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Middle Eastern Conflict [General]


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13 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

 

I get it,

"Death to America!"

You guys hate America, etc etc...

 

I'm sorry your boyfriend Iraian Regime and Putin's Russia are crying, God Bless America though.

Calling the US a hypocrite for criticising other nation states for the exact same things the US does, does not equate to the moronic drivel you've posted here.

 

Educate yourself maybe?

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7 minutes ago, Pesos said:

Calling the US a hypocrite for criticising other nation states for the exact same things the US does, does not equate to the moronic drivel you've posted here.

 

Educate yourself maybe?

Ever heard of the Manhattan Project?

America should choose who gets nukes and who doesn't - it's their thing!

America beat the Nazis to it, didn't want anyone else to have it but Russia stole it and built a better bomb based on knowing America's errors in their trial and error approach and so Russia had the bomb which put pressure on American interest within range of Russia's bomb(s) so America begrudgingly allowed America's allies to have nukes to protect themselves from Russia who stole the bomb.

If you ask me, I don't even think Russia should have the bomb, so I'm not going to go around citing butt hole regime's rights to have the bomb; educate yourself.

Kids, always know what something is, never know why something is.

Edited by ilovebender.com
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4 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Ever heard of the Manhattan Project?

America should choose who gets nukes and who doesn't - it's their thing!

America beat the Nazis to it, didn't want anyone else to have it but Russia stole it and built a better bomb based on knowing America's errors in their trial and error approach and so Russia had the bomb which put pressure on American interest within range of Russia's bomb(s) so America begrudgingly allowed America's allies to have nukes to protect themselves from Russia who stole the bomb.

If you ask me, I don't even think Russia should have the bomb, so I'm not going to go around citing butt hole regime's rights to have the bomb; educate yourself.

Kids, always know what something is, never know why something is.

This post doesn't address the issue at all.

 

Would you like to try again?

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1 minute ago, Pesos said:

This post doesn't address the issue at all.

 

Would you like to try again?

How is it hypercritical for America to decide who does and doesn't get nukes?

It's their bomb.

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29 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

 

I get it,

"Death to America!"

You guys hate America, etc etc...

 

I'm sorry your boyfriend Iraian Regime and Putin's Russia are crying, God Bless America though.

Once again your complete inability to grasp nuance or the concept of analytical perspectives leads you to make simplistic, childish proclamations that do not contribute to the discussion at all. This is what prideful ignorance and lack of education gets you.

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19 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Ever heard of the Manhattan Project?

America should choose who gets nukes and who doesn't - it's their thing!

America beat the Nazis to it, didn't want anyone else to have it but Russia stole it and built a better bomb based on knowing America's errors in their trial and error approach and so Russia had the bomb which put pressure on American interest within range of Russia's bomb(s) so America begrudgingly allowed America's allies to have nukes to protect themselves from Russia who stole the bomb.

If you ask me, I don't even think Russia should have the bomb, so I'm not going to go around citing butt hole regime's rights to have the bomb; educate yourself.

Kids, always know what something is, never know why something is.

When Robert Oppenheimer, the team lead on the Manhattan Project turned to his fellow scientists and asked, 'my friends, what have we done,' do you think he was regretting building the bomb in the first place?  Let alone during his persecution during the 50's as a Commie for campaigning against his work and up to his death in 67 due to cancer brought on by radiation exposure, leaving the world with a TV interview haunted by the words, 'I have become death, the destroyer of worlds,' and, 'I wish I never built the damn things at all.  They shouldn't exist, they're too dangerous.' (I studied the Manhattan Project and it's effects on world politics and the scientific team behind it at university.  Every scientist involved hated what they made and they all considered the radiation exposure based cancers they all attained later in life as suitable punishment for their sins.)

 

No one should have the bomb, let alone a fat, orange sugar-daddy that houses a nuclear reactor in his basement just to power his sunbed.

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15 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

How is it hypercritical for America to decide who does and doesn't get nukes?

It's their bomb.

I'll spell it out for you; the issue is excessive military expenditure whilst ignoring the needs of the nation state's citizens.

 

You conflating weapons programs to mean nukes, and then attempting to focus primarily on that, doesn't address the issue.

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3 minutes ago, Pesos said:

I'll spell it out for you; the issue is excessive military expenditure whilst ignoring the needs of the nation state's citizens.

