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The Bad

The Lost and Damned appreciation thread

Recommended Posts

aleex96

I don't know what R* had on his mind when made gta v, but with Johnny they really messed up.

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PhillBellic

I don't know what R* had on his mind when made gta v, but with Johnny they really messed up.

Neither do I when they made that questionable desision of bringing back Johnny.

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Peachrocks

It's kinda sad that TLAD is unappreciated by many people. It's an amazing game and it did fit the biker theme pretty well. I must admit that I'm not a fan of bikers nor hard rock music, but TLAD hooked me into that biker scene. SOA really helped as well in that regard.

 

Going back to TLAD, I love the brotherly connection between all members of The Lost, they were one big family that spent their entire lives riding across the dark and grimey alleyways of Acter, and it did surprise me as well. Despite all the fighting between the members, they still bond each other uniquely and treat each other equally, and this really made me love TLAD. The gameplay is a nice break from GTA IV's sombre and incognito theme. This game also made improvements to friends and activities as well .The bike races were fun. Hitting someone with a baseball bat while riding a motorcycle is pure gold. Gang wars are amazing and fun to play. TLAD's ending also made me feel bad for all the members that are left. Johnny, Terry, Clay, and Angus. It's really embarrassing and awful to see them die pointlessly in V. They should have given a couple of missions and I wish R* made Johnny's death a lot better and more believable than what they did. If R* really wanted to kill Johnny at least. I never wanted Johnny to die since I really felt so bad after the ending of TLAD and they just made him stupid in V. Rockstar just given us a big middle finger to all of TLAD fans, including me. I still think that TLAD is the 2nd best DLC ever, after TLOU's Left Behind. TLAD is not just about bikes, and gang wars, but also family, and friendship are really important in TLAD. It sucks that it didn't get the recgonition it deserved.

 

Incidentally I've never cared for the biker theme much and I still don't, I don't dislike it but it's not something I'm fond of. Point is I always try approach things with an open mind and boy was I impressed. The character depth in TLAD and the motivations for why the characters do what they do is quite deep and even it's strongest supporters don't entirely understand it's depth sometimes, notably about Johnny's line about 'There's always a man' and how that particular line sums up Johnny's struggle perfectly.

 

This isn't a shot at them it's more to say how incredibly deep TLAD's characters were and I think this depth was so misunderstood and interpreted as 'whining'. The number of people I've heard calling Johnny a whiner is ridiculous and yet it totally doesn't surprise me, most people result to insults like that when they don't understand something.

 

Maybe it is really time to go beyond a little thread outlining a story of a 'possibility' that explains a plot hole and actually go forth and post a story on what happens from that plot hole being filled. (Jim and the disappearing 2 million and that he faked his death). But where... hmm...

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Haha365

TLAD had a great story, albeit a bit short. If given more time and resources, it could have been a really great "main" game in the series.

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Lethal Vaccine

I agree ^^^^

 

TLaD is my favorite out of IV, TLaD, and TBoGT. However, if TLaD was released on the magnitude IV was released, with a FULL game instead of a DLC, it would of been absolutely stunning.

 

But with that said, I still prefer TLaD to IV and TBoGT for some reason. I mean, IV is the baseline game, so it's the "best," but for a tiny DLC, TLaD was a 10/10 hands down. I love it WAY more than TBoGT.

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EU Mafia

TLaD is my favorite DLC too, but I think that Johnny's story, background and such, including some tweaks and such, won't allow for a full story. He only wants to keep his Motor Club from falling apart, he has nothing else to accomplish, unlike other GTA protoganists.

 

It's much better than TBoGT, it fits LC so much better.

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Lethal Vaccine

I really like the Unique Prison Bus in TLaD. One of my most favorites...

 

I also really like the Double T Custom and Hakuchou (Spelling?) Custom. Both of which were NOT in TBoGT or V. They were only in TLaD. TLaD was just a very unique DLC and it's the best one yet.

