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The Biggest Problems of Rockstar and the AAA Games Industry


Drunken Cowboy

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Drunken Cowboy

I recently posted this on another post, but I figured I'd copy-paste it because I thought it could be discussed more.

These are the reasons I thought GTA V, while you could still call a well-developed game, failed to meet lots of fan expectations, including my own.

 

Of course, they're just my opinions. Even if you don't see any of these in GTA V I hope we can wake up to these in the gaming industry in general and push for better quality games.

 

Pre-Order Bonuses / Exclusive Editions

A small vice, but a destructive one nonetheless. Several different tiers of pre-order bonuses are meant to engender a feeling of urgency into a gullible audience with entirely too much money (f*cking children) to pay over double the price of the game... for what? Extra clothing and vehicles? Minorly tweaked weapons? A hat? Stuff drawn up by the art department in five minutes? In reality: cheap horsesh*t nowhere near worth the extra money AND the risk that the game might not be up to snuff.

Copious Emphasis on Update and DLC / Pay2Win

If you are going to divert so much focus away from the single player campaign to promote multiplayer, then actually build up a functioning and coherent multiplayer. The multiplayer was released in a miserably broken state over a week after the game's release, and it was a mere shell of its potential. Numerous DLC packs followed, as did basic missions that support variety. The certered feature that arguably was supposed to make the multiplayer isn't even out nearly a year after the game's release. Why should they release it? They have your pre-order money for their unfinished games. I will give R* credit for releasing the DLC packs for free, that's cool on their part. Of course, they make that money back. After the purchases of a $60 release come the cash cards. Jobs are deliberately nerfed to force their sale. Nearly everything in GTA Online that is remotely fun is dependent on cash: weapons, ammunition, vehicles, fixing/upgrading/insuring vehicles, a place to store those vehicles, dying, all add up to monumental cost. What do you do? Endless grinding made near impossible, exploit their broken game for millions of virtual payola causing hacker crackdowns that effect a majority of players who did not even participate in exploits, or buy cash cards.

Abuse of Workforce / Out-of-Touch Developers

While all we have are a few worker testimonials, I think it's safe to assume that Rockstar is no different than those EA-type companies. Given their monstrous size and external prestige, these companies can treat their employees however they want without worrying about running out of a work force. Numerous employee testimonials reveal R* to be a hostile work environment: grueling overseers, tight deadlines, lack of proper tools for the trade, and no PR to go to. How can you make your best work when Sam Houser's iron fist is ready to come down? This is what kills the soul of games. V lacked a real feel, real writing, real originality, pressured workers just had to make a game that sells and had to meet a deadline, not that that always works out, considering the several months the game was delayed. When you're forced by your bosses to just make something that sells, you never are allowed to apply something new that you feel would be different and revolutionary, and worse, you cannot communicate well with your fan-base. You know what an excellent company like VALVe does? They read forums. They watch matches of their games. They read Reddit posts. They go into their own games in disguise and record the players' thoughts. They take time to assess a game and they care about the results. What does Rockstar go on? Sales figures. 10-year-olds like supercars and "420 SW4G" Call of Duty bullsh*t. A tasteless, gullible consumer-base prevents the development of a good game. Who cares about heists, about fun and rewarding missions, or about implementing something actually crime related when something easy and gimmicky like the Hipster Pack can take some popularity? That brings me to my next point:

Stupid Gimmicks / YouTube Friendly Games

(I'mma just copy-paste another post I made elsewhere... I like doing that)

Games try to be outrageous and silly so they'll get lots of coverage and "let's play"s to get plenty of free advertisement.

Think Goat Simulator. Sure, it was pretty funny and f*cking wild the first 15 minutes, but I wanted my god damn $10 back when I realized it was just a buggy mess that exploded in popularity virally before.

