9 Year old girl accidentally kills instructor with uzi

[GunWrath]

After some investigating by actual firearm instructors, comes to find out this guy just recently obtained a carry permit and things of that nature, so he really isn't an expert in firearms or should have even been an instructor by any means. But the parents should have let the girl work her way up to adjust to certain recoil. I don't fault the parents really.. because there have been cases where minors can fire weapons just as great as responsible adults but for an inexperience instructor to hand over a fully automatic machine pistol for a first time shooter was a stupid, stupid move.

 

Much like the videos you see where people (mostly women) shoot a Desert Eagle for the first time and it doesn't end well, this happens to males too.. but guns aren't the issue here. It's inexperience and irresponsible people that are the issue. What's sad about all this is that they'll use this in their anti-gun debates for months and months to come rather than really focus on what the issue is- letting inexperienced shooters teach firearm safety and shooting practices.

[Andreas]

It doesn't matter that kids can be just as capable of holding a gun as an adult. The fact of the matter is that the parents were irresponsible enough to let their kid carry a gun- an automatic gun, I might add. And then, it even turns out that the firearm instructor wasn't very experienced, which doesn't really help. Now the girl has to live with the thought that she has killed someone, and it wasn't even her fault. That is the truly sad thing about all this.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Andreas

[Brad]

But the parents should have let the girl work her way up to adjust to certain recoil. I don't fault the parents really..

 

That's a contradiction.

 

But I'd go further and say you shouldn't give weapons, regardless of it being in a controlled area, to children irrespective of how a few children are able to fire weapons at the same competence as adults.

[I cucked Alex Jones]

 

But the parents should have let the girl work her way up to adjust to certain recoil. I don't fault the parents really..

 

That's a contradiction.

 

But I'd go further and say you shouldn't give weapons, regardless of it being in a controlled area, to children irrespective of how a few children are able to fire weapons at the same competence as adults.

 

Are you denying my child's second amendment right?

[Payne Killer]

Just don't let a kid use a fully automatic weapon, i mean look at her little arms, they can't handle that much recoil.

[Affalterbach]

What a c*nt.

Those guns are so powerfull, he should know that.

[Danz.]

I wonder what's wrong with American parents...

Edited August 28, 2014 by Danz.

[Payne Killer]

I wonder what's wrong with American parents...

Some are just so stupid.

PS: i love your signature, el chavo del ocho.

[El Dildo]

I don't fault the parents really.. because there have been cases where minors can fire weapons just as great as responsible adults

you obviously don't have children.

 

there's no one to blame here except for the parents.

some of the blame goes to Charles Vacca for not ensuring proper grip on a weapon with insane recoil, but most of the blame goes to the parents. because this little girl would never have been in this stupid and unnecessary situation had her parents not been casual gun-nuts.

Edited August 28, 2014 by El_Diablo

[GunWrath]

I do have a child and when the time comes, I'll take him shooting just like millions of other parents do.

 

The parents are to blame to a SMALL degree but again, not everyone thinks or will do the same things we would have. They probably thought everything would be fine being they had an instructor on the range.. so you really can't put all the blame on the parents. They were giving their daughter an opportunity to do something other than just play with Barbie dolls and hairbrushes. The entire fault lies with the instructor for believing a first time shooter would be able to handle an automatic, especially a 9yr old that has no knowledge of what recoil is or just how powerful a machine pistol can be.

 

I guess you've never seen competition shooting or have attended a competition? There are all age ranges.. if taught properly, a minor can handle and shoot just as responsibly as any well-trained adult. That's why I don't put all the fault on the parents.. sure, they let their kid shoot an automatic for the first time, but like I said before, they should have had her shoot her way up the ladder and get used to different weapon types and fire modes. You can't just hand a first time shooter an M240B and expect them to control it decently or understand how powerful they are. But they went ahead and let the girl shoot because they had trust in the instructor, there is nothing wrong with that. We should trust our instructors because they're supposed to have EXPERIENCE and know the proper safety protocols. It's just an unfortunate event. The fault lies within the instructor and his inexperience not the parents man.

 

I feel so sorry for the girl because that's a monkey that will never get off your back.

[mareepx]

I can't f*cking belive that they used live ammo for that. I guess 'Idiocracy' is coming true.

