Middle Eastern Conflict [General]

[Sasuke Uzumaki]

Here's what GunWrath was talking about.

[make total destroy]

That was posted like, 2 pages ago.

[ribon]

Ok, things look pretty F* up in the middle east right now. What about your home cities / capitals? Any reports of these freaks causing havoc or having testosterone problems, or are they still just recruiting people who are stupid enough to go fight down there?

Edited October 19, 2014 by ribon

[Sasuke Uzumaki]

Didn't see that it was already posted, thanks for clearing that up.

[Melech]

I have seen this sick IS video called "The End of Sykes Picot". On it these terrorist scumbags proudly show the broken border between Iraq and Syria. They also show Iraqi prisoners.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i357G1HuFcI

 

I don't know why this stills be on YouTube. I think it should be removed.

 

For those wondering what the title of the video means, it's a reference to the Asia Minor Agreement (1916), in which Britain and France divided the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire into areas of future British and French control. This agreement was negotiated by French diplomat François Georges-Picot and Briton Mark Sykes.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Palikari

[K^2]

and a EA-6B Prowler prepare to launch

They are still flying these ancient things? Well, I guess they aren't worried about any AA from ISIS.

 

Good pictures, by the way.

[Melech]

They are still flying these ancient things?

 

That's what happens when you make cuts on the military. Then, there's no money for new jets.

 

[Eutyphro]

I read where some Dutch bikers joined up with the Kurds to fight against ISIS and seen some photos. Pretty cool.

 

They should make the next GTA about that. GTA Lost in the Islamic State and Damned. Nah, that doesn't sound right.... Would be cool tho.

[I cucked Alex Jones]

 

They are still flying these ancient things?

 

That's what happens when you make cuts on the military. Then, there's no money for new jets.

 

 

Never miss an opportunity to push your political agenda, do you?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Nipperkins

[K^2]

 

They are still flying these ancient things?

That's what happens when you make cuts on the military. Then, there's no money for new jets.

 

I'm particularly pissed at the end of F-22 production. But it's bullsh*t either way. With or without cuts, there is more than enough money spent on USAF to keep hardware current. It's all that bureaucratic black holes that suck the budget dry. That's what we need to be cutting. And not just in the military, by the way.

 

Still, these things are ancient. If I was asked to fly something that out of date, I think I'd prefer a Fantom. Yes, it's even more out of date, but at least you'd be flying with style. I don't know what the designers of Prowler were drinking.

[Melech]

They should make the next GTA about that. GTA Lost in the Islamic State and Damned. Nah, that doesn't sound right.... Would be cool tho.

 

Mmm... I'd love to see Trevor Philips treading on the head of an IS terrorist, just like he did with Johnny's.

 

Never miss an opportunity to push your political agenda, do you?

 

I'm not pushing any agenda, and I don't want to.

 

The US has made cuts on the military. Yes, and? I'm not saying Obama is right or wrong, or if to make this cuts was right or wrong.

 

I just posted the cartoon to have a laugh. Don't you have sense of humor?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Palikari

[Doc Rikowski]

Sykes Picot is partially the origin of this mess. It needs to be updated to 21st century.

[Mr. House]

 

They should make the next GTA about that. GTA Lost in the Islamic State and Damned. Nah, that doesn't sound right.... Would be cool tho.

 

Mmm... I'd love to see Trevor Philips treading on the head of an IS terrorist, just like he did with Johnny's.

 

Never miss an opportunity to push your political agenda, do you?

 

I'm not pushing any agenda, and I don't want to.

 

The US has made cuts on the military. Yes, and? I'm not saying Obama is right or wrong, or if to make this cuts was right or wrong.

 

I just posted the cartoon to have a laugh. Don't you have sense of humor?

 

The problem is that not a single one of the political cartoons you post are remotely funny, yet you never relent.

 

Sykes Picot is partially the origin of this mess. It needs to be updated to 21st century.

The Sykes Picot borders were terrible in the first place. Literally white men drawing lines in the sand. I doubt there will be a political solution to the borders any time soon.

[Melech]

Sykes Picot is partially the origin of this mess. It needs to be updated to 21st century.

 

Obviously, the Sykes-Picot Agreement was not OK, but... Are you saying that it's "partially" the origin of all conflicts in the Middle East, including radical Islamism, terror and the Islamic State?