 

Chinatown Wars is great, too, but Idk if you want to call it a DLC, even though it shared the Broker/Dukes/Bohan and Algonquin parts of the map just like in IV, TLaD, TBoGT. It just does not include Alderney State.

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hasidichomeboy

Bikes. Brutal murder. More brutal murder. More weapons to commit brutal murder.

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Lethal Vaccine

Thanks for reminding me. The guns in TLaD were really cool, too. They were good in TBoGT, too, but in TLaD, that shotgun (Street Sweeper) or whatever it was called owned. I usually use that for Gang Wars. Gets the job done. All my other guns appear to be useless during Gang Wars.

 

The Gang Wars are excellent. No GTA Game gives you a Gang to fight against who has RPG's, Grenades, Molotovs, etc, etc. The closest "deadly" Gangs you will find are in GTA III. But other than the Gangs in III, they also were really cool in TLaD, just from the Gang Wars.

 

I felt the Drug Wars in TBoGT were not as brutal and chaotic as the Gang Wars in TLaD. Drug Wars appeared easier. Whereas I died on countless occasions during some of the Gang Wars in TLaD...

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B Dawg

You should always pack a lot of grenades for those. Sometimes you can destroy the entire convoy before their backup arrives giving you an easy win. True, tbogt drug wars are nowhere near as difficult. I could do those without tbogt guns and or explosives at all!

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Lethal Vaccine

But you see, for me, when I do a Gang War, I am forced to wait until ALL backup arrives. At least for AoD Gang. I need the Unique/EC Black and Orange Gang Burrito to spawn during a Gang War to obtain it, but it seems to never spawn and is ultra rare. Only happens on an AoD Gang War during a Siege War or a Convoy War. Most times backup in Bikes or Slamvans will come, though, and not these Gang Burritos. I got a Unique/EC Blue and White Slamvan, but I need a Black/Orange or Blue/White Gang Burrito, too, but it's like pulling teeth waiting for one to spawn since there is a much greater chance the Bikes and Slamvans will come instead.

 

But yeah, for the other Gang Wars, I destroy everything as soon as possible.

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DJToni

Don't get me wrong, but in a weird way I think Johnny's death in GTAV was appropriate.

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Peachrocks

Don't get me wrong, but in a weird way I think Johnny's death in GTAV was appropriate.

If you mean by the theme, then okay having him be a shadow of his former self isn't so bad but there were much better ways of pulling it off.

 

It stings more than a little that such a deep character is killed off by the inconsistent, poorly written, hypocritical, dumb crowd pleaser character.

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Haha365

 

Don't get me wrong, but in a weird way I think Johnny's death in GTAV was appropriate.

If you mean by the theme, then okay having him be a shadow of his former self isn't so bad but there were much better ways of pulling it off.

 

It stings more than a little that such a deep character is killed off by the inconsistent, poorly written, hypocritical, dumb crowd pleaser character.

 

While his death could have been done differently, I think it was to show how Johnny couldn't let go (of Ashley mostly) which led to his downfall. Now I really liked Johnny but his death made sense.

 

Also, I think a lot of people were just so butt hurt over his death, that they don't give Trevor the credit he deserves. He is more deep than a lot of people realize or want to admit.

 

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Niobium

^i disagree. trevor doesn't have depth. most of his character is committed to being a wacky psycho who does stupid things and kills people for no reason.

 

heck, he's not even consistent. he complains all the time that michael betrayed him, but then plots with lester to break out brad and make michael the fall guy.

Edited by Niobium

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Haha365

^i disagree. trevor doesn't have depth. most of his character is committed to being a wacky psycho who does stupid things and kills people for no reason.

 

heck, he's not even consistent. he complains all the time that michael betrayed him, but then plots with lester to break out brad and make michael the fall guy.

