Do you think Rockstar betrayed us?

[W4RLORD]

 

Rockstar did not betray anyone. I think they did well with GTAV considering that the PS3 and Xbox 360 are 8 and 9 years old respectively. On the other hand, console limitations are obviously not the explanation for all flaws the game has.

 

The lack of interiors is one of the things that many seem to complain about, and that's where technical limitations don't apply for instance. Let us say that each interior is uniquely textured and modelled then the disk space might be a limitation. But even then the notion that ancient hardware is the answer for the lack of interiors is rather ludicrous. So, in my view, this is a valid complaint.

 

It's a different story with the artificial intelligence (AI of NPCs and car drivers, amount of traffic rendered on-screen, police AI, et cetera). Any and all shortcomings can be blamed on the console hardware, especially in a demanding open world game. Let's use GTAV as a prime example. As you probably have noticed, it is often enough to punch a NPC only once to knock them out. Or maybe they are even dead, then. That wasn't so much the case in IV, and I guess it is easy to explain why. If it takes only one punch to kill a NPC, then that means there is automatically less load on the processor. In IV, you could kick someone's ass and they mostly weren't dead. And doing the same with several dozens of NPCs sometimes resulted in a noticeably worse frame rate because them not being dead meant there was always a lot of AI to calculate. Even when it seemed like you just 'killed' them. But, as I said, they weren't really dead.

 

You may ask why they did have to downgrade the AI in that regard and for what. I would say the fact that there is more traffic on the streets than in IV is one of the most important factors. Plus there are also more NPCs on-screen, if I'm not mistaken, and it's the first GTA to have wildlife. There are possibly more factors but that are these are the most notable ones I could think of. You will also have noticed that the police is a lot harder in this game than in previous installments of the series. It isn't so easy to escape them and their cars are faster than yours even if you are in, say, a fully modded Adder. I don't think that is because the AI is so good. More like the opposite, actually. It's a simple solution and more realistic behaviour would most likely have required more CPU power. Which the PS3 and 360 lack.

 

I could go on and on. Many of the [subjectively] weaker points and flaws of the game are a result of console limitations. But not all of them. Rockstar did certainly well with the hardware that was available at the time. They can address said flaws in the next-gen versions because the PS4 and Xbone [and PC obviously] have much more power than their predecessors.

 

Don't get too excited, though. If I were you I would keep my expectations low and be pleasantly surprised by all the enhancements they will include in the new releases.

 

you made some great points, but I still feels cheated by R*. Let's talk about the artificial intellgience: you said police is stronger and people die in one punch to save data. It's perfectly uderstandable, but it's still crazy that R* choosed to add, for example, a vast (and empty) sea, or a totally unreachable land (like north yankton), or even the broken BAWSAQ system, rather than improve the AI. I don't know if they decided to do this on purpose ("let's cut the AI and add it later for nextgen") or if this was done just to cut some corners, but I think it's still stupid. You need to first improve the previous gameplay before adding new stuff, and not doing this is a "betrayal" for the player.

 

The things you mentioned take up storage, not CPU cycles like smarter AI would take up. Hardly a good comparison.

[Geralt of Rivia]

Rockstar is a company. A company does business. The main motive of business is PROFIT. The only thing businessmen care for is MONEY.

 

To those guys saying: 'R*'s ambition made GTA V possible on 8 year old consoles'.

 

I say: BULLsh*t.

 

It was R*'s greed for money that made it possible. For PROFITS.

 

That said, R* didn't betray LG owners. They CHEATED them and MILKED their money as one milks cows.

How did they cheat them? Explain that to me.

[GTA_REEFER]

Enchanted graphics alone, would make me buy this game again.

[thatstupidbug]

 

 

Rockstar did not betray anyone. I think they did well with GTAV considering that the PS3 and Xbox 360 are 8 and 9 years old respectively. On the other hand, console limitations are obviously not the explanation for all flaws the game has.

 

The lack of interiors is one of the things that many seem to complain about, and that's where technical limitations don't apply for instance. Let us say that each interior is uniquely textured and modelled then the disk space might be a limitation. But even then the notion that ancient hardware is the answer for the lack of interiors is rather ludicrous. So, in my view, this is a valid complaint.

 

It's a different story with the artificial intelligence (AI of NPCs and car drivers, amount of traffic rendered on-screen, police AI, et cetera). Any and all shortcomings can be blamed on the console hardware, especially in a demanding open world game. Let's use GTAV as a prime example. As you probably have noticed, it is often enough to punch a NPC only once to knock them out. Or maybe they are even dead, then. That wasn't so much the case in IV, and I guess it is easy to explain why. If it takes only one punch to kill a NPC, then that means there is automatically less load on the processor. In IV, you could kick someone's ass and they mostly weren't dead. And doing the same with several dozens of NPCs sometimes resulted in a noticeably worse frame rate because them not being dead meant there was always a lot of AI to calculate. Even when it seemed like you just 'killed' them. But, as I said, they weren't really dead.

