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Grand Theft Auto III Pre-Release Discussion


GTAKid667

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Martin4004
52 minutes ago, Staunton Assassin said:

Well, here are some more BETA finds:

 

- There's a developer comment in "frank1.sc" that says "FRANKIES LIMO NEEDS A UNIQUE COLOUR". This means the developers at R* originally intended to give Salvatore's Stretch a unique color in "Chaperone".
- According to the commented out blip coordinates seen in "frank1.sc", Luigi's mission marker was originally supposed to be located at the bottom of the steps leading up to his club's backdoor.
- "frank2.1.sc" (code for "Bomb Da Base: Act I") contains commented out code for displaying these two unused subtitles:

 

FM3_A - "We should take these Colombian bastards out"

FM3_B - "but while we're at war with the Triads we just ain't strong enough"

 

It seems that these two dialogues weren't added as an afterthought in the post-PS2 releases, but they were always intended to be there.

 

- According to commented out code in "frank4.sc", Maria and Asuka were originally supposed to be visible at the pier next to Callahan Bridge from the beginning of "Last Requests" (immersion friendliness?).

 

- Moreover, "Last Requests" was originally supposed to outright fail if you entered the rigged Cheetah.
- The "Claude meets Maria and Asuka at the pier" cutscene in "Last Requests" was originally supposed to be positioned slightly different than in the final version of the game.

 

- There's a commented out "PRINT_NOW" command in "8ball.sc" that was supposed to display an unused subtitle in the opening cutscene of "Luigi's Girls":

 

EBAL_I - "The boss will be out to see you shortly..."

 

Looks like Mickey Hamfists was supposed to say this line in that cutscene.

 

- Both in "main.sc" and "asusb3.sc" (code for "S.A.M."), Catalina's mission marker is created with a global variable named "maria_contact_blip".
  Maybe this marker was originally supposed to be represented by a "M" on the radar instead of a "C"? This mission would've seemed more logical if it was given by Maria, though. Anyways...

 

- "Under Surveillance" was originally supposed to create a marker of some sort by the front entrance of Kenji's Casino.

- Also, the FBI agents/Leone goons standing on the balconies of the building near Kenji's Casino in "Under Surveillance" were originally supposed to come equipped with 99% of Body Armor each.

 

- To add to Donald Love's unused garage discovery mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this topic: If you manage to get into the unused garage, you'll notice it's fully solid.
  And here's another fun fact, the garage was heavily shortened and actually reused in LCS for the missions "The Morgue Party Candidate" and "Love on the Rocks".

 

- There's an unused source file named "demo2.sc" which contains code for a test mission that plays a series of gameplay-based scripted cutscenes where several locations around Portland are showcased.

 

- This one was already documented by Vadim M. in his "GTA III Removed Content [Part I]" video, but whatever. "Gone Fishing" has these developer comments in it's code related to it's early concept:

 

// *****************************************************************************************
// *********************************** Ray Mission 4 ***************************************
// *********************************** Gone Fishing     ***************************************
// *****************************************************************************************
// *** Ray's partner is going to turn State's Evidence. He goes night fishing on the     ***
// *** Lighthouse Rock. The player will have to use a boat to get to him.  This boat will***
// *** have guns, and that is how the player must kill Ray's partner. Ray's partner will ***
// *** also have a weapon of his own, as he flees he will be dropping barrels of          ***
// *** explosives into the water and the path of the player.                             ***
// *****************************************************************************************

 

- The Drive-By Rampage located behind a guard box in southern Pike Creek was originally supposed to display drive-by help text.
- "Waka-Gashira Wipeout!" was originally supposed to feature twelve Yakuza gang members instead of eight and some of the existing gang members were originally supposed to guard the area around Kenji.

 

- "Bling-Bling Scramble" was originally called "Drug Rush".
- The Yardie gang member in "Uzi Rider" was originally supposed to explicitly tell Claude to kill five Diablo gang members.
- Both Yardie gang members in "Uzi Rider" were originally supposed to chase Claude down if he abandoned them? Not sure about this one...
- The "Police bribe delivered to hideout" pager message was originally "'Get out of jail free!'" and was supposed to be displayed after every five-in-a-row kills during the "Vigilante" side-mission.