GTA YouTubers can only really entertain and capitalize on the worst parts of the game to sell it: exploits, bugs and physics exploits, silly SHENANIGANS, trolling, montages,

You can't really become a YouTube game based on a great story-arch or an immersive world. GTA IV didn't have many f*ck-around appearances on YouTube beyond the occasional stunt video. HOWEVER, it still saw plenty of videos through Machinimas and its powerful story-telling potential. The only community drawn in by wild, sh*tty "Let's Play" pewdiepie types are ten-year-old little dipsh*ts. While there's nothing inherently wrong with younger players at its core idea (other than the fact they're violating the terms of the ESRB), it generates a whole, miserable atmosphere of little tools trying to replicate what they saw their favorite YouTubber do. They use their parents' cards to buy sh*tty cash cards and colorful but shallow DLC, the games industry realizes they can just release half-finished games and skin packs and make more than a game they put three times the effort into to dignify it, and the cycle keeps going.

Hype / False Depiction of the Product

Remember your excitement when the trailers rolled out? Beautiful lighting, shading, rendering, textures, frame-rate. The world looked alive. Many models dotted the streets. What did we get? Low-resolution textures, sub-par lighting, mindless and emotionless peds, many trees and other foliage removed in-game where they were in the trailers. I honestly doubt they'll add any of it back on the next-gen re-releases. The trailers also depicted pretty much ALL of the very limited heists in the game. I had little surprise and discovery while playing. Just shove everything in the appetizer so you laud over the restaurant and can't tell how lacking the main course is. They sure played the nostalgia card with Franklin, cutting scenes from his two Grove Street-style gangbanger missions to get the old GTA fans hooked, just so their new green gangsta could sit in his yuppie house on the cliff running bitch errands for the government. Not to mention such limited amounts of the game were being rolled out, letting speculation run wild.

Rockstar, I've always looked to your products when I praised your company so much. You have amazed me with the 3D GTA's, your lesser-acknowledged Bully and Manhunt, and my favorites were even your recent releases of Max Payne 3, GTA IV, LA Noire, and of course, Red Dead Redemption. All those games took chances and received amazing praise for it. GTA V sold well and did fine critically, but so did the post MW1- Call of Duties for a while. The gaming world is in collective inebriation that "This is Rockstar we're taking about, they couldn't have made a less-than-satisfactory game!" If you continue making sh*tty, lazy games with your out-of-touch and whipped staff, then I can only hope your success and prestige in the gaming world tapers off immediately.

Or, what is more likely going to happen, you will be one of those f*cking EA sh*tcocks who exploit the lowest common denominator for the almighty dollar.

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hornedturtle

My bigest problem is they try to apeal to too many people.

I want an rpg with choice over voice acting.

I want rpg elements out of my fps.

 

I want games to be made for the players and not the damn reviewers.

 

I could go on but I will hold off for now

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TheFunkyBunch

I recently posted this on another post, but I figured I'd copy-paste it because I thought it could be discussed more.

These are the reasons I thought GTA V, while you could still call a well-developed game, failed to meet lots of fan expectations, including my own.

 

Of course, they're just my opinions. Even if you don't see any of these in GTA V I hope we can wake up to these in the gaming industry in general and push for better quality games.

 

Pre-Order Bonuses / Exclusive Editions

A small vice, but a destructive one nonetheless. Several different tiers of pre-order bonuses are meant to engender a feeling of urgency into a gullible audience with entirely too much money (f*cking children) to pay over double the price of the game... for what? Extra clothing and vehicles? Minorly tweaked weapons? A hat? Stuff drawn up by the art department in five minutes? In reality: cheap horsesh*t nowhere near worth the extra money AND the risk that the game might not be up to snuff.

Copious Emphasis on Update and DLC / Pay2Win

If you are going to divert so much focus away from the single player campaign to promote multiplayer, then actually build up a functioning and coherent multiplayer. The multiplayer was released in a miserably broken state over a week after the game's release, and it was a mere shell of its potential. Numerous DLC packs followed, as did basic missions that support variety. The certered feature that arguably was supposed to make the multiplayer isn't even out nearly a year after the game's release. Why should they release it? They have your pre-order money for their unfinished games. I will give R* credit for releasing the DLC packs for free, that's cool on their part. Of course, they make that money back. After the purchases of a $60 release come the cash cards. Jobs are deliberately nerfed to force their sale. Nearly everything in GTA Online that is remotely fun is dependent on cash: weapons, ammunition, vehicles, fixing/upgrading/insuring vehicles, a place to store those vehicles, dying, all add up to monumental cost. What do you do? Endless grinding made near impossible, exploit their broken game for millions of virtual payola causing hacker crackdowns that effect a majority of players who did not even participate in exploits, or buy cash cards.