 

You may ask why they did have to downgrade the AI in that regard and for what. I would say the fact that there is more traffic on the streets than in IV is one of the most important factors. Plus there are also more NPCs on-screen, if I'm not mistaken, and it's the first GTA to have wildlife. There are possibly more factors but that are these are the most notable ones I could think of. You will also have noticed that the police is a lot harder in this game than in previous installments of the series. It isn't so easy to escape them and their cars are faster than yours even if you are in, say, a fully modded Adder. I don't think that is because the AI is so good. More like the opposite, actually. It's a simple solution and more realistic behaviour would most likely have required more CPU power. Which the PS3 and 360 lack.

 

I could go on and on. Many of the [subjectively] weaker points and flaws of the game are a result of console limitations. But not all of them. Rockstar did certainly well with the hardware that was available at the time. They can address said flaws in the next-gen versions because the PS4 and Xbone [and PC obviously] have much more power than their predecessors.

 

Don't get too excited, though. If I were you I would keep my expectations low and be pleasantly surprised by all the enhancements they will include in the new releases.

 

you made some great points, but I still feels cheated by R*. Let's talk about the artificial intellgience: you said police is stronger and people die in one punch to save data. It's perfectly uderstandable, but it's still crazy that R* choosed to add, for example, a vast (and empty) sea, or a totally unreachable land (like north yankton), or even the broken BAWSAQ system, rather than improve the AI. I don't know if they decided to do this on purpose ("let's cut the AI and add it later for nextgen") or if this was done just to cut some corners, but I think it's still stupid. You need to first improve the previous gameplay before adding new stuff, and not doing this is a "betrayal" for the player.

 

The things you mentioned take up storage, not CPU cycles like smarter AI would take up. Hardly a good comparison.

 

 

mmmm, you got me, I need to do some revision of my (poorly) knoweledge what are things (beside NPC and cops and traffic) that takes up CPU space?

[Son of Zeus]

 

Rockstar is a company. A company does business. The main motive of business is PROFIT. The only thing businessmen care for is MONEY.

To those guys saying: 'R*'s ambition made GTA V possible on 8 year old consoles'.

I say: BULLsh*t.

It was R*'s greed for money that made it possible. For PROFITS.

That said, R* didn't betray LG owners. They CHEATED them and MILKED their money as one milks cows.

How did they cheat them? Explain that to me.

Read those complain threads. How those trailers were so different from the actual game and all that.

 

@Kamd: No offence man. It's just that when someone thanks you here it's usually sarcasm.

[Kamd]

 

 

Rockstar is a company. A company does business. The main motive of business is PROFIT. The only thing businessmen care for is MONEY.

To those guys saying: 'R*'s ambition made GTA V possible on 8 year old consoles'.

I say: BULLsh*t.

It was R*'s greed for money that made it possible. For PROFITS.

That said, R* didn't betray LG owners. They CHEATED them and MILKED their money as one milks cows.

How did they cheat them? Explain that to me.

Read those complain threads. How those trailers were so different from the actual game and all that.

 

@Kamd: No offence man. It's just that when someone thanks you here it's usually sarcasm.

 

Ok now you are officially on my respect list but the mount chilliard in sanfierro thing was kind of a dick move

[Len Lfc]

No. Don't be ridiculous!

[Kamd]

No. Don't be ridiculous!

I was going to make a joke but ah...forget it

[Geralt of Rivia]

I'd say that's misleading, not cheating, but it's still not good either way.

However, the newer trailers and gameplay videos were more reflective of actual quality than 2 year old screenshots.

Just my opinion, but it's like people saying they expected a long story when R* said it'd be comparable to RDR.

I could just be misremembering, though, so tell me if I am. It's been a while.

Going back on topic, LG people got the best version of GTA V that was available to them.

Edited September 24, 2014 by TheMasterfocker

[HartmannD]

Betrayed ?

WTH

 

The Game just $60 , it's not $6000

[Kamd]

Betrayed ?

WTH

 

The Game just $60 , it's not $6000

 

Read my original post or you are rich as f*ck

[Evan-KCR]

I don't think you were betrayed, no. Those pre-release screenshots were pretty f*cking misleading, though. Seriously, I swear some of them even look slightly better than the NG screenshots.

Must be the PC version.

[Kamd]

 

I don't think you were betrayed, no. Those pre-release screenshots were pretty f*cking misleading, though. Seriously, I swear some of them even look slightly better than the NG screenshots.

Must be the PC version.

