Grand Theft Auto III Pre-Release Discussion

[universetwisters]

It was? Looks pretty different in it's final form.

[Sergiu]

It was? Looks pretty different in it's final form.

I actually have the original alpha mall window texture. I can give it to you if it would help.

[Jinx.]

@HazzardX I was sure that this building was!

[Sergiu]

Actual texture:

 

Edi found it a long while ago, we've used it on a Chinatown building (it was used for the office windows as well).
Never actually thought it was from the 3D era.

[Gamerjman19]

Actual texture:

 

Edi found it a long while ago, we've used it on a Chinatown building (it was used for the office windows as well).

Never actually thought it was from the 3D era.

wow

[Jinx.]

It's not exactly new.

 

But you know - there is nothing to impress ppl if this game is 13 yo old

>not new

>isn't mentioned anywhere in 13 years

wow that frggin logic

 

Seriously, after your logic, EVERYTHING is old. If everything is old, then why don't you make your own topic about the ENTIRE GTA 3's 3D/Alpha/BETA/Pre-release things that were removed/changed and make this 'old content' be truthly old? And yes, EVERYTHING newely found can actually impress. If you think that this is not impressing, then you are free to leave. Now get your facts straight.

 

BTW your BETA Handling and Timecycle are fully fake. If you say that the Handling is from 1999, then why there are the original car names? And let's not forget that there were 40 cars in Alpha (Gouranga confirms), when you have 60 cars there (final ones).

Also about the timecyc, they are fake aswell. Some timecyc phases are missing/different.

 

 

 

 

 

On-topic: UT was right about the AK47. It had no stock. I removed it, and it seems that it didn't have any hole there, when removing the M16 stock, it left a hole there. If anyone wants the weapons.dff with that AK47, send me a PM. and I will send it to you.

Edited December 23, 2014 by darthvader20011

[Sergiu]

@Darth

Truth is, you have a point, lots of timecyc phases are missing (don't say that they weren't in the E3 version and only in the alpha, because that's fake).
List of the missing phases:
-Green/blue sky
-Gold/purple sky

And a few more I can't really recall.
About particles, I can't really say anything other than that they're missing a few final things (could be very real).

Truth is, the timecyc is missing core elements and the handling has something fishy to it (I'm pretty sure it's fake).
Though I am neutral, you do make for a strong point, Darth.

Missing timecyc phases:

At E3, missing from the timecyc Filip launched.



Missing as well.

No, there's no way it could be just 'different versions' either.

"BTW your BETA Handling and Timecycle are fully fake. If you say that the Handling is from 1999, then why there are the original car names? And let's not forget that there were 40 cars in Alpha (Gouranga confirms), when you have 60 cars there (final ones)."
Also, 60 cars, final names and different handling from what we've seen in most early 2000 or zoom-in '99 pics. Fishy.

Particles? Can't say, I think they're somewhat real but I'm taking that with a grain of salt as well. Hope I've been neutral/analytic enough.

Edited December 23, 2014 by CasualSergiu

[Gamerjman19]

Maybe you should post all the things you and other people have found but have not really shared?

Edited December 23, 2014 by Gamerjman19

[Sergiu]

Maybe you should post all the things you and other people have found but have not really shared?

I was coming up with the things I know myself about the subject and getting some coverage over Filip's files subject. If anything, that subject could be discussed over here but I think it's sorta... spam. Anyways, dropped my 2 cents up there. Gonna stop here since this can be taken as spam.

Edited December 23, 2014 by CasualSergiu

[Vice City criminal]

Probably Early Sniper/M16 Scope.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Vice City criminal

[Jinx.]

That crosshair can be found on PS2 version of the game. I don't know if this one and the PS2 one are similar or the same one.

[PhillBellic]

Beta Porter Tunnel. I feel it looked better then;

 

[Jago]

That crosshair can be found on PS2 version of the game. I don't know if this one and the PS2 one are similar or the same one.

different, sadly

 

 

though it's a really simple design so you could probably remake it in like 5 minutes tops

Edited December 25, 2014 by Mr. Jago

[Jinx.]

They are similar a bit, though.

Spoof did it, hours ago.

[New display name]

 

EDIT: havent read that spoof already did it, so i wasted 5 whole minutes

Edited December 25, 2014 by R4GN0R0K

[Jinx.]

Naah. Yours is LQer.

[Filip]

 

It's not exactly new.

 

But you know - there is nothing to impress ppl if this game is 13 yo old

>not new

>isn't mentioned anywhere in 13 years

wow that frggin logic

 

Seriously, after your logic, EVERYTHING is old. If everything is old, then why don't you make your own topic about the ENTIRE GTA 3's 3D/Alpha/BETA/Pre-release things that were removed/changed and make this 'old content' be truthly old? And yes, EVERYTHING newely found can actually impress. If you think that this is not impressing, then you are free to leave. Now get your facts straight.

