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acmilano

Middle Eastern Conflict [General]

Recommended Posts

Doland J. Trump

See, this is why nobody should have pulled any troops out. It was only a matter of time. Now I know people say America shouldn't act as a global police force but when this happens American and other countries like Australia need to act. Terrorism is a global problem and it must be eradicated. I give it just under a week before US jets are in Iraq.

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a20characterusername

 

Another US invasion won't help anyone.

Do you suggest it's better to let those terrorists take over the country?

 

Oh stop with all the fearmongering already. You sound like an AIPAC lobbyist for crying out loud.

 

This "war on terror' is just an excuse for endless, undeclared wars against anyone who doesn't play ball with the U.S., which only creates more aggression in the form of blowback. It's a neverending cycle.

 

f*cking neoconservatives, how do they work?

Edited by gtarelatedusername2

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ddyoung

See, this is why nobody should have pulled any troops out. It was only a matter of time. Now I know people say America shouldn't act as a global police force but when this happens American and other countries like Australia need to act. Terrorism is a global problem and it must be eradicated. I give it just under a week before US jets are in Iraq.

We never should have gone in to Iraq in the first place. But what's done is done. The USS George HW Bush along with 2 guided missile ships have been deployed to the Persian Gulf. They might help the Iraqi AF, but I think they're there to deter ISIS from going into Baghdad. The CIA and US special operations units are probably already involved in the fighting, but I hope it doesn't escalate from that.

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I cucked Alex Jones

See, this is why nobody should have pulled any troops out. It was only a matter of time. Now I know people say America shouldn't act as a global police force but when this happens American and other countries like Australia need to act. Terrorism is a global problem and it must be eradicated. I give it just under a week before US jets are in Iraq.

The only reason this is happening is because the US got involved.

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KD himan

I can't imagine how 2.75 Lakh iraqi soldiers cant break out 12 thousand Terrorists and because of such war, india is in big trouble, the currency will have less value and gold and silver may be much expensive as well as petrol. on the other side, in afghanistan, terrorists are cutting off the fingers of people who are voting. and also in iraq, they are uploading the photos on how they are cruel, killing the iraqi soldiers. i really don't want to post such photos on society. please sorry.

Edited by KD himan

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SouthLand

These guys are ambitious:

 

isid-in-hedefinde-turkiye-de-mi-var--446

 

 

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahaha

 

They can dream all they want... By the way, the map is quite wrong, they did NOT conquer the whole peninsula:

 

Green stands for the Arab occupation :

 

Spanish_reconquista-es.gif

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Frank Brown

 

These guys are ambitious:

 

isid-in-hedefinde-turkiye-de-mi-var--446

 

 

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahaha

 

They can dream all they want... By the way, the map is quite wrong, they did NOT conquer the whole peninsula:

 

Green stands for the Arab occupation :

 

Spanish_reconquista-es.gif

 

 

 

Umayyad-Empire.png

 

That's a map of the Umayyad Caliphate at its greatest extent. While it's not the entirety of the Iberian peninsula, it's pretty close. If you look back on page 2, I linked a map which shows the spread of Islam, which includes Ottoman, Umayyad, and other conquests. It goes up into modern day France and includes the entire peninsula.

 

The extra areas shown might just be the creators saying, "Hey, why not out-do our predecessors?"

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SouthLand

 

 

These guys are ambitious:

 

isid-in-hedefinde-turkiye-de-mi-var--446

 

 

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahaha

 

They can dream all they want... By the way, the map is quite wrong, they did NOT conquer the whole peninsula:

 

Green stands for the Arab occupation :

 

Spanish_reconquista-es.gif

 

 

 

Umayyad-Empire.png

 

That's a map of the Umayyad Caliphate at its greatest extent. While it's not the entirety of the Iberian peninsula, it's pretty close. If you look back on page 2, I linked a map which shows the spread of Islam, which includes Ottoman, Umayyad, and other conquests. It goes up into modern day France and includes the entire peninsula.

 

The extra areas shown might just be the creators saying, "Hey, why not out-do our predecessors?"

 

 

They are just crazy...

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K^2

So apparently US is already in the talks with Iran about what they can do in Iraq. No talks of direct cooperation yet, but it already looks like ISIS has pushed US-Iran relations further along than they have been in a very long time.

 

And I doubt there is any reason for US to put boots on the ground. Between Iraqis that are enlisting and potential help from Iran ground forces, they have the troops they need. If US can provide intelligence and air support, that's all the help they will need.