 

I guess, to each their own. Yeah I see the wacky and crazy side of Trevor but there is more to it. The prison break you refer to, when does Trevor say Michael is going to be the fall guy? . I don't remember that part, specifically.

 

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chainsoar

TLaD is my favorite DLC too, but I think that Johnny's story, background and such, including some tweaks and such, won't allow for a full story. He only wants to keep his Motor Club from falling apart, he has nothing else to accomplish, unlike other GTA protoganists.

 

It's much better than TBoGT, it fits LC so much better.

 

Considering that you just outlined Jax Teller's sole motivation for 7 seasons of SoA, I'd say it's enough to carry a full game all the way through.

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DJToni

 

Don't get me wrong, but in a weird way I think Johnny's death in GTAV was appropriate.

If you mean by the theme, then okay having him be a shadow of his former self isn't so bad but there were much better ways of pulling it off.

 

It stings more than a little that such a deep character is killed off by the inconsistent, poorly written, hypocritical, dumb crowd pleaser character.

 

First off, Johnny was my favorite GTA protagonist out of all the games. I'm not saying it was awesome that Trevor stomped his head in or anything like that. I was hurt just as much as everyone else was when I played that mission. At first I was mad and thought it was just completely unnecessary to kill him off. But now it sorta feels like it's what was supposed to happen. Basically, we can all agree that GTAIV was a much more serious depiction of a criminal lifestyle, it wasn't all glorified and played up to encourage people to go do crimes. It was darker and more realistic, unlike GTAV's story. TLAD was even darker and even more serious. At the end of TLAD all Johnny was left with was a burnt down clubhouse that used to mean everything to him, only a handful of friends because all the rest were killed (some of which he was forced to kill himself), and a drug addict ex girlfriend. Hell, even his employers were either dead, incarcerated, or corrupt (except Malc). My point is, he was a broken man, and it's understandable that he'd fall into some sort of depression and not give a sh*t anymore. In a way, that's the reality of a criminal lifestyle. His death in GTAV just drives that point home. He's a criminal, like all the other protagonists, he's not like some invincible superhero who can't be killed. Yes, I know Ashley was the direct reason he got killed, but it's all these factors that make his death appropriate in my mind. Just my opinion.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, but in a weird way I think Johnny's death in GTAV was appropriate.

If you mean by the theme, then okay having him be a shadow of his former self isn't so bad but there were much better ways of pulling it off.

 

It stings more than a little that such a deep character is killed off by the inconsistent, poorly written, hypocritical, dumb crowd pleaser character.

 

While his death could have been done differently, I think it was to show how Johnny couldn't let go (of Ashley mostly) which led to his downfall. Now I really liked Johnny but his death made sense.

 

Also, I think a lot of people were just so butt hurt over his death, that they don't give Trevor the credit he deserves. He is more deep than a lot of people realize or want to admit.

 

 

100% agree with you.

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Niobium

^i disagree. trevor doesn't have depth. most of his character is committed to being a wacky psycho who does stupid things and kills people for no reason.

 

heck, he's not even consistent. he complains all the time that michael betrayed him, but then plots with lester to break out brad and make michael the fall guy.

 

i believe in the big score, when trevor drives with lester to the helicopter. i can't remember though

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SuperGTFan

If you payed more attention closely, people doesn't seem to be angry about the fact that he died, it's the bitter fact that he turned meth-head that pisses everyone off, completely contradicting his TLAD personality that people loved him for it.

Edited by SuperGTFan

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Haha365

If you payed more attention closely, people doesn't seem to be angry about the fact that he died, it's the bitter fact that he turned meth-head that pisses everyone off, completely contradicting his TLAD personality that people loved him for it.

Ah but see, Ashley didn't want to leave that lifestyle. Meth wasn't actually Johnny's downfall, Ashley is. She was the reason he was on meth, she was the reason he yelled at Trevor, and she was the reason he is no longer alive.

 

It kind of alludes to this in TLAD, as you are constantly getting Ashley out of hot water. How many times can you do that, before you get burned?

