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X S

#GamerGate, or Wrath of the Slopebrowed Weaseldicks

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DeafMetal

To what end would you have me lead you down that path, Deaf? #Gamergate is nigh but a fart in the wind.

That doesn't really answer my question. You made a claim, and I asked for a little elaboration on the reasoning of the claim. Farts need not be included, excluding Mr. Edgy-Anarchist's bowel movements.

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Otter

What claim, you dime store pedant? Quit alluding to sh*t and just speak your f*cking mind. #gamergate #notallgamers #ribblydibbly

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DeafMetal

OK, let me highlight it for clarity.

 

You said:

I called the 'movement' idiotic, because, well, it lacks everything a movement requires.

 

I asked:

What are the prerequisites for something to be a movement, if I may ask?

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make total destroy

for starters:

-real-life presence

-a network of individuals and/or organizations with a unifying, coherent interest/goal

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Coin

I decided to give Chris Kluwe's post another go around and read it to completion.

 

I now have cancer. :(

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Otter

@deaf: To what end, again? I'm saying that gamergate is pointless, aimless, and muddled. Do you need a definition of any of those words, friend? The point is - you can't even explain the thing without getting into an argument. It's a complete and utter failure. Time to move on.

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DeafMetal

To what end, again? I'm saying that gamergate is pointless, aimless, and muddled. Do you need a definition of any of those words, friend? The point is - you can't even explain the thing without getting into an argument. It's a complete an utter failure. Time to move on.

It's a question. Again, you made a claim, I called for elaboration. I'm not trying to have you undress for the cameras. No need to get defensive, friend.

 

As per your points of aimless and failed movement...

 

Gawker Media is the owner of Kotaku and overall pile of dirtbags. Recently, one of the writers made the statement that bullying should be brought back and that nerds should be "shamed and degraded" into submission. His boss, Max Read, egged him on. Mind you, these were during National Bullying-Prevention Month. And, again mind you, these people are writers for Gawker media, not idiot teenagers; professionals should understand the concept of "time and place."

 

GamerGate spent its time emailing advertisers of Gawker. The result was: Intel, Nissan, Mercedes Benz, Adobe, Olympus, among others I'm probably forgetting pulling out or publicly distancing themselves from the website. Gawker went from gloating to trying to trying to sweep it under the rug, to attacking the movement, to issuing an apology. In about a week.

 

That's not mentioning things like funding the bulk of a feminist organization whose goal was to get women into game development and give money to charity; after the "SJWs" tried to sabotage it because Ms. Zoe Quinn didn't like them. That's not mentioning the assorted charity drives. Hell, maybe throw in the ethical changes some of the sites have made, including The Escapist. And not to mention the fact that it's over two months old now and still growing; the subreddit gaining about 1k new members every 1.5 days or so from my observations.

 

So maybe you should bring out your definitions of the words, because they sure as hell don't line up with any dictionary I've ever read.

 

And with that, I'm heading to bed.

Edited by DeafMetal

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Otter

You do that pops. The thing will be just as fruitless and muddled in the morning. ;)

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The-King

Anyone who throws around "SJW" while complaining about ad hominem in the same breath is a f*cking hypocrite.

 

 

And no, the irony of my post isn't lost on me, so if you're going to use that to attack me try something else.

 

2/10 please try again.

Edited by The-King

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Moonshield

I'm not sure that was exclusively directed at you, not to mention you took care to address it in your post.

 

 

Also: see above pic. A leaked Guardian email to internal Guardian staff. Note the subject line and the content of the email. You can't expect a fair report from a site that has an agenda with this subject.

 

Cool wicker man. The #killallmen hashtag is pretty obviously the "idiotic campaign" to which she was referring, but I can see how bias will put blinders on you. The only thing your link provided is that the Bernsteins and Woodwards of GamerGate are as self-righteous and as easily-incensed as the "SJWs" they oppose.

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Otter

King, it was more of a blanket statement, but putting a disclaimer at the end of your post about how you recognize your argument is flawed doesn't excuse your insane ramblings. "I'm not racist, but..."

 

Let's drop the pissed-off-internet-kid-on-a-rant thing, and acknowledge that these concentrated campaigns of harassment fuelled mainly by misplaced anger are leaderless, useless, and damaging.

 

The only thing salvageable from #gamergate is a larger awareness of how the new media operates and how little we've come to question it to date. It's a far larger issue than just games, and it's something we should be talking about. It's a shame that the discussion is so tangled up with all this disgusting anti-quinn, anti-anita bullsh*t - but it is, and #gamergate is useless because of it.