 

- Moreover, here's a hidden fact about "Vigilante"; The game sets the "SET_GET_OUT_OF_JAIL_FREE" (0x0413) opcode to TRUE after every five-in-a-row kills. For more info about this opcode, click it's name.

Can you also recode what Ma Cipriani says in "Salvatore's Called a Meeting" ?

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Staunton Assassin
Just now, Martin4004 said:

Can you also recode what Ma Cipriani says in "Salvatore's Called a Meeting" ?

I believe you're talking about Ma Cipriani's un-subtitled dialogues. Well, the leaked mission script source code doesn't contain subtitles for Ma's dialogues, sadly.

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Martin4004
1 minute ago, Staunton Assassin said:

I believe you're talking about Ma Cipriani's un-subtitled dialogues. Well, the leaked mission script source code doesn't contain subtitles for Ma's dialogues, sadly.

Damn, it would be great to know what she's talking about. But thanks for reply anyway

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Lips10Sixx

@Jinx. Any idea as to the body as for the Banshee's magazine shot of the dark grey bumper?

Also seen as white with the blue stripe and dark bumper in this commercial @ 0:40 

I believe the white and blue color scheme appears in LCS. 

Also at the end is a full white/grey yakuza? or plain stinger with rear spoiler?

You probably know all of this but I'll mention it anyways.

 

Edited by Lips10Sixx
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Jinx.

I think the cutscene Banshee also has a dark bumper. It's probably mapping related.

 

The Yakuza Stinger looks good with the final mapping but when the bodymaps are removed the "red" color is not as red. I think it's the same effect in the trailer.

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Lips10Sixx

Has it been mentioned that the Police intercom in some cars when wanted will be described as a different/beta car color rather what the car is. EX: suspect last seen in a dark purple convertible (stallion) while the car is blue with saddle brown style top. 

Late to the party? but just realized that. 

Edited by Lips10Sixx
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Lips10Sixx
On 6/1/2020 at 8:33 PM, Gamerjman19 said:

what

Thank you for this! 

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Staunton Assassin

So I looked into "cuts.img" again and noticed a strange oddity...

 

The opening cutscene for "S.A.M." is internally named "A8_PS", which is correct and actually makes sense because it's the overall eighth mission given by Asuka.
But for some strange reason, the closing cutscene that plays at the end of the mission is quite mysteriously named "A9_ASD" even though both cutscenes are part of the same mission.

 

While coincidentally reading the mission's leaked source file "asusb3.sc" at the same time, I found this gold-tier bit of unused code in the "mission passed" section:

 

//START_NEW_SCRIPT asuka_suburban_mission4_loop

 

Sadly, though, no such mission trigger loop thread exists in "main.sc", nor there's any code left for Asuka's ninth mission.
Strolling through the code further, I noticed the "Ransom" text displayed in the beginning of the "A9_ASD" cutscene is also internally named "AS4", backing up the discovery above.

 

Well, looks like the "Ransom" cutscene was indeed a separate mission from "S.A.M." once, but it wasn't going to be just a simple cutscene like "Love's Disappearance", though...
The next thing that came to my attention was the cutscene's subtitles. They all weirdly use the prefix "CAT1_" in their internal names (different from "The Exchange" ones which use "CAT2_").

 

When I checked the text files to find out more about the subtitles, I found a duplicate entry of the "Ransom" text under the name "CAT1" and an objective text named "CAT1_F", both unused.
The objective text says "Get to Catalina before the time runs out!". But where to? And what's the hurry? There's no mention of any time limit in the cutscene, nor does the text say where to go.

 

One could speculate the destination must've been Catalina's mansion in Cedar Grove, but wouldn't that directly lead to "The Exchange"?
There was certainly something in this mission that R* deliberately cut out. Maybe the Yakuza were going to find out about Claude's involvement in Kenji's death and turn hostile against him? Who knows?