 

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SuperGTFan

TLAD :

 

"You can kill yourself on your own, goodbye Ash"

 

Later

 

"Ashley? The ice got her good, I finally cut her loose in my head, man. I don't know what's left for her other than that need to f*ck up everything around her."

 

GTA V:

 

" I still love her. "

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Haha365

TLAD :

 

"You can kill yourself on your own, goodbye Ash"

 

Later

 

"Ashley? The ice got her good, I finally cut her loose in my head, man. I don't know what's left for her other than that need to f*ck up everything around her."

 

GTA V:

 

" I still love her. "

Obviously wasn't true. Ashley still had hold over Johnny, unfortunate but true. Ashley: 1 (unless you ran her over, as well) Johnny:0

 

On a side note: Out of IV, TLAD, and TBOGT, Johnny was the only protagonist I really liked, so it's not like I was happy about his death.

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Peachrocks

I'm sorry but Trevor is a terrible character. I wanted to like him... I really really did, I had hoped that he wouldn't just be a chaos and lolz character but that's all he really amounts to. Rockstar just attempted to turn that into a workable story line character. It simply doesn't fly.

 

It's really hard to empathize with a character who constantly preaches 'being true' and 'being honest' and bitches at Michael about how much of a snake he is while Trevor manipulates Wade and to a lesser degree Ron into basically being his servants and murders another servant Floyd for no reason other than for the lolz. This hypocrisy removes any meaning to the whole Michael/Trevor relationship because it makes Michael look as though he acted reasonably and it's not supposed to do that. Michael IS meant to look shady, Michael's dialogue and Franklin's reaction reinforces this however Trevor's failings as a character make this extremely difficult to swallow.

 

Even after all this Grevious convinced me to go back and play Trevor's side missions. All I found was more of the same hypocrisy and mindless nonsense. I think another thing that makes Trevor really difficult to swallow is that his worst quality as a character is almost completely ignored by the other characters, including Michael simply so the story can 'pretend' to function. Only two characters call Trevor out on his hypocrisy, Franklin and Curtis Weaver the final bail bond target. Franklin's is a very quite passing reference during their hangouts when Trevor rants about how people don't care about what others when Franklin tried to start about what he didn't like about people and Trevor yells at him saying 'I don't care about what you think' and at the end of Trevor's rant Franklin ends up saying something like "I hate it when people can't see themselves" or something like that. Curtis Weaver is more of a one sided rant that Trevor doesn't reply to at all. None of these are in the main story line.

 

So to be fair, Trevor might have something people may consider depth but to me it's like filling a pool with piss, it's not very pleasant and I don't consider it depth.

 

 

 

 

If you mean by the theme, then okay having him be a shadow of his former self isn't so bad but there were much better ways of pulling it off.

It stings more than a little that such a deep character is killed off by the inconsistent, poorly written, hypocritical, dumb crowd pleaser character.

 

First off, Johnny was my favorite GTA protagonist out of all the games. I'm not saying it was awesome that Trevor stomped his head in or anything like that. I was hurt just as much as everyone else was when I played that mission. At first I was mad and thought it was just completely unnecessary to kill him off. But now it sorta feels like it's what was supposed to happen. Basically, we can all agree that GTAIV was a much more serious depiction of a criminal lifestyle, it wasn't all glorified and played up to encourage people to go do crimes. It was darker and more realistic, unlike GTAV's story. TLAD was even darker and even more serious. At the end of TLAD all Johnny was left with was a burnt down clubhouse that used to mean everything to him, only a handful of friends because all the rest were killed (some of which he was forced to kill himself), and a drug addict ex girlfriend. Hell, even his employers were either dead, incarcerated, or corrupt (except Malc). My point is, he was a broken man, and it's understandable that he'd fall into some sort of depression and not give a sh*t anymore. In a way, that's the reality of a criminal lifestyle. His death in GTAV just drives that point home. He's a criminal, like all the other protagonists, he's not like some invincible superhero who can't be killed. Yes, I know Ashley was the direct reason he got killed, but it's all these factors that make his death appropriate in my mind. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

This I 100% agree with and I personally never said otherwise. All I said was that it was disgraceful that they had Trevor kill him because of the symbolic nature that a character so deep as Johnny was killed by a character that is a complete mess of contradictions and has no meaningful depth and only exists to appease the 'lol random' crowd. The dumb majority gets it's way in so many things, I'm just pissed off this was yet another.

