Grand Theft Auto III Pre-Release Discussion

[Silver]

1 hour ago, H-G said:

Maybe the actual head of the family, Kazuki\Kenji\Asuka's father, is supposed to be still alive? Which might explain how the Yakuza are only weakened by the death of their leaders, but never wiped out in LCS and III.

My guess is they forgot to adjust things when they cut Toshiro and never bothered changing Kenji/Asuka's role within the Yakuza, but like you suggested the leader may still be alive, maybe operating things outside of LC hence why they're never mentioned.

[Anywhere USA]

10 hours ago, H-G said:

Maybe the actual head of the family, Kazuki\Kenji\Asuka's father, is supposed to be still alive? Which might explain how the Yakuza are only weakened by the death of their leaders, but never wiped out in LCS and III.

Asuka's rank is never said, so I guess she could be the Oyabun? But that's never mentioned, both the LCPD file and her dialogue imply she's an equal with Kenji. They also both moved up to replace Kazuki, who himself was a Waka Gashira.

 

It obviously WAS Toshiro originally, maybe they just forgot to bump someone else up. Doesn't explain Kazuki tho. If they wanted to say neither Asuka or Kenji were full Oyabun and they co-ran it as both Waka Gashira I could sort of buy it, but Kazuki's been around the block for a while. Maybe Rockstar literally just forgot the word...

8 hours ago, Legomanarthur said:

My guess is they forgot to adjust things when they cut Toshiro and never bothered changing Kenji/Asuka's role within the Yakuza, but like you suggested the leader may still be alive, maybe operating things outside of LC hence why they're never mentioned.

That's more or less how GTA 2 handles things. You never meet the actual 'Heads' of any of the gangs, just underbosses(Albeit in some cases the underboss is the real power, and the actual leader is a puppet, like the Yakuza leader being a dribbling old man or the Hare Krishna leader being a fat horndog who isn't involved in the militant side of the cult).

 

You never meet or kill Hollow Kost. You kill his underlings Welsh, Valdez, and Carbine. You never meet or kill Professor Lars. You kill his second in command Labrat. You never meet or kill Governor Rotten, you take out Elmo.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Anywhere USA

[Anywhere USA]

On 6/25/2024 at 7:20 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Asuka's rank is never said, so I guess she could be the Oyabun? But that's never mentioned, both the LCPD file and her dialogue imply she's an equal with Kenji. They also both moved up to replace Kazuki, who himself was a Waka Gashira.

 

It obviously WAS Toshiro originally, maybe they just forgot to bump someone else up. Doesn't explain Kazuki tho. If they wanted to say neither Asuka or Kenji were full Oyabun and they co-ran it as both Waka Gashira I could sort of buy it, but Kazuki's been around the block for a while. Maybe Rockstar literally just forgot the word...

That's more or less how GTA 2 handles things. You never meet the actual 'Heads' of any of the gangs, just underbosses(Albeit in some cases the underboss is the real power, and the actual leader is a puppet, like the Yakuza leader being a dribbling old man or the Hare Krishna leader being a fat horndog who isn't involved in the militant side of the cult).

 

You never meet or kill Hollow Kost. You kill his underlings Welsh, Valdez, and Carbine. You never meet or kill Professor Lars. You kill his second in command Labrat. You never meet or kill Governor Rotten, you take out Elmo.

Those are the 3 cases where it's really clear the Top Boss has all the power and we just never get to them. Lars is also mentioned in game a couple times by LaBrat so it's not just website lore.

The Yakuza Guy and Master Lepus are both puppets. By killing the Underboss you gut them.

The Russians and Rednecks are a bit hard to pin down. The former guy is in a wheelchair at this point unable to run the day to day, but he's mentally sharp and incredibly violent or dangerous so he's probably still calling the charge. And the Rednecks don't have a website confirmed leader due to no police report, if it's Grandpa Bean he's a blind puppet, if it's Papa Bean he's probably the real power.