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Voit Turyv

Too difficult, didn't read. What was the fuss about?

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Otter

Some guy said, 'hey, that girl f*cked a dude who could possibly advance her career in gaming' and, despite it perhaps being a fabrication, led to a continual torrent of misinformation, misogyny, idiocy and arm-chair hash-tivism.

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TEoS

Too difficult, didn't read. What was the fuss about?

 

something something corruption in gaming journalism something something feminism something something RAGE

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Mr. House

Guardian link. Felicia Day.

 

If someone were to mention something like Adam Baldwin interviewing with Fox News as noteworthy enough to blanket-label an entire group of people, everyone would scream fire.

 

Edit: link related: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2jguxg/the_guardian_accidentally_sent_out_an_internal/ (the Ralph Retort site is not something I really like since they dwell too much in personal attacks, but they do get to the point)

 

pic for the link-loathers:

GUARDIANEMAIL1.png

 

 

 

The Guardian has consistently been praised by both the left and the right and impartial bodies for journalistic credibility and integrity and regardless of how you feel about Felicia Day, that actually happened to her so get that sh*t outta here.

 

That leaked email is pretty much how people should feel about and deal with this.

 

The only thing salvageable from #gamergate is a larger awareness of how the new media operates and how little we've come to question it to date.

I really don't think it has achieved that. It has turned the whole thing into some monolithic joke and has damaged any real credibility a movement attempting to expose that can achieve for the near future, lest it be linked to this embarrassment.

 

Overall it has done more damage to exposing journalistic corruption than it has helped.

Edited by Myron

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DeafMetal

@Myron - you are free to think of the movement as you wish. You can cover your ears and refuse to look at the items of interest I and others around the net will point at. You can live in your fantasy world of never being even remotely wrong on the internet to look like a 1337 3edgy5me bada$$. You can believe in a fantasy word where tens of thousands of people of all genders, ages, races, and creeds just got up and decided "you know what, I'm gonna harass women for two months." You can "listen and believe" people who are morally reprehensible without so much as a question. You can fool yourself into thinking that a grown-ass man with a very bright career such as myself totally gets off on harassing people on the internet and sending death threats. That's not an issue at all.

 

However, people who write for a professional news outlet should not be doing that kind of sh*t. They are held to a higher level of rationality and are expected to actually look at things with an open mind before blasting them. If you excuse those types of internal emails among the staff that encourage the driving of the conversation and pushing of agendas, then you are part of the problem. If you are willing to excuse pushing an agenda on the media so long as it's the one you agree with, then you need to reevaluate your principles.

 

@Moonshield - you may be right. Yeah - everyone hold on to your underwear - I MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG ON THE INTERNET AND I FREELY ADMIT IT BECAUSE I WANT A DISCUSSION AND NOT A CIRCLEJERK TO RE-AFFIRM MY BELIEFS. Now, instead of doing passive-aggressive sh*t or beating a dead horse, let me show you how I came to that conclusion:

Based on that information, I saw it as this: a person in The Guardian is frustrated by GamerGate, and emails to his colleagues that they should not pay attention to the movement, and that they will be having two guests over. She also sarcastically includes "#killallmen" a la Otter here.

 

Now let me tell you why I think you may be right:

  • On the second sentence, the email writer specifically names GamerGate. If I were referring to the "idiotic campaign" on the first sentence, I would simply say "it."
  • A VICE blogger tweeted out #killallmen as a response to GamerGate (though the bio is interesting, to say the least)

My head isn't so far up my own ass that I refuse to see where you're coming from. Can we be adults and drop the rhetoric to try and see it from another perspective?

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Otter

I guess I just fail to see your point, Deaf. #Gamergate, as a movement seeking reform of the gaming press, is fundamentally flawed because its intrinsic involvement with the anti-Quinn and anti-Sarkeesian crowd. There's no clear leadership, and when you have a bunch of angry internet folk without a leader, you have pandemonium.

 

Now then we're left with a situation where I mention the name Felicia Day and you respond to that in such a way to suggest that her opinion at all is, alone, immediately null and void.

 

Bring up #gamergate anywhere else and you'll notice the same thing - you can't discuss journalistic integrity in this context without being dragged into a mudslinging battle with overhyped spastics and smug sophomoric dipsh*ts about "Social Justice Warriors" and how "Anita doesn't even PLAY GAMES!!!!". It's a ludicrous, lost cause. If it ever was about the press in the f*cking first place.

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DeafMetal

I guess I just fail to see your point, Deaf. #Gamergate, as a movement seeking reform of the gaming press, is fundamentally flawed because its intrinsic involvement with the anti-Quinn and anti-Sarkeesian crowd. There's no clear leadership, and when you have a bunch of angry internet folk without a leader, you have pandemonium.

