Middle Eastern Conflict [General]

[FranklinDeRoosevelt]

Ignore this post. I got confused.

Edited October 17, 2014 by FranklinDeRoosevelt

[Frank Brown]

What?

[FranklinDeRoosevelt]

Thank you for proving your statements with facts rather than anecdotal evidence.

 

Edit: Oh you sneaky bastard, you ninja-edited after I posted.

 

 

In fact, the biggest proof is that in the Qur'aan, there is a verse where it says if you kill a person, it's equivalent to killing everyone in the world.

 

You said only in times of defensive war, then equated killing one man or woman at all to killing everyone. This statement goes directly against your previous one. That's a contradiction. But, I'm assuming English isn't your first language, which is fine, especially since you seem to be able to speak Arabic. Kudos to you.

 

 

It's not like I can stop you from actually hating the religion when you know nothing about it. Also, post the source where you found that giant quote from. And do NOT say the Qur'aan because if that was extracted through the internet, I guarantee that some idiot thinks he can read arabic or just misinterpreted something.

 

That's not from the Qur'an, it's from the Sahih al-Bukhari, a Sunni Hadith. Islamic State is Sunni, unless something shifted overnight. So, I figured it was fitting.

 

Here.

I couldn't find the quote you posted. Can you tell me the exact location? Thanks for posting the source. But I could see straight away some of the quotes saying that killing is not allowed unlawfully, which is what I just said before. Proof from your source: Volume 9, Book 83, Number 2:

 

 

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "A faithful believer remains at liberty regarding his religion unless he kills somebody unlawfully."

Again, its not a contradiction because the only way to use violence is if you need to defend yourself or if you're going to holy war, killing is only "necessary" then. This part is IN THE QUR'AAN. So it seems you still can't understand what I've been saying all this time. If you seriously think I was contradicting myself, that would be the same thing as saying every human contradicting themselves because they killed someone in defence or because of war. Also, I'm not an Arab nor can I myself speak in Arabic. I never said I was so it's your English that isn't really the best. Like I said before though, I'm not a hardcore follower, I'm a casual one, but I've done my studies. I haven't studied the Bukhari because that is WAY beyond my level of learning that I went through before.

Edited October 17, 2014 by FranklinDeRoosevelt

[undertaker fan]

What FranklinDeRoosevelt said in the previous posts is 100% right, Muslim are only allowed to go on Jihad(holy war) unless they are being attacked. What the IS is doing is wrong and they attracting many people because the people are usually Muslims with less knowledge of Islam or they hate the Non Muslims.

[Melech]

You're not a Muslim, you wouldn't know.

 

You're not Israeli or Jewish, so don't dare to critizice Israel, Israeli policies or Zionism. You see? This despicable twisted logic works both ways.

 

You have right to fairly criticize Israel, as every person in this world does. Just like Vlynor has right to criticize Islam or to give his opinion about it.

 

Stop trying to preach your arrogance all over me because I don't want to listen to your bullsh*t.

 

I know Vlynor since many time ago, and he's not an arrogant person. And he's not being arrogant now, but you are.

 

Like I said, extremists do not have the right knowledge of Islam because everything they are doing goes against the religion. How many times do I have to say this? It's been PROVEN over and over and over that Islam ONLY allows Muslims to fight only on the defensive and war. Are ISIS doing this? HELL NO.

 

Well, these extremists think they have the right knowledge of Islam, and it's the rest of Muslims the ones who don't have the right knowledge of Islam.

 

IS thinks they are fighting a defensive war against "crusaders" and Arab regimes allied with these "crusaders" that are "oppressing" Muslims.

 

In fact, the biggest proof is that in the Qur'aan, there is a verse where it says if you kill a person, it's equivalent to killing everyone in the world.

 

There are also many verses in the Quran that praise and encourage violence against non-Muslims. I can point them out if you want.

 

No wonder there are many interpretations of the Quran, and many fights between Muslims. It's a very contradictory book.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that IS terrorists are right about Islam, but I'm not saying they are wrong, as Islam can be interpreted in many ways. You interpret it your way, and they interpret it theirs.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Palikari

[undertaker fan]

....... confused.

Edited October 17, 2014 by undertaker fan

[Melech]

Islam cannot be interpretated as extreme as the IS is doing

You're contradicting yourself.

 

You say Islam can't be interpreted that way, and then you say IS is doing that.

