Grand Theft Auto III Pre-Release Discussion

[tiendadany17]

hello I just registered to share something I discovered

https://imgur.com/a/p9hAHWZ

it seems that the alley where we do the luigi missions did not exist, there was something different

 

Sorry my bad english

 

 

 

[Jinx.]

12 hours ago, tiendadany17 said:

hello I just registered to share something I discovered

https://imgur.com/a/p9hAHWZ

it seems that the alley where we do the luigi missions did not exist, there was something different

 

Sorry my bad english

 

 

 

It did. That's just a LOD.

[tiendadany17]

19 hours ago, Jinx. said:

Lo hizo. Eso es solo un LOD.

This is where I understand the LOD usually contains beta textures, the same thing happens with San Andreas

[Jinx.]

1 hour ago, tiendadany17 said:

This is where I understand the LOD usually contains beta textures, the same thing happens with San Andreas

Not in this case. There are enough pics that show it had an alleyway. Not to mention the LODs in III are done fairly late.

[tiendadany17]

14 hours ago, Jinx. said:

Not in this case. There are enough pics that show it had an alleyway. Not to mention the LODs in III are done fairly late.

I understand friend, so you think it is not worth continuing to review the LOD textures of the game?

[Jinx.]

10 hours ago, tiendadany17 said:

I understand friend, so you think it is not worth continuing to review the LOD textures of the game?

I never said that. I said that Luigi does not have an alleyway.

[tiendadany17]

13 hours ago, Jinx. said:

I never said that. I said that Luigi does not have an alleyway.

I say this because I discovered a method to be able to see the LOD textures on PS2 and I have seen some differences, for example in the fire station you see different textures or in saint mark you see buildings that seem to be of different colors, but I don't know if it could be consider BETA or not, that's why I ask you who have more knowledge about the game if it's worth continuing to search in the LOD or not, excuse me in case my post has not been relevant

[Jinx.]

You totally should continue

[super_slav]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:24 PM, Jinx. said:

Not to mention the LODs in III are done fairly late.

I would not say they are done late, look at VC's second island the LOD has the ATC tower and extra runway and a missing stadium, The LOD's often go unchecked and forgotten so there are allot of beta elements in LOD's especially that era of GTA titles. LOD's are done as the buildings are first made and then often get forgotten about as you dont really look at them during game play.

[Jinx.]

55 minutes ago, super_slav said:

I would not say they are done late, look at VC's second island the LOD has the ATC tower and extra runway and a missing stadium, The LOD's often go unchecked and forgotten so there are allot of beta elements in LOD's especially that era of GTA titles. LOD's are done as the buildings are first made and then often get forgotten about as you dont really look at them during game play.

I'm still saying they are done late, and I have good reasons to say so. The LOD in III, in particular the Super LOD, is about as old as the manual render, maybe slightly newer but not by a lot. It's very noticeable in Staunton where you see the same buildings near the College district (which in turn were reused from an even earlier version of the map). There are screenshots showing this specific map, mainly the ones showing that one changed building near the subway entrance in Portland. This version of the map must be from a version a bit before E3 2001. There is a magazine where this specific map shows the Luigi's Club alleyway.

 

While the Super LOD has a few differences, the normal one is fairly similar to the final game, which is pretty much identical to what was shown in the playable E3 build minus a few props here and there. So yeah, the normal LOD should be more or less similar to the final one.

 

VC is an exception because the game was made in 9 months or so, ofcourse they would rush stuff there, which is why Mainland reuses a ton of content from Manhunt, aside from having literal cubes as buildings. As for SA, the map is so big there are bound to be leftovers.

[tiendadany17]

On 4/24/2022 at 11:11 AM, Jinx. said:

I'm still saying they are done late, and I have good reasons to say so. The LOD in III, in particular the Super LOD, is about as old as the manual render, maybe slightly newer but not by a lot. It's very noticeable in Staunton where you see the same buildings near the College district (which in turn were reused from an even earlier version of the map). There are screenshots showing this specific map, mainly the ones showing that one changed building near the subway entrance in Portland. This version of the map must be from a version a bit before E3 2001. There is a magazine where this specific map shows the Luigi's Club alleyway.

 

While the Super LOD has a few differences, the normal one is fairly similar to the final game, which is pretty much identical to what was shown in the playable E3 build minus a few props here and there. So yeah, the normal LOD should be more or less similar to the final one.

 

VC is an exception because the game was made in 9 months or so, ofcourse they would rush stuff there, which is why Mainland reuses a ton of content from Manhunt, aside from having literal cubes as buildings. As for SA, the map is so big there are bound to be leftovers.