 

Are you f*cking kidding? me pc version in 2015

Images 2012

[Trevorphilipjfry]

IM more annoyed about them not meeting their deadlines, and forever stalling heists, SP DLC, and many bug fixes.

 

I personally think its entirely okay for them to release a remastered version, I don't understand why anyone has a problem with it, and if I had enough money, Id get one, but at the moment Ill just have to wait and deal with it. I don't feel cheated or betray.

[Xerukal]

 

 

I don't think you were betrayed, no. Those pre-release screenshots were pretty f*cking misleading, though. Seriously, I swear some of them even look slightly better than the NG screenshots.

Must be the PC version.

 

Are you f*cking kidding? me pc version in 2015

Images 2012

 

Yep. Game's been in development for PC since at least July 2012. Most probably even before that.

 

(Source: https://googledrive.com/host/0B-JdId1SslCJNEIweDFobGl2MzA/builds.xml. CTRL + F and search "PC". You'll find various entries to PC features and issues, starting from 2012.)

 

Whether or not they were optimizing it since 2012 is questionable. They may have had it on hold while work was done on the Xbox One and Playstation 4 versions. But there's no way we can know.

 

The final product will tell us what we need to know in that respect, though.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Xerukal

[Kamd]

Yeah we wait and see

[PhillBellic]

 

Yep. Game's been in development for PC since at least July 2012. Most probably even before that.

 

(Source: https://googledrive.com/host/0B-JdId1SslCJNEIweDFobGl2MzA/builds.xml. CTRL + F and search "PC". You'll find various entries to PC features and issues, starting from 2012.)

 

Whether or not they were optimizing it since 2012 is questionable. They may have had it on hold while work was done on the Xbox One and Playstation 4 versions. But there's no way we can know.

 

The final product will tell us what we need to know in that respect, though.

 

Xerukal, are these build logs we have complete or are there earlier logs that have yet to be discovered? Where are the logs from 2009 through to 2011 for example?

 

Cheers.

[killahmatic]

I grew up in a time where the game you buy is the game you get. Its completed. You don't need to buy special editions, have phone apps, sign on to social clubs, or buy two versions of it to get everything. You paid what you paid and you got the full game, and back then, you paid a lot less for a full game. Now you pay a lot for something that is missing a lot of content.

 

 

R* could've told everyone before they bought the version for ps3/360 "hey, we're working on V for the next gen, and it will include new things that current gen users wont get", but they didn't.

Do I think R* betrayed us? Maybe, but its the way of the gaming industry now. The entire industry is now taking advantage of us. You saw how much R* made from V. There is no reason they need to make us spend more and more and more to get everything.

Edited September 24, 2014 by killahmatic

[Xerukal]

 

 

Yep. Game's been in development for PC since at least July 2012. Most probably even before that.

 

(Source: https://googledrive.com/host/0B-JdId1SslCJNEIweDFobGl2MzA/builds.xml. CTRL + F and search "PC". You'll find various entries to PC features and issues, starting from 2012.)

 

Whether or not they were optimizing it since 2012 is questionable. They may have had it on hold while work was done on the Xbox One and Playstation 4 versions. But there's no way we can know.

 

The final product will tell us what we need to know in that respect, though.

 

Xerukal, are these build logs we have complete or are there earlier logs that have yet to be discovered? Where are the logs from 2009 through to 2011 for example?

 

Cheers.

 

I'm not sure. It seems like they're complete. Since the base version was added in 2009. However, we only start to notice PC reports in 2012. That doesn't mean it wasn't in development well before then. Just that it wasn't logged and tested up until 2012.

 

Now I don't know if these things actually work this way, but if they do, this would be my guess.

[Ungreth]

Can anyone explain to me why higher traffic density would be considered a good thing?

[PhillBellic]

 

 

 

Yep. Game's been in development for PC since at least July 2012. Most probably even before that.

 

(Source: https://googledrive.com/host/0B-JdId1SslCJNEIweDFobGl2MzA/builds.xml. CTRL + F and search "PC". You'll find various entries to PC features and issues, starting from 2012.)

 

Whether or not they were optimizing it since 2012 is questionable. They may have had it on hold while work was done on the Xbox One and Playstation 4 versions. But there's no way we can know.

 

The final product will tell us what we need to know in that respect, though.

 

Xerukal, are these build logs we have complete or are there earlier logs that have yet to be discovered? Where are the logs from 2009 through to 2011 for example?

 

Cheers.

 

I'm not sure. It seems like they're complete. Since the base version was added in 2009. However, we only start to notice PC reports in 2012. That doesn't mean it wasn't in development well before then. Just that it wasn't logged and tested up until 2012.

 

Now I don't know if these things actually work this way, but if they do, this would be my guess.

 

Thank you for that info, Xerukal.

