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Raz3r95

Was Ryder originally going to become a traitor?

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JaxPla

Well back in 2004 (when GTA:SA came out) The ai's were not very well coded as i realize after playing alot they usually always turn out to glitch for instance i was playing and when i was on the last mission i think it was to kill officer tenpenny he died instanly without even me having to chase him and then my game glitched and froze because ai's were really glitchy back when it came out but when GTA:SA came out it was on ps2 so there were no updates like on ps3 and xbox so there was no way to fix that until a new version of the of the game came out on disk so pretty much my point here is they spent more time on coding rather than the story because the story is a little f*cked off thats why

 

~Jax~

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Krawk

I get a bit peeved when during the mission Los Desperados CJ tells Sweet he knows, he knows, he's done a lot for the family since he's been gone. Sweet just gives him a bitch response. Sweet really has no clue how he got out of jail does he?

 

I had written a script for a sequel, SA World that was still based on the III engine but utilized all 3 areas (Liberty City, Vice City, San Andreas.) Sweet finds out what Carl did for him via Toreno. The script still has CJ as the lead character. It could have been intense but I suppose R* never read it. It would have been a pretty easy to make game as all 3 worlds were already created.

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hot-temper27

"Childhood friend" does not equate to friend - for all we know Ryder could have bullied CJ in their childhood and carried on with that behavior when he returns, which is why he felt no remorse or sympathy when killing him whereas it seems like Smoke was always alot more fair with CJ and they had a much better relationship than him and Ryder.

 

It's highly likely it was just a last minute decision though.

If he bullied CJ, wouldn't that mean that Sweet wouldn't include him in his gang and he wouldn't be apart of the GSF due to "bullying" the leader's brother? Man, people would just assume anything.

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AuSsIeThUnDeR36

I think Ryder wasn't originally meant to be one of the good guys. One vehicle comes to mind - Green Sabre. Who is linked to that vehicle? Ryder and Big Smoke.

Now remember during the mission Drive By, CJ wants to talk about how his mom died. Ryder even lies to CJ by saying "Some say they saw the green sabre doin' the works." C'mon Ryder, you were there the whole time. To me this is even a clue that Big Smoke and Ryder killed CJ's mom, because the Green Sabre was involved, Ryder even revealed that fact.

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lil weasel

So, Rockstar didn't have a complete story when they started production.

The Rockstar writers and coders just winged it as they went along developing the story line day by day?

 

Dan Houser, James Worrall, and DJ Pooh (Mark Jordan) just gathered together all those people everyday to tell them what was going to be changed as they all rode along to work each day.

Edited by lil weasel

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AuSsIeThUnDeR36

So, Rockstar didn't have a complete story when they started production.The Rockstar writers and coders just winged it as they went along developing the story line day by day?Dan Houser, James Worrall, and DJ Pooh (Mark Jordan) just gathered together all those people everyday to tell them what was going to be changed as they all rode along to work each day.

How did you know that? Lol

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Boyz2Society

I think Ryder wasn't originally meant to be one of the good guys. One vehicle comes to mind - Green Sabre. Who is linked to that vehicle? Ryder and Big Smoke.

Now remember during the mission Drive By, CJ wants to talk about how his mom died. Ryder even lies to CJ by saying "Some say they saw the green sabre doin' the works." C'mon Ryder, you were there the whole time. To me this is even a clue that Big Smoke and Ryder killed CJ's mom, because the Green Sabre was involved, Ryder even revealed that fact.

Dude, no one in the whole game was a good guy. Robbing sh*t and killing people does not make you a "good guy". Gangsters are not "good guys". The whole GTA series has no "good guys".

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90sGTA

I, too, believe that Ryder's betrayal was improvised. I mean you can tell that Smoke's betrayal was carefully thought-provoking and unexpected by gamers to say the least. Ryder's betrayal, on the other hand, made absolutely no sense at all. My guess would be that R* never planned to have Ryder as a character on the game and just thought him up the last minute of making the game just to have a character that's entertaining (and didn't plan out his motives in the game as well.).