 

If IS is doing that, then it can be interpreted that way.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Palikari

[FranklinDeRoosevelt]

Sorry, but there is NO intepret their way because whatever they are doing is AGAINST the religion for f*cks sake. They are absolutely not defensively fighting a war against crusaders when there is no crusaders identified to be oppressing Muslims. If there is, which is probably a few or maybe a lot which I clearly don't know, then we are not seeing ISIS dealing with them. Who are they and where are they located right now? All they are seem to be doing is using military equipment and deadly tactics and using it to strike fear into people's hearts and they are killing OTHER Muslims from different groups as well. I've seen YouTube videos of them chasing innocent people and shooting them while they're driving, I've even saw a video where they shot a whole family dead going in a taxi. If you wanna interpret the religion like that, then fine, who am I to stop you?

Edited October 17, 2014 by FranklinDeRoosevelt

[sivispacem]

Right, seen as this seems to be getting out of hand yet again (less of the ad hominems guys), I think it's best to simply butt in and clarify.

 

Most muslims- Sunni, Shi'a or whatever other denomination or sub-denomination, would see Jihad as defensive and protective. However, that doesn't preclude some sub-denominations from taking an offensive interpretation of Jihad or extrapolating the concept of a "defensive" war designed to protect to muslims who don't happen to follow their (generally Salafist) interpretation of Islam, or indeed to external threats they see as encroaching spiritually and culturally on the preservation of a fundamentalist caliphate, despite those external threats not actually necessarily physically encroaching on whatever land they decide to lay claim to. From the perspective of majority opinion, offensive Jihad is wrong but Qutbism is seen by its followers as a faction within Islam- in fact, the only true faction- and given that Islam technically only consists of multiple factions, there's no central, higher or unified ideological basis still in existence for anyone to dispute that other than mullah, and then only from their own sect.

[Detective Phelps]

ISIS 'training pilots to fly fighter jets'.

 

 

Iraqi pilots who have joined Islamic State are training its members in Syria to fly three captured fighter jets, according to a UK-based activist group that monitors the conflict.

 

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) said witnesses had seen the planes being flown around a military airport in Aleppo.

Meanwhile, Iraqi forces have launched an attack on IS militants near Tikrit.

The city was among the areas in Syria and Iraq seized by IS this year.

Rami Abdul Rahman, head of the SOHR, said IS was using Iraqi officers who were pilots under ex-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to train fighters in Syria.

They also have several helicopters in Iraq.

 

 

 

@Palikari

Wait, what??? Jews joining Daesh? Well, they have Kurds in their ranks, but I'm surprised to see Jews joining ISIS. It's only 3 or 4 Jews, and it appears that at least one of them got radicalised online. Online radicalisation is also becoming more and more prevalent (well, that's a bit obvious, isn't it?).

 

Talking about radicalisation, I've also noticed that lot of people joining ISIS were secular before radicalisation. This explains their lack of understanding of Islam. A Muslim who knows the real meaning of Jihad (struggle) should also know that this so-called "Islamic" state are the Khawarij (those who are not on the right path/those who deviate from the right path).

 

Actually, I just found this hadith, from Al-Bukhari, and Muslim. It's on the Khawarij (such as ISIS, Al-Shabab, Boko Haram, and other vile terrorists who deviate from the religion):

 

Just before the end of time, young, idiotic people will rise. They will say words similar to (the good words) of the best people. They will recite the Quran, but it will not go beyond their throats. They will deviate from the religion as fast as an arrow pierces the game. If you meet them, kill them, for killing them will bring about a reward from Allah on the Day of Resurrection for whoever kills them.” [Al-Bukhari & Muslim].

 

So, killing ISIS members is a good thing, as they are traitors.

Maybe we Muslims should be doing more. I'm looking at you, Turkey!

[Melech]

Detective Phelps, you're a NSA officer monitoring me, right? You've just posted what I was about to post about IS jets!

 

Anyway, here are more sources, including the original one (SOHR).

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/17/us-mideast-crisis-jets-idUSKCN0I60TM20141017

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2797167/does-isis-airforce-terrorist-fighter-pilots-trained-captured-migs-saddam-hussein-s-ex-air-force-officers.html

http://syriahr.com/en/2014/10/warplanes-under-the-hands-of-the-islamic-state/

 

I hope the US uploads to internet the video of a USAF jet taking down one of those IS jets! I'd enjoy a lot watching it.

