Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. GTANet.com

    2. GTANet 20th Anniversary

    1. GTA Online

      1. The Cayo Perico Heist
      2. Find Lobbies & Players
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Vehicles
      5. Content Creator
      6. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Frontier Pursuits
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    3. Crews

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Redemption

    1. Grand Theft Auto Series

      1. St. Andrews Cathedral
    2. GTA VI

    3. GTA V

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    4. GTA IV

      1. The Lost and Damned
      2. The Ballad of Gay Tony
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
    5. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    6. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    7. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    8. Portable Games

      1. GTA Chinatown Wars
      2. GTA Vice City Stories
      3. GTA Liberty City Stories
    9. Top-Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    1. GTA Mods

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Red Dead Mods

      1. Documentation
    3. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    4. Featured Mods

      1. Design Your Own Mission
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Rockstar Games

    2. Rockstar Collectors

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Movies & TV
      5. Music
      6. Sports
      7. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. Announcements

    2. Support

      1. Court House
    3. Suggestions

Middle Eastern Conflict [General]


Recommended Posts

On 6/2/2019 at 10:13 AM, Tchuck said:

Any war against Iran is fated to become a disaster.

Does that imply that Iran can virtually do as it pleases and that the surrounding nations and the rest of the world would be powerless to do anything about it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Short Stay said:

Does that imply that Iran can virtually do as it pleases and that the surrounding nations and the rest of the world would be powerless to do anything about it?

No? I'm just stating the obvious. Trump wants to go to war with Iran. Which would be a disaster, worse than what the Iraq war was.

 

But as for "virtually doing as it pleases", if Saudi Arabia can do it, then sure as sh*t Iran should do it too.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, Saudi Arabia isn't conducting covert military strikes on regional adversaries' critical national infrastructure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They're directly involved in a conflict in Yemen, though, at least in part at the behest of the Yemeni government. It's fair to question their conduct in that conflict because, let's be fair, it's pretty terrible.

 

Not to excuse Saudi Arabia's generally pretty atrocious behaviour, but they're only conducting military activity in line with the legitimate requests of other states. They're not launching cruise missiles at regional neighbours' oil platforms.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sivispacem said:

Not to excuse Saudi Arabia's generally pretty atrocious behaviour

This is pretty much exactly what you're doing. The fact that they are supported by the world's richest and most powerful states doesn't excuse their wanton terror and repression. What it does do is incriminate the powerful states supporting the Saudi's. Then again if there is a region in the world where support for totalitarian regimes might be pragmatically justified it is the Middle East.

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

This is pretty much exactly what you're doing. 

It's really not. No part of highlighting the truly exceptional, in the scheme of recent regional events, kinetic attacks against Saudi oil facilities excuses behaviour like the cluster bombing of civilians. In normal times attacks like these would be acts of war not especially dissimilar to the notion of a direct US attack and n Soviet infrastructure during the Cold War.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

I mean, I'm sure Saudi Arabia is doing some bad stuff. It is a bad neighborhood, but if you look at what Assad gets up to on a regular basis I don't think its half as bad. There's this great documentary called The White Helmets on Netflix I suggest people watch, and another called Last Men in Aleppo. The violence that goes on there is just screwed up and Assad is spearpointing that. A lot of people focus on the bigger issues but there's so much worse happening under the covers...

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, eyeballs said:

I'm sure Saudi Arabia is doing some bad stuff.

Yeah, bad like crucifying and beheading political prisoners, including those arrested as children.

 

Quote

The unelected government of a close ally of the United States is planning on brutally executing an 18-year-old member of a minority group, for crimes allegedly committed when he was 10 years old.

Soo, that's pretty bad. Then there's the whole throwing missiles at school buses and civilian population in their neighbours on a frequent basis.

 

The fact that another horrible regime does bad things is irrelevant: the relevant bit is that Saudi Arabia does just as horrible things as others, yet their main allies, the US, just let it happen without any issues. Assad? He got his country bombed/invaded under the guise of bringing freedom and whatnot. So did Saddam. So did Gaddafi. But the Saudis have been doing it for just as long, sh*t including funding the biggest terrorist attack on US soil in recorded history, but hey it's just business.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Donald Trump with the US Government has given the green light for Turkey to invade Northern Syria and Erdogan commence his ethnic reshuffle boogaloo, completely undermining the agreement the US made to keep up security in the area if the Kurds dismantle their defences. Not at all shocking given the US track record in betraying their allies or how they deal foreign policy, still very ugly though.