 

Conclusion: "Ransom" was once a full-fledged mission of it's own, maybe with a name like "Asuka's Demise" or "A Special Delivery" when taking the letters "ASD" in the cutscene's name into consideration.
It was created for Asuka's second mission strand but got placed under Catalina's mission strand. And then, presumably due to 9/11, R* tore the entire mission down to a simple motion-capture cutscene.

 

After that, the "mission" got moved under Asuka's second mission strand at some point before eventually being merged into "S.A.M." in a rush.

Interestingly enough, it makes much more sense for Catalina to kill Asuka and Miguel and kidnap Maria after "S.A.M.", not while the said mission is going on.

Edited by Staunton Assassin
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Jinx.

Ransom is listed as its own mission in the GameOn expo, with the same "A9" naming scheme. Yeah it probably was its own mission at one point.

 

Are you sure the text isn't used for The Exchange?

 

WKRTlhc.jpg

Edited by Jinx.
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Staunton Assassin
10 hours ago, Jinx. said:

Ransom is listed as its own mission in the GameOn expo, with the same "A9" naming scheme. Yeah it probably was its own mission at one point.

 

Are you sure the text isn't used for The Exchange?

 

(image)

Yeah, "The Exchange" has it's own set of text strings with the prefix "CAT2_". Here's an example from the final code:

 

Quote

:CAT1_1051
00D6: if
001A:   32166 > $CUT_SCENE_TIME // integer values
004D: jump_if_false @CAT1_1086
0001: wait 0 ms
02E8: $CUT_SCENE_TIME = cutscenetime
0002: jump @CAT1_1051

 

:CAT1_1086
00BC: text_highpriority 'CAT2_A' 10000 ms 2  // The real question is, did you turn up to rescue Maria or to get me back?

 

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Jinx.

That's quite interesting... Do the other language GXTs have any leftovers by any chance?

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Staunton Assassin
20 hours ago, Jinx. said:

That's quite interesting... Do the other language GXTs have any leftovers by any chance?

Unfortunately, no, the French, German, Italian and Spanish language GXT files seem to have been based upon the final revision of "american.gxt", and thus, they're more or less quite the same.

 

What is really interesting though is there's an unused GXT file named "english.gxt" in the game's "text" folder.
It's almost like "american.gxt", but it's missing some of the text strings that are there in the latter and stands 14,098 bytes behind it in size.

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thehambone
3 hours ago, Staunton Assassin said:

What is really interesting though is there's an unused GXT file named "english.gxt" in the game's "text" folder.
It's almost like "american.gxt", but it's missing some of the text strings that are there in the latter and stands 14,098 bytes behind it in size.

"american.gxt" was originally included on PS2 discs from the US, while "english.gxt" (and spanish, german, french, etc.) were included on the EU PS2 discs. In later non-PS2 releases, Rockstar lumped them all together. I'm not sure whether the game chooses between "american.gxt" or "english.gxt" on the non-PS2 releases.

Not sure why there was a distinction between "american" and "english" in the first place. I guess we Americans just like to stand out 🦅 😎

Edited by thehambone
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Brooklynzsmac

Who needs dev doc, which we'll never see, if we got Eddo and source scripts from mobile. Good job @Staunton Assassin 👍 This stuff is really interesting. I hope you'll cover all eventually. 

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vcfan1991
On 1/31/2021 at 9:25 PM, Jinx. said:

Ransom is listed as its own mission in the GameOn expo, with the same "A9" naming scheme. Yeah it probably was its own mission at one point.

 

Are you sure the text isn't used for The Exchange?

 

WKRTlhc.jpg

 

I saw this display irl at a video game event and woo wee was that a great moment. Gazing at this piece of GTA history in awe... Probably the greatest moment of my life up until then. 

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gts.
On 2/1/2021 at 2:00 PM, Brooklynzsmac said:

Who needs dev doc, which we'll never see, if we got Eddo and source scripts from mobile. Good job @Staunton Assassin 👍 This stuff is really interesting. I hope you'll cover all eventually. 