I am noticing quite a few differences in the PS2 LOD, for example in the Asuka building where we save the game in Stauton Island, the wall looks all white instead of that reddish color with bricks, the businesses on the side also look different, the Belleve Park them roads seem different, in salvatore's mansion you can also see the smallest road as if you were walking on air, in general many businesses are seen in a totally different color and with a very different image than the final one, what I don't know is if it would be considered LOD or SUPER LOD what I don't know is if it could be considered BETA or if they simply used random textures in some places that don't even resemble the final texture since we have to take into account that we were never supposed to see them up close, I thought take several photos of various places that look different but I don't want to post something that may not be correct I am using the American version of ps2 if the lens is worn only the LOD textures will be loaded and you will be able to get closer without any problem and see them up close

[tiendadany17]

Has anyone noticed that that sign in the gta sa intro video seemed to be different

https://imgur.com/a/BqzTrTj

 

even in san andreas you also see the same LOD

https://imgur.com/a/GtV1XBW

 

 

Edited May 9 by tiendadany17
forgot to put the links

[universetwisters]

Was it ever said anywhere that RISE FM’s beta name was OR-BIT or is that just another rumor?

[Rolf Wiedeke]

9 hours ago, universetwisters said:

Was it ever said anywhere that RISE FM’s beta name was OR-BIT or is that just another rumor?

If I recall, there are a few in-game billboards showing diverse radio stations that weren't made to be used for the soundtrack, but rather extending the lore of the game.

People got creative, and thought these are "alpha/beta" radio stations.  Even some of the mods back from 2013/2014 have this, especially MeltedSOX's alpha mods have the MP3 player on PC replaced with RadioActive. (another radio station ad) . After this, most of the wikis ran by fans have started to recycle this idea (merely a rumor, anyway).

[tiendadany17]

7 hours ago, Rolf Wiedeke said:

If I recall, there are a few in-game billboards showing diverse radio stations that weren't made to be used for the soundtrack, but rather extending the lore of the game.

People got creative, and thought these are "alpha/beta" radio stations.  Even some of the mods back from 2013/2014 have this, especially MeltedSOX's alpha mods have the MP3 player on PC replaced with RadioActive. (another radio station ad) . After this, most of the wikis ran by fans have started to recycle this idea (merely a rumor, anyway).

i dont agree

[Rolf Wiedeke]

14 hours ago, tiendadany17 said:

i dont agree

Well, anyone can have his own opinion about those radios. We can't really tell for sure. Maybe there were once ideas for the game, but never implemented at all in-game. 

If I recall, from the radios we have in-game ,some of them were done late in the development cycle. (IIRC there was an interview where someone from R* (might be Lazlow himself) said that Lazlow came in to do the Chatterbox in the summer of 01'.)

[universetwisters]

4 hours ago, Rolf Wiedeke said:

 

If I recall, from the radios we have in-game ,some of them were done late in the development cycle. (IIRC there was an interview where someone from R* (might be Lazlow himself) said that Lazlow came in to do the Chatterbox in the summer of 01'.)

I know this was before lazlow was doing all the radio stations like in VC but goddamn that’s a stupidly fast production time. And consider that VC was made in only nine months, either Lazlow and his team of writers etc were either very very very effective or very very very rushed

[tiendadany17]

6 hours ago, Rolf Wiedeke said:

Well, anyone can have his own opinion about those radios. We can't really tell for sure. Maybe there were once ideas for the game, but never implemented at all in-game. 

If I recall, from the radios we have in-game ,some of them were done late in the development cycle. (IIRC there was an interview where someone from R* (might be Lazlow himself) said that Lazlow came in to do the Chatterbox in the summer of 01'.)

or maybe they could be implemented but they decided not to put them in the game as happened with the planes and motorcycles that were created in gta 3 but they were not included, they decided to save them until the vice city to be able to SELL the game under the premise that they were INNOVATING

[Rolf Wiedeke]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:35 PM, tiendadany17 said:

or maybe they could be implemented but they decided not to put them in the game as happened with the planes and motorcycles that were created in gta 3 but they were not included, they decided to save them until the vice city to be able to SELL the game under the premise that they were INNOVATING

Yet none of these radios you speak of were later re-implemented in LCS. (WLLC The Zone, OR-BIT, Libertysoul FM and RadioActive)

My point still stands. They were either made for expanding the game lore, or at some point they were just ideas for radios to be implemented into the game, but ended up being used as advertisements. No one knows. Not even the design doc (or at least what GTASeriesVideos showcased on their channel) mentions anything about those radios.

