90sGTA Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 First time I played the game I can't say I was expecting it but it wasn't a shock either when it happened as I had picked up on some of the clues that others have mentioned but hadn't worked out their relevance. Once the reveal took place in TGS I instantly thought of things such as the house in Idlewood, the cosiness he seemed to have with Tenpenny and Pulaski and had an "Ah, of course!" moment. A lot of people were just hypnotized of his good personality. To me, however, I didn't buy his "good" personality a single tenth of a second. In fact, that just made me suspect him even more; the way he was being overly nice to CJ is enough evidence for his betrayal. For Ryder, there were no prominent clues to his betrayal. The only clue I could think of is in the mission Reuniting the Families when he and Big Smoke rode away, leaving CJ to search into the hotel for Sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose.Quartz Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Someone might of already said this but in the beginning Smoke throws the bat on Beverly's (CJ's mom) photo which is kind of foreshadowing. Henry Hernandez 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillBellic Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Someone might of already said this but in the beginning Smoke throws the bat on Beverly's (CJ's mom) photo which is kind of foreshadowing. Now that you mention it, it is one of the earliest scenes of foreshadowing, if you discount 'The Introduction' short movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coleman627 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Smoke was my favorite character. But I always knew he would turn on me the second I learned that his house was in Idlewood. Ryder's betrayal on the other hand still makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Hernandez Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) To be honest, Ryder's betrayal was far more surprising to me than Smoke's betrayal. While Ryder was a jerk, he actually had more passion to the GSF and seemed so obsessed with the gang that he seemed like a guy who wouldn't turn on his gang for any reason (which is why it would make more sense that someone would talk him into doing so in the introduction), and based on his personality, there's no way he would turn his back on the Grove unless there was someone else talking him into it. Smoke's betrayal on the other hand was too obvious from the beginning. In Drive Thru, he kept trying to get CJ and Sweet to stop talking about their mother's death like he was hiding something. Then he tries to eat up everyone's food as an excuse not to shoot at the Ballas. That's how you know he was trying to hide something. Let's not forget the fact that he wasn't at CJ's mom's funeral and even lives in Idlewood. How were those not hints to everyone who played the game? Hell even Lance's betrayal in Vice City was far more surprising than Smoke's betrayal. I never saw any hints to Ryder's betrayal and believe that R* just improvised his betrayal as an excuse to write him off of the storyline because they had no idea what to do with his character. Edited May 4, 2016 by Henry Hernandez Honker1944 and mde2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomuchinvigilation Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 And what about Big Smoke's driving in "Reuniting of Families"? It makes no sense. Why did he drive into the alleyway with a chopper? Why did he decide to go through? Why was he accelerating after getting past the chopper? The brakes didn't work after being fine just few moments before that? Yeah, right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil weasel Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 And what about Big Smoke's driving in "Reuniting of Families"? It makes no sense. Why did he drive into the alleyway with a chopper? Why did he decide to go through? Why was he accelerating after getting past the chopper? The brakes didn't work after being fine just few moments before that? Yeah, right... It happens, about a month ago I was pulling into a parking space. Just fine. But, when I came out of the store a half-hour later the pedal went to the floor as I was shifting to back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osho Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I feel like OP is lying. Personally, I didn't find Smoke suspicious nor the impression that there was a betrayal angle to the story. I'd be lying to myself if I said I knew Big Smoke was gonna betray. Ryder definitely appeared suspicious as the story progressed giving me an impression that there's something wrong about his character, and I wasn't really surprised to see Ryder in the mission 'The Green Sabre', turning out to be a f*cking asshole. What really shocked me, and upsetting to find out was Big Smoke turning out to be a traitor, as well ??? It was only on repeat playthroughs of the story that I started to see the hidden clues regarding Big Smoke that does show hints about his involvement with Tenpenny and signs for his betrayal, but otherwise I'd so much focused on his funny personality that I don't think its so easy to predict about his other side. Big Smoke was a lot more caring towards CJ during the early events in the story and as such I find it hard to believe any one claiming that they already figured it out that he would betray CJ, unless they have seen the Introduction video which anyways gives major spoilers to the story. I don't remember even the early previews to the game gave much details about Big Smoke or Ryder's character that would give any hints about betrayal when playing for the first time on release day. Cutter De Blanc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey_95 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) He definitely fooled me, f*cking Smoke! Great character though,one of the best of the series. I totally saw Ryder's betrayal coming and was actually disappointed because that was predictable, they wasted his character. Especially since CJ doesn't care about him, its always BIG SMOKE. His death was lame too. Edited May 5, 2016 by Journey_95 Mister Pink and 5YearsOnEastCoast 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul723 Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 He definitely fooled me, f*cking Smoke! Great character though,one of the best of the series. I totally saw Ryder's betrayal coming and was actually disappointed because that was predictable, they wasted his character. Especially since CJ doesn't care about him, its always BIG SMOKE. His death was lame too. Yeah. It just seemed that R* just had no idea what to do with him after you leave LS and made him a traitor randomly. Then after his death, nobody ever mentions him, and Sweet doesn't even ask about him when CJ breaks him out of jail. It was as if nobody