 

Given Turkeys role in aiding IS militants it’s no stretch that this has the fuel to accelerate an ISIS on the resurgence. There’s no way Turkey will do anything to secure the already crappy Kurdish controlled ISIS prison camps which the SDF couldn't facilitate. That’s tens of thousands of men and women ready to continue their jihad and stage a landgrab.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the one hand, the writing had been on the wall for years; between Syria and Turkey, sooner or later US forces were going to leave the Kurds behind. But what's particularly troubling about this is the way in which it was done; Trump deciding to suddenly remove forces after a phone call with Erdogan makes for some damning optics regarding the situation, regardless of anyone's intentions. Especially since Kurdish forces had already been moving military hardware away from the Turkish border for a couple of weeks before this happened (at the behest of the US), it likely seems to some like lambs being prepared for the slaughter. Hardly a ringing endorsement to US allies abroad, or for any future arrangements with Kurdish militias for years to come. Regardless of how anyone feels about US involvement in MENA, a grand exit strategy this ain't.

 

Though I'm not sure about ISIS-Turkey relations. I would think that an ISIS resurgence would be due more to the SDF/YPG's lack of available resources while they fight the Turkish army to the north. Then again, maybe Turkey would gladly look the other way while ISIS continues to destabilize their neighbors to the south.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This will be the end of Rojava, which is an utter travesty. Absolutely despicable what the US and Turkey are doing. We're about to witness a slaughter of the Kurds.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

From a Turkish perspective, they're attacking a group (the YPG) which is (depending on who you believe) either an affiliate of, or another branch of, the terrorist group who has been bombing and killing military personnel and civilians inside Turkey for decades (the PKK). So naturally, they cast it as an operation to protect their borders and preserve their national security. Though what's also true is that modern Turkey has a history of repressing Kurdish culture, language, and their communities within Turkey, and while that might have subsided in recent years (fact check pls), their actions against Kurdish forces in Syria/Iraq as they fought ISIS probably are what prompted the latest Turkey-PKK ceasefire to fall apart a few years back.

 

Granted, I'm not particularly well-read on any atrocities committed by either side to fuel the latest chapter in this conflict, but I did think it's worth mentioning.

 

In any case, it seems likely Turkey intends to occupy Rojava and re-house the area with their stock of Syrian refugees, surely to dilute the Kurdish demographics in the region for their own benefit. The long-term strategy they have with Syria on this topic is unclear to me, at the moment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish things went different,but right now it seems that Kurds don't have much chance to stop Turks,or to slow them down. But it will be remembered,and probably return to Turkey in the future.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bartleby said:

Though I'm not sure about ISIS-Turkey relations. I would think that an ISIS resurgence would be due more to the SDF/YPG's lack of available resources while they fight the Turkish army to the north. Then again, maybe Turkey would gladly look the other way while ISIS continues to destabilize their neighbors to the south.

Lack of manpower will be a cause, definitely. There's already been reported breakouts from the ISIS women in Al-Hawl prison camp, it's hard to completely trust the veracity of these claims without photographic evidence, it's possible this is a case of the SDF manipulating what has happened and doing a, "we told you so", but the camp has already been a huge red flag with poor infrastructure, over population and really aggro ISIS women gathering, plotting and even murdering refugees/children.

 

Donald Trump outsourcing regional security to Turkey is a very daft move after Turkey's complete no show in the coalition against ISIS, and when Turkey does need a proxy to ISIS they hire mercenaries (twitter video link) who are motivated in the same way Jihadis are, usually through religious and ethnic rivalry, which is troubling for Syria's Christian population.

This piece is very convincing regarding Turkey's action or inaction with IS: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/12/turkeys-double-isis-standard/ 

I think every state and non-state actor in the surrounding region has accused Turkey of involvement with IS, which can make bias choppy, but even the Turkish paper, Burgun ran an investigative piece and was promptly raided and later shut down while prosecutors involved in the case were indicted with treason.

Here's an article detailing the weapon materials transfer and government raids: https://web.archive.org/web/20151127093851/http://www.todayszaman.com/_raid-on-koza-i-pek-media-group-comes-after-reports-on-transfer-of-weapons-to-isil_397966.html

 

3 hours ago, Bartleby said:

In any case, it seems likely Turkey intends to occupy Rojava and re-house the area with their stock of Syrian refugees, surely to dilute the Kurdish demographics in the region for their own benefit. 

Yep, it's your standard issue ethnic cleansing pure and simple. 

 

Quote

 

The long-term strategy they have with Syria on this topic is unclear to me, at the moment.

 

Idk but judging Turk-nats online and how much Erdogan underperformed in this years municipal elections it wouldn't shock me if a lot of his foreign policy was domestic policy.

 

As you said, I haven't really been following well either until this latest move. 