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thegreekman99

The Ryder MUST HAVE BEEN A TRAITOR because the story flow it would be sh*t.The human always wants to discover new things.Even if we had the final version and the Ryder wasnt a traitor or it was the final boss or it was staying with Groove Street.Even if they had changed the scenario to the ones i mentioned we were still will be here arguing about the Ryder.So the answer to this "question" is really difficult and maybe it will never found what it would be more suitable.Unless you are one of the "story developers" of Rockstar.

Edited by thegreekman99

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lil weasel

Really now, what did Ryder do that was Traitorish, besides being a better friend to Big Smoke?

He never attacked any of the Family, he supplied weapons to the gang, and he was a hard drug user, which Carl was well aware of. So Ryder represented Big Smoke at the cartel meeting, big deal.

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thegreekman99

Ok Big smoke betrayed groove street and Ryder followed the path of big smoke.The game back in the day was really good anyway and it will be always in my heart.As I mentioned before, we all will be looking about possible stories and details in the game.This is why they are so impressed about the beta version (even if the story wasnt changed and changed minor things) ,but it really doesn't matter at all.

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chapapote

In retrospect, something just seemed off about Ryder's character after his betrayal. When Cesar shows CJ Big Smoke and Ryder's betrayal. Cj's all upset about Big Smoke and completely ignores Ryder as if he wasn't there. Then when he tells Sweet, he only tells him about Big Smoke betraying the GSF and doesn't even mention Ryder. Later, in the mission Pier 69, CJ takes one look at Ryder and just kills him right away. No cutscene, no conversation, no dramatic scene, nothing. Just Ryder getting killed and mission passed. CJ even did it without emotion. Also, when Sweet gets out of jail, he doesn't even ask about Ryder or where he's at as if there was never a person named Ryder with him to begin with. All that and he's CJ's childhood friend. His friend from childhood. I'm beginning to think that R* just improvised Ryder's betrayal and didn't actually plan on having him as a traitor. What about you guys?

 

Ryder was more like Sweet during the LS set of missions. Both of them are constantly blaming CJ for quitting Los Santos, and most of their missions involve stuff in benefit of the GSF (yes, those weapons did end in GSF hands, the GSF grunts carry better weapons after you complete Ryder's mission if you didn't spray all tags). Smoke, on the other hand, was (apparently) supportive of CJ and his missions usually involved stuff for his own interests.

 

Talking about Pier 69, don't you think T-Bone got killed in an even more anti-climatic way than Ryder (especially he never trusted CJ, which asks for some lines like "I knew from the start you were a traitor", or something)? As if he was originally the one involved in the boat chase, and had to be killed in an improvised manner to make place to Ryder? Well, it's just a theory I've come by right now...

Edited by chapapote

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Failure

If Big Smoke convinced Ryder to betray the gang by making money with drugs, why would Ryder give missions to CJ which involves stealing weapons to better equip the gang? Wouldn't it make the GSF harder to defeat? Also, Smoke and Ryder did not know that CJ will be coming back from Liberty City...

 

And also, why did BS let CJ survive? He could have told Tenpenny to kill him in Angel Pine, and find another gangster to do the work for him. Also, Ryder could have killed Kendl, as she didn't let him bang her... but Ryder didn't. The Aztecas are a weak gang, and Cesar can't shoot for real. So, I guess Ryder wasn't going to be a traitor during original development, but they later changed his personality.

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American Viking

The whole game , Sweet and Ryder claims that CJ is a buster, CJ is weak, CJ can't do nothing right and they don't really need him...

AND they say, especially ryder, that they are the real deal.

 

But during the missions:

 

Sweet :

-Can't handle a bunch of seville boulevard families who are only heated with 9mm and CALLS YOU FOR HELP

-Can't survive gang wars all alone if you don't protect him (beat down at b-dub, grove 4 life)

-While you killed 1000 people, messed with the FBI, Army, robbed a mafia casino, learned to fly a apache, stole a military Jet etc... Sweet was in Jail and didn't do sh*t

 

Ryder:

-Can't beat up the ballas all alone without getting his ass kicked( mission cleaning the hood) if you don't help.