[El Dildo]

The parents are to blame to a SMALL degree but again, not everyone thinks or will do the same things we would have. They probably thought everything would be fine

this is some horrifically poor logic.

 

just because the parents "thought" everything would be fine doesn't mean they're alleviated from blame.

are you insane?

 

you didn't refute my point at all.

this little girl would never have been in this stupid and unnecessary situation had her parents not been casual gun-nuts.

 

I do have a child and when the time comes, I'll take him shooting just like millions of other parents do.

are you going to take them @ 9 years old and give them a fully automatic submachine gun?

[Danz.]

"Hell yeah, let's give guns to kids because.. f*ck, why not? Shooting is cool and there's nothing wrong with handling a weapon since that age. We all do that!"

 

-Instructor gets killed by a little girl whose family allowed her to train there;

-Blames him for not doing his job right.

 

[/flawed american logic]

Edited August 28, 2014 by Danz.

[GunWrath]

lol

 

My logic is poor? Why? Because I'm pro-gun?.. I'm not expert by any means in all forms of weapons but I can handle just about every reasonable firearm out there, why? Because I know what to expect and I've been trained properly. This girl wasn't trained to shoot automatic handguns or rifles at all, yet the instructor handed her an automatic with a full magazine and a f*cking machine pistol of all choices? That shows the inexperience and stupidity of the instructor, not the parents. The parents are at small blame for trusting an instructor with little to no skills in firearms but aren't at full blame when a properly trained and experience instructor would have known better than to handle that girl that type of weapon.

 

But yes, if my son is trained up until 9yrs of age and has experience with automatics, I'll let him rip as many rounds as I can afford, brother. Because he was properly trained and knows his skill level as well as I would. Parents aren't to blame for mistakes on ranges like this, unless of course her parents were the ones training her, then it would be.. but they weren't. They were merely observing an instructor let a child shoot a weapon, the wrong choice of weapon for her skill set.

[Danz.]

lol

 

My logic is poor? Why? Because I'm pro-gun?.. I'm not expert by any means in all forms of weapons but I can handle just about every reasonable firearm out there, why? Because I know what to expect and I've been trained properly. This girl wasn't trained to shoot automatic handguns or rifles at all, yet the instructor handed her an automatic with a full magazine and a f*cking machine pistol of all choices? That shows the inexperience and stupidity of the instructor, not the parents. The parents are at small blame for trusting an instructor with little to no skills in firearms but aren't at full blame when a properly trained and experience instructor would have known better than to handle that girl that type of weapon.

 

But yes, if my son is trained up until 9yrs of age and has experience with automatics, I'll let him rip as many rounds as I can afford, brother. Because he was properly trained and knows his skill level as well as I would. Parents aren't to blame for mistakes on ranges like this, unless of course her parents were the ones training her, then it would be.. but they weren't. They were merely observing an instructor let a child shoot a weapon, the wrong choice of weapon for her skill set.

 

 

I'm sorry, but that's basically what you're saying...

 

-------------------------------

Thing is, kids/minors shouldn't be given guns regardless of their skills using them.

 

It's all related to maturity.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Danz.

[Abel.]

This is a horrible tragedy. The death of the instructor is tragic, but the trauma and guilt that this girl and her parents will suffer for the rest of their lives is just as bad.

 

 

I've always liked firearms and shot a variety of guns from the age of 13. Accidents never happened because I was always instructed to respect the weapon and adhere to the rudiments of firearm safety (always treat a gun as though it's loaded, finger away from trigger guard until ready to fire, never leave a loaded gun unattended, and so on). If I were to have a son, I'd be happy to teach him to shoot from the age of 12 or so, just as GW said above, assuming the boy were mentally sound and physically capable.

 

 

However, this girl had no place firing an SMG. The fact that the instructor began with a single shot, then basically just said "right, full auto now" is asinine. Also, If you insist on allowing a small girl of nine years to fire an Uzi, then surely you'd ensure it has a stock so she could fire it from the shoulder to control the recoil. The whole incident stinks of improper instruction. From my point of view, I'd call the parents irresponsible, but then again they probably thought that their daughter was in good hands. Finally, I'm baffled as to why a nine year old girl would express much, or any, interest in firing automatic weapons.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Failure

[Skeever]

Very sad story. Glad the kid wasn't physically hurt (although mentally traumatized for the rest of her life, no doubt...), but I also feel bad for the instructor; he was killed in an instant, having no time to react to the gun swaying in his direction.