Abuse of Workforce / Out-of-Touch Developers

While all we have are a few worker testimonials, I think it's safe to assume that Rockstar is no different than those EA-type companies. Given their monstrous size and external prestige, these companies can treat their employees however they want without worrying about running out of a work force. Numerous employee testimonials reveal R* to be a hostile work environment: grueling overseers, tight deadlines, lack of proper tools for the trade, and no PR to go to. How can you make your best work when Sam Houser's iron fist is ready to come down? This is what kills the soul of games. V lacked a real feel, real writing, real originality, pressured workers just had to make a game that sells and had to meet a deadline, not that that always works out, considering the several months the game was delayed. When you're forced by your bosses to just make something that sells, you never are allowed to apply something new that you feel would be different and revolutionary, and worse, you cannot communicate well with your fan-base. You know what an excellent company like VALVe does? They read forums. They watch matches of their games. They read Reddit posts. They go into their own games in disguise and record the players' thoughts. They take time to assess a game and they care about the results. What does Rockstar go on? Sales figures. 10-year-olds like supercars and "420 SW4G" Call of Duty bullsh*t. A tasteless, gullible consumer-base prevents the development of a good game. Who cares about heists, about fun and rewarding missions, or about implementing something actually crime related when something easy and gimmicky like the Hipster Pack can take some popularity? That brings me to my next point:

Stupid Gimmicks / YouTube Friendly Games

(I'mma just copy-paste another post I made elsewhere... I like doing that)

Games try to be outrageous and silly so they'll get lots of coverage and "let's play"s to get plenty of free advertisement.

Think Goat Simulator. Sure, it was pretty funny and f*cking wild the first 15 minutes, but I wanted my god damn $10 back when I realized it was just a buggy mess that exploded in popularity virally before.

GTA YouTubers can only really entertain and capitalize on the worst parts of the game to sell it: exploits, bugs and physics exploits, silly SHENANIGANS, trolling, montages,

You can't really become a YouTube game based on a great story-arch or an immersive world. GTA IV didn't have many f*ck-around appearances on YouTube beyond the occasional stunt video. HOWEVER, it still saw plenty of videos through Machinimas and its powerful story-telling potential. The only community drawn in by wild, sh*tty "Let's Play" pewdiepie types are ten-year-old little dipsh*ts. While there's nothing inherently wrong with younger players at its core idea (other than the fact they're violating the terms of the ESRB), it generates a whole, miserable atmosphere of little tools trying to replicate what they saw their favorite YouTubber do. They use their parents' cards to buy sh*tty cash cards and colorful but shallow DLC, the games industry realizes they can just release half-finished games and skin packs and make more than a game they put three times the effort into to dignify it, and the cycle keeps going.

Hype / False Depiction of the Product

Remember your excitement when the trailers rolled out? Beautiful lighting, shading, rendering, textures, frame-rate. The world looked alive. Many models dotted the streets. What did we get? Low-resolution textures, sub-par lighting, mindless and emotionless peds, many trees and other foliage removed in-game where they were in the trailers. I honestly doubt they'll add any of it back on the next-gen re-releases. The trailers also depicted pretty much ALL of the very limited heists in the game. I had little surprise and discovery while playing. Just shove everything in the appetizer so you laud over the restaurant and can't tell how lacking the main course is. They sure played the nostalgia card with Franklin, cutting scenes from his two Grove Street-style gangbanger missions to get the old GTA fans hooked, just so their new green gangsta could sit in his yuppie house on the cliff running bitch errands for the government. Not to mention such limited amounts of the game were being rolled out, letting speculation run wild.