Indeed, this guy doing better job than those guys, probably a whole team behind lol. I've some kind of assumption, they are saving the document to show it on the GTA3 20th anniversary? Who knows, but I don't think so.

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Jinx.

Keep in mind that the leftover code won't replace what the doc has at all, guys. While there are snippets that have details from what we saw on the Ebay screens, they are still the final missions, just with commented out code or lines. The doc has stuff that we don't know about, such as Toshiro, Darkel or Curtly.

 

To bring something new to the table, "The Pick-Up" calls the Triads as Thongs internally, just like in the Ebay screens. This mission must be as early as Luigi's Girls, conceptually.

 

unknown.png

YCJphUq.jpg

 

Also, the description for Grand Theft Aero in the code is almost 1:1 with the one in the doc.

 

IU7V68K.png

Il6Us0w.jpg

Edited by Jinx.
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Staunton Assassin

Well, I've found some more stuff:

 

- D-Ice's "Rigged to Blow" mission contains code for temporarily disabling the Yakuza's hostility towards Claude for the duration of the mission. Apparently, it's still in the final game and actually works!
  Hmm, looks like the Yakuza were indeed going to find out Claude killed Kenji at some point in the BETA story.

 

- Here's an oddity about "Paparazzi Purge": The opening cutscene is internally named "A2_PP" even though the game's text and code define the mission as Asuka's third mission.
  Judging by this, it was originally supposed to be Asuka's second mission, occuring between "Sayonara Salvatore" and "Under Surveillance" and not after the latter.

 

- Misty's in-game dialogue when you pick her up in "Drive Misty For Me" is quite strangely named "L2_A" in the game's audio files.
  Maybe Misty was originally supposed to be found buying stuff from the dealer in "Don't SPANK Ma Bitch Up" and Claude would've had to drive her back to Luigi's club or something?

 

- I've rounded up a list of suspicious-looking cutscene names that can possibly contain abbreviations for certain missions' BETA names:

 

L2_DSB - Don't SPANK Bitches
L3_DM+J0_DM2 - Driving Misty
J1_LFL - Lips Forelli's Lunch
J2_KCL - Kill 'Chunky' Lee

 

J4_ETH - Escorting Toni Home

J6_TBJ - The Bank Job
T3_MAS+S0_MAS - Meeting at Salvatore's
S1_PF - Pulp Friction

 

S3_RTC - Raiding the Cartel

A1_SSO - Salvatore's Sendoff
A3_SS - Sniper Surveillance
A5_K2FT - Kill Two-Faced Tanner

 

R1_SW - Silent Witness

R2_AP - Assisting Phil, Arming Phil or maybe Arms Problem?
K2_GIS - Gone in Sixty
D1_STOG - Save The Oriental Gentleman or maybe Save The Old Guy?

 

D6_STS - Swat the SWAT

D7_MLD - Mr. Love's Disappearance

 

- The source code file for "Paparazzi Purge" contains a weird BETA name for the mission: "Boat Spy thing", so R* intended the target to be a spy and not a reporter?

 

- The game's text files contains these unused text strings, they have the prefix "JM1_" so maybe these were meant to be displayed in "Mike 'Lips' Last Lunch"?:

 

JM1_8A - Hey, it's my main man!
JM1_8B - The bomb shop's automated. Just drive in, stop your car and the shop will do the rest.
JM1_8C - Here, your first can be free, but after that it'll cost.

 

The text strings look like they're subtitles for 8-Ball's dialogues, maybe he was originally supposed to fully appear in the mission and say these lines?

 

- The source code for "The Exchange" contains a commented-out entry for an M16-wielding Colombian dude that was originally supposed to appear in the mission's opening cutscene.
  Oddly, though, his animation is named "col2" and so is the Colombian dude's model. However, no such animation exists in "c1_tex.ifp". But there's a pretty suspiciously unused "col1" animation, though...
  Fun fact: The Colombian dude Claude punches in the opening cutscene of "The Exchange" is the exact same one whom Catalina shoots in the intro cutscene. I guess he likes to get slapped around the place, LOL.