Thank you. I don't expect you to be completely on my side and I won't think you're "f*cking retarded" if you aren't, but I expect the same from you. Nobody wins by painting sh*t black and white. I see your point but I don't agree with you.

 

I'm not dismissing Felicia Day, but rather I think it's questionable to completely dismiss a movement based on a report from her, a TV actress, coming from a news outlet that has been heavily slanted towards one side of the coin, The Guardian. See a quote from this article for example: Utah State University defends handling of threat to GamerGate critic Sarkeesian. The threat did not mention GamerGate. What was the point of mentioning "GamerGate critic?" These are also the same sites that ignore all the death and rape threats that pro-GG men, women, and their families face because it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

Now - if we are discussing the communities around GamerGate, then I would like to encourage you to see them for yourself.

 

This is one of the two most prominent gatherings for GG supporters: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

This is the biggest gathering for detractors of GG: http://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi

 

Here are two comics made to ridicule the other side:

Pro-GG: http://i.imgur.com/5PaaoYU.jpg

Anti-GG: http://i.imgur.com/g2eXZTs.jpg

 

I'd like to challenge you to do the following:

  1. Create a throwaway account on reddit, but don't make it apparent it is by its name.
  2. Go to /r/GamerGhazi and post a link titled something along the lines of "I think GamerGate is stupid, but this is pretty funny" and link to the Pro-GG comic.
  3. Create another throwaway account on reddit.
  4. Go to /r/KotakuInAction and post a link titled something along the lines of "I think anti-GG is stupid, but this is pretty funny" and link to the Anti-GG comic.
  5. Wait half an hour and get back to me with the results.

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Otter

Please, just cut to the chase and tell me where you expect this little experiment would get me. If you're trying to illustrate that there are two sides to every story, then great. You're wrong. There are many sides... one of which happens to be true: Gamergate is irreparably entwined with bullsh*t feminist bashing.

 

Please link me to any recent [what you would call] reputable - and significant - source about #gamergate that offers a clear message about journalistic ethics without even tangentially referring to the ugly side of the movement. I mean, holy f*ck, your "Pro GG" comic strip is about overhyped feminists. What, exactly, are you trying to sell here?

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DeafMetal

I'd like you to get a feel of the communities surrounding it for yourself, as that seems to be your main point of argument. Of course there's many sides, but these just happen to be the biggest ones. The comics are meant to ridicule and exaggerate the other side. Pro-GG thinks they're dealing with oversensitive hyperbole feminists who don't actually care about feminism; Anti-GGs think they're dealing with deluded manchildren who don't actually care about ethics. Hence the comics. I'm not trying to sell anything other than having you check out the communities by yourself instead of taking them at face value from third parties.

 

And sure. Here's one of the latest updates on the whole Gawker stuff, three hours ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k7w29/gawker_backpedal_and_bargaining_attempts_will/

 

Misc. posted today:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k80bk/both_ign_and_polygon_now_aknowledging_ethical/

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k8duk/general_motors_will_not_associate_themselves_with/

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k816v/colgate_calls_it_quits_with_gawker_the_ralph/

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k8m3v/trust_but_verify/

 

Bonus threats from "feminists:" http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k8e2y/kingofpol_doxxed_and_sent_a_knife_in_the_mail/

Bonus threat on livelihood of GG supporters: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k8fza/game_design_consultant_ernest_adams_threatens/

Bonus meta criticisms on the direction of GG: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2k5oxt/psa_reality_check_time_gamers_its_important_that/

 

Among others. Just check the subreddit I linked to.

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Otter

I guess I can, in some small form, appreciate that you're trying to 'educate' me, but both sides in the debate are bloated and muddled. Burn the f*cker down.

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TEoS

Who is paying you to shut down and hide this discussion, Otter? Is it Zoey Quinn? IGN? Reddit? Or is it the queen bee, Anita Sarkeesian herself that sent you here. I see right through your sh*t, you corrupt feminazi,

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DeafMetal

First, there was a 16 year old girl who sent death threats because she wanted to be a"good feminist." Now there's some dumbass college kid who is doxxing and filing false police reports against a lawyer, and now the dude is getting cops/FBI involved.

 

Let's cut the GamerGate/"Feminist" bullsh*t here for a second: sending threats and using the police resources as toys are both serious f*cking things. If the FBI gets involved, there will be serious life-altering consequences, because the FBI doesn't play f*cking games. They don't give a sh*t about online crusades against muhsoggyknee or "sjws."

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