 

Sectarianism and radical Islamism are the main origin of conflicts in the Middle East, not politics. You can't understand the Middle East without religion, as Arab/Islamic societies are VERY religious. Religion is what drives their lives. Religion is the most important issue.

 

The problem is that not a single one of the political cartoons you post are remotely funny, yet you never relent.

 

You don't have sense of humor. That's OK, don't laugh then.

 

PS: If you want to talk about the cartoons and humor, take it to PM. This topic is about the Islamic State.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Palikari

[Mr. House]

Sectarianism and radical Islamism are the main origin of conflicts in the Middle East, not politics. You can't understand the Middle East without religion, as Arab/Islamic societies are VERY religious. Religion is what drives their lives. Religion is the most importan issue.

Lol it is literally the opposite. Religious fundamentalism is a symptom not a cause.

[Eutyphro]

Sectarianism and radical Islamism are the main origin of conflicts in the Middle East, not politics. You can't understand the Middle East without religion, as Arab/Islamic societies are VERY religious. Religion is what drives their lives. Religion is the most importan issue.

 

There's a reason why people in lets say western Europe generally don't believe in the moral teachings of the old testament anymore, and why we don't live in tribes/sects anymore, it is because we have advanced and free societies with high standards of living, the type of societies that countries in the Middle East are prevented from having by outside influences/forces.

 

Take lets say Iran. Iran was a parliamentary democracy in the early 1950's and was secular. Then the CIA installed a very suppressive dictator because they wanted to prevent Iran from nationalizing oil profits. This eventually caused a radical Islamic revolution in 1979 and now it is an Islamic fundamentalist state. There's a long history of outside forces backing and installing authoritarian regimes in countries in the Middle East, and the only ones brave enough to fight those regimes are Islamic fundamentalists.

 

The biggest source of funding for worlwide jihadism in general and ISIS specifically is coming from oil rich NATO allies like Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc.. It is also well known that the Iraq war has greatly increased the worlwide terrorist threat. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ei=5094&en=22b7a0941b08007f Before the Iraq war there was no jihadism in Iraq. Look at Iraq now. It's ironic the Iraq war is named 'the war on terror' by US propaganda considering the insane amount of terror it has caused.

Edited October 20, 2014 by gtaxpert

[Docfaustino]

Things that should be heckled more

-The Sykes Picot agreement

-The Durand Line (relevant in a Sykes Picot discussion)

-Media doing more harm than good in the name of ratings

-Using James Foley execution footage in American tcampaign ads (this is happening)

[KarbzKartel]

I'm not too sure about America, but here in the UK, their recruiting vulnerable people here to join the IS over social media and through 'other' forms, surprisingly, a lot have bought tickets and flown into the middle east. What I hate is that in the news, they have articles of them 'wanting to come home' because it 'wasn't for them' to be honest, I consider that treason, if you were to fly over into another country just to commit terrorist acts against your own country, then surely that is treason. A jail sentence wouldn't be enough. Though knowing our government, they'd get a slap on the wrist and a free house.

[Greenline]

 

Sectarianism and radical Islamism are the main origin of conflicts in the Middle East, not politics. You can't understand the Middle East without religion, as Arab/Islamic societies are VERY religious. Religion is what drives their lives. Religion is the most importan issue.

Lol it is literally the opposite. Religious fundamentalism is a symptom not a cause.

 

This is very true. I would speak of my native Iran and how cold war meddling basically bred the current Islamic radicals in power but I'll steer clear from that issue.

 

This will be regarded as a) a major oversimplification of matters or b) a blatant disregard for human lives and suffering, but I believe ISIS -- or rather, the redrawing of the colonial borders of the former Ottoman Empire -- is the key to long-term piece in the region. Only with the collapse of states like Iraq and Syria, and the reassembling of its people in organic states, based on ethnicity and religion, rather than arbitrary lines in the sand will there be peace in that region of the Middle East.

 

It definitely won't be pretty for the people, it won't be pretty for the West, or for Iran, but it will be great for the future.

 

 

 

Sectarianism and radical Islamism are the main origin of conflicts in the Middle East, not politics.