 

You conflating weapons programs to mean nukes, and then attempting to focus primarily to that, doesn't address the issue.

 

Weapons programs these days are more about conventional weapons and small arms.  Even arms developers struggle to find reasons to transport nukes / develop warheads.  The vast majority of work is state funded and considered negative in terms of publicity and cash generation, because nukes and WMD's as a whole are too just destructive and indiscriminate to ever warrant their deployment.

Having them because the enemy has them is the deterrent now.  It won't be a nation state that deploys them, it's more likely a third party will use them first and that's what is the scariest thing about them.

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1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

I get it,

"Death to America!"

God you're a moron. 

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

America should choose who gets nukes and who doesn't

Let's ignore the fact that Russia, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea and France have all independently developed nuclear weapons without the assistance of the US (unless you call espionage assistance at least).

 

1 hour ago, ilovebender.com said:

It's their bomb.

They may have been the first to build one, but they're far from the only nation involved in the development of nuclear weapons. In fact the originator of the theory on which nuclear weapons are based is a Hungarian-German-American.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

They may have been the first to build one, but they're far from the only nation involved in the development of nuclear weapons. In fact the originator of the theory on which nuclear weapons are based is a Hungarian-German-American.

Let's also not forget the fact U-234, which surrendered to the Americans in May 1945, and U-864, which was sunk in the North Sea in the first confirmed case of a submarine to submarine torpedo kill (and has leaked radioactive heavy-water ever since into the North Sea), are proof the Germans were well on their way to developing their own nuclear bombs and the two subs were trying to reach Japan after the fall of Europe became inevitable.

 

Estimates are the Germans were 75% completed with their bomb work, so they would probably have got to the final product with another six months of work.  They were not far behind the Manhattan Project team.

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Triple Vacuum Seal
4 hours ago, sivispacem said:

...their tactical/theatre ballistic missile capability...

 

...Dozens of separate strikes by Houthi rebels overseen by IRGC commanders have seen literally thousands of Saudi forces killed, mostly through highly accurate strikes against military bases using highly manoeuvrable launchers...

 

...Iran also possesses sophisticated Russian and Chinese made anti-ship missiles and has its own domestic production of the Noor and Qader (copies of the C-802) which is capable of sinking destroyer-sized vessels from about 300km away. The Qader launchers are specifically built on civilian truck chassis to allow them resilience against attacks in military infrastructure. It was an Iranian C-802 copy, fired by Hezbollah forces, which nearly sunk the INS Hanit off the coast of Lebanon in 2006, and another fired by Houthi forces which crippled the HSV-2 Swift off the coast of Yemen in 2016...

 

This is typically downplayed if not ignored altogether in US corporate media outlets.  The IRGC can launch so many of those damned things at once, that it'll overwhelm the sensors of US missile defense systems. AFAIK, this puts the kibosh on any sane plan for an open military confrontation with Iran.  As for a ground invasion deep into Iranian territory...total jerkoff fantasy for reactionary Clash of Civilization dorks. 

 

Extensive tunnel networks aside, Iran is probably uninvadable.  Perhaps as insane as invading Switzerland or the US itself.  Not to mention the fact that Iran's population wouldn't simply stop fighting an invading force just because of some US-imposed regime collapse.  Their population's sense of national identity predates Islam. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Let's also not forget the fact U-234, which surrendered to the Americans in May 1945, and U-864, which was sunk in the North Sea in the first confirmed case of a submarine to submarine torpedo kill (and has leaked radioactive heavy-water ever since into the North Sea), are proof the Germans were well on their way to developing their own nuclear bombs and the two subs were trying to reach Japan after the fall of Europe became inevitable.

 

Estimates are the Germans were 75% completed with their bomb work, so they would probably have got to the final product with another six months of work.  They were not far behind the Manhattan Project team.

So?

 

Germany aren't getting credit for the bomb otherwise Germany would have nukes.

 

People, we all know America gets final say on who has nukes for a reason.

3 hours ago, sivispacem said:

 

 

They may have been the first to build one, but they're far from the only nation involved in the development of nuclear weapons. In fact the originator of the theory on which nuclear weapons are based is a Hungarian-German-American.

 

 

We're not counting anyone who isn't the United States, we're not morons.

4 hours ago, sivispacem said:

 

 

Let's ignore the fact that Russia, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea and France have all independently developed nuclear weapons without the assistance of the US (unless you call espionage assistance at least).