 

BTW your BETA Handling and Timecycle are fully fake. If you say that the Handling is from 1999, then why there are the original car names? And let's not forget that there were 40 cars in Alpha (Gouranga confirms), when you have 60 cars there (final ones).

Also about the timecyc, they are fake aswell. Some timecyc phases are missing/different.

 

 

 

 

 

On-topic: UT was right about the AK47. It had no stock. I removed it, and it seems that it didn't have any hole there, when removing the M16 stock, it left a hole there. If anyone wants the weapons.dff with that AK47, send me a PM. and I will send it to you.

 

 

Man for you nobody has mentioned it because you're here since, well 2010 or sth and you are 13 yo old man (no disrespecting here in any way, just saying)? How the hell can you know about everything? If you were about following GTA 3 since its premiere, you would know that it is boring. These are just small things and thats why they were never mentioned because they are too small to even stop by them and analyze them, you see them every single time you compare pics. Just stop raging at me when I'm offline.

 

 

Come on, modders in 2002 were laughing at this old sh*t. Nothing new.

 

The texture sh*t is dang old too. I saw this texture in GTA 3 files or somewhere else as well. It actually comes from gta3.img. And it's a chrome texture.

I took several screenshots for you guys:

 

 

 

 

 

Subuild2 is mainly paynspray in SSV and weapon garages in SSV. Chrome could be used for chrome bumpers because there are car parts like car doors and hoods and it could be used as a reflection map too and even a window in exchange for the final dirty windows.

 

But actually Sergui has a point - it is worth contributing and he is doing the best work out there.

 

I would contribute more interesting things but I don't have much free time. Believe me. GTA is not my life. Ppl have work, education. Life =/= GTA for me, maybe for you, but not for me.

 

About faking it - what are the profits for me? I still have nothing after publishing these files No respect from members, nothing. I couldn't care less to be honest. And it seems everybody hates me on GTA 3 board because I'm trying to stop boring topics. Cmon.

 

Files - I don't know what u mean about the date of handling.cfg and the original car names?

 

 

Original plates on the right (used for the school bus in the final ver.).

Beta newspaper.

 

Everything is well-known and boring (yes, mine texture too).

 

 

DK why you guys trying to bash Filip. Maybe he got a different version of the BETA timecyc..or the pre-release one.

But he isn't a liar. I know him and he woulnd't post a fake thing.

 

 

Don't defend the liar! (Filip454)

 

These files are in their original form (the one that came from the source and the source looked legit).

 

I didn't have time to analyze these files in detail but they looked quite genuine in comparison to the beta version of GTA 3 that we see on the artworks/videos. And remember - there were many stages. Everyone thinks that beta version is one simple version. There were like 98734696 versions. And darth thinks there were 2 versions - alpha and beta. It's not that simple.

 

 

Truth is, the timecyc is missing core elements that were in the alpha and at E3 (no possible way of them being different versions).

 

 

I've read your in-depth look. I need to check this out in-game.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Filip454

[Sergiu]

@Filip454

Alright, fair enough. Just wanted you to look into it deeper.
It is rather obvious that there were many builds but, the one showed at E3, its timecyc, is fairly different in comparison to yours (it is missing elements that were there since the early alpha and weres still present at E3). Unlikely for it to be just a different version though if it was truly remade, it's a very faithful recreation.

Handling.cfg - In the file, it is clearly mentioned (the date) being '99 while there are about 60 cars and final names. Fishy.

About the chrome texture, never thought of it as window map. If anything, body or generic glass texture for buildings. Thanks.
It was worth mentioning in the 1st place because I haven't really seen anyone talking about it being featured in the mall render or on the Chinatown building from a Gouranga screenshot. I've also mentioned it is coming from the game's files so there was no need for the further input.

The rest of the things you've mentioned are, again, as you've mentioned, or have been, known for a long time. Bumping into the featured TXDs almost every time I do some digging (building textures, mostly).

Though there are lesser known facts. The alpha door handles texture (4 of them) has been found in Manhunt and the alpha taxi/cop car textures (higher quality) have been found in Manhunt as well.



Applied to a car.

One of the door handles from the texture has been mapped on this vehicle.


Yes, a proper remake of the cop car as well as taxi. 8 hours of work from SOBB and detail finding from me through it all.

Now I may not be the best when it comes to Grand Theft Auto III's PS2 version but I certainly do know my sh*t when it comes to the alpha phases. The alpha has always intrigued me.