 

- Also found in the source code for "The Exchange" is a commented-out "PRINT_NOW" command which was supposed to print this unused subtitle just before Catalina starts talking:

 

CAT2_A1 - Come on you dumb bitch!

 

Maybe this line belonged to the Colombian dude holding Maria?

 

- "yard3.sc" (code for "Gangcar Round-Up") contains early revisions of the mission briefing text strings:

 

YD3_A - We want you to boost some gang cars so we can do hits on our enemies' turf and set them at each other's throats.
YD3_B - We want a Mafia beamer, a Triad van and a Diablo stallion so we can hit any gang in Portland.
YD3_C - Drop them off at <location> and remember, they're no use to us wrecked!!

 

YD3_G - You've already boosted a Triad fish van!
YD3_J - Triad gangcar boosted! (This text and the one above it say "Yakuza gangcar" in the final version)

 

Looks like Claude was originally meant to steal cars from Portland gangs. Wait a second, could the Yardies be the reason why the Leones, Triads and Diablos are against each other?

 

- The laundry vans in "Taking Out the Laundry" were originally supposed to spawn with 60% of health (40% less than final), presumably to make blowing them up with Grenades a lot more fun?
- "hj.sc" has a commented-out "ADD_ONE_OFF_SOUND" command that was meant to play a sound effect every time the player successfully performed an Insane Stunt, just like when completing a Unique Stunt Jump.

 

- "Decoy" was originally quite different in the BETA, here are the developer comments from "love6.sc":

 

// *****************************************************************************************
// *******************************    Donald Love 6    *************************************
// *******************************    Swat the SWAT    *************************************
// *****************************************************************************************
// *** Ray has tipped off Love that the Liberty PD are going to mount a raid on his pad. ***
// *** Three SWAT vans are going to approach the contact point from different directions ***
// *** to trap any one escaping.  The player must take out the SWAT teams.                 ***
// *****************************************************************************************

 

- Also, Love's "Keep them busy and he should make good his escape!" dialogue in the opening cutscene for "Decoy" was originally "Keep them busy for 5 minutes and he should make good his escape!"
- The van in "Escort Service" was originally supposed to spawn with twice more health than any other vehicle.

 

- "love5.sc" (code for "Escort Service") contains commented-out code that would tell the player to get back to the van and defend it if he/she is 220 meters away from it.
  Moreover, the van would lose 3% of it's health (per second?) while Claude is not watching over it and would eventually explode, failing the mission.

 

- "love4.sc" (code for "Grand Theft Aero") contains commented-out debug code related to teleporting the player to the Port Authority hangar by pressing the Triangle, Square and Circle buttons.

 

- 8-Ball was originally supposed to respawn in his default outfit at slightly different coordinates than in the final version if you failed "Give Me Liberty" after reaching the hideout.
- The object model for the dead Port Authority officers was originally supposed to be placed slightly differently.
- The small cutscene showing 'Chunky' Lee Chong at his noodle stand in "Farewell 'Chunky' Lee Chong" was originally supposed to have slightly different camera position coordinates.
- Moreover, the cutscene was also supposed to check if Chunky's not dead yet and then point the camera at him if he's still alive.

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Jinx.

Rigged To Blow was probably meant to make all gangs not agressive just in case. I don't think the devs cared about the gangs for that mission. Besides I'm not really sure if they were going to be agressive, because if you edit the contrast on the Toshiro image, you can see text for Espresso-2-Go, which makes me think the game's final act was similar in the beta.

 

Paparazzi Purge is also listed as the second mission in the GameOn exposition.

GHhAqQh.jpg

 

I wouldn't take all the mission names in consideration. Some of them, like the boat spy one, are just generic names.

 

Don't forget about the "overused puta" line still left in the PS2 PAL release in The Exchange.