 

 

@Palikari

Wait, what??? Jews joining Daesh? Well, they have Kurds in their ranks, but I'm surprised to see Jews joining ISIS. It's only 3 or 4 Jews, and it appears that at least one of them got radicalised online. Online radicalisation is also becoming more and more prevalent (well, that's a bit obvious, isn't it?).

Yes, but I don't get why Jews would join an ideology that wants to see all of us dead. A Jew joining IS is just like a Jew joining the Waffen SS.

 

The source said that "some" converted to Islam. Ok, but does this mean that some didn't? This is crazy.

 

 

Talking about radicalisation, I've also noticed that lot of people joining ISIS were secular before radicalisation. This explains their lack of understanding of Islam.

I think some have not become religious or radicals and have joined IS just because It gives them permission to behave monstrously with impunity. In fact, two British jihadists purchased Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies before heading to Syria. They weren’t drawn there by religion. They were drawn by the license to kill, by their psychopathy.

 

 

So, killing ISIS members is a good thing, as they are traitors.

Exactly! Muslim countries should send female pilots to bomb them. If they don't have enough we can help:

 

 

 

Maybe we Muslims should be doing more. I'm looking at you, Turkey!

Turkey wants Kurds to be killed. The IS is not a problem, as NATO would defend Turkey from IS. You know, let others do the dirty job!

Edited October 17, 2014 by Palikari

[Ai®a©ob®a]

You know if you want to go do Jihad and get yourself killed then do what you want but leave your kids out of it.

Jihadis take their kids to war; moms fight back

 

PRISTINA, Kosovo (AP) — It started out as a father-and-son trip to Kosovo's western mountains in July. It turned into a months-long ordeal for an 8-year-old boy who was taken to war-torn Syria by his jihadi father and only returned following a shadowy operation involving Kosovo's spy agency.

"I thought they were going on a holiday for a couple of days," his mother, Pranvera Zena Abazi, 30, told The Associated Press in an interview late Thursday. "Three days later I got an SMS from his father, Arben, saying they were in Syria."

She was reunited with her son Erion late Wednesday after what Kosovo officials said was a "delicate and dangerous" operation that involved security and intelligence agents.

 

"It was a moment that I have no words to describe," Zena Abazi said, adding that authorities gave her only an hour's notice before she saw her only child again.

 

Extremists in Syria are apparently encouraging jihadis traveling to join them to bring children, intent upon proving they can establish an Islamic caliphate, compete with devout families. In addition to the fighters who sometimes bring their children, teenage girls and young women from Europe and elsewhere have been targeted for jihad and ultimately enlisted to help in babysitting, according to interviews with security officials and families.

 

Erion's case received wide attention in Kosovo after his mother made a public appeal for her son's return. A Facebook page was opened in support of Zena Abazi and she made media appearances in Kosovo and Albania, from where a growing number of youths have joined Islamist radicals in Iraq and Syria.

 

Details about Erion's return remain murky. Kosovo media suggested the boy was brought back by another Kosovo jihadi in return for a pardon from authorities for joining a terrorist group, an illegal act in Kosovo. Officials declined to comment on the reports.

 

An Associated Press reporter saw the boy ushered into a room in Pristina's International Airport Wednesday night by two men in civilian clothes, apparently agents of Kosovo's Intelligence Agency who had flown into the Kosovo capital from Turkey.

 

The boy's father, Arben Zena, is believed to be now in Iraq, according to Kosovo authorities who are monitoring his contacts with other suspected radicals. Abazi Zena says she has not heard from him.

 

It's not the first case of jihadi parents taking their children to war-torn areas.

 

Moroccan authorities on Wednesday detained a man traveling with his 2- and 4-year-old daughters to join the Islamic State group, the government said. The mother of the girls, who like them is French, was not with them, the government statement said.

 

In testimony to a French government-sponsored center against Islamic radicalization, Ilham Tarbouni, mother of 3-year-old Jana, said her ex-husband took their daughter for jihad during an unsupervised custody visit in August, although he had seen the girl only three times in her life. She said she has had no news of the girl since Aug. 29.

 

"I want to tell Jana that I miss her. That I was obligated to give her to her father and did it against my better judgment," she said in a video interview released last week.