 

This is either a strange joke, trolling or an islamophobic agenda being pushed to the max. Also the conservative "satirical" comics which don't even have any readership among the most misinformed geriatrics of Southern Florida are to be posted by lil_weasel and lil_weasel only.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Greenline

[K^2]

This will be regarded as a) a major oversimplification of matters or b) a blatant disregard for human lives and suffering, but I believe ISIS -- or rather, the redrawing of the colonial borders of the former Ottoman Empire -- is the key to long-term piece in the region. Only with the collapse of states like Iraq and Syria, and the reassembling of its people in organic states, based on ethnicity and religion, rather than arbitrary lines in the sand will there be peace in that region of the Middle East.

 

It definitely won't be pretty for the people, it won't be pretty for the West, or for Iran, but it will be great for the future.

I don't buy it. You might be right about redrawing of borders and collapse of current powers being a good thing in the long run. But not the way ISIS is going about it. Regardless of the causes, we cannot let such a radical group run free and unchecked. These are people who have boasted of re-establishing slavery. They are fundamentalists who put no value in free thought or enlightenment. They stand against every kind of freedom. This might help with the borders, but it will set human rights conditions, which are already pitiful, centuries behind. As beneficial as the core idea might be of a new state in the region, one which is united by common beliefs and ideals, ISIS cannot be allowed to achieve that goal. Not at the price they are putting on it.

 

ISIS must be eradicated, with a full on military invasion if necessary, and when the dust settles, we can talk about these borders again.

[Ai®a©ob®a]

I'm not too sure about America, but here in the UK, their recruiting vulnerable people here to join the IS over social media and through 'other' forms, surprisingly, a lot have bought tickets and flown into the middle east. What I hate is that in the news, they have articles of them 'wanting to come home' because it 'wasn't for them' to be honest, I consider that treason, if you were to fly over into another country just to commit terrorist acts against your own country, then surely that is treason. A jail sentence wouldn't be enough. Though knowing our government, they'd get a slap on the wrist and a free house.

Yup, If you go and fight with those scumbags then you deserve to die like one too.

 

Whenever they come back to their home countries they should be sent right back to where they just came from especally the ones who take their kids with them.

[K^2]

Yup, If you go and fight with those scumbags then you deserve to die like one too.

 

Whenever they come back to their home countries they should be sent right back to where they just came from especally the ones who take their kids with them.

Can we at least move the kids to foster care before sending them back? I kind of feel bad for the children.

 

But yeah, since they are double-traitors at that point, I see no point wasting tax-payers' money on lengthy trials. Just send them back for ISIS to deal with them.

[Mr. House]

One could be Devil's Advocate and suggest that such people could be useful as informants.

 

Not that I necessarily agree with that position or particularly care if they would be.

[Ai®a©ob®a]

 

Yup, If you go and fight with those scumbags then you deserve to die like one too.

 

Whenever they come back to their home countries they should be sent right back to where they just came from especally the ones who take their kids with them.

Can we at least move the kids to foster care before sending them back? I kind of feel bad for the children.

 

But yeah, since they are double-traitors at that point, I see no point wasting tax-payers' money on lengthy trials. Just send them back for ISIS to deal with them.

 

Gives the kids back to the parent they were taken away from, A lot of these kids are kidnapped by their parent and taken out of the country without the permission of the other parent.

 

I quoted an article in this Post about Dads who took their kids to Syria.

 

Sad thing too a bunch of teenage girls from Britain & France are being lured to Syria some as young as 12 under the guise of being "Babysitters" when in reality they are going to be married off as soon as they get there and many of them not all but many want to come home as soon as they get there and they are raped, assaulted and beaten before they even make it to Syria but their handlers in Turkey.

 

I feel bad for those girls because they were given the romantic version of it but when they got there it turned into their worse nightmare and it's almost impossible to get them back without some kind of ransom and/or immunity for those who want to return home but will only bring the girl if they are granted immunity from charges.

[Melech]

There's a reason why people in lets say western Europe generally don't believe in the moral teachings of the old testament anymore, and why we don't live in tribes/sects anymore, it is because we have advanced and free societies with high standards of living, the type of societies that countries in the Middle East are prevented from having by outside influences/forces.

 

If they don't have an advanced and free society it's because these countries and societies are driven by religion and don't have the basic building blocks to support freedom and democracy. Democracy doesn't work with them.