 

Some people may have had an issue with Johnny not letting go of Ashley or rather it contradicting his character but not me. Angus even says it 'That if he is to let go of Ashley that he has to let go completely'. He never does. Words are empty until there's actual action behind them. It's obvious as well why he cares so much about Ashley, she's a lost cause. Johnny has a soft spot for lost causes and tries to do what he perceives as right and tries to save everyone he cares about but the corrupt world continually made that sphere smaller and Johnny kept taking the weight of the world on his shoulders, as Stubbs says Johnny's values are more suited to medieval times, or at least the idealistic medieval, I don't think Johnny would get on too well with the corruption of the average King or Feudal Lord either, but hey that's another story.

 

Him going back to meth isn't really an issue either. It's more of Johnny taking the weight of the world upon him and it crushing him. The only issue I've ever stated was being killed by Trevor and in such a pathetic way. It doesn't even have to be guns and explosions, just not one protagonist killing another and certainly not like that, where Trevor was being a dick and Johnny called him out for it. Johnny and Trevor could have been friends instead and having Johnny be killed by a minor character would be an excellent plot motivator for Trevor and y'know not alienate an entire audience.

 

While his death could have been done differently, I think it was to show how Johnny couldn't let go (of Ashley mostly) which led to his downfall. Now I really liked Johnny but his death made sense.

Also, I think a lot of people were just so butt hurt over his death, that they don't give Trevor the credit he deserves. He is more deep than a lot of people realize or want to admit.

 

 

Killing Johnny doesn't even rank top 5 for reasons I hate Trevor. People have tried convincing me of his depth and have failed because of the varying contradictions where any scene where he does have potential depth is overshadowed by what he does 95% of the time that contradicts anything that might have been meaningful. I've appreciated the attempts because as I've said, even now I really want to like this character, I won't lie there are things are good about Trevor, but I simply cannot ignore all of the hypocrisy and inconsistency with other characters who are held to very different rules when compared to Trevor.

Edited by Peachrocks

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KY Jello

My favorite moment in TLAD was in Diamonds in the rough at the Broker bridge as Johnny riding my bike to the front and leading my brothers. That was such an awesome feeling.

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DJToni

My favorite moment in TLAD was in Diamonds in the rough at the Broker bridge as Johnny riding my bike to the front and leading my brothers. That was such an awesome feeling.

YES. That was my favorite moment too. A lot of times I would have a save file right before that mission just so I could replay that moment whenever I wanted. Except that Terry and Clay always rode out of formation if you called them...

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Miamivicecity

 

 

Killing Johnny doesn't even rank top 5 for reasons I hate Trevor. People have tried convincing me of his depth and have failed because of the varying contradictions where any scene where he does have potential depth is overshadowed by what he does 95% of the time that contradicts anything that might have been meaningful. I've appreciated the attempts because as I've said, even now I really want to like this character, I won't lie there are things are good about Trevor, but I simply cannot ignore all of the hypocrisy and inconsistency with other characters who are held to very different rules when compared to Trevor.

 

Same. I've tried to give Trevor a chance, but I honestly don't see this so called "depth". One side of the fan base says he personifies the general mayhem the typical GTA player engages in and the other says he has "depth" people aren't willing to admit, but I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to admit to something if they don't see it.