 

You can learn a lot about 2 from the website. Uno Carbine is a master marksman and sharp shooter(hence the nickname 'One Gun'), Trey Welsh is a psychotic chemical and pharmaceutical genius who's basically Jekylling himself, and Red Valdez is a cold super soldier monster who everyone fears and may or may not be human. Hollow Kost is a cold, calculating business genius who keeps the other 3 in check. Oh and they're concerned about a 'guy' who broke out of prison(Claude Speed). The SRS are basically Eugenicists run by Lars, an Ex-Zaibatsu scientist who broke off after his genetics research fell into question and is now breeding a race of super humans to take over the world(All the SRS guys you see on the streets are clones. The only real members are Professor Lars, Doctor LaBrat, and Mama Doc). The Yakuza are psychotically violent and one of their lead guys enjoying killing people as slowly as possible. Most of the members of the Loonies were originally sane and got drugged and kidnapped by Rotten and Elmo. The Russians are dependant on smuggling and control all the docks.

Edited June 30, 2024 by Anywhere USA

[Anywhere USA]

On 6/25/2024 at 7:20 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Asuka's rank is never said, so I guess she could be the Oyabun? But that's never mentioned, both the LCPD file and her dialogue imply she's an equal with Kenji. They also both moved up to replace Kazuki, who himself was a Waka Gashira.

 

 

My best guess is Rockstar forgot the word Oyabun when doing LCS and just looked at 3. (I don't think this is a Triad situation where the real head of the operation is overseas, like the Liberty City Triads who are run by that Chiang Guy from Hong Kong who controls all the front organizations, and the highest ranking guys in the city are the 3 Warlords who are PROBABLY the Wong Brothers we see in LCS. The Yakuza have been in Liberty longer than any other non-mafia gang).

 

So if that's the case Kazuki was the Oyabun(Rockstar just forgot the word), Tony killed him, and his two highest ranking subordinates took over.(They ARE called Co-Leaders, we know they are in charge. Let's just say they both take the title Waka Gashira since there can't be two Oyabuns and that makes it harder to sniff them out). Asuka was the higher ranking of the two under Kazuki(she arrived in the city 5 years earlier then Kenji and already has her Condo while Kenji didn't have the casino until near the end of the game), but she co ran things with her bro when Kazuki died. Then after Kenji dies(we never hear her title again) she takes the full position as Oyabun before dying herself.

 

(I always kind of wondered what Liberty City 3D era would look like in 2003 or something. Claude f*cked up everyone more or less(except the hoods...the gang who's leader is already arrested). Like the Cartel has lost a sh*t load of guys and all it's leadership, the Yakuza has lost all it's leadership, the Leones are pushed into a corner, the Triads lost their main business and command, the Diablos and Yardies lost their allies and are at war, the Hoods leader is in jail). Who would take over the Yakuza after Kenji and Asuka died? Kanbu(who is seemingly qualified and highly ranked by 3?). Yuka?(Family, but only like 19 or 20 by the time of 3). Same with the Leones, Joey's the heir but Toni is higher ranked and knows his sh*t. Who's Mickey and Luigi backing?

 

Speaking of which, I have on and off worked on a sort of map evolution of Liberty City from 1997 to 2001.  I know how things look at the start of LCS. I also know how they look right before LCS thanks to both dialogue(Sindaccos dealing in North Chinatown is a brand new issue that popped up shortly before Toni arrived) and the websites(The Triads showed up in July 1997 after the Hong Kong handover, the Diablos also at some point in 1997, probably November given it's a wink wink GTA 1 reference, though neither fully controlled territory until 1998 when they got Sicilian backing and took advantage of the war). So I know 1997's map, Leone's fully control Chinatown, no Triad or Diablo presense anywhere. That's about as far back as I comfortably know. (The Hoods were formed in 1996 or at least got on the police radar that year, though again they couldn't control anything until the Forelli's collapsed in LCS). Exactly when the Colombians, Yakuza, and Yardies showed up is hard to say. The Yakuza got Asuka in 1991 so clearly existed prior, and while I can no longer find it I swear I read something about how they've been active in the city since the early 70s. GTA 3's website alludes to the Colombians growing in the city after being forced out of Colombia(so around 1993 after Pablo's death), but Joey claims they're 'new'(though given his knowledge of the situation I don't trust him on this). The LCS dialogue instead suggests they rose out of one of the collapsed factions in Vice City(so either Mendez or Diaz's operation...or both). And zero clue for the Yardies, nothing, they're probably an old ass street gang. They didn't control anything significant until the Sindaccos and Forelli's tore-eachother apart and then they got in on the drug business, but they EXISTED for longer than any other street gang.

 

If I had to guess prior to the early 1990s the only full control was either the 3 families or the Kasen Yakuza, Colombians showed up in the 80s, but only fully took control of Shoreside territory in the early 90s after getting more men from the home country.