-Can't kill the vagos and ballas all alone without getting killed ( mission catalyst) if you don't help.

-Can't handle the soldiers all alone and dies if you don't get out of the forklifter constantly to help him ( funny how he said : ,,just weekend soldiers, no deal for real ogs'' before...)

-Gets killed by CJ without even trying to fight.

 

Thats why i hate them, they keep telling us that we suck, but are losers themselves :D

 

Don't base anything off of what happens in gameplay because the games are designed to make you a one man army. Only rely on what happens in cutscenes as that's the actual story of how things are. Btw, the title is unsuited for the actual topic.

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chapapote

And also, why did BS let CJ survive? He could have told Tenpenny to kill him in Angel Pine, and find another gangster to do the work for him.

 

Nah, it wouldn't have worked. Tempenny had too much personal pleasure in screwing over CJ, for some reason. He even went for him right after he arrived to Los Santos!

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WhatKilledU

I agree with Ryder, everytime i heard him saying "busta" i wanted to kill him.But i disagree with Sweet. He is just pissed off because CJ was late at their mom's funeral, just like at their little brother Brian's funeral.

I like your Half Life profile picture.

 

Yeah,sometimes I got annoyed with Ryder but then some of his lines were just hilarious.

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Watain

I think it was probably just Big Smoke and Ryder wanting to climb the ladder towards something higher than being a gang-banger forever and ever. Especially Big Smoke who's got the brains and could see the green in it, but is held back by Sweet who is the leader. BS probably just used Ryder to get extra influence in their operation because he knew Ryder was rather weak and easy to manipulate, but perhaps still better at gang-banging than his own fat ass. They knew Sweet would stay true to the Grove Street families and keep banging, so they had "no choice" but to sell him, CJ, and the Grove out.

 

I think it's also obvious throughout the first Los Santos chapter that Big Smoke and Ryder has got dirty secrets behind Sweet and CJ's backs. CJ asks why Big Smoke moved out of Grove Street and Ryder is just one shady dude. During that drive-by mission Big Smoke doesn't even try to shoot the Ballas, instead building more fat on his already fat ass. Then, of course, we have Tenpenny and Polasky who are the true brains and manipulaters behind it all.

 

I wasn't really surprised that CJ took down Ryder along with T-Bone in San Fiero - he/they simply had no part to play out anymore, they were just the muscle. And Ryder, that coward, finally showed/confirmed his true colors when he took that boat and tried to run away like a sissy. So much for CJ being a "bustah", right?

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Coleman627

"Childhood friend" does not equate to friend - for all we know Ryder could have bullied CJ in their childhood and carried on with that behavior when he returns, which is why he felt no remorse or sympathy when killing him whereas it seems like Smoke was always alot more fair with CJ and they had a much better relationship than him and Ryder.

 

It's highly likely it was just a last minute decision though.

I'm sorry, but please refresh my memory. Are we talking about the same guy who asked for a hug from Ryder the minute he met him? Why would CJ want a hug from the guy who bullied him? That makes absolutely no sense at all. So that "theory" is invalid.

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Y Λ N K X V

Ya'll hate on Ryder but most of his lines are hilarious.

 

"I'll give up the water, if you give up being a busta."

 

"You can't stop me, you busta Carl."

 

"Who you calling a boy fool?"

 

"Move. Here. Don't be sweating me motherf*cker."

 

"Go hit the wet nigga, go hit the wet, aah busta."

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roadrage19

 

In retrospect, something just seemed off about Ryder's character after his betrayal. When Cesar shows CJ Big Smoke and Ryder's betrayal. Cj's all upset about Big Smoke and completely ignores Ryder as if he wasn't there. Then when he tells Sweet, he only tells him about Big Smoke betraying the GSF and doesn't even mention Ryder. Later, in the mission Pier 69, CJ takes one look at Ryder and just kills him right away. No cutscene, no conversation, no dramatic scene, nothing. Just Ryder getting killed and mission passed. CJ even did it without emotion. Also, when Sweet gets out of jail, he doesn't even ask about Ryder or where he's at as if there was never a person named Ryder with him to begin with. All that and he's CJ's childhood friend. His friend from childhood. I'm beginning to think that R* just improvised Ryder's betrayal and didn't actually plan on having him as a traitor. What about you guys?