 

Nice finds by the way :)

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universetwisters

Nice finds like usual @Staunton Assassin! Hopefully someone reputable like VadimM makes a video about your beta findings and beats GTASeriesvideos to it whenever they're done gatekeeping the GDD

Edited by universetwisters
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GhettoJesus

Can someone tell me what is the deal with the "The Story" page that @Jinx. posted? Is there a reason why they are using the same image over and over for those bits?

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Really fascinating to see this stuff still surfacing, even without that actual document being shared anywhere. Though it does make it even more disappointing we've still seen nothing of it.

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Jinx.

Here is something I noticed while looking on TCRF's busy contact leftovers, then at the gxt.

 

unknown.png

 

Both Kenji and Asuka have 2 more gxt lines compared to the others. While it's a well known thing, it's the naming scheme that was totally ignored.

 

So Asuka's missions post Grand Theft Aero are internally named ASUSB, from Asuka Suburban. The other 2 lines are called KEMUGO and KENJGO. Based on these two facts, we can assume that Kenji lived atleast up until Ransom, and his mission set was called KENSB. They were most likely playing with this concept until Love was introduced, as Asuka's old name, Kemuri, is still referenced in KEMUGO. So the Yakuza takeover of the construction site most likely happened because of Toshiro's murder, and you had to do misisons for both of them, then do Ransom, which was its own mission that involved getting to Catalina under a time limit as one of the objectives.

 

Fun fact, there is also a busy contact gxt line for the Hoods, which is weird as none of the other phone contacts have this type of lines. Maybe they were planned early on too? Who knows...

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Staunton Assassin
1 hour ago, Jinx. said:

Here is something I noticed while looking on TCRF's busy contact leftovers, then at the gxt.

 

unknown.png

 

Both Kenji and Asuka have 2 more gxt lines compared to the others. While it's a well known thing, it's the naming scheme that was totally ignored.

 

So Asuka's missions post Grand Theft Aero are internally named ASUSB, from Asuka Suburban. The other 2 lines are called KEMUGO and KENJGO. Based on these two facts, we can assume that Kenji lived atleast up until Ransom, and his mission set was called KENSB. They were most likely playing with this concept until Love was introduced, as Asuka's old name, Kemuri, is still referenced in KEMUGO. So the Yakuza takeover of the construction site most likely happened because of Toshiro's murder, and you had to do misisons for both of them, then do Ransom, which was its own mission that involved getting to Catalina under a time limit as one of the objectives.

 

Fun fact, there is also a busy contact gxt line for the Hoods, which is weird as none of the other phone contacts have this type of lines. Maybe they were planned early on too? Who knows...

Good catch, I recall seeing "flag_player_on_kenji_suburban_mission" and "flag_player_on_ray_suburban_mission" somewhere once. But I can't really remember where did I see those...

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xSapphirePlayz
3 hours ago, Staunton Assassin said:

Good catch, I recall seeing "flag_player_on_kenji_suburban_mission" and "flag_player_on_ray_suburban_mission" somewhere once. But I can't really remember where did I see those...

@Staunton Assassin Is there any chance of you restoring the most stuff possible from the source files after finishing the research? Would be a great addition to Jinx's Beta Collection project.

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Staunton Assassin
42 minutes ago, xSapphirePlayz said:

@Staunton Assassin Is there any chance of you restoring the most stuff possible from the source files after finishing the research? Would be a great addition to Jinx's Beta Collection project.

That's exactly what I plan to do.;) Although I've been busy with some of my own projects lately, though, so expect it to come out a bit later on this year...

Edited by Staunton Assassin
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Jinx.

@Staunton AssassinYou were talking about Ransom dialogue a while ago. Apparently gxt sources from the mobile port has more details in the other languages. The rest of the cut lines were dialogues...

 

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Apparently the dialogue for The Exchange also has subtitles for the "overused puta" line from the PAL version, but they were made to be ignored. I wonder if that mission also has the "Come on you dumb bitch" part in the audio...

Edited by Jinx.
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