 

If I had to be fair trying to put aside my dislike for his character there are times throughout the story where there's the potential for more than meets the eye, but as you said it's overshadowed a large majority of the time by his actions. It seems to go no where.

 

IMO people try to make him seem like something he's not. I actually believe R*'s intention behind him was nothing more than to create someone for the "lolz" and to try and justify all the crazy sh*t in GTA V. Michael has depth, Trevor doesn't.

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TheOneLibertonian

In all honesty, I hated they way Rockstar characterized Johnny in GTA V more than Trevor stomping on Johnny's head. Trevor is an awful character with no depth whatsover and from start to finish, he is still the same old annoying psychopath. But I really hated Rockstar made Johnny into a stupid meth addict together with Ashley. It doesn't make sense IMO. Johnny wanted to stay away from Ashley due to her addiction, but what happened? He became stupid and f*cked Ashley until they are together again in Blaine County as a meth addict. Johnny in V felt like a shadow of is former glory. He's not the badass biker we all know and knew in TLAD, he was just a pussy in V. I can't believe it, but it was just awful and plain stupid.

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Uncle Vlad

Thanks for reminding me. The guns in TLaD were really cool, too. They were good in TBoGT, too, but in TLaD, that shotgun (Street Sweeper) or whatever it was called owned. I usually use that for Gang Wars. Gets the job done. All my other guns appear to be useless during Gang Wars.

 

The Gang Wars are excellent. No GTA Game gives you a Gang to fight against who has RPG's, Grenades, Molotovs, etc, etc. The closest "deadly" Gangs you will find are in GTA III. But other than the Gangs in III, they also were really cool in TLaD, just from the Gang Wars.

 

I felt the Drug Wars in TBoGT were not as brutal and chaotic as the Gang Wars in TLaD. Drug Wars appeared easier. Whereas I died on countless occasions during some of the Gang Wars in TLaD...

 

I´m doing the Gang Wars at the moment. It´s such a great side activity. I finished 16 of them at the moment, since they´re getting harder now, I´ll do the next ones when I finished "Heavy Toll", when you get the "Street Sweeper" or assault shotgun. It comes in handy when the gang wars are getting harder.

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B Dawg

In all honesty, I hated they way Rockstar characterized Johnny in GTA V more than Trevor stomping on Johnny's head. Trevor is an awful character with no depth whatsover and from start to finish, he is still the same old annoying psychopath. But I really hated Rockstar made Johnny into a stupid meth addict together with Ashley. It doesn't make sense IMO. Johnny wanted to stay away from Ashley due to her addiction, but what happened? He became stupid and f*cked Ashley until they are together again in Blaine County as a meth addict. Johnny in V felt like a shadow of is former glory. He's not the badass biker we all know and knew in TLAD, he was just a pussy in V. I can't believe it, but it was just awful and plain stupid.

Being back with Ashley is a plausible thing, but why would he do drugs and f*ck himself up after getting his gang back up and strong and somehow taking out all of the Angels Of Death across US, only to pussy out to Trevor, of all the people. Italians? Ripped them off and survived, while Jim either died or faked his death and got away with the money and his family. Billy Grey, Brian Jeremy and the lost outcasts? Obliterated. Angels Of Death? Made them extinct. Trevor the meth-addicted psycho with mommy issues? What the f*ck happened here? The hell happened with Terry and Clay as well? They didn't do the gang any justice whatsoever.

 

My favorite moment in TLAD was in Diamonds in the rough at the Broker bridge as Johnny riding my bike to the front and leading my brothers. That was such an awesome feeling.

 

'Alright boys. All I know is that these diamonds are being held by a man about town called Tony Prince, and we're to take 'em. There should be a good profit in it for The Lost MC, if this comes through, so let's f*cking do it. Yeah? Who knows, maybe down the line, there'll be an opportunity to rip off the smug guido who gave us the job in the first place. Come on! Brothers for life, Lost forever.'

Edited by B Dawg

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