Rockstar, I've always looked to your products when I praised your company so much. You have amazed me with the 3D GTA's, your lesser-acknowledged Bully and Manhunt, and my favorites were even your recent releases of Max Payne 3, GTA IV, LA Noire, and of course, Red Dead Redemption. All those games took chances and received amazing praise for it. GTA V sold well and did fine critically, but so did the post MW1- Call of Duties for a while. The gaming world is in collective inebriation that "This is Rockstar we're taking about, they couldn't have made a less-than-satisfactory game!" If you continue making sh*tty, lazy games with your out-of-touch and whipped staff, then I can only hope your success and prestige in the gaming world tapers off immediately.

Or, what is more likely going to happen, you will be one of those f*cking EA sh*tcocks who exploit the lowest common denominator for the almighty dollar.

Dude let me just say you Bring up Some Valid Points and i Admire the Passion that has gone into this but don't you ever feel that you might just be being a Little Harsh On V ? you Treat it Like the Antichrist.

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Drunken Cowboy

 

 

Dude let me just say you Bring up Some Valid Points and i Admire the Passion that has gone into this but don't you ever feel that you might just be being a Little Harsh On V ? you Treat it Like the Antichrist.

 

 

What I'm saying here is about more than just V, V made me realize it even more and I thought it was the best vessel to convey my points to the GTA Forums.

I'd say the past dozen triple A titles I bought share the same criticisms.

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I couldn't agree more. GTA Online has become Rockstar's primary concern and that's OK as long as you take your time to develop and release worthy and meaningful content (e.g. GTA IV's EFLC). What we see is the complete opposite, that's, every month I see unworthy, silly and over the top social commentary (e.g. I'm not a hipster) content added to the online world. Apparently, Rockstar has lost their charm with this behavior and they're increasingly becoming just another publisher who likes to fill the online mode with uninspired content. That's definitely a downhill direction, in my view, especially when coming from an inspired background as Red Dead Redemption.

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Pre-Order Bonuses / Exclusive Editions

A small vice, but a destructive one nonetheless. Several different tiers of pre-order bonuses are meant to engender a feeling of urgency into a gullible audience with entirely too much money (f*cking children) to pay over double the price of the game... for what? Extra clothing and vehicles? Minorly tweaked weapons? A hat? Stuff drawn up by the art department in five minutes? In reality: cheap horsesh*t nowhere near worth the extra money AND the risk that the game might not be up to snuff

 

.

Agreed which is why I've never bothered with them, Complete rip off

 

 

 

 

Copious Emphasis on Update and DLC / Pay2Win

If you are going to divert so much focus away from the single player campaign to promote multiplayer, then actually build up a functioning and coherent multiplayer. The multiplayer was released in a miserably broken state over a week after the game's release, and it was a mere shell of its potential. Numerous DLC packs followed, as did basic missions that support variety. The certered feature that arguably was supposed to make the multiplayer isn't even out nearly a year after the game's release. Why should they release it? They have your pre-order money for their unfinished games. I will give R* credit for releasing the DLC packs for free, that's cool on their part. Of course, they make that money back. After the purchases of a $60 release come the cash cards. Jobs are deliberately nerfed to force their sale. Nearly everything in GTA Online that is remotely fun is dependent on cash: weapons, ammunition, vehicles, fixing/upgrading/insuring vehicles, a place to store those vehicles, dying, all add up to monumental cost. What do you do? Endless grinding made near impossible, exploit their broken game for millions of virtual payola causing hacker crackdowns that effect a majority of players who did not even participate in exploits, or buy cash cards.

 

 

Yep, I like playing tennis but no one online will play with me, Besides it could of been done better it's only small things like making the court bigger so it doesn't feel like table tennis ect . Golf is perfect and sometimes I do get a game with other players but it really is hit or miss no pun intended.

 

Parachuting has the same problem

 

My point is they have 3 great games that could provide endless hours of competition but they don't realize not everyone is Michael Jordon at video games. This isn't an over protective mother thing, I believe more people would take more part in those activities if their were weight class's, Think of it like boxing or ufc only in video games it's not weight it's gaming skill that gets you put into a division.

 

I'd be in the bottom category for sure, The way it works is if i'm playing someone in tennis and I win that gets recorded and the idea is overtime i'll be placed into a '' pool'' against other players with simular win/loss records. I would than be competing against that group, Have 10 people in the group all randoms and the person with the best stats is champ, If their champ for a certain length of time they move up a division and fight bigger dogs in the hope of getting that belt.