 

Ryder was more like Sweet during the LS set of missions. Both of them are constantly blaming CJ for quitting Los Santos, and most of their missions involve stuff in benefit of the GSF (yes, those weapons did end in GSF hands, the GSF grunts carry better weapons after you complete Ryder's mission if you didn't spray all tags). Smoke, on the other hand, was (apparently) supportive of CJ and his missions usually involved stuff for his own interests.

 

Talking about Pier 69, don't you think T-Bone got killed in an even more anti-climatic way than Ryder (especially he never trusted CJ, which asks for some lines like "I knew from the start you were a traitor", or something)? As if he was originally the one involved in the boat chase, and had to be killed in an improvised manner to make place to Ryder? Well, it's just a theory I've come by right now...

 

I heard something about that. Ryder was supposed to be the one shot off the pier while T-Bone was the one who escaped via speedboat. Seriously though, I can't help but think maybe Ryder wasn't even gonna be a character for the game to begin with and he was just added in there in a haphazard manner.

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XtreemeX

Why Did Ryder Sold the grove Out If He Was Shooting The ballas during the green saber but he was deal with tenpenny did ryder got mad ? :panic:

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A.C.M.

the lazy Rockstar ran out of ideas to implement for Ryder and took easy way out by editing done story little bit to get it over with, so cheap editing they forgot to record/add voice lines to green sabre.

Then they simply grounded cesar and cj in photo opportunity (second voicelines laziness) and added ryder to there.

After that on pier 69 t-bone and ryder are swapped (tbone suppose to run away via boats but they decided to give little "importance" to the execution/chase of ryder)

Edited by ACM-Jan

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XtreemeX

the lazy Rockstar ran out of ideas to implement for Ryder and took easy way out by editing done story little bit to get it over with, so cheap editing they forgot to record/add voice lines to green sabre.

Then they simply grounded cesar and cj in photo opportunity (second voicelines laziness) and added ryder to there.

After that on pier 69 t-bone and ryder are swapped (tbone suppose to run away via boats but they decided to give little "importance" to the execution/chase of ryder)

what bought ryder to sold the grove out

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A.C.M.

in story point of view (as rockstar want us to believe) ryder was given shares in Big smokes drug buisness and since this guy is doing anything for money then obviously swallowed the hook, ryder always follows the money and guns.

He was fed lies by smoke also to make sure he follows!

Edited by ACM-Jan

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XtreemeX

in story point of view (as rockstar want us to believe) ryder was given shares in Big smokes drug buisness and since this guy is doing anything for money then obviously swallowed the hook, ryder always follows the money and guns.

He was fed lies by smoke also to make sure he follows!

and why didn't cj shoots them when he was in the car with cesar

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XtreemeX

ok thx

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XtreemeX

ok thx

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A.C.M.

cj was stunned by smoke betrayal and also since ryder was "invisible" to him due to Rockstars cheap edit then he couldn't even think of shooting ryder then and in photo opportunity there was no clear shot for ryder since that was cheaply edited mission too hence cj wasn't told enough info to kill ryder yet there either. Finally as pier 69 comes you are suppose to kill him anyway because he was just swapped with t'bone in beta. No matter what ryder would have got some dirty money from someone during the story which is the reason to kill him in pier 69 in original version of story already.

Edited by ACM-Jan

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SMACKED!

Ryder was a loyal guy 'til the moment he was taken along by Big Smoke to join him because he was affraid of doing it along, as Smoke was Ryder's homeboy and Ryder was one moneyhead just like Smoke so they did it.

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AzelfandQuilava

A lot of folks seem to misinterpret Ryder and CJ's friendship as forced. They're both that one friend they can be complete assholes to and still have their back. We all have that kinda dude/dudette in our lives, minus the Gang-banging part.

 

That said, San Andreas' plot is such a complete f*cking mess that it almost doesn't surprise that Ryder did such a 180 degree turn and became a minor antagonist.

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