[tiendadany17]

1 hour ago, Rolf Wiedeke said:

Yet none of these radios you speak of were later re-implemented in LCS. (WLLC The Zone, OR-BIT, Libertysoul FM and RadioActive)

My point still stands. They were either made for expanding the game lore, or at some point they were just ideas for radios to be implemented into the game, but ended up being used as advertisements. No one knows. Not even the design doc (or at least what GTASeriesVideos showcased on their channel) mentions anything about those radios.

gtaseriesvideos almost did not show the desigdocument...

they only REPORTED, the truth i do not believe anything...

i dont create anything until i see the scanned document...

[Beato_dim]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:35 PM, tiendadany17 said:

or maybe they could be implemented but they decided not to put them in the game as happened with the planes and motorcycles that were created in gta 3 but they were not included, they decided to save them until the vice city to be able to SELL the game under the premise that they were INNOVATING

You're implying that they crippled their game in order to sell the _next_one_ better? I mean, that would work out these days, since R* are pretty much an AAA developer, but back in their underdog days, when there was no guarantee there would even be an expansion pack?

[Rolf Wiedeke]

14 hours ago, tiendadany17 said:

gtaseriesvideos almost did not show the desigdocument...

they only REPORTED, the truth i do not believe anything...

i dont create anything until i see the scanned document...

To be honest, I would have liked a PDF scan too. But you know...Greed is a thing nowadays, especially in the GTA community. 

[tiendadany17]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:31 AM, Beato_dim said:

You're implying that they crippled their game in order to sell the _next_one_ better? I mean, that would work out these days, since R* are pretty much an AAA developer, but back in their underdog days, when there was no guarantee there would even be an expansion pack?

that's my theory...

Possible tests would be

1. in a cutscene I think it's in the grand theft aereo mission we can see that claude crouches during the cutscene which suggests that this mechanic already existed but they didn't want to include it in the game and better save it for vice city

2. there is a hierarchy of motorcycles in the game which implies that the motorcycles were made in gta3 but they decided to save them until vice city

3. planes in gta3 are fully functional but we can't fly them, again i think they did it for the purpose of saving it for vice city

4. in gta 3 we see a sign that says see you in miami, which implies that they were already working in vice city

More things could still be added but I don't remember right now XD

[tiendadany17]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:51 PM, Rolf Wiedeke said:

To be honest, I would have liked a PDF scan too. But you know...Greed is a thing nowadays, especially in the GTA community. 

I'm 99% sure that more secrets are hidden in that desigdocument, even at the beginning of the video you could see that there were unused objects and textures and gtaseriesvideo never wanted to show them, I would even dare to say that they didn't show even half of the document, they only they began to tell the beta story without even showing the pages, or the objects on the map

[Rolf Wiedeke]

1 hour ago, tiendadany17 said:

I'm 99% sure that more secrets are hidden in that desigdocument, even at the beginning of the video you could see that there were unused objects and textures and gtaseriesvideo never wanted to show them, I would even dare to say that they didn't show even half of the document, they only they began to tell the beta story without even showing the pages, or the objects on the map

I agree. There are a few renders and other interesting stuff regarding that area of the game that never got shown. But oh well...

[Beato_dim]

On 5/21/2022 at 1:02 AM, tiendadany17 said:

that's my theory...

Possible tests would be

1. in a cutscene I think it's in the grand theft aereo mission we can see that claude crouches during the cutscene which suggests that this mechanic already existed but they didn't want to include it in the game and better save it for vice city

2. there is a hierarchy of motorcycles in the game which implies that the motorcycles were made in gta3 but they decided to save them until vice city

3. planes in gta3 are fully functional but we can't fly them, again i think they did it for the purpose of saving it for vice city

4. in gta 3 we see a sign that says see you in miami, which implies that they were already working in vice city

More things could still be added but I don't remember right now XD

more likely that:

1. back then it didn't occur them to make it into a gameplay feature? I mean, it's not that useful in Vice City either, considering you can't move while crouching (so the only use for it is to hide behind cars and such).

2. it only implies bikes were _planned_ for gta3, at some point in development. They simply weren't finished.

3. Now, I didn't spend much time with the dodo, but I remember reading that the game isn't really meant to be explored while flying, i.e. a lot of collision above ground is missing etc. Besides, there isn't really a lot to fly _to_ for planes to be a legitimate feature - no second runway or anything. So, again, I see why it was scrapped - while the flying mechanics themselves are done, the world isn't.