 

This idea of mine has a MUTHERf*ckING TON of kinks in it I get that but that's the outline of my idea.

 

 

The point is I agree, they need to do more things to get people addicted to playing online, You already hit the nail on the head a lot of the fun things in this game cost way to much money casual gamers aint got time for that........ understandably so,

 

That's why I believe cash cards have a small market when the casuals play the game and see everything fun requires money their going to abandon ship, I'm far from a casual gamer, i'm a game nerd and no way would I buy one.

 

IF rockstar made online addictive on the other hand.................. I think a lot of people myself included might crack....... People tend to hand money over quicker when their having fun and are whiling to part with some cash to have a blast

 

 

 

Abuse of Workforce / Out-of-Touch Developers

While all we have are a few worker testimonials, I think it's safe to assume that Rockstar is no different than those EA-type companies. Given their monstrous size and external prestige, these companies can treat their employees however they want without worrying about running out of a work force. Numerous employee testimonials reveal R* to be a hostile work environment: grueling overseers, tight deadlines, lack of proper tools for the trade, and no PR to go to. How can you make your best work when Sam Houser's iron fist is ready to come down? This is what kills the soul of games. V lacked a real feel, real writing, real originality, pressured workers just had to make a game that sells and had to meet a deadline, not that that always works out, considering the several months the game was delayed. When you're forced by your bosses to just make something that sells, you never are allowed to apply something new that you feel would be different and revolutionary, and worse, you cannot communicate well with your fan-base. You know what an excellent company like VALVe does? They read forums. They watch matches of their games. They read Reddit posts. They go into their own games in disguise and record the players' thoughts. They take time to assess a game and they care about the results. What does Rockstar go on? Sales figures. 10-year-olds like supercars and "420 SW4G" Call of Duty bullsh*t. A tasteless, gullible consumer-base prevents the development of a good game. Who cares about heists, about fun and rewarding missions, or about implementing something actually crime related when something easy and gimmicky like the Hipster Pack can take some popularity? That brings me to my next point:

 

 

Yeah it's pathetic how some of the people working on these games are treated, I heard some stories about team bondi the developers that rockstar help make la noire. So i'm aware it goes on and it's pretty f*cked up.

 

You're probably right about them rushing too meet deadlines that would explain a lot

 

 

Stupid Gimmicks / YouTube Friendly Games

(I'mma just copy-paste another post I made elsewhere... I like doing that)

Games try to be outrageous and silly so they'll get lots of coverage and "let's play"s to get plenty of free advertisement.

Think Goat Simulator. Sure, it was pretty funny and f*cking wild the first 15 minutes, but I wanted my god damn $10 back when I realized it was just a buggy mess that exploded in popularity virally before.

GTA YouTubers can only really entertain and capitalize on the worst parts of the game to sell it: exploits, bugs and physics exploits, silly SHENANIGANS, trolling, montages,

You can't really become a YouTube game based on a great story-arch or an immersive world. GTA IV didn't have many f*ck-around appearances on YouTube beyond the occasional stunt video. HOWEVER, it still saw plenty of videos through Machinimas and its powerful story-telling potential. The only community drawn in by wild, sh*tty "Let's Play" pewdiepie types are ten-year-old little dipsh*ts. While there's nothing inherently wrong with younger players at its core idea (other than the fact they're violating the terms of the ESRB), it generates a whole, miserable atmosphere of little tools trying to replicate what they saw their favorite YouTubber do. They use their parents' cards to buy sh*tty cash cards and colorful but shallow DLC, the games industry realizes they can just release half-finished games and skin packs and make more than a game they put three times the effort into to dignify it, and the cycle keeps going.

 

 

Yeah I agree just look at cod it's a good game in it's own right i'm not going to sit here and pretend it's not but the reason why I could never commit to buying the game is due to the fact it's pretty short story mode wise and online isn't my thing but it's growing on my slowly.