@PhillBellic

Renders are not a source to be 100% followed when recreating but they do give the idea of the general characteristics. They're not gonna model proper vehicles/locations just for rendering. Vehicles have been done along the way but locations, not quite as much as the first one and even so, they still give the general idea of how the car is supposed to look or how that location is supposed to feel like and what type of general design was made for it.

They've used actual game models (vehicles) in the render and the place seems to be quite like the one that was used in-game at the time too.
The only special effects in this render are the poles and the obnoxiously powerful light source that pretty much indicates it as rendered and since we have the wireframe too, it's clear as daylight it is a render based on in-game models mostly; just made to look 'better'. I'm not too sure about the tunnel but they've used game models for the vehicles. They could've easily arranged a scene based on game models but with little touches to look more impressive. Then rendered, voila, a new fancy image for us to die for.

From the look of the cop car, the render was made in the early beta phase by simply looking at the headlights, they're bigger in height than the ones featured in the alpha version(s).


@Darth

The AK has always had a stock. There's a bug though, when Claude's in his gun holding idle stance the stock will be covered by his arm. It literally looks like it's passing through his arm.

Edited December 28, 2014 by CasualSergiu

[Filip]

True, but those handles look terrible without alpha transparency applied

 

There are also more interesting textures but in the PS2 version of GTA3.img. I've exported them long long time ago and I don't have these anymore.

 

 

Handling.cfg - In the file, it is clearly mentioned (the date) being '99 while there are about 60 cars and final names. Fishy.

 

Well it's probably because handling.cfg was being changed many times during the development of the game. And I think that even 2001 betas have final car names. You know, it could be from 2000 or 2001. That's my guess.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Filip454

[//XP//]

Well it's probably because handling.cfg was being changed many times during the development of the game. And I think that even 2001 betas have final car names. You know, it could be from 2000 or 2001. That's my guess.

Ok,so, in the E3 copy, they might have most final car names,but,what about Beamer? It was around the E3 period. Also, what about other cars that had a different name? Your handling is similar,or,even,the same one as in the retail version of the game.

Also, Beta had 50 cars. Final III has 60. Your handling has more than 50,so, in the best case out here, some of your files could be from Pre-Release, because some files, even from final III, have the 2000 date placed on them.

But, If the files are from pre-release, why is the particle configuration so unfinished and unstable?

[Jinx.]

The handling.cfg was supossed to be from '99, not from 2001.

 

And still, some people are fans of the 'old content'.

[Sergiu]

@Fillip454

The handling is marked as alpha, from '99.
That long period of time, featuring 60 cars and final car names right off the bat? You'll have to agree it's somewhat fishy.

About the timecyc, the same weather effects are triggered most of the time due to the changing colour palettes between hours, you'll get some extra nice transitions. Though generally, it'll stay as it is set if a weather change isn't implied.

Edited December 28, 2014 by CasualSergiu

[Gummy]

Here's a nice in-depth analysis of Darkel.

 

[Jinx.]

It's funny how he had a different version in Alpha, then it got changed, and unused in final, along his missions.

[Filip]

 

Well it's probably because handling.cfg was being changed many times during the development of the game. And I think that even 2001 betas have final car names. You know, it could be from 2000 or 2001. That's my guess.

Ok,so, in the E3 copy, they might have most final car names,but,what about Beamer? It was around the E3 period. Also, what about other cars that had a different name? Your handling is similar,or,even,the same one as in the retail version of the game.

Also, Beta had 50 cars. Final III has 60. Your handling has more than 50,so, in the best case out here, some of your files could be from Pre-Release, because some files, even from final III, have the 2000 date placed on them.

But, If the files are from pre-release, why is the particle configuration so unfinished and unstable?

 

 

 

Post the Beemah from E3 2001 version and I will believe you. How do you know there was a Beemer in this particular version? E3 version was in 2001 and it was nearly in pre-release status so old names from the previous chapter were cut. There was no Sentinal etc. We don't know anything about the e3 beta except one video and some screenshots.

 

Also we don't know how many cars there was in the beta because there were many versions like I've said before.

 

 

It's just the base handling made in 2000

 

 

Base handling was made in 1999 by Richard Jobling from Lucas Arts.

 

The handling is marked as alpha, from '99.

 

 

What alpha is (well I know the definition but in this example)? How do you know that the game was in the alpha stage at that time?

 

But, If the files are from pre-release, why is the particle configuration so unfinished and unstable?

 

 

Really? Are they?

Edited December 28, 2014 by Filip454

[//XP//]

 

Post the Beemah from E3 2001 version and I will believe you. How do you know there was a Beemer in this particular version? E3 version was in 2001 and it was nearly in pre-release status so old names from the previous chapter were cut. There was no Sentinal etc. We don't know nothing about the e3 beta except one video.