 

In September, just a few days after Jana's disappearance, a French toddler taken to Syria by her father was returned to France after protracted negotiations.

 

The child's mother, Meriam Rhaiem, had publicly appealed to the French government to help her retrieve Assia and had maintained some contact with the girl's father. The 28-month-old child was released Sept. 2 and returned to France after being away for 11 months, bundled in a blanket in her mother's arms aboard a plane from Turkey with France's top security official alongside her.

 

There are also cases of mothers taking their children to jihad. On Friday, Munich prosecutors said two German citizens — a 20-year-old man and a 33-year-old woman, had taken the woman's 8-year-old son with them when they traveled to Syria in August to fight.

 

The boy was taken into care by authorities in Austria who arrested the couple last weekend.

 

Zena Abazi said she has not spoken to her son about his months in Syria, which has been ravaged for years by civil war.

 

"I want him to go back the life he had. I'm not dealing with what went on there," she said. "He wants to play football, he always did. And I would like to make that wish come true. I want to fulfil his every wish."

[Melech]

Arabic speakers on the forum, could you please translate the Islamic State seal and flag? I would like to know what it all means. Thank you!

 

Seal:

 

 

Flag:

 

[Moth]

 

You know if you want to go do Jihad and get yourself killed then do what you want but leave your kids out of it.

article

 

F*cking scum bags.

[TrevorEffingPhillips]

Arabic speakers on the forum, could you please translate the Islamic State seal and flag? I would like to know what it all means. Thank you!

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-04/ever-wonder-what-black-and-white-isis-flag-means

[Sasuke Uzumaki]

Killing, unless in defense, is the ultimate sin in Islam, earning you a one way ticket to damnation.

Why is ISIS doing this? What have the people they've killed ever done to them? I pray for Peter Kassig, he doesn't deserve to be in the current situation he's in. I just want peace in the world, but people are just always fighting with each other for no reason.

[Melech]

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-04/ever-wonder-what-black-and-white-isis-flag-means

Thanks! And the seal?

[TrevorEffingPhillips]

Killing, unless in defense, is the ultimate sin in Islam, earning you a one way ticket to damnation.

Why is ISIS doing this? What have the people they've killed ever done to them? I pray for Peter Kassig, he doesn't deserve to be in the current situation he's in. I just want peace in the world, but people are just always fighting with each other for no reason.

cant speak for them but when most the rest of the world fights a war it's to avoid civilian caualties. does it ever work? lol, no. war is hell, we all want peace but if that doesn't work out give me a call.

 

sorry could not find anything on the seal

Edited October 18, 2014 by TrevorEffingPhillips

[Shaundi.]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/17/islamic-state-training-pilots-mig-planes-syria

 

inb4 ISIS Air Force

[sivispacem]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/17/islamic-state-training-pilots-mig-planes-syria

 

inb4 ISIS Air Force

But a long way behind about four other posters.

[ClaudeSpeed1911]

Arabic speakers on the forum, could you please translate the Islamic State seal and flag? I would like to know what it all means. Thank you!

 

Seal:

 

 

Flag:

 

Black font:The banner of one nation and one

Silver font: The Islamic state of Syria and Iraq.

 

 

 

Killing, unless in defense, is the ultimate sin in Islam, earning you a one way ticket to damnation.

Why is ISIS doing this? What have the people they've killed ever done to them? I pray for Peter Kassig, he doesn't deserve to be in the current situation he's in. I just want peace in the world, but people are just always fighting with each other for no reason.

 

 

The reason they are doing this is because the leader want power and brain washes people into thinking that to be a true Muslims they must fight for ISIS, And many more reasons like 72 virgins or being able to do what they want without trouble.

 

Which is wrong because a true Muslim can't kill anyone but only in defense, even suicide is wrong which means strapping a bomb into ones chest and killing others including him self is Haram which means the go straight to hell.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ClaudeSpeed1911

[Detective Phelps]

@Palikari

 

The flag has the Shahada, the Muslim decleration of faith.

"There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad (SAW) is his messenger"

The flag used by ISIS, however, only contains half of the shahada - "there is no God but Allah".

 

This was the one of the flags used by the prophet Muhammad (SAW) himself. It's the black banner. It's also known as the banner of the eagle.