 

Honestly the game comes across to me like a huge rip off, unless you really want to play both the online and offline modes, I know that seems like a weird thing to say but I know a lot of people who buy these games to play the online for the most part and I feel bad for them they should be paying $10 for that sh*t on xbox live. It's not fair on them

 

cod of course isn't evil or anything im just using it as an example and yes I do agree with you

 

 

Hype / False Depiction of the Product

Remember your excitement when the trailers rolled out? Beautiful lighting, shading, rendering, textures, frame-rate. The world looked alive. Many models dotted the streets. What did we get? Low-resolution textures, sub-par lighting, mindless and emotionless peds, many trees and other foliage removed in-game where they were in the trailers. I honestly doubt they'll add any of it back on the next-gen re-releases. The trailers also depicted pretty much ALL of the very limited heists in the game. I had little surprise and discovery while playing. Just shove everything in the appetizer so you laud over the restaurant and can't tell how lacking the main course is. They sure played the nostalgia card with Franklin, cutting scenes from his two Grove Street-style gangbanger missions to get the old GTA fans hooked, just so their new green gangsta could sit in his yuppie house on the cliff running bitch errands for the government. Not to mention such limited amounts of the game were being rolled out, letting speculation run wild.

 

 

 

The only trailer that really got me was the first one, I had hopes it was going to start with the protag losing a lot of money due to the recession so he got back into the life off crime to support his family, Every man wants to provide for his family that's just how it is, So he gets a crew back together after looking for legit jobs and couldn't find any due to a variety of reasons he realizes he has to rob to keep himself and more importantly his family off the street. He would have a functional family.... so nothing like michaels but not fairytale stuff either..

 

You could have lester just how he is now, He does his computer thing you find someone that could stand to lose a lot of money, you rob him, rinse repeat, Half way throw the game things are going well but throughout the game the protag see's how much everyone else is hurting too, im not talking about ''hood sh*t'' i'm talking about everyday people losing stuff their've worked hard for, he finds a way to help a bunch of people via '' computer magic'' and than at the end of the game you've made a lot of powerful enemies, sh*t gets real and you can end it anyway you see fit,

 

Either that or just have the protag/protags rob people for their own person gain,

 

The heists should of been the only focus of V

 

VI should of been the game about government conspiracy's, the protag is a young criminal who shows a lot of promise early in his career certain people take notice and next thing you know....... you don't know whats going on,

 

someone plants photographs off the protag doing day to day stuff, on the front seat of you're otherwise untouched car, You start getting strange but in no way cryptic phone calls Just randoms with the wrong number, Maybe you're doing a mission the requires you to go online as part of it and some strange stuff happens,

 

The protag starts losing it, driving around trying to find whoever's chasing him, but no ones following, His in his home freaking out not sure what to do when he gets a phone calls telling him to be at X at Y time, He obviously turns up at the meeting and some more strange sh*t happens, Think of this as a psychological thriller,

 

So you have the build up, then he finally gets taken in, He doesn't know who his working for but he just knows he doesn't want to piss em off,

 

Towards the end of the game, you decide if you want to side with them and work for them of you're own free will going forward or you can go rogue, That would be epic.

 

 

My point is rockstar tried to make these two games in 69 missions when they made V and that's not possible that's why the story sucked ! I also agree the game looked prettier ect and that's annoying but we've all come to expect that.

 

Honestly from the second trailer onwards I had a really bad feeling about this game, I knew something wasn't right so I cant get to mad at their marketing because for my tastes the game was a disappointment when they made it look like a '' mainstream summer movie blockbuster'' I wanted more IV type sh*t and it was clear that wasn't happening,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rockstar, I've always looked to your products when I praised your company so much. You have amazed me with the 3D GTA's, your lesser-acknowledged Bully and Manhunt, and my favorites were even your recent releases of Max Payne 3, GTA IV, LA Noire, and of course, Red Dead Redemption. All those games took chances and received amazing praise for it. GTA V sold well and did fine critically, but so did the post MW1- Call of Duties for a while. The gaming world is in collective inebriation that "This is Rockstar we're taking about, they couldn't have made a less-than-satisfactory game!" If you continue making sh*tty, lazy games with your out-of-touch and whipped staff, then I can only hope your success and prestige in the gaming world tapers off immediately.

