad Black_MiD.

[Fonz 3,133]

I shouldn't have posted in here, I'm not good at all at discussing/arguing about something on the internet. I just don't know how to express myself online. My bad Black_MiD.

Well, no need to apologize, man. I just wanted to call your attention to that particular issue; sorry if I employed a harsh tone, too. It's all right

[GTA_stu 8,360]

 

 

Religion is a part of history and should be looked at in History class for its massive influence. But then you also have to give the other main religions equal attention, because they've had deep impact in other regions

 

Gotta disagree there. A school curriculum, be it history specifically or anything else, never treats all things equally. There's always a large degree of focus on things that are more relevant and more closely tied to ourselves. I don't see why Judaism or Islam should have to be treated equally in the curriculum and have just as much attention. Still cover them sure. But Christianity is a much more important and relevant religion to America historically and currently

Yeah, I agree about Christianity being more influential in America, historically, Stu. I actually noticed that and put in a little aside to clear it up, but it was probably not quick enough so you didn't see it. Sorry about that.

 

No I saw it and you'd included it when I read it, but I left it out on purpose when I quoted you because I was only addressing your point about "giving the other main religions equal attention." I left the other part: "unless you're specifically talking about American history" out because it obviously makes sense that when talking about U.S. history that Christianity would get far more attention than other religions.

 

I'm saying in the overall curriculum, I don't see a problem with focusing more on Christianity than other religions. I don't get why Islam or Hinduism or whatever religion, has to be equally focused on and receive the same attention.

Edited July 24, 2015 by GTA_stu

[mr quick 10,355]

 

we don't teach Islam

 

Of course, why would you want to teach kids about killing non-believers.

 

Schools shouldn't teach Christianity because the "intelligent atheists" think it's imaginary bullsh*t?

 

 

Are you a Christian yourself?

[Zapp 1,649]

Yes.

[mr quick 10,355]

You don't want people to be taught about the Islamic religion because it says to kill non-believers, correct?

 

...Despite the fact that the Bible on which you base your faith says explicitly to kill non-believers and those who believe in other deities indiscriminately? Despite the fact that it also says that if one man preaches the word of a false god, all the inhabitants and livestock of the town in which he lives shall be killed and piled together to be burned?

 

My point is not to ridicule your faith but to open your eyes to your glaring hypocrisy. Anyway, it is beyond the point.

 

e: Nevermind, saw your edited post now. Obviously you realized your mistake.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Marwin

[Slam_Jones 703]

I think children should learn about it, to be sure, but absolutely not if it's touted as fact. I'd continue, but it'd get a little too political.

[Fonz 3,133]

 

 

 

Religion is a part of history and should be looked at in History class for its massive influence. But then you also have to give the other main religions equal attention, because they've had deep impact in other regions

 

Gotta disagree there. A school curriculum, be it history specifically or anything else, never treats all things equally. There's always a large degree of focus on things that are more relevant and more closely tied to ourselves. I don't see why Judaism or Islam should have to be treated equally in the curriculum and have just as much attention. Still cover them sure. But Christianity is a much more important and relevant religion to America historically and currently

Yeah, I agree about Christianity being more influential in America, historically, Stu. I actually noticed that and put in a little aside to clear it up, but it was probably not quick enough so you didn't see it. Sorry about that.

 

No I saw it and you'd included it when I read it, but I left it out on purpose when I quoted you because I was only addressing your point about "giving the other main religions equal attention." I left the other part: "unless you're specifically talking about American history" out because it obviously makes sense that when talking about U.S. history that Christianity would get far more attention than other religions.

 

I'm saying in the overall curriculum, I don't see a problem with focusing more on Christianity than other religions. I don't get why Islam or Hinduism or whatever religion, has to be equally focused on and receive the same attention.

 

Oh, I catch you!

 

Well, a school isn't supposed to be partisan on these matters. Just like it shouldn't (although we know teachers sometimes do) endorse specific political views or any sort of ideological commitments. Outside of specific American history, in which Christianity has far more relevance, it's unfair and unjustified to privilege any specific religion, besides being a violation of secularism if it gets to the point where one is deliberately being presented as superior, correct, factual and so on. If we're talking about world history on a broader spectrum, I don't see how you can actually provide a decent analysis without focusing on the impact other religions have had.

In any other instance, either expound all of them equally (since, objectively, they have equal value) or leave it out entirely. I'm against the notion of any school endorsing specific views on politics, religion, sexuality etc. I guess that's what it boils down to.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Black_MiD

[Saggy 815]

 

They can teach the historical significance while keeping the actual principles anonymous.