 

RAMBLING CONTINUES

Of course that raises the question of what exactly happened in the war Toni got exiled because of. He killed a made man(so a Sindacco or Forelli) '4 years ago' (probably not exact, but given we know LCS starts in May 1998 let's say early 1994), and it's IMPLIED(Not confirmed, but implied) this is probably the same war that was simmering during the Las Venturas segment of San Andreas(which is either late 1992 or early 1993, as I've said before, we know OG Loc's album was 1992 so the LS and Rural Exile stuff is 1992, and we know Mad Dog's album is 1993 so the Return to Los Santos stuff is 1993 or mostly 1993, but the San Fierro, Desert, and Las Venturas stuff could be either, no way to tell, though I'd wager by Las Venturas it's 1993 as the Gurning Chimps are still MIA by the end of the game radio broadcast and according to Maccer's website they were lost for '5 months', so Don Peyote is LESS than 5 months from the end of the game.) and fully broke out after Johnny's death and the collapse of the Casino Partnership(initially all 3 sides wanted to be subtleish, the Sindaccos being the weakest wanted a fair deal, both the Forelli's and Leones tried to disguise their hits as 'ambulance accidents' or 'some random black dude shot up the Bistro').

 

So there was like a year long war(possibly closer to year and a half) after SA that ultimately resulted in the situation we see in LCS. We don't even really know what happened other than the Forellli's lost the Bistro, the Leones kept their mansion and Joey's place and Toni's Mom's place(which they already had in 1992), and SOMETHING happened in the Red Light Distict with JD O'Toole(the dialogue early in LCS implies some history we dont' have the context for). Also zero clue who controlled what broadly prior(though if I had to guess Harwood was probably Forelli run prior given they sent Tommy on a deal there in the 70s and they had the most involvement with the Ferries, would also explain Sal's issues with controlling them). If I had to guess it was a war where the Sindaccos and Leones initially worked together to push the Forelli's out of Portland, then fought eachother over control of the new territory with the Sindacco's winning Hepburn and Red Light district and the Leones securing Harwood and the rest of Saint Marks, though that's just a headcanon with evidence at that point.

[GTAFanLuca]

Interesting theories here. I have one question.

 

Where did you get the information about the made man getting killed in 1994? If it is from GTA Wiki, we ourselves have marked it as sourceless information for some time now. Maybe you can shed some light on this.

[Anywhere USA]

2 hours ago, GTAFanLuca said:

Interesting theories here. I have one question.

 

Where did you get the information about the made man getting killed in 1994? If it is from GTA Wiki, we ourselves have marked it as sourceless information for some time now. Maybe you can shed some light on this.

Wikipedia said 4 years 

[cant remember]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:11 AM, Mattheush said:

How high is percentage, that is an actual beta version and not a fake?

0%. Biggest give-away that it's a modded PC version is the mouse-look when he's on foot.

[Martin4004]

On 6/30/2024 at 11:46 PM, Anywhere USA said:

My best guess is Rockstar forgot the word Oyabun when doing LCS and just looked at 3. (I don't think this is a Triad situation where the real head of the operation is overseas, like the Liberty City Triads who are run by that Chiang Guy from Hong Kong who controls all the front organizations, and the highest ranking guys in the city are the 3 Warlords who are PROBABLY the Wong Brothers we see in LCS. The Yakuza have been in Liberty longer than any other non-mafia gang).

Who the heck is Chiang? As for the Triad Warlords in GTA LCS, how are we supposed to say it's The Wong Brothers featured in a SIDE MISSION WHICH ARE NOT RELATED IN NATURE TO THE LORE WHATSOEVER?

 

On 6/30/2024 at 11:46 PM, Anywhere USA said:

GTA 3's website alludes to the Colombians growing in the city after being forced out of Colombia(so around 1993 after Pablo's death), but Joey claims they're 'new'(though given his knowledge of the situation I don't trust him on this). The LCS dialogue instead suggests they rose out of one of the collapsed factions in Vice City(so either Mendez or Diaz's operation...or both). And zero clue for the Yardies, nothing, they're probably an old ass street gang. They didn't control anything significant until the Sindaccos and Forelli's tore each other apart and then they got in on the drug business, but they EXISTED for longer than any other street gang.