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Lil ski

So they got the US Marine FAST teams about to go in and rescue everyone the f*ck outta the US Embassy in Baghdad and another 500 Marines on stand by just in case sh*t goes south. I hope the boys will be alright. I'm not hoping for another boots on ground assault or anything, we already had enough 15 years of this sh*t but these crazy ass niggas need to be dealt with some way or another!

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SingularSoul

1 word; Oil.

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El Dildo

oil has literally nothing to do with the current Iraqi conflict, but that's like the 5th time somebody has mentioned it in this thread.

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SingularSoul

oil has literally nothing to do with the current Iraqi conflict, but that's like the 5th time somebody has mentioned it in this thread.

 

Are you honestly trying to suggest that our governments actually give a sh*t about anything that goes on in the middle east?

Money talks in politics. If they sniff oil, they'll use any excuse to get their corporate mittens on it.

 

Ok, so perhaps there's little return left on Iraq's oil; That doesn't mean it's not the reason we want to get involved.

Truth be told, it's simply continuity to support the middle east, in order to keep up the act that we "give a sh*t".

Frankly, I'd rather we invested our defense budgets into paying off our national debts, or funding public services.

War and conflict is never the answer.

 

As much as I sympathize with those involved in conflict, I still feel like we have no business getting involved in the issues of other states.

If they're going to fight, they're going to fight.

That'll never change, until their ideology's change; intervention or no intervention.

 

Wrong.

Edited by SingularSoul

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El Dildo

Are you honestly trying to suggest that our governments actually give a sh*t about anything that goes on in the middle east?

no.

 

but that's not what I said.

what I said is this: "oil has literally nothing to do with the current Iraqi conflict,"

 

you may now try to respond again.

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sivispacem

Anyone who thinks the current sectarian conflict in Iraq has anything to do with oil must be living in some bizarre alternate reality. The initial invasion had nothing really to do with oil (if it did, then why do the Chinese and Russians run basically all of Iraq's oil economy for their benefit?) so the idea the ongoing conflict does it totally ludicrous.

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SingularSoul

 

Are you honestly trying to suggest that our governments actually give a sh*t about anything that goes on in the middle east?

no.

 

but that's not what I said.

what I said is this: "oil has literally nothing to do with the current Iraqi conflict,"

 

you may now try to respond again.

 

 

 

Anyone who thinks the current sectarian conflict in Iraq has anything to do with oil must be living in some bizarre alternate reality. The initial invasion had nothing really to do with oil (if it did, then why do the Chinese and Russians run basically all of Iraq's oil economy for their benefit?) so the idea the ongoing conflict does it totally ludicrous.

 

Turns out, I was wrong. *holds hands up*

This is what I get for listening to my father's rhetoric.

 

After spending the last hour reading into the crisis, I realize that listening to your parent's opinions on controversial topics is never a good place to start.

 

Goddamn, now I look like a right tit. :p

 

EDIT: tin-foil-hat-3.jpg

Edited by SingularSoul

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Moth

(if it did, then why do the Chinese and Russians run basically all of Iraq's oil economy for their benefit?)

The Illuminati used the US to pave the way for the Russians and Chinese! It all makes perfect sense, you see!

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ddyoung

So the US has deployed 275 special forces members to evacuate the US embassy in Baghdad. I wonder if they'll also go on the offensive with capture/kill missions against ISIS

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SouthLand

Bush did the right thing invading Iraq. There where nuclear weapons Remember? :santa:

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sivispacem

I don't think it was ever alleged that Iraq had nuclear weapons.

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acmilano

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/15/world/meast/iraq-photos-isis/index.html?hpt=imi_c2

 

Quite a horrible pictures of executions. But it is obviously with pragmatic goal. This way all the people who were involved in executions become co-conspirators in crime and have to fight for ISIS till death. End of ISIS would mean also personal end for all who are involved.

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Moth

I don't think it was ever alleged that Iraq had nuclear weapons.

Just WMDs, and the first thing people think of, are nukes.

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ddyoung

 

I don't think it was ever alleged that Iraq had nuclear weapons.

Just WMDs, and the first thing people think of, are nukes.

 

Iraq had chemical weapons, but they were removed after the Gulf War. Bush and Blair said that he had amassed a new arsenal that may or may not include nukes. And with the Global War on Terror as good a reason as any, they invaded a country which had nothing to do with 9/11. While I don't agree with the war, I do support the removal of Saddam, but we really should not have stayed so long in Iraq or Afghanistan.

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Frank Brown

 

 

I don't think it was ever alleged that Iraq had nuclear weapons.