Seemed like a nice, passionate guy, but he really should have known better than to have handed a 9 year old an automatic Uzi... even if the parents insisted that she shoot one, he should've refused.

[make total destroy]

Why the f*ck does a 9-year-old need to know how to fire an uzi anyway? I learned how to shoot when I was 11, but nobody was about to hand me a f*cking submachine gun.

 

 

.. I'm not expert by any means in all forms of weapons but I can handle just about every reasonable firearm out there, why?

Because you're not 9-years-old?

Edited August 28, 2014 by ShootPeopleNotDope

[mr quick]

Cops don't carry guns here, nor can citizens. On average, there are two shooting incidents a year, and the total amount of shots fired for each year has never surpassed the double-digits.... strange coincidence

[Graven]

Cops don't carry guns here, nor can citizens. On average, there are two shooting incidents a year, and the total amount of shots fired for each year has never surpassed the double-digits.... strange coincidence

It´s sense, not coincidence.

[LightningLord]

I learned how to fire a sniper rifle at a young age(10 maybe? Don't remember) but I was never going to be given a full auto firearm.

 

 

Both the parents and instructor are to blame. Parents want a little girl to shoot an SMG and the instructor didn't help the girl. Hopefully it won't ruin her life knowing she killed someone.

[LightningLord]

Seemed like a nice, passionate guy, but he really should have known better than to have handed a 9 year old an automatic Uzi... even if the parents insisted that she shoot one, he should've refused.

I agree.

[GunWrath]

Why the f*ck does a 9-year-old need to know how to fire an uzi anyway? I learned how to shoot when I was 11, but nobody was about to hand me a f*cking submachine gun.

 

 

.. I'm not expert by any means in all forms of weapons but I can handle just about every reasonable firearm out there, why?

Because you're not 9-years-old?

No, because I was properly trained in firearms, safety and maneuvers. People see 9yrs old as infants on this board for some odd reason. At 9yrs old, you can properly shoot a weapon, be aware of it's safety and how to use one if trained correctly. Obviously this girl had no training and even the most common-sense would tell me I should use a ghost method with her hands to ensure she doesn't lose control. Not to mention, I wouldn't have given her a full magazine either.

 

Proper (ghost method):

 

Improper:

 

"Here ya go darlin, now squeeze" .. the guy had no clue what he was doing and safety rules were non-existent here.

 

By the way, the first picture is of a 9yr old competitive shooter.. so yes, even a 9yr old is competent enough to use a firearm.

Edited August 28, 2014 by GunWrath

[Ai®a©ob®a]

Just don't let a kid use a fully automatic weapon, i mean look at her little arms, they can't handle that much recoil.

Yup, Hell sometimes a grown man can't even handle the recoil.

 

I remember when i was going though the academy we had to fire all sort of difference weapons to get to know how they work, how to fire them, unload them ect.

 

Some guns have a major recoil-kick the first time i shot a 12-guage it kicked me so hard i almost fell on my ass but the FTO caught me and restabled my balance and showed me a better stance when shooting and it worked.

 

My whole family are firm believers in the right to bare arms.

 

All of the boys in my family were taught how to shoot BB guns as young as 6 and as we got older to where we could go hunting we transitioned to 22. Hunting rifles and even though we asert out right to bare arms in our family we aren't fanatics and we had VERY strict rules about guns.

 

Nobody under 16 was allowed to even look at a gun without an adult present let alone fire it and if we did we lost our gun for a whole year which meant no hunting trips.

 

My uncles were combat vets of Vietnam & Desert Storm and they had semi and full auto weapons but you weren't allowed to fire them until you turned 18 and that wasn't a state law but a family law and it was strictly enforced.

 

I have several guns in my home two handguns one is a service pistol, 12 gauge and a M-16.

 

My eldest daughter knows how to use the 9mm and her hunting rifle and as she gets older i will teach her how to use bigger guns but i won't let her use anything that i don't think she could handle on her own.

 

The blame lays both with the parents and the instructor from my understanding he was by no means an expert and has just opened his gun range when this incident occurred and when you mix guns with an inexperience teacher something is bound to happen and such as this situation someone was bound to eventually get hurt and in this case killed.