4. Yeah, that one is true.

 

So I'd say they just decided not to include a bunch of half-baked/unfinished mechanics in the game, not to make the next game INNOVATIVE, but because there simply wasn't enough time to properly finish them/that time was best spent on other aspects of the game.

[tiendadany17]

On 5/23/2022 at 1:22 AM, Beato_dim said:

more likely that:

1. back then it didn't occur them to make it into a gameplay feature? I mean, it's not that useful in Vice City either, considering you can't move while crouching (so the only use for it is to hide behind cars and such).

2. it only implies bikes were _planned_ for gta3, at some point in development. They simply weren't finished.

3. Now, I didn't spend much time with the dodo, but I remember reading that the game isn't really meant to be explored while flying, i.e. a lot of collision above ground is missing etc. Besides, there isn't really a lot to fly _to_ for planes to be a legitimate feature - no second runway or anything. So, again, I see why it was scrapped - while the flying mechanics themselves are done, the world isn't.

4. Yeah, that one is true.

 

So I'd say they just decided not to include a bunch of half-baked/unfinished mechanics in the game, not to make the next game INNOVATIVE, but because there simply wasn't enough time to properly finish them/that time was best spent on other aspects of the game.

1. in the vice city you cannot move in the san andreas if you can, what a coincidence right?

2 and 3 motorcycles and planes exist since the body harvest game that came out much earlier if you can do that on a nintendo 64 years before why can't you do it on a ps2 XD

 

people try to defend companies when all they want is to make money...

 

As an example I put the ocarina of time that as many of us know its alpha / beta version was going to have many more features that were cut to be included in later installments

[Beato_dim]

10 hours ago, tiendadany17 said:

As an example I put the ocarina of time that as many of us know its alpha / beta version was going to have many more features that were cut to be included in later installments

 

Just of curiosity, were those features properly working in those alpha/beta versions?

Funny thing, in these beta discussions people always claim "they cut this", "they cut that", when most of the time, the feature wasn't really cut as it was not really implemented. It may have been _planned_, it was probably _in_progress_, but it doesn't make sense that a developer would intentionally make their game _worse_ by cutting perfectly functioning mechanics (at least, before DLCs arrived on the scene, but that's beside the topic).

And yeah, companies want to make money, kinda strange that you condemn them for it. 

[tiendadany17]

1 hour ago, Beato_dim said:

 

Just of curiosity, were those features properly working in those alpha/beta versions?

Funny thing, in these beta discussions people always claim "they cut this", "they cut that", when most of the time, the feature wasn't really cut as it was not really implemented. It may have been _planned_, it was probably _in_progress_, but it doesn't make sense that a developer would intentionally make their game _worse_ by cutting perfectly functioning mechanics (at least, before DLCs arrived on the scene, but that's beside the topic).

And yeah, companies want to make money, kinda strange that you condemn them for it. 

 

 

hello friend how are you English is not my native language so I apologize if my words could have a rude connotation it is not my intention to generate controversy just to give my opinion

 

We don't know about what you're saying since there are no playable versions of gta3 beta or ocarina of time beta for example, we only have a few images where many differences are noticeable.

 

I am not saying that they worsen their game on purpose, but rather that they divide it into several parts in order to sell it separately, otherwise they would be losing money in a single game that could be divided and sold in 2 or 3 games and earn more As an example I put gta san andreas which was very innovative for its time but when gta4 came out it had better graphics but they couldn't do all the things that in gta san andreas like customizing the character, so many people preferred to continue playing gta san andreas instead of BUYING gta4 so INNOVATION ends up being a strong point in the sales of a video game

 

I do not condemn the companies for that, what I am trying to say is that they think from the point of view of a BUSINESS, not in the fun or in the emotion that it can give to the player, therefore if they have to cut something they do without caring how great it would be, and above all they take into account the budget for example gta3 being the first game in 3d it is understandable that they had very little faith in it, therefore instead of trying to improve those FEATURES that they planned to IMPLEMENT they just discard them and leave them for a sequel if the game is successful, thus saving money and development time and selling 2 games instead of just one

 

therefore it would not be about limitations of the time, nor of the hardware, nor of the console

 

do you understand me ?

 

I apologize friend if my comment is a bit long XD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27 by tiendadany17

[Lips10Sixx]

Still very curious with these tri toned banshees. Colored bumpers. I know this is known but has anyone come up with anything on it to replicate or a way to get this back in the game?

 

Edited May 28 by Lips10Sixx
typo