Who said Russia could have the bomb?! 

They stole it! Russia stole it.

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Didn't the German scientists the Russian captured build the bomb for Russia?  You know, like how the US got the bomb.  I guess Russia stole the idea of having German scientists building your bomb.

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11 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

So?

 

Germany aren't getting credit for the bomb otherwise Germany would have nukes.

 

People, we all know America gets final say on who has nukes for a reason.

 

Which is why the UN holds the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.  It's not the US who has a say alone, it's the fecking UN!

 

Quote

We're not counting anyone who isn't the United States, we're not morons.

 

Looked in a mirror recently?  A moron is looking right back at you.

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6 minutes ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

 

Which is why the UN holds the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.  It's not the US who has a say alone, it's the fecking UN!

Well that's dumb.

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2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well that's dumb.

No better riposte for being proved wrong, yet again?

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58 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

we're not morons.

I mean, you kind of are.

 

58 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

They stole it! Russia stole it.

Espionage in the Manhattan Project certainly helped, but so what? Half of the nuclear powers independently developed their nuclear deterrents- including the UK as we were denied access to any of the data we'd spent the last few years working on thanks to the Atomic Energy Act.

 

40 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well that's dumb.

Takes one to know one, I suppose.

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1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

 

 

Takes one to know one, I suppose.

Says someone who thinks Germany invented the bomb, and that the UK shouldn't leave the EU because that would mean being out of the EU since the EU is God's gift.

 

America acted within international law to protect itself.

Anyone who disputes probably thinks Iran have a right to govern Iraq or something. IDK, a lot of PC Babies seem to be rooting for the enemy these days; Pro EU, anti USA, pro Iran, anti USA.

 

Where do people get the nerve to ignore facts and history and cite America is evil?

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7 hours ago, Uncle Sikee Atric said:

Let's also not forget the fact U-234, which surrendered to the Americans in May 1945, and U-864, which was sunk in the North Sea in the first confirmed case of a submarine to submarine torpedo kill (and has leaked radioactive heavy-water ever since into the North Sea), are proof the Germans were well on their way to developing their own nuclear bombs and the two subs were trying to reach Japan after the fall of Europe became inevitable.

 

Estimates are the Germans were 75% completed with their bomb work, so they would probably have got to the final product with another six months of work.  They were not far behind the Manhattan Project team.

That's dumb.

 

You blatantly ignore who made the first bomb without almost killing themselves because your best friends were almost there despite them almost making a crater out of Berlin.

 

 

Everybody, shut the Hell up.

 

 

If you hate America, that's on you, but get this Anti American trying to an alternate reality where who came 2nd came 1st or where good is bad and freedom is oppression nonsense and put it in a can and toss that can in the recycling.

No one cares if you hate America, chances are you're from a sh*t hole if you hate America.

 

 

This Iranian butt hole is dead and it's lucky his funeral wasn't droned, f*ck him right.

Good riddance and I'm sorry no one killed him sooner. 

Edited by ilovebender.com
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39 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

That's dumb.

 

You blatantly ignore who made the first bomb without almost killing themselves because your best friends were almost there despite them almost making a crater out of Berlin.

 

 

The German bomb work was conducted in the Austrian Alps, in a series of caves networks the Germans partly built, and partly were natural formations.  The entire area was a network of facilites and factories, churning out munitions and it also held numerous test labs, including the rocketry lab tests for the V1 and V2.

 

I said the Germans got close, but they were always behind Los Alamos, partly due to scarse resources hampering their research.  Both teams started at roughly the same time, late 40 / early 41.

 

39 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Everybody, shut the Hell up.

 

Why, because we keep proving you are wrong and you hate that?

 

 

Quote

If you hate America, that's on you, but get this Anti American trying to an alternate reality where who came 2nd came 1st or where good is bad and freedom is oppression nonsense and put it in a can and toss that can in the recycling.

No one cares if you hate America, chances are you're from a sh*t hole if you hate America.

 

I keep reminding you, I'm from the UK and that's not a sh*thole in your world.

 

Hating America as a whole isn't the same as hating the American political system.

 

Quote

This Iranian butt hole is dead and it's lucky his funeral wasn't droned, f*ck him right.

Good riddance and I'm sorry no one killed him sooner. 

 

I assume innocent civilians are free targets in the US?  I guess that explains the sheer number of shootings in public US locations.

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55 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

America acted within international law to protect itself.