Just WMDs, and the first thing people think of, are nukes.

 

Iraq had chemical weapons, but they were removed after the Gulf War. Bush and Blair said that he had amassed a new arsenal that may or may not include nukes. And with the Global War on Terror as good a reason as any, they invaded a country which had nothing to do with 9/11. While I don't agree with the war, I do support the removal of Saddam, but we really should not have stayed so long in Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

 

To add to what Moth said in case you don't trust FOX, here's an official U.S. DoD report:

 

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918

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ddyoung

Well then, I guess we went in with a purpose other than oil. :blink:

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sivispacem

Even disregarding the findings on active WMD programs (though it is worth pointing out that we've found chemical weapon munitions in Iraq and the precursors for chemical weapons, these have tended to be quite old and usually beyond their shelf life) Iraq violated numerous UN treaties designed to prevent them from constructing and testing long-range missile technology. Had the focus of politicians been on the missiles and not their possible warheads...

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WTFThisIsntWii

NATO countries need to think about their contribution, the best method would be to provide both medical, security, logistical, geospatial and intelligence support. Whether it be logistical. Iraq is going to counterattack eventually and anyone who's been deployed with the Iraqi Army or ANA know they are not renounced for planning their offensives tactically and have a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later. By providing both intelligence and data NATO can ensure these forces are definitely attacking ISIS militants rather than civilians. We've already had reports of Iraqi Army helicopters shooting at their own troops after mistakenly identifying them as ISIS.

 

As far as I know from briefings on the situation in Iraq is that the US started deploying troops on the 15th of June. There are approximately 170 US military personnel with boots on the ground in Baghdad already with another 105 or so being cleared for deployment shortly. As far as I know from the US Marine's I speak to on base these troops are not Special Forces and are essentially there to help government and diplomatic staff with evacuation. But there are rumours around base that the US military is considering deploying Special Forces troops if the situation in the capital escalates but it would only be an authorised as an AT mission not an actual combat op.

 

Right now as it stands from an Australian perspective my regiment and the SASR are both currently on standby alert for a deployment to Iraq to help evacuate any Australian embassy staff or government officials should the fighting reach Baghdad. Although putting troops on the ground would only be a worst case scenario. Side note we are also on standby for a deployment to Nigeria.

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Doc Rikowski

As many pointed out the current conflict is focused on other issues.

But let's be honest and not so naive, the West obviously had substantial economical interests when it got involved in the Iraq war a decade ago and so far had substantial gains for being part of it.

 

True, Russia and China are getting away with most of the oil (are they?) but there's a reason for this and there are other revenues for Western companies in Iraq:

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-is-gobbling-up-iraqi-oil-2013-6

 

Also true that some Western companies are indeed making at least some money with Iraq's oil after being completely out of that market during Saddam's years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_industry_in_Iraq#Service_Contracts_Licensing_Results

+

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/20/iraq-energy-idUKL6N0CCAP520130320

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704825504574585923769346910

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2009/gb20091019_649543.htm

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/12/2011122813134071641.html

 

It also seems everyone forgot the September Dossier... :p

Edited by Doc Rikowski

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sivispacem

Yeah, no one is claiming that the West hasn't had a vested interest in various sectors in post-Saddam Iraq. The material gains for stakeholders in the West as a net result of the conflict, when you take into account the logistics of the actual invasion, of providing security for staff operating there, from the huge financial investments made in Iraqi infrastructure, are nil at best and significantly negative at worse. It was, when everything is taken into account, basically a negative-sum game for the Western world as a whole.

 

That's why the war-for-oil argument is largely bunk- because there's no individual stakeholder or group of stakeholders in the West who have actually profited from the conflict. Big oil? Not really. Military-industrial? When the strategic crux of the conflict was "expensive technology doesn't win counterinsurgency conflicts" and defence budgets have been adjusted to suit that mantra, I don't think so.

 

Of course, there's some merit to the argument that attempts by the West to install a friendly regime in Iraq for the purposes of opening up the market for the benefit of the West. It logically does make some sense, but still isn't reflected in the military conduct of the conflict. Had there been enough foresight amongst policy makers to actually think about what to do after the initial invasion, they probably wouldn't have ignored all the academics and strategic theorists telling them that they needed to instigate a strong, tribally based and decentralised regional administrative approach rather than trying to run everything from Baghdad. They would have started investing in infrastructure and local security from the off rather than three years down the line. The behaviour of the decision makers pretty much contradicts the idea that there was any post-invasion plan to speak of, much less one with defined economic objectives.

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