I find Trump dogging pretty boring but this is the lovechild plan of Kissinger and Chaney except with his clear profit margin boomerism without any thoughts of the perpetual consequences this will have in the region. Ironically Trump himself said Turkey are aiding IS but hands over the mission to end IS to Turkey.

 

The SDF/YPG/and their internal security forces will have Turkey and it's jihadi proxies in the North, Assad regime to the South and city based IS sleeper cells and it's mobilising force to contend. Rojava looked like a really good thing but I don't think it can last.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, Turkey and Iran appear to enjoy a warm relationship, Turkey and Saudi Arabia not so hot. The Turkish-Syrian relationship has been strained by the civil war but this is but a mere blip in long-term relationshipige. Despite Turkey being Sunni and Iran Shia, Turkey will I think throw its hand in with Iran in the long-term. After all, if Iraq were to lose its Iranian influence, that would only bring Turkey's Saudi problem right up to its border.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Well, after years of disgusting atrocities, it looks as if al Baghadid, the leader of ISIS, has been killed:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/27/us-reportedly-carries-out-operation-against-isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi

Of course, this will probably not stop the group, but one hopes it may bring some small level of closure to his numerous victims.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn't the first time his death has been reported.  So I'll hold out until we get some proper confirmation on those reports.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/18/2019 at 11:52 AM, sivispacem said:

To be fair, Saudi Arabia isn't conducting covert military strikes on regional adversaries' critical national infrastructure.

Do you work for a D.C. think tank?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump said he watched the operation from the White House Situation room as it played out live “as though you were watching a movie.” He suggested he may order the release of the video so that the world knows al-Baghdadi did not die of a hero and spent his final moments “crying, “whimpering” and “screaming.”

LOL!

 

If the news is true, this might be the only time I ever liked one of Trump's speeches. Not because it was clever or well written, it's not. It's f*ckin' awful as speeches go. But it's necessary. It will hopefully enrage enough ISIS lunatics to make them crawl out of their holes as easy targets.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rtie said:

Do you work for a D.C. think tank?

As a statement, it's factually correct. What Iran has been doing against SA and in the wider Strait of Hormuz is pretty staggering in the wider context of international relations, and in no way analogous to anything Saudi Arabia has been doing in that specific respect. It's not supposed to be read as a value judgement.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Well, some potentially very worrying news. America has killed Iranian general Qassem Suleimani via a drone strike in Iraq:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/03/baghdad-airport-iraq-attack-deaths-iran-us-tensions

Whilst Trump has played games of chicken with North Korea and Venezuela, before ultimately choosing not to escalate things into armed conflict, Suleimani was apparently something of a hero in Iran, and held responsible for helping to defeat ISIS in the region, so the fear is that this entire situation could soon spiral out of control.

Link to post
Share on other sites

f*ck Qassem Suleimani, I'm glad Iran's 2nd in command was killed in Baghdad, Iraq.

I don't even care if America used the attack on their embassy as a justification to this; they were provoked, so reacted. Iran promises to retaliate; it's not America Vs. Iran, it's Iran Vs. the World, for the past 40 years.

How many people have fled Iran to flee persecution? How many Brits/Americans/Australians etc are in prison in Iran on trumped up charges of being spies?

f*ck the regime in Iran; if they wish to disrupt the region, f*ck 'em. 

Edited by ilovebender.com
Link to post
Share on other sites

Screenshot_20200103-053409.jpg

 

Screenshot_20200103-053451.jpg

 

Screenshot_20200103-053529.jpg

 

Screenshot_20200103-053656.jpg

 

4 examples of Tweets that haven't aged well.

 

That's all this is about.  Trump wants a quick and easy win war that'll boost his popularity ahead of the election later this year.  It's a shame Iran isn't that sort of opponent, they'll fight to the last man and ensure lots of US troops are sent home in coffins, that'll really boost his ratings.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember when Trump repeatedly criticised Obama over a period of a year for even considering possible action toward Iran? Pepperidge farm remembers.

 

edit: beaten to the punch by Uncle Sikee

Edited by Pesos
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

f*ck Qassem Suleimani, I'm glad Iran's 2nd in command was killed in Baghdad, Iraq.

I don't even care if America used the attack on their embassy as a justification to this; they were provoked, so reacted. Iran promises to retaliate; it's not America Vs. Iran, it's Iran Vs. the World, for the past 40 years.

How many people have fled Iran to flee persecution? How many Brits/Americans/Australians etc are in prison in Iran on trumped up charges of being spies?

f*ck the regime in Iran; if they wish to disrupt the region, f*ck 'em. 

Be careful. Don't be so quick to wish for war. Remember, even the worst regime is still full of perfectly normal, innocent people with lives as worthwhile as your own. And they are the ones who will suffer from any war, all for things they are not responsible for whatsoever.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.