In order to even to begin to entertain the notion of self-defence in jus ad bellum there must be an armed attack that is ongoing or imminent. The only problem with that is that in this instance is there was no ongoing/imminent armed attack to speak of. This was an assassination, a retaliatory strike which can never be self-defence under international law. 

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1 hour ago, Raavi said:

In order to even to begin to entertain the notion of self-defence in jus ad bellum there must be an armed attack that is ongoing or imminent. The only problem with that is that in this instance is there was no ongoing/imminent armed attack to speak of. This was an assassination, a retaliatory strike which can never be self-defence under international law. 

It was justified.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

-vid-

 

It was justified.

 

Good job once again completely failing to address the rebuttal point. The US sec of state defending his own administration's decision != substantive proof of compliance with international law.

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9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Says someone who thinks Germany invented the bomb

Try reading, dipsh*t.

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

America acted within international law to protect itself.

The burden of proof required to justify preemptive military action is pretty high, whereas according to US intelligence sources familiar with the briefings there was effectively no evidence of an impending, imminent attack.

 

So no, it categorically didn't.

 

9 hours ago, ilovebender.com said:

Everybody, shut the Hell up.

"Everyone shut up, you're making me feel stupid"

 

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen you muppet.

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5 hours ago, sivispacem said:

 

 

The burden of proof required to justify preemptive military action is pretty high, whereas according to US intelligence sources familiar with the briefings there was effectively no evidence of an impending, imminent attack.

 

 

Jesus, you just don't like America do you?

Even I saw that American embassy attack in Iraq, and that was public domain, think of all the things that the intelligence community knew.

 

Of course you're a contrarian - so in your mind, if America have proof, then obviously they're lying.

 

What have America ever done to you? Except offer talks with UK a post Brexit trade deal thus ridding us of the EU and blow up an Iranian arse hole you seem to love so much?

 

You just don't like that America acted within international law and took Iran down a peg.

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26 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Jesus, you just don't like America do you?

I've been broadly positive towards R2P and interventionism albeit critical if how it's been handled. The assertion that evidence justifying the stroke was "threadbare" is not my words, it's those of members of the US intelligence community. I'm not actually that critical of targeted assassinations in principal; I've defended (though with caveats) both drone strikes and things like the Phoenix Program in the past.

 

Unlike you, I'm educated and informed enough to draw distinctions between justified preemptive military action and conducting assassinations. I'm also capable of expressing views with more nuance than "you're critical of unjustified assassination, you must HATE AMERICA". But perhaps I'm expecting too much coherence from someone with an IQ scarcely exceeding that of a grapefruit.

 

27 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Even I saw that American embassy attack in Iraq

If you knew the first thing about either international law or recent events in Iraq and Iran, you'd know that this is basically an irrelevance. The fact that Trump had actively threatened to attack cultural sites, which would be a war crime, in response to any Iranian retaliation shows the regime isn't the least bit concerned with abiding by the norms of international law.

 

30 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

What have America ever done to you? 

What has Qasem Soleimani ever done to you, specifically?

 

31 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

an Iranian arse hole you seem to love so much?

You're pathetic.

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16 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

You just don't like that America acted within international law

They did not. As I already laid out to you this does not even begin to qualify for self-defence under art. 51 of the UN Charter. And as Sivis explained to you it does not meet the burden of proof for preemptive self-defence. Moreover it also categorically fails the Caroline test; the customary law threshold that has been widely used to assess claims of anticipatory self-defence: There was no "instant and overwhelming threat" and there WERE other choice of means like economic sanctions or capture. So it completely falls flat on necessity. All this is not even going into the whole affront on Iraqi sovereignty and the likely contravention of the VCDR which present multiple violations of international law by themselves.

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4 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

 

 

What has Qasem Soleimani ever done to you, specifically?

 

 

Anything he's done against British interest, I'm counting, and since I heard he was behind that hijacking of a British flagged ship in that region in 2019, I'd say that.

Image result for british ship seized iran

I'd say send in the SAS for that lol.

 

 

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1 minute ago, ilovebender.com said:

Anything he's done against British interest, I'm counting, and since I heard he was behind that hijacking of a British registered ship in that region in 2019, I'd say that.

 

The key word there is 'heard.'  From whom?

I'm guessing it's just another example of hearsay and 'dodgy-dossiers.'  Anything circumstantial will do, eh?

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