How exactly does it allude to Colombians being present in Liberty City since 1993? If anything, I would say 1997 is far more likely because of the Barry Harcross scandal from February 2001 if we are only limited to GTA 3 in terms of analysis. As far as this LCS dialogue goes, I remember they only mentioned that they once owned a mansion in Vice City without even giving an exact date so it's hard to evaluate really. 

 

On 6/30/2024 at 11:46 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Of course that raises the question of what exactly happened in the war Toni got exiled because of. He killed a made man(so a Sindacco or Forelli) '4 years ago' (probably not exact, but given we know LCS starts in May 1998 let's say early 1994)

So going by your way of thinking I can "let's say" it happened in 1996 instead of 1994. No offense man, but using information from the kind of "source: trust me bro" and saying it happened in 1994 out of the blue or just because people say it highly decreases the credibility of such an analysis

 

On 6/30/2024 at 11:46 PM, Anywhere USA said:

(which is either late 1992 or early 1993, as I've said before, we know OG Loc's album was 1992 so the LS and Rural Exile stuff is 1992, and we know Mad Dog's album is 1993 so the Return to Los Santos stuff is 1993 or mostly 1993, but the San Fierro, Desert, and Las Venturas stuff could be either, no way to tell, though I'd wager by Las Venturas it's 1993 as the Gurning Chimps are still MIA by the end of the game radio broadcast and according to Maccer's website they were lost for '5 months', so Don Peyote is LESS than 5 months from the end of the game.)

That's actually a very smart way of how we can try to put all these events on the timeline by using the "West Coast Rap Legends" teaser site, I like it

 

On 7/1/2024 at 10:12 AM, Anywhere USA said:

Wikipedia said 4 years 

So pretty much the source: trust me, bro. Where exactly does it come from that it happened exactly in 1994? Bring it on, brother

[Anywhere USA]

2 hours ago, Martin4004 said:

Who the heck is Chiang? As for the Triad Warlords in GTA LCS, how are we supposed to say it's The Wong Brothers featured in a SIDE MISSION WHICH ARE NOT RELATED IN NATURE TO THE LORE WHATSOEVER?

 

How exactly does it allude to Colombians being present in Liberty City since 1993? If anything, I would say 1997 is far more likely because of the Barry Harcross scandal from February 2001 if we are only limited to GTA 3 in terms of analysis. As far as this LCS dialogue goes, I remember they only mentioned that they once owned a mansion in Vice City without even giving an exact date so it's hard to evaluate really. 

 

So going by your way of thinking I can "let's say" it happened in 1996 instead of 1994. No offense man, but using information from the kind of "source: trust me bro" and saying it happened in 1994 out of the blue or just because people say it highly decreases the credibility of such an analysis

 

That's actually a very smart way of how we can try to put all these events on the timeline by using the "West Coast Rap Legends" teaser site, I like it

 

So pretty much the source: trust me, bro. Where exactly does it come from that it happened exactly in 1994? Bring it on, brother

Chiang is the Hong Kong guy running the front factories. I know the Triads came from Hong Kong one website says so, another map shows the fishing plants are a front, and Blow Fish says the Mackeral Plant is a front. 
 

Wong Brothers are the only named Triads besides Chiang Industries and Hung Well, and 3 established that Mr. Wongs Laundromat is a front,  pretty big front given all the vans and Toni prioritizing it. I assumed that those Triads Wongs and that Triad Wong were the same. 
 

I’ve seen 4 mentioned every time someone gives a year. It’s on the official Wikipedia description of the games plot, it’s on a YouTube review, I’ve seen it mentioned when people debunk CJ theory. I assume it was from a website or something because it’s everywhere.

 

Thanks.

 

It’s what I always hear. Four years after killing a made man Toni blah blah 

[GTAFanLuca]

All mentions of 1994 have been removed from GTA Wiki. We have been trying to find a source for the claim for a while, and this post was the final nail in the coffin.

 

It's most likely that Wikipedia got the information from us. Well, it's now all fixed on our side.

[Martin4004]

On 7/2/2024 at 11:14 PM, Anywhere USA said:

Chiang is the Hong Kong guy running the front factories. I know the Triads came from Hong Kong one website says so, another map shows the fishing plants are a front, and Blow Fish says the Mackeral Plant is a front. 
 

Wong Brothers are the only named Triads besides Chiang Industries and Hung Well, and 3 established that Mr. Wongs Laundromat is a front,  pretty big front given all the vans and Toni prioritizing it. I assumed that those Triads Wongs and that Triad Wong were the same. 
 