 

Just take a look at the election winners in Arab Spring "liberated" countries. In Egypt won the Brotherhood, in Tunisia the Brotherhood-affiliated Ennahda. This means these people don't want democracy. They just want panem, circenses et Allah. They carried out a revolution because they didn't have this, not because they didn't have democracy. Of course, some are secularists and want a real democracy, but they are a minority in these countries.

 

Saudi Arabia, Qatar or Bahrain have very high standards of living and they are countries driven by Islamic extremism. These countries also fund terror worldwide (Hamas in Gaza, Al-Nusra in Syria, etc.). The standard of living hasn't much to do with religious fundamentalism. There have not been revolutions in Qatar, Bahrain or Saudi Arabia because they are rich and have Sharia law.

 

But yes, blame it all on "outside influences/forces"! This is a very infantile and xenophobic attitude. If the West didn't exist, these countries would be free, democratic, rich and advanced. They would be a paradise! They are perfect while the West is evil, imperialist and the cause of all of most of the world's problems!

 

Is this what you mean? Just asking.

 

Actually what these countries need is outside influences, Western influences, liberalism. They need Lumières, they need to go through an age of enlightenment, just like Europe did. Without this, Europe would still be feudalist, and without this, these countries will never advance.

 

Sad but true.

 

Take lets say Iran. Iran was a parliamentary democracy in the early 1950's and was secular. Then the CIA installed a very suppressive dictator because they wanted to prevent Iran from nationalizing oil profits. This eventually caused a radical Islamic revolution in 1979 and now it is an Islamic fundamentalist state. There's a long history of outside forces backing and installing authoritarian regimes in countries in the Middle East, and the only ones brave enough to fight those regimes are Islamic fundamentalists.

 

Perhaps the government was secular, but the society was very religious and conservative. Yes, the US installed the tyranny of the Shah Reza Pahlavi, who westernized and secularized the country. The religious conservative society didn't like that, and along with the repression and poverty those were the causes of the revolution, just to choose Islamic fundamentalists.

 

It's true that the US backed many dictators, but this is not the cause of most of these countries' problems and religious fundamentalism. Just to name an example, the US backed the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco. The only ones who fought him were communists and anarchists. But when he died, Spaniards didn't vote for fascist or communist parties, they voted for democracy.

 

What I mean is that their current situation has to do with their ethos and religious fundamentalism, and little with outside influences (as I said before, this is what they need).

 

PS: Many Western-backed dictators were secular, unlike their opponents.

 

The biggest source of funding for worlwide jihadism in general and ISIS specifically is coming from oil rich NATO allies like Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc...

 

Exactly.

 

It is also well known that the Iraq war has greatly increased the worlwide terrorist threat. Before the Iraq war there was no jihadism in Iraq. Look at Iraq now. It's ironic the Iraq war is named 'the war on terror' by US propaganda considering the insane amount of terror it has caused.

 

Saddam was a psychopathic, bloodthirsty dictator who posed a threat. The US didn't know that overthrowing him would create more terror.

 

This is either a strange joke, trolling or an islamophobic agenda being pushed to the max.

 

Come live in the Middle East and then you share what you learned with us, ok? How nice is to opine from peaceful Europe/North America.

 

So now criticizing Islamic fundamentalism is "Islamphobia"? This is as stupid as if I said that critizicing Kahanism is anti-Semitic.

 

The main victims of this fundamentalism are Muslims themselves. The problem is not Islam but fundamentalism and mixing religion with politics.

 

To implicitly equate Islam and fundamentalism is Islamophobic.

 

Also the conservative "satirical" comics which don't even have any readership among the most misinformed geriatrics of Southern Florida are to be posted by lil_weasel and lil_weasel only.

 

What do you mean? What are you talking about?

 

I don't get you.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Those "Western" psychopathic terrorists who have moved to Syria or Iraq to join IS should be revoked their citizenship, or at least their passport, as Canada and Australia are doing. They should not be allowed to come back. As you guys rightly said, they are traitors.

 

I feel bad for the children. Those parents who bring them to Syria or Iraq don't love their children. If they did, they would not do that.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Palikari

[Clem Fandango]

Everything you just said is complete and utter garbage. I could point out why, but it's already been spelled out to you on this very page. You don't seem to care. I don't think you even really believe you are right, how could you?

 

They are still flying these ancient things?

That's what happens when you make cuts on the military. Then, there's no money for new jets.