Or, what is more likely going to happen, you will be one of those f*cking EA sh*tcocks who exploit the lowest common denominator for the almighty dollar.

 

This is what I meant when I said '' summer blockbuster'' I probably used the term wrong but what you're describing is how v came across after the second trailer,

 

It was chasing the '' here today gone tomorrow '' crowd, do you get what i'm saying ? of course you do you already explained it better than me :)

 

 

We agreed on pretty much everything sorry if I went off the '' track'' a few times but I think a lot of what I said relates to you're posts

Edited by im_stoned
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Another problem of R* CURRENTLY IMO is that they lost the soul of making games, I remember back in the day with III and VC on how much imagination they put into the games and it was fun, and awesome. They had a soul, now adays it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$ with GTA online and f*cking cash cards, and nothing to SP, in fact they already ruined SP with the updates and lazy work. R* are slowly in a way becoming EA sports, they need to change fast, because it feels like R* are dead eyed serious now, and with money.

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Payne Killer

I recently posted this on another post, but I figured I'd copy-paste it because I thought it could be discussed more.

These are the reasons I thought GTA V, while you could still call a well-developed game, failed to meet lots of fan expectations, including my own.

 

Of course, they're just my opinions. Even if you don't see any of these in GTA V I hope we can wake up to these in the gaming industry in general and push for better quality games.

 

Pre-Order Bonuses / Exclusive Editions

A small vice, but a destructive one nonetheless. Several different tiers of pre-order bonuses are meant to engender a feeling of urgency into a gullible audience with entirely too much money (f*cking children) to pay over double the price of the game... for what? Extra clothing and vehicles? Minorly tweaked weapons? A hat? Stuff drawn up by the art department in five minutes? In reality: cheap horsesh*t nowhere near worth the extra money AND the risk that the game might not be up to snuff.

Copious Emphasis on Update and DLC / Pay2Win

If you are going to divert so much focus away from the single player campaign to promote multiplayer, then actually build up a functioning and coherent multiplayer. The multiplayer was released in a miserably broken state over a week after the game's release, and it was a mere shell of its potential. Numerous DLC packs followed, as did basic missions that support variety. The certered feature that arguably was supposed to make the multiplayer isn't even out nearly a year after the game's release. Why should they release it? They have your pre-order money for their unfinished games. I will give R* credit for releasing the DLC packs for free, that's cool on their part. Of course, they make that money back. After the purchases of a $60 release come the cash cards. Jobs are deliberately nerfed to force their sale. Nearly everything in GTA Online that is remotely fun is dependent on cash: weapons, ammunition, vehicles, fixing/upgrading/insuring vehicles, a place to store those vehicles, dying, all add up to monumental cost. What do you do? Endless grinding made near impossible, exploit their broken game for millions of virtual payola causing hacker crackdowns that effect a majority of players who did not even participate in exploits, or buy cash cards.

Abuse of Workforce / Out-of-Touch Developers

While all we have are a few worker testimonials, I think it's safe to assume that Rockstar is no different than those EA-type companies. Given their monstrous size and external prestige, these companies can treat their employees however they want without worrying about running out of a work force. Numerous employee testimonials reveal R* to be a hostile work environment: grueling overseers, tight deadlines, lack of proper tools for the trade, and no PR to go to. How can you make your best work when Sam Houser's iron fist is ready to come down? This is what kills the soul of games. V lacked a real feel, real writing, real originality, pressured workers just had to make a game that sells and had to meet a deadline, not that that always works out, considering the several months the game was delayed. When you're forced by your bosses to just make something that sells, you never are allowed to apply something new that you feel would be different and revolutionary, and worse, you cannot communicate well with your fan-base. You know what an excellent company like VALVe does? They read forums. They watch matches of their games. They read Reddit posts. They go into their own games in disguise and record the players' thoughts. They take time to assess a game and they care about the results. What does Rockstar go on? Sales figures. 10-year-olds like supercars and "420 SW4G" Call of Duty bullsh*t. A tasteless, gullible consumer-base prevents the development of a good game