I’ve seen 4 mentioned every time someone gives a year. It’s on the official Wikipedia description of the games plot, it’s on a YouTube review, I’ve seen it mentioned when people debunk CJ theory. I assume it was from a website or something because it’s everywhere.

 

Thanks.

 

It’s what I always hear. Four years after killing a made man Toni blah blah 

Chiang? I think you meant Cheung Industries which actually are based in Shanghai  There is no information about a person named Cheung either, just the corporation/company that's connected to the Triads. 

 

True, but it's not directly said that Triad Warlords in LCS are them specifically, let alone the fact it's a side mission. Rockstar never used side missions to reference something lore-wise, at least as far as the 3D universe goes.

 

Back to the issue of 1994, yes, tens of sources mention this year but the thing is - just because many people say something doesn't necessarily mean it's true. And that's also the case about rumors and assumptions based on nothing, someone shares such a piece of information with someone else, and it goes on and on between more people until they start to believe it's canon just because many people heard about it. It's still ridiculous to me how easily you can tell the GTA community about something without even bringing up any source and suddenly it becomes "legit" from their POV. It's primarily why GTA Wiki or even Wikipedia should be trusted with a grain of salt because of this sh*t. Remember, if you are reading something about GTA, check the sources and above all where it comes from within the game, that's how easily people get manipulated by literal disinformation. 

Edited July 4, 2024 by Martin4004
typos

[jaydeedilla]

https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Liberty_Tree/Spank_Here_to_Slay

 

I wonder if the "European DJ" playing in Liberty City mentioned in this pre-release Liberty Tree article could've been a subtle hint at Tom Novy's appearance within the game.

 

Interesting too how they specified the crowd dances like German vermin to this DJs music. Tom Novy is German. It's too oddly specific for me to be a coincidence, to be honest. 

Edited July 9, 2024 by jaydeedilla

[Anywhere USA]

On 7/2/2024 at 9:41 PM, GTAFanLuca said:

All mentions of 1994 have been removed from GTA Wiki. We have been trying to find a source for the claim for a while, and this post was the final nail in the coffin.

 

It's most likely that Wikipedia got the information from us. Well, it's now all fixed on our side.

Dang I hate misinformation.

 

I still think it's likely it was something to do with the war CJ started because...well the timing and the fact that was the previous game

https://worthplaying.com/article/2005/11/17/reviews/29088-psp-review-gta-liberty-city-stories/

Oldest mention I could find from a quick google

https://worthplaying.com/article/2005/10/1/news/27864-gta-liberty-city-stories-psp-gets-multiplayer-screens-trailer/

Same website even earlier. Where did they get it from

[super_slav]

On 6/23/2024 at 10:52 PM, Jeansowaty said:

390 - this is a house music excerpt played in Hepburn Heights, the riff originates from Bizzare Inc.'s - Took My Love but is not identical. Most identify it as DJ Roadrunner - Floating Waves which seems accurate but the date of release of this track is strange, being 2007? I have not found any earlier releases by DJ Roadrunner BUT it was used in a SpongeBob Squarepants episode dating back to 2006, a year earlier! Strange, huh. And also, here I want to bring you an interesting album by Cyrille Verdeaux and Pascal Menetrey (RIP) titled Tribal Hybrid Concept. It appears that someone at Rockstar really loved this album by how many things tied to it can be found in the files. The song Guimbarde Blues samples the same riff featured here but it appears the original sample of the riff is older than 1999 when the album was released. 

https://www.whosampled.com/sample/979560/Frame-I-Feel-It-Bizarre-Inc-Angie-Brown-Took-My-Love/

 

It is from 1992

[Blaze]

I was doing some digging on Gamemasters website via wayback machine and stumbled across some stuff from a website dubbed win-gta3.com - I apologize in advance if some of this stuff has been seen before but I thought I'd share on the off chance it hasn't. I used Google's Reverse Image search to see if they popped up, no dice for the first one, but again I do apologize if this isn't new.

 

 

I believe this is a generic promo screen sent to review outlets, however the only other results I could find of it had the police textures changed to black.

 

 

I did find this circulating around but I'll post again for prosperity.

 

 

Not sure if this would be official R* work or not, III desktops.

 

 

Site also had this but unfortunately, full size isn't available.