 

But the parents hold part of the blame too even if the parents aren't gun "experts" it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a gun like the Uzi on full auto is sometimes too powerful to a grown man and more so for a little petite child and they should have known better.

Edited August 28, 2014 by AiraCobra

[Doc Rikowski]

In my opinion we all have to agree to disagree on one thing in here, otherwise the discussion will become sterile.

If we start to debate over US gun policy and gun culture we're not going anywhere.

Personally I'm against it but then again it's not my country nor my constitution and I don't live there.

So ultimately I can disagree with all of the above but I'm not going

to try to convince Americans to embrace my personal view on their country, constitution and society.

 

I think though that we can agree on one thing: all of the adults in that situation are responsible.

I think the biggest responsibility goes to the parents cause even if all the possible safety measures were implemented

there's always a serious risk in handling a firearm. Especially if you are a kid.

Accidents do happen even when all safety measures are implemented.

So there is always a certain degree of irresponsibility when you consciously decide to put your child in a risky situation.

If we don't want to call it irresponsibility then let's call it simply a conscious risk taking choice.

But the risk is implicit when firearms are used. That's not even debatable.

I've seen accidents with firearms happening in the army supposedly by professionals.

 

My biggest question though is, how on Earth is possible that it is legal for kids to use firearms in a shooting range?

Excuse my ignorance but is it really legal in the US?

If the answer is yes then I don't get it.

Ok, 2nd amendment etc, right to own a gun, gun culture... I can understand all of that. I disagree with it but I get it.

 

What I don't understand is that how can it be legal for a 9y old to use a Uzi.

I guess driving at 10 and drinking at 11 should be also legal then, following such criteria.

[Sean O'God]

She was training to use a gun. Guns are created to kill. Mission accomplished.

 

But seriously, I feel sorry for her because she has to live with the fact that she killed someone for the rest of her life. It just goes to show how easy it is to die and how it could happen at any moment. Just take this time to be thankful to be alive.

[make total destroy]

 

Why the f*ck does a 9-year-old need to know how to fire an uzi anyway? I learned how to shoot when I was 11, but nobody was about to hand me a f*cking submachine gun.

 

 

.. I'm not expert by any means in all forms of weapons but I can handle just about every reasonable firearm out there, why?

Because you're not 9-years-old?

No, because I was properly trained in firearms, safety and maneuvers. People see 9yrs old as infants on this board for some odd reason. At 9yrs old, you can properly shoot a weapon, be aware of it's safety and how to use one if trained correctly. Obviously this girl had no training and even the most common-sense would tell me I should use a ghost method with her hands to ensure she doesn't lose control. Not to mention, I wouldn't have given her a full magazine either.

 

Proper (ghost method):

 

Improper:

 

"Here ya go darlin, now squeeze" .. the guy had no clue what he was doing and safety rules were non-existent here.

 

By the way, the first picture is of a 9yr old competitive shooter.. so yes, even a 9yr old is competent enough to use a firearm.

 

I'm not disputing that you could teach a 9-year-old to fire a weapon--whether or not it's a good idea is a different story--but you sure as f*ck can't expect them to handle an automatic weapon, no matter their supposed skill level.

[Creed Bratton]

lol

 

My logic is poor? Why? Because I'm pro-gun?

No. Because you're pro-stupid.

Edited August 28, 2014 by The Yokel

[Graven]

She was training to use a gun. Guns are created to kill. Mission accomplished.

 

But seriously, I feel sorry for her because she has to live with the fact that she killed someone for the rest of her life. It just goes to show how easy it is to die and how it could happen at any moment. Just take this time to be thankful to be alive.

She was training to use a gun? Did she want to learn how to use a gun? Or did somebody else want her to learn to use a gun?

That´s the real question.

[Creed Bratton]

 

She was training to use a gun. Guns are created to kill. Mission accomplished.

 

But seriously, I feel sorry for her because she has to live with the fact that she killed someone for the rest of her life. It just goes to show how easy it is to die and how it could happen at any moment. Just take this time to be thankful to be alive.

She was training to use a gun? Did she want to learn how to use a gun? Or did somebody else want her to learn to use a gun?

That´s the real question.

Not really. Even if she was the one who asked to learn how to use a gun, parents should exercise some f*ckin' common sense and say no to an obviously dumb idea.