Beta Vice City

[Tom_Vercetti]

1 hour ago, universetwisters said:

 

That was the story, it was originally supposed to be an expansion for III. Kinda explains why the whole map was rushed and sh*tty tbh, at least design wise

 

You know another working title for Vice City was GTA III: Vice City around February 2002 according to some ancient neoseeker.com threads too!

[super_slav]

On 4/12/2023 at 10:23 PM, Tom_Vercetti said:

apparently work began on Vice City the month after III was released

Highly doubt it, it most likely started at least a month before 3's release basic story probably earlier as Helicopter files and bike files were left over in 3's files, they were probably working on preliminary design while the majority of the team were finishing off 3.

[Comrade Monke]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:52 PM, universetwisters said:

Kinda explains why the whole map was rushed and sh*tty tbh, at least design wise

The map is great 

[super_slav]

23 hours ago, Comrade Monke said:

The map is great 

I disagree, the map is clearly rushed especially second island, feels more like an expansion or test bed for concepts for SA.

[Tom_Vercetti]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:28 PM, super_slav said:

Highly doubt it, it most likely started at least a month before 3's release basic story probably earlier as Helicopter files and bike files were left over in 3's files, they were probably working on preliminary design while the majority of the team were finishing off 3.

 

I read somewhere that development work on Vice City began one month after III was released, it could have been December 2001 or even January 2002 for all we know!

[super_slav]

19 hours ago, Tom_Vercetti said:

I read somewhere that development work on Vice City began one month after III was released, it could have been December 2001 or even January 2002 for all we know!

For all we know it could have been almost finished (map and basics) and the final touches like Audio and missions final touches were done in 9 months. Rock star like to keep their secrets. 9 months is way too quick to make a game like Vice city, they must have had a small team working on it in November-October 2001.

[Tom_Vercetti]

22 hours ago, super_slav said:

For all we know it could have been almost finished (map and basics) and the final touches like Audio and missions final touches were done in 9 months. Rock star like to keep their secrets. 9 months is way too quick to make a game like Vice city, they must have had a small team working on it in November-October 2001.

 

So are you suggesting the map and basics were all finished in two months from October 2001 up to November 2001 then now?

[super_slav]

4 hours ago, Tom_Vercetti said:

So are you suggesting the map and basics were all finished in two months from October 2001 up to November 2001 then now?

I believe the script and at least a partial map possibly part of the first island was made by then. There had to be some overlap in development, that billboard hint is also possible evidence of this. wonder if we can find a date code of the texture. 

[Tom_Vercetti]

20 hours ago, super_slav said:

I believe the script and at least a partial map possibly part of the first island was made by then. There had to be some overlap in development, that billboard hint is also possible evidence of this. wonder if we can find a date code of the texture. 

 

I know which billboard you are talking about, that was the See You In Miami billboard at Francis International Airport too, that was one of the working titles for Vice City before the aforementioned city materialised!

 

The texture would have probably been from around August/September 2001 in my opinion, although I may be wrong!

[super_slav]

1 hour ago, Tom_Vercetti said:

I know which billboard you are talking about, that was the See You In Miami billboard at Francis International Airport too, that was one of the working titles for Vice City before the aforementioned city materialised!

 

The texture would have probably been from around August/September 2001 in my opinion, although I may be wrong!

Yes that is the one. I believe they knew the name of the game, the script and most the map by then, only Rockstar knows but to fit the games development time a bit more than 9 months is needed. Bikes and Helicopters were already in development in 3 and were in the files so work was for sure done before release of 3. Someone modded it into the game but it is very early and clearly unfinished, hence the early pictures of Vice city still using the 3 Heli model but with blue replaced with red. Can't remember if they found it in the Android release since it had beta content in it or not. 

[Tom_Vercetti]

7 hours ago, super_slav said:

Yes that is the one. I believe they knew the name of the game, the script and most the map by then, only Rockstar knows but to fit the games development time a bit more than 9 months is needed. Bikes and Helicopters were already in development in 3 and were in the files so work was for sure done before release of 3. Someone modded it into the game but it is very early and clearly unfinished, hence the early pictures of Vice city still using the 3 Heli model but with blue replaced with red. Can't remember if they found it in the Android release since it had beta content in it or not. 