 

 

If anyone wants to try and dig around to see if they can find anything else;

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20020611200418/http://www.colx.com/gta/

 

 

 

 

 

[cant remember]

On 7/17/2024 at 1:05 PM, Blaze said:

I was doing some digging on Gamemasters website via wayback machine and stumbled across some stuff from a website dubbed win-gta3.com - I apologize in advance if some of this stuff has been seen before but I thought I'd share on the off chance it hasn't. I used Google's Reverse Image search to see if they popped up, no dice for the first one, but again I do apologize if this isn't new.

 

 

I believe this is a generic promo screen sent to review outlets, however the only other results I could find of it had the police textures changed to black.

 

 

I did find this circulating around but I'll post again for prosperity.

 

 

Not sure if this would be official R* work or not, III desktops.

 

 

Site also had this but unfortunately, full size isn't available.

 

 

If anyone wants to try and dig around to see if they can find anything else;

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20020611200418/http://www.colx.com/gta/

 

 

 

 

 

The three screenshots I found them on Gouranga's screenshot page also, still with the blue cop cars.

The desktops, I think they're a mashup of various renders, the small one looks like it's the Cheetah and Esperanto renders from the dealership site (forgot the name)

[=OG4life=]

On 6/18/2024 at 12:03 AM, Anywhere USA said:

The thing that immediately sticks out like a sore thumb to me is that Belleville Park(probably Liberty Park at this point) was actually temporarily cut when the Construction Site took it's original spot. It wasn't moved to it's original location til the late June early july era map renders(by which point Staunton is mostly the same as today barrring the Peninsula in Newport).

 

This means 3 buildings that(based on the Xs which if we look at which areas are developed and which are white on the prior map seemingly marks finished areas) were fully complete were cut to make room for Belleville Park.

Which combined with the fact I see Bank on the side list(and the side list is not 100% to the map with the crossed out areas)...reminds me of an old theory I had.

 

Can someone give me a rough outline of what Jigglypuff Ghost Town looks like seen from above? I've got a hunch.

 

(P.S. Seemingly at this point the Docks/Harbor area was still going to be it's original more built up size. If you ignore what I assume are meant to be moored barges in the first image it was still basically the same as the original plan at this point.)

(P.P.S. Also I found the source for the people who were saying the bank was originally in Portland. It's a multiplayer map that's an expanded version of the Bank already there. Not what I was referring to).

I'm not sure it wasn't in the game at that time, Belleville Park that is. If you zoom into the old Staunton map sketch/render to analyze its contents you will see something resembling it in a completely different place though. Check it out in an old post in this same thread I made:
 

EDIT: Sorry, my bad..didn't read the whole thread to notice you found out about it..nice

Edited July 19, 2024 by =OG4life=

[Anywhere USA]

6 hours ago, =OG4life= said:

I'm not sure it wasn't in the game at that time, Belleville Park that is. If you zoom into the old Staunton map sketch/render to analyze its contents you will see something resembling it in a completely different place though. Check it out in an old post in this same thread I made:
 

EDIT: Sorry, my bad..didn't read the whole thread to notice you found out about it..nice

Confused by what you’re saying here 

[Anywhere USA]

6 hours ago, =OG4life= said:

I'm not sure it wasn't in the game at that time, Belleville Park that is. If you zoom into the old Staunton map sketch/render to analyze its contents you will see something resembling it in a completely different place though. Check it out in an old post in this same thread I made:
 

EDIT: Sorry, my bad..didn't read the whole thread to notice you found out about it..nice

Oh do you the park being in New Port.

Eh. Maybe? In that case I’d actually suspect they originally had two parks (Since there is very clearly greenery in that north east spot). The one in the North east also lines up size wise literally perfectly. Just cut off tbe triangle and rotate it and it’s one to one. I’m not sure though, could also be the rooftop garden.

 

Regardless, by the time of the map with all the X’s and stuff they had clearly abandoned that idea. It’s completely blued over and marked for buildings. If it had been intended to be a park at some point(maybe, based on the pink underneath) by the time of that map it was abandoned. Doesn’t really change my base point that 3 buildings got cut from the central spot and I suspect the Bank and one of the City Hall/Courthouse/Art Gallery(such a mess of things and repeats and changes and dual uses and conflicting info and City Hall Vs Town Hall Vs Old City Hall, pOINT IS A BUILDING WAS CUT IN THE DESIGN DOC) buildings cut would be there. Plus a third building. My process of elimination suggested something Yakuza, but hard to say.