 

Also we don't know how many cars there was in the beta because there were many versions like I've said before.

 

My sources and informations come from Gouranga.

That website has alot of informations.

"There are 50 vehicles in the game with 4 to 5 variations on each vehicle, all based on the physics of their real-life counterparts. Each vehicle features 18 damage points that can get dented or fall off. If your car takes too much damage it can blow up. You also run the risk of flipping your car."

 

The handling is marked as alpha, from '99.

 

 

What alpha is (well I know the definition but in this example)? How do you know that the game was in the alpha stage at that time?

 

But, If the files are from pre-release, why is the particle configuration so unfinished and unstable?

 

 

Really? Are they?

 

Alpha phase is the one with the so-called "Cartoony graphics". Proto phase of III was the one before that, the one with the pics of the car called "Bug" and the other one called "Itali".

Also, yes, the particle.cfg is very unfinished. Play the game for a while, with those partices on, you'll see random crashes in some ingame moments. (For me, the most often times it crashed is when the car was supposed to explode)

You should do your research more properly, if you wanna proove your point.

Btw, here's a screenie with a possible Beamer, right around the E3 phase (A few while before,perhaps,but,still,it might be a Sentinel,as both cars are similar-looking.)

Also, E3 was in the beta phase, not late beta or pre-release.

I might say, Tell me more about the story of "How you got the files?", if only R* and IGN owns a beta cd, from the E3 phase. The best case would be if you got the pre-release from a tester.

Finally, I should add that we all shoudn't look at the dates written by people, as they can easly be changed.

Edited December 28, 2014 by HazzardX

[Filip]

If there's one thing we do know, it's the timecyc (they've showed it properly).

 

 

Aaaand here are those lines - there are like 12 of em':

 

 

 

You should do your research more properly, if you wanna proove your point.

Btw, here's a screenie with a possible Beamer, right around the E3 phase (A few while before,perhaps,but,still,it might be a Sentinel,as both cars are similar-looking.)

 

 

The thing is I don't want to prove anything and the alleged "beamer" you've posted is a simple Sentinel.

 

 

Also, yes, the particle.cfg is very unfinished. Play the game for a while, with those partices on, you'll see random crashes in some ingame moments. (For me, the most often times it crashed is when the car was supposed to explode)

 

 

Played 2 years ago (sh*t, time flies) with these files. No crashes whatsoever. Weird. Maybe the file is real if the game crashes because it lacks some animations or something, I really don't have a clue.

 

But still it has never crashed for me. But it's true - my old computer was under heavy load because there were so many particles on the screen.

 

Maybe you've downloaded wrong files because some ppl have modded the original files and used them in several mods so... (and I've allowed them to do so - stupid I )

 

 

My sources and informations come from Gouranga.

That website has alot of informations.

"There are 50 vehicles in the game with 4 to 5 variations on each vehicle, all based on the physics of their real-life counterparts. Each vehicle features 18 damage points that can get dented or fall off. If your car takes too much damage it can blow up. You also run the risk of flipping your car."

 

 

"GTA3 will feature approximately 50 vehicles, with each vehicle having 4 to 5 variations. "

 

http://gouranga.com/nf-info-gta3.htmunder the "vehicles" title

Edited December 28, 2014 by Filip454

[Sergiu]

I actually agree with Filip on the Beamer case. It wasn't at E3. Though we are straying away from the subject. There were 50 cars at max back in the E3 times and the timecyc had a few more phases that are missing from it. That's where it started and I think that's where the subject should go on instead of all the bias and off topic. Hope you guys agree with me.

This is going way too far from the main subject.

Edited December 28, 2014 by CasualSergiu

[Filip]

There were 50 cars at max back in the E3 times

 

 

But still "approximately".

Gouranga is not the best source sometimes.

 

HazzardX cut this important word from the quote. Of course we don't strictly know how many cars were in the game back then.

 

and the timecyc had a few more phases that are missing from it.

 

 

Again, we don't have any source. Only a LQ video. Otherwise I would bother to analyze it in one of my videos.

 

there were antennas.

 

 

 

True, so nothing new.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Filip454

[Sergiu]

 

There were 50 cars at max back in the E3 times

 

 

But still "approximately".

Gouranga is not the best source sometimes.

 

HazzardX cut this important word from the sentence. Of course we don't strictly know how many cars were in the game back then.

 

But we do know that approximately means that there aren't 60.

It would be a number from 49 to 55.

 

But still, that word is an important mention.

Edited December 28, 2014 by CasualSergiu