ever knew a person named Ryder. Thicc Romney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil weasel Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 IT may take 2 to five years to develop a game. The Story is written first and laid out Prior to the Codes and Artists starting work. They do not "wing" it as they go along. Rockstar knew exactly what they wanted all through the story. They might have deleted some "chrome" and maybe unanswerable problem before the deadline, but they did know what was going on. Thicc Romney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keano Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Back in 2004, I didn't see it but playing it now there was plenty of hints such as the Tenpenny and Pulaski visiting his house and how he was very sharp with CJ's questions following "Wrong Side of The Tracks" Ryder shocked me though. Him and CJ didn't see eye to eye but I felt when it mattered, Ryder would've had CJ and Sweet's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Hernandez Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 (edited) Back in 2004, I didn't see it but playing it now there was plenty of hints such as the Tenpenny and Pulaski visiting his house and how he was very sharp with CJ's questions following "Wrong Side of The Tracks" Ryder shocked me though. Him and CJ didn't see eye to eye but I felt when it mattered, Ryder would've had CJ and Sweet's back. CJ and Ryder were, as TV Tropes would put it, Vitriolic Best Buds. Even though they insulted each other, they still had occasional laughs Everest now and then. I always saw CJ and Ryder's relationship similar to Sonic and Knuckles in the Sonic games/TV shows. I really didn't see any hints to Ryder's betrayal, unlike Smoke. The only hint regarding Ryder's betrayal I can think of is the mission where he and Smoke drove away when CJ went inside the hotel for his brother. Edited May 6, 2016 by Henry Hernandez Honker1944 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomuchinvigilation Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Yeah. It just seemed that R* just had no idea what to do with him after you leave LS and made him a traitor randomly. Then after his death, nobody ever mentions him, and Sweet doesn't even ask about him when CJ breaks him out of jail. It was as if nobody ever knew a person named Ryder. CJ actually talks about him with Cesar in the cutscene before "Yay Ka-Boom-Boom", but I agree, Ryder is almost completely ignored for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMack20 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I can't really say I expected Smoke to turn into a traitor, but I will say that he seemed suspicious since the start of the game. The guy tossed the baseball bat to a picture of CJ's mom for crying out loud, and with him being all nice to CJ, that told me he was up to something. I didn't expect it, but at the same time, I really wasn't all that shocked of Smoke's betrayal. Ryder on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pink Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 He completely fooled me but then again I was always quite naive when I was younger. ＲＵＢＢΣＲ░Ｊ♢ＨＮＮＹ （スオッ） Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femme Fatale Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I never saw it coming tbh, I suspected he and Ryder would die, but as heroes, not traitors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancerator Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) When I first played the game, I knew that Big Smoke had something else to offer apart from Ryder and Sweet, they looked cool but Big Smoke had that special vibe of "something is gonna happen". I didn't know that he would be one of the main antagonists from the game, I was shocked, what suprised me the most was Ryder, he was being loyal to the gang until the Green Sabre for no reason, despite the fact I spoiled my self when I was a child because I couldn't complete that lousy mission of Cesar Vialpando. The reason of this is because he was giving weird and kind of nosense missions, his first two missions about picking OG Loc and killing that Vago were OK, but then, who would ever see something like chasing a couple of random Vagos dealers on a train or killing a few russians in the middle of a public zone? Edited October 28, 2016 by Still Madd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalominoFreak Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well you got some good points and it all would make sense. But when i played it back then i never really paid too much attention on Smoke so his betrayel kinda surprised me anyway And i think the drive-thru thing was more like a gag to show what a fatass smoke is. Lancerator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ10 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 In my defence, when i first got this game (2006 or 2007?) i was rather 6-7 or 8 (depending on time of the year). All i cared about then was taking it in turns with my friend OR Having fun in 2 player. I got the game at that time too... But, i was small to notice all the clues mentioned here... P.S - Parent's in india just get whatever game their children wants... they have no control over it... but once we play the game.. we're doomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfOfAKebab Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yeah, it was really cool to play through the game a second time and notice all of the subtle hints you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muvdafucupouttahere Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I think it's safe to say that in retrospect, R* really didn't make Smoke's betrayal that much subtle at all. Evil empire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPMovies Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 I'm replaying San Andreas for the first time in years and agree that Big Smoke's betrayal is actually pretty obvious from the get go for the reasons you said. I was 9 years old in 04 and was shocked when we learned about Ryder/Big Smoke but in hindsight it's actually pretty obvious. Evil empire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerdopalo Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 5 hours ago, SPMovies said: I'm replaying San Andreas for the first time in years and agree that Big Smoke's betrayal is actually pretty obvious from the get go for the reasons you said. I was 9 years old in 04 and was shocked when we learned about Ryder/Big Smoke but in hindsight it's actually pretty obvious. me was tinking tat ryder only was betray because he act mean to cj big smoke act good to cj so he maked me tink that he was the good guy in the game but now me tink ryder betrayal was written bad sorry for bad english im is italian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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