 

hahahahh oh wow you are f*cking nuts. Honestly I'm more scared of people like you than of ISIS. You're a bloodthirsty extremist, and people like you have been eroding out democracy since the start of the Cold War.

[K^2]

Alright, I take it all back. Apparently, ISIS has captured some Syrian aircraft and are learning to fly them. Among them, apparently are "military planes like these." Yes, these are famous for their military capability L-39 Albatros. These are aircraft deemed so terrible, that they rarely receive any armaments whatsoever. Because they are, in fact, trainers. Granted, Syria has converted a few to be capable of working as attack planes. There is a cleaner view of one of such L-39ZA's right here, but adding hard points and a gun to a trainer hardly makes it a war plane.

 

Report continues to show dozens of other aircraft at the captured Jirah air base. All of them appear to be Mig-15s and 17s that got retired long before this mess even started and have been sitting in various states of disrepair since.

 

To be fair, ISIS has captured two more air bases, and one of them apparently had some Mig-21MF/UMs. Which isn't a huge upgrade, but still something compared to the L-39ZA.

 

 

My point is that by the looks of it, EA-6B Prowler is probably too advanced of an aircraft for the fight. I'm not sure how much of a point ECM would even be, since there will only be a handful of R-27s with radar guidance that can be fired from the handful of Mig-21s they got. But might as well use up the resource on these Prowlers before they get recycled, right?

[Melech]

Everything you just said is complete and utter garbage.

Wow! Great argument.

 

You don't seem to care. I don't think you even really believe you are right, how could you?

I don't care if you or others agree with me or not or if what I say is politically correct or not. I'm just saying what I think with education and respect, trying not to offend anyone. If my comments offend anyone, then I am sorry.

 

Of course I believe I am right, but sometimes I could be wrong (I am not perfect). Do you write things thinking or knowing you're wrong? LOL

 

Respect me if you want to be respected. Respect is a two-way street.

 

hahahahh oh wow you are f*cking nuts. Honestly I'm more scared of people like you than of ISIS. You're a bloodthirsty extremist, and people like you have been eroding out democracy since the start of the Cold War.

Seriously, was necessary to insult me? To call me all those ugly things? I have never insulted you. It's funny, because if I dared to insult you (I won't, I have an education) you would cry out pointing out how evil (and uneducated) I am. Oh, you're already doing that with your insults!

 

So would you prefer to be in Raqqa, "capital" of the Islamic State, than in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, full of people like me? Are you serious? If you're serious then there's something wrong with you. Please, tell me I got you wrong...

 

Bloodthirsty extremist? Eroding democracy? REALLY??? Do you really believe what you're saying? You don't even know me.

 

If you want to talk about myself, then I invite you to discuss via PM. But no insults please.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Palikari

[Special Members]

 

Bloodthirsty extremist? Eroding democracy? REALLY??? Do you really believe what you're saying? You don't even know me.

 

If you want to talk about myself, then I invite you to discuss via PM. But no insults please.

 

You don't have to know you to know that you're a war-loving, ultra-conservative, Israelian nationalist nutbag. You make it clear in almost every post you make.

 

inb4 Failure defends his great friend, Palikari.

[Doc Rikowski]

I don't think that any type of aircraft used by ISIS can be considered a threat when facing US air force, isn't it? I think it is completely irrelevant if ISIS has planes or not unless they are left free to use them.

 

---

 

Palikari, Sykes-Picot is part of the problem, that's the only thing I said. Being part of something means not being the only nor the main cause. So your question was answered before you made it.

 

But overall I entirely disagree with your opinion about Islam and Middle East countries so there's really no need to discuss this further cause there is no common ground,

especially when you forget (or ignore) that Europe came out of its dark ages with a big contribution from Islam's golden age (see your quote below).

When, as a modern society, we'll start to look at past history as an organic process in which all cultures contributed equally and contemporaneously — for better or for worse — then we'll be able

to address modern issues without the anachronistic and ignorant attitude of "us vs them". Europe and the Middle East are not to be considered separated entities. They are not.

For centuries, through land and sea, through culture and commerce, through peace and war, through religion and philosophy, we shared a common history. Ignoring it is just another step towards global stupidity.

 

 

 

Actually what these countries need is outside influences, Western influences, liberalism. They need Lumières, they need to go through an age of enlightenment, just like Europe did. Without this, Europe would still be feudalist, and without this, these countries will never advance.