The black banner was also used by the Abbasid Caliphate. There is a hadith mentioning that the Mahdi's arrival will be signalled with black flags in Khorosan (NE Iran and parts of SW Afghanistan), so this black banner is important to us. It's very upsetting to see these idiots in ISIS desecrating a holy flag.

 

 

As for the seal...

The seal contains the seal of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW). This seal is also on the flag.

 

The words say: "Allah's messenger, Muhammad" (SAW).

 

It's ISIS' attempt to make itself look like a "legitimate" Islamic State, when it's not. They also want present themselves as the Mahdi's caliphate. In our belief, the Mahdi will appear before the day of judgement, and he would establish an Islamic State (black flags from Khorosan). Then again, ISIS aren't a legitimate caliphate anyway. They are khawarij, they are traitors.

 

 

As for the bit in the gold part of the seal, ClaudeSpeed1911 has already translated that.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Detective Phelps

[GunWrath]

I read where some Dutch bikers joined up with the Kurds to fight against ISIS and seen some photos. Pretty cool.

[sivispacem]

Couple of pages ago...

[Melech]

Thank you for the translation!

[Detective Phelps]

Iraq crisis: MPs complete unity government - BBC NEWS

 

 

Iraqi MPs have approved new defence and interior ministers, completing a unity government that is battling the spread of Islamic State militants.

 

Mohammed Salem al-Ghabban, a Shia, was appointed interior minister, while Khaled al-Obeidi, a Sunni, was confirmed as defence minister.

IS controls large parts of the country, and has been making gains despite US-led coalition air strikes.

On Friday, a curfew was imposed in the city of Ramadi amid fierce fighting.

The vote by Iraqi MPs will be a big relief both inside and outside Iraq after weeks of wrangling, says BBC Arab affairs editor Sebastian Usher.

A more inclusive cabinet is seen as an essential first step in countering IS fighters, particularly among Iraq's Sunni minority, our correspondent adds.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Detective Phelps

[Melech]

The US Navy and the US Department of Defense have uploaded photos of military operations against the Islamic State. An image is worth a thousand words, and these are the pictures our children will see on their history books at school and high school. So I will post some of them here.

(I put them under a spoiler so there will be no loading problems, as they are large files)

An F/A-18E Super Hornet, an F/A-18F Super Hornet, a F/A-18C Hornet and a EA-6B Prowler prepare to launch from the flight deck of the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77) to conduct strike missions against IS targets:

Source



Source



Source

The guided-missile cruisers USS Philippine Sea (CG 58) and USS Arleigh Burke (DDG 51) launch Tomahawk cruise missiles to conduct strikes against IS targets as seen from their bridge, deck and the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77):

Source



Source



Source



Source



Source



Source

The US Air Force flying over Iraq and Syria:

A U.S. Air Force KC-10 Extender aircraft refuels an F-22 Raptor aircraft over an undisclosed location Sept. 26, 2014, before strike operations in Syria:



Source



Source

A U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle aircraft refuels from a KC-135 Stratotanker aircraft over northern Iraq Sept. 23, 2014, after conducting airstrikes in Syria:



Source

 

A U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle aircraft refuels from a KC-135 Stratotanker aircraft over northern Iraq Sept. 23, 2014, after conducting airstrikes in Syria:

 

 

Source

 

A U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle aircraft flies over northern Iraq Sept. 23, 2014, after conducting airstrikes in Syria:

 

 

Source

 

Two U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle aircrafts fly over northern Iraq Sept. 23, 2014, after conducting airstrikes in Syria:

 

 

Source

 

 

 

You can find many more pictures about the military operation against IS on the websites and Flickr profiles of the US Navy and the US Department of Defense, among others.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Palikari

[Ai®a©ob®a]

 

I've always loved seeing pictures and videos of Jets in action.

 

I wanted to join the U.S Air Force and become a fighter pilot like my Grandpa & Uncles were but was denied admission into the military for medical reasons if i had I'd probably be one of those bombing.

 

But during my senior year in high school right after the War in Iraq & Afghanistan started we had to do a report on the progress of the war and i chose to do my project on the air campaign and i made a compilation video of the Fighters, Bombers & Attack Helos approaching and destroying their target it turned out great.

 

You can still find a bunch of videos around online if you'd like to see em.

[ddyoung]

Those were some amazing pictures!

[FranklinDeRoosevelt]

Nice pictures. I think the first one is the best though. Seeing those jets in pitch dark, night time looks crazy.