 

I disagree completely. Children should be made familiar with the different types of religion practised in society IMO. I don't think there's an arbitrary point where educating becomes proselytising.

 

True but you can still teach a historical account that is impartial, and about Christianity or Judaism on another class. Could you imagine how contemptable a historical course trying to teach how Israel became a country would be if it was also necessary to learn all the little caveats of what they believed was? I just think teaching the details of the religion themselves, beyond what is necessary to teach an accurate historical account, should probably have its own discussion.

 

I mean if you think about history worldwide it's impossible to avoid the topic of religion, let alone American history. I think there's a big difference in the amount people want to involve facets of religion into the classroom and how much is necessary for accuracy, and if you go too far down the line in a history lesson ai think it stops being objective.

 

Also, speaking about Vietnam... Did you guys know it wasn't actually a war? At least that is according to my fifth grade teacher after he said we had never lost a war and I brought it up.

[Tampa 276]

Certainly. They don't have to teach the doctrine or principles, but teach how it affected American history. They are teaching the history of Islam, why not Christianity?

[Ukeman5 683]

From my perspective. First off isn't there a religious studies class? That's where it belongs. Secondly,it can be a small factor in certain cases. Such as "Civilising" the west or the 'savage and senile' people's of the Philippines. Ideologies play a role with some actors in such events but only a relatively small one. It's more an actor trying to justify their means. Which is an utter piss-take but there you go.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Ukeman5

[MikeMyth 1,040]

It actually is taught in class, and to the only extent it should be-- from a historic perspective and not a religious one.

[LeftyGuns 38]

Certainly. They don't have to teach the doctrine or principles, but teach how it affected American history. They are teaching the history of Islam, why not Christianity?

Because most middle eastern governments are tied directly to Islam. The government of the United States is not tied to Christianity.

[Hayduke 327]

there's just no reason to "teach" Christianity for any reason at any level.

everyone knows about Christianity growing up. and everyone takes a government course in school where they learn about the intersections between Church and State.

 

that's really all the average person needs.

we don't teach Islam or Judaism we don't need to teach Christianity, by the same token that we don't need to teach Christmas. the whole concept is stupid.

 

either you're raised religious and you care about that stuff or you're not and you don't.

if you do then there's already a place for y'all to hang out and discuss your fairly tales with each other; it's called Sunday School. but leave the rest of us out of your imaginary bullish/t.

I don't know about the US, but in Britain everyone is tought about Judaism and Islam on a basic level, along with other religions, there's a whole class dedicated to it. Even history lessons mention these religions when necessary.

 

Religion exists regardless of whether or not you like it and refusing to even mention any religion in an education system is completely unhelpful to education, not to mention that these kids are going to be as confused as sh*t when they step into the real world and possibly fearful of those who do hold religious views. There's a difference between promoting religion in schools and having a secular education teach about religions. To not teach about the outside world because aspects of the outside world clashes with your views promotes ignorance and follows many of the traits thrown at the religious by their accusers.

[El Dildo 14,389]

slow down.

I didn't say you couldn't mention it.

 

in fact, I admitted that religion will likely always be there, and kids will always grow up knowing about it one way or another.

the point however is that there's really no good reason to "teach" religions to anyone outside of church.

 

if you want to take Comparative Religious Studies in college then go for it. I did.

but basic K-12 curriculum should never include a religious class.

 

why should it?

nobody said we cannot teach about culture and art and music and history. but there's no need to throw in religious dogma. obviously it's impossible to talk about history and art without talking about religion because their foundations are so intertwined with our primitive nature. you can teach children about "the outside world" without reading the bible or the quran or the vedas. that was my only point.

[Hayduke 327]

Yes, I understood that, hence my point has not changed. How do you expect a human being to form an articulated opinion on a subject if they're completely ignorant on the subject matter? Religion is a fundamental part of society, particularly in the United States, frankly I think it would be more worthwhile if children were tought much more extensively when it comes to world religions. Even the famous anti religious cheerleaders, maybe especially them, are well versed in the religions they are or were disavowing. It's fundamentally important to be aware of what you're disagreeing with, particularly if it's an ingrained part of society and it's particularly important to explore the subject impartially in a learning environment. In fact, better they learn it academically rather than have a confused ignorant kid who was barred from understanding a religion finding out about the religion from someone who has a stake in promoting the religion.

[Tampa 276]

Better yet, give the students a choice. They can learn about religious studies if they want, and they don't have to if they don't want to.