 

Cheers.

[TheTechPoTaToCHIP]

Nope, because if they didn't remaster the game on current gen. Then people would bitch and whine some more and make stupid petitions. Basically, with a fanbase this diverse and with the high standard Rockstar is known for, statistically, no matter what Rockstar does, people will ALWAYS find a way to complain about it.

[Kamd]

Can anyone explain to me why higher traffic density would be considered a good thing?

For some people Highways are way too deserted and there are no 3 day long traffic jams

[Staten]

Can anyone explain to me why higher traffic density would be considered a good thing?

For people who want to get immersed in the world, it's a good thing, but for people wanting to get from one place to another quickly, it might not be (it depends how they implement it).

[Xyn]

The Xbox release of GTA San Andreas 6 months after the PS2 release had more peds, custom radio station, better draw distance, better shadow/lighting, better audio...

 

yet i saw no one complain and use the stupid notion that R* betrayed PS2 fans or had delivered them a beta.

Tweens these days.

 

 

 

 

they're not sitting in their offices saying 'yes yesssss beautiful money'

That's exactly what they're doing. Sitting there drinking the hell out of the bloody whiskey and counting all the cash while laughing their ass off at all the people who can't upgrade. Dan Houser probably has a self-portrait of himself in his office and just looks at it all day admiring himself.

 

 

[Kamd]

The Xbox release of GTA San Andreas 6 months after the PS2 release had more peds, custom radio station, better draw distance, better shadow/lighting, better audio...

 

yet i saw no one complain and use the stupid notion that R* betrayed PS2 fans or had delivered them a beta.

Tweens these days.

 

 

 

 

they're not sitting in their offices saying 'yes yesssss beautiful money'

That's exactly what they're doing. Sitting there drinking the hell out of the bloody whiskey and counting all the cash while laughing their ass off at all the people who can't upgrade. Dan Houser probably has a self-portrait of himself in his office and just looks at it all day admiring himself.

 

 

Two things first its been 13 months 2 internet was much smaller and every body agreed with main stream media

[Xyn]

Two things first its been 13 months 2 internet was much smaller and every body agreed with main stream media

 

This has jacksh*t to do with what I posted...

And you posted 3 things, not 2.

 

Internet was smaller? hue, good one.

But for argument's sake, let's say you're right and it was smaller... it makes 0 sense for you to say the internet was smaller then immediately say everyone agreed with mainstream media.

(for the record, not everybody agreed, but people weren't ranting against everything like entitled prats today).

 

This isn't an opinions thread, this is just you trying to find people who aren't getting the game on November 18 because they either can't or won't & try to bash it.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Xyn

[Kamd]

 

Two things first its been 13 months 2 internet was much smaller and every body agreed with main stream media

This has jacksh*t to do with what I posted...

And you posted 3 things, not 2.

 

 

This isn't an opinions thread, this is just you trying to find people who aren't getting the game on November 18 because they either can't or won't & try to bash it.

 

Okay first It has to do f*cking c*nt sh*t with what you posted "The Xbox release of GTA San Andreas 6 months after the PS2 release had more peds, custom radio station, better draw distance, better shadow/lighting, better audio... [/size]

 

yet i saw no one complain and use the stupid notion that R* betrayed PS2 fans or had delivered them a beta."

Here you said that xbox release was better and no one complained

I said that the internet was much smaller that time

The forums were not very popular so no one complained

most of people follow mainstream media

And last you are just wrong here i was giving you a reasonable answers to what you stated or In other words telling you the flaws of your argument i never bashed on any one who are getting new version

Edited September 24, 2014 by Kamd

[Xyn]

Yeah...the train stops here.

If you can't even quote properly or emote basic orthography, I'm wasting my time.

 

Have fun finding people to circle-jerk.

[pilscy]

I wouldn't completely call it betrayal. Just Rockstar timing/ / Consoles Release timing and Rockstar Greed

 

1.You probably had a Last gen Console last year

2. When this game came out on Ps3/xbox360 ... rockstar at the time didn't mention anything about next gen being released anytime soon what else was you gon play it on? (what? you was gonna wait out time next gen? - its been a year and we still waiting til november brah)

3. Its like saying they said, We made a Bill Last year, Lets remaster the games and make double that because who doesn't want to see this game on steroids

 

I still got my 360 but I got a Xbox one too and I asked myself, when GTA5 is released on Next Gen will i touch my 360 again. will I go back to flat textures, 50% draw distances and unrealistic steak lol

 

Im one of the persons who always said this "limitation" crap is bullsh*t until I argued with someone and they explained and Then I got it. sometimes you could of heard a console fan from how hard its running to render the game. me memory does play a part

 

However Im still not condoning the lack of activities // crime mini games // properties // etc..