That specific map was clearly a living and changing one given several repeat entries and how vague the initial ones are, plus some colors missing and stuff being colored over. I’d love to see just one other example of it, whether from a week earlier or a week later or something.

 

With all the leaks the last two years I’ve shocked we’ve gotten no new Beta Maps at minimum.

[Anywhere USA]

GTA 4 had a Beta Map leak. Where’s our new cool stuff? I’m not even asking for like a February build or anything just a map 

[universetwisters]

3 hours ago, Anywhere USA said:

GTA 4 had a Beta Map leak. Where’s our new cool stuff? I’m not even asking for like a February build or anything just a map 

 

I mean we got the GDD for III (even if its a partial), that's more than we got for IV

[Anywhere USA]

5 hours ago, universetwisters said:

 

I mean we got the GDD for III (even if its a partial), that's more than we got for IV

WE didn't get sh*t. GTA-Series-Videos got it

9 hours ago, Anywhere USA said:

GTA 4 had a Beta Map leak. Where’s our new cool stuff? I’m not even asking for like a February build or anything just a map 

(Talking about actual major changes BTW, it's minor and additive. Bohan has an extra bit of land to the north, Alderney has an extra peninsula of rural space in the North, the Airport is a bit bigger. They could pop those on pretty easily if they brought back LC, in fact I hope they do)

[universetwisters]

27 minutes ago, Anywhere USA said:

WE didn't get sh*t. GTA-Series-Videos got it

Okay but I mean that’s a lot more beta information we got for III than we got for IV.

[Anywhere USA]

I just feel like we're one good lead away from cracking a ton of mysteries. One earlier Beta Map from Spring 2001, a build from January or February of 2001, something like that

[Jeansowaty]

On 7/16/2024 at 8:13 PM, super_slav said:

https://www.whosampled.com/sample/979560/Frame-I-Feel-It-Bizarre-Inc-Angie-Brown-Took-My-Love/

 

It is from 1992

This song yes, but the riff is not identical. 

[Anywhere USA]

On 6/24/2024 at 1:05 AM, Anywhere USA said:

Ok one thing then. The intermediate one, the one from when they gave up on this map and scaled back. I’ve seen what it looks like on there and it’s not a park 

In this one it looks like a housing block, meanwhile there’s still that tree filled area in the North 

So to me this reads like they planned two parks, scrapped one, briefly scrapped both, and then merged the ideas.

 

The Pond and lodging in the first beta map look similar to the modern day Belleville Park. But there’s also a green absolutely tree filled one in the North that matches the shape almost exactly.

 

By the second map the former one is gone and they’re considering putting housing or something there. By the third map they still are doing that, but the tree filled park is completely cut l. So we’ve gone from 2 to 0. (Or 3 to 1, the Aspatria Coastal Park is still there, but you know what I mean).

 

The current one is almost a hybrid, the pond and lodging and basketball court of one and the tree filled highly vegetated design and exact proportions of the other, moved to a 3rd spot.

 

That also raises the possibility one of the buildings in the modern park spot(specially the northern most one) is the Newport Mall and it got moved. The shape is vaguely similar. That would still leave the other two to be the cut CityHall/TownHall/Courthouse/Museum/ArtGalleryTHING(see above it’s messy as crap) and the Bank respectively. 

Maybe that’s also why that tumor of land showed up, it was meant to fill the role of the second park. Just a theory though.

 

On the subject of speculation, what do you guys think those weird X/Cross shaped structures in one of the cut northern blocks are 

[Caps king]

On 6/16/2024 at 3:05 PM, TractorMTZ said:

I found on Youtibe GTA III prototype gameplay with Tom Novy music

This is indeed fake

[MSX98FMDnB]

On 7/30/2024 at 5:09 PM, Caps king said:

This is indeed fake

its so blatantly fake i cant understand how people would fall for it lmao

[jaydeedilla]

You can literally see the person playing with mouse controls... how can anyone actually be this gullible..

[Spider-Vice]

The fake VCR recording effect  

 

Also, I know it's public knowledge by now, but I've taken the liberty to rehost the R* E3 2001 press-kit on our servers, zipped instead of in a bin/cue CD rip. It includes stuff for all of their games of that time, but it includes GTA III, so:

https://download.gtanet.com/legacy/E3_ASSETS_ROCKSTAR_2001.zip

 

Edit: Internet Archive image link plus CD scan

https://archive.org/details/redump-id-69902

Spoiler