 

That was the first ever screenshot of Vice City you are on about, dating back to around January 2002 if my analogy is correct my friend!

[super_slav]

15 hours ago, Tom_Vercetti said:

That was the first ever screenshot of Vice City you are on about, dating back to around January 2002 if my analogy is correct my friend!

Correct, didn't know it was the first, game informer had the first shots as far as I know but it means starfish island was likely already made or in development by the time 3 was finished, judging by the crude second island I think worked was done on the first and starfish then greatly accelerated for a quick release.

 

One of the first it was part of the game informer scans

https://web.archive.org/web/20071106210858/http://gouranga.com/nf-scans-gtavc-01.htm

[Tom_Vercetti]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:23 PM, super_slav said:

Correct, didn't know it was the first, game informer had the first shots as far as I know but it means starfish island was likely already made or in development by the time 3 was finished, judging by the crude second island I think worked was done on the first and starfish then greatly accelerated for a quick release.

 

One of the first it was part of the game informer scans

https://web.archive.org/web/20071106210858/http://gouranga.com/nf-scans-gtavc-01.htm

 

It is likely that work was done on the first island when it was originally an expansion to III my friend, and then the second island was blatantly rushed when it became its own game too!

[super_slav]

17 hours ago, Tom_Vercetti said:

It is likely that work was done on the first island when it was originally an expansion to III my friend, and then the second island was blatantly rushed when it became its own game too!

Makes sense as 9 months is far too quick. Allot of changes to the airport so my guess is they worked their way down from the stadium (which wasn't there at the beginning and added late.) The first cutscene kept the beta runway behind Rosenberg when the plane lands it lands on nothing, so that must have been the last part of the map done and there are swamp textures there too so likely some more minor stuff was done but cut back to meet the deadline. If only Rockstar would be more transparent. I would rather play beta builds than GTA 6 as 4 is the last GTA i enjoyed. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by super_slav

[Tom_Vercetti]

5 hours ago, super_slav said:

Makes sense as 9 months is far too quick. Allot of changes to the airport so my guess is they worked their way down from the stadium (which wasn't there at the beginning and added late.) The first cutscene kept the beta runway behind Rosenberg when the plane lands it lands on nothing, so that must have been the last part of the map done and there are swamp textures there too so likely some more minor stuff was done but cut back to meet the deadline. If only Rockstar would be more transparent. I would rather play beta builds than GTA 6 as 4 is the last GTA i enjoyed. 

 

How do you know the stadium was added late into development my friend?

[Carbonox]

4 hours ago, Tom_Vercetti said:

How do you know the stadium was added late into development my friend?

While I guess it's not ever been factually proven, the stadium does, as Badger Goodger once put it, stick out on the side of the map like a giant pimple, feeling extremely tacked on.

[cant remember]

There is also a texture of the map in sunshine autos, and the stadium isn't on there. If you search for "vice city beta map analysis" on Youtube there's a pretty good video (I think by Badger or something) about the differences between that map and the final map.

[Tom_Vercetti]

3 hours ago, cant remember said:

There is also a texture of the map in sunshine autos, and the stadium isn't on there. If you search for "vice city beta map analysis" on Youtube there's a pretty good video (I think by Badger or something) about the differences between that map and the final map.

 

That was left as an Easter Egg to show the player how Vice City supposedly looked like in the 1950s to the 1960s my friend, did you know that by any chance?

[cant remember]

Not sure if they put that map deliberately, but I still believe it's an older version of the map, as opposed to purposefully changing it up to make it 50s because most of the differences aren't things that "naturally" change over time, such as the airport runway being changed from a straight one going through fort baxter to a curved one.

[Kalvin]

It's definitely an earlier version of the map, not an easter egg. The texture for the huge LOD you see when you're on either island matches up with a lot of it (though it's later than Sunshine Autos').

 

 

You can note the lack of stadium, lighthouse, north beach, a larger airport, f*cky leaf links bridge, major lack of roads, so on.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Kalvin

[Tom_Vercetti]

2 hours ago, cant remember said:

Not sure if they put that map deliberately, but I still believe it's an older version of the map, as opposed to purposefully changing it up to make it 50s because most of the differences aren't things that "naturally" change over time, such as the airport runway being changed from a straight one going through fort baxter to a curved one.

 

It is an older version of the map, you’re quite right, the airport runway was changed during development but I have no idea when.

 

42 minutes ago, Kalvin said:

It's definitely an earlier version of the map, not an easter egg. The texture for the huge LOD you see when you're on either island matches up with a lot of it (though it's later than Sunshine Autos').

 

 

You can note the lack of stadium, lighthouse, north beach, a larger airport, f*cky leaf links bridge, major lack of roads, so on.

 

It is actually an alpha version of the map it seems, what do you mean by “later than Sunshine Autos” then now?

[super_slav]

4 hours ago, Tom_Vercetti said:

but I have no idea when

Towards the end of development as I am sure QA testers would have noticed the first cutscene being odd as the plane is clearly landing oddly, noticed on my first play thru when I was 10. If a 10 year old can surely a QA can, also the LOD showing it is another hint.

[Tom_Vercetti]

On 5/9/2023 at 1:56 AM, Carbonox said:

While I guess it's not ever been factually proven, the stadium does, as Badger Goodger once put it, stick out on the side of the map like a giant pimple, feeling extremely tacked on.

It does stick out like that now that I think about it, so it does seem added somewhat late in development.

 

On 5/9/2023 at 8:11 AM, cant remember said:

There is also a texture of the map in sunshine autos, and the stadium isn't on there. If you search for "vice city beta map analysis" on Youtube there's a pretty good video (I think by Badger or something) about the differences between that map and the final map.

That said video was indeed by Badger Goodger and was posted onto YouTube in May 2019 now as well, he pointed out numerous other differences on the map too!

 

17 hours ago, super_slav said:

Towards the end of development as I am sure QA testers would have noticed the first cutscene being odd as the plane is clearly landing oddly, noticed on my first play thru when I was 10. If a 10 year old can surely a QA can, also the LOD showing it is another hint.

I noticed that at around ten years old too, and I know exactly about the LOD you mentioned in your comment too!

[Guest]

.

Edited October 23, 2023 by BigMacToni
.

[Tom_Vercetti]

1 hour ago, SkyLow said:

The so called "Ghost Tower" turned out to be the tower from GTA III in Francis International Airport see for yourself:

Removing this extension from it

Putting the tower's model over the "Ghost Tower"

The Lod texture shape matches with the GTA 3 tower

And lastly, this early clip, the colors and shape are similar

 

Basically R* took the tower from GTA 3 and used it in GTA VC

 

That is an incredible discovery my man, thanks so much for sharing that fact!

[Guest]

Removed

Edited October 10, 2023 by BigMacToni

[Tom_Vercetti]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:19 PM, SkyLow said:

The airport being more complete in the texture and the docks look like final map makes sunshine's map older with the smaller airport and radically different docks

 

That is because that is an alpha map in Sunshine Autos my friend!

[_BlackShadow]

One of the overlooked things on beta i think, at one point Rockstar set a "finger" system for Tommy so he adjusts his finger position per weapon. Not sure they scrapped this or completely broke it during release. (He doesn't adjust his point finger on PS2 as well so it could've been scrapped) Also if you carefully checked the pre-release screenshots Rockstar revisioned Tommy's hands multiple times for some reason. They downgraded his hands every time they shared their progress.

 

 

Pre-Release Screenshots:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by BlackShadowX

[_BlackShadow]

During the Late-Beta as it seen from the screenshot down below Tommy's shirts perfectly hides his croutch. It seems the model problem we have in final also happened during development and Rockstar were able to hide it perfectly. But in final version his broken croutch was exposed. I can think few reasons why they broke the bones in his shirt. Either Rockstar changed some geometry in his shirt and rigged bones didn't like that or they broke the cutscene animation while editing. His eyes also seems to be broken, it's open in pre-release but closed in final version.

 

Also the post on above, i mentioned his hands gradually downgraded. You can compare that in here.

 

Pre-release:

 

Final:

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by BlackShadowX

[_BlackShadow]

It seems in Guardian Angels Mission there were some differences.

When Cubans arrive in the scene, there's a camera angle from backside of Diaz and his goons.

 

 

Also it seems when you retrieve money back to Diaz he speaks with Tommy outside of the car instead sitting in the car. 

 

(Then he enters his car and then drives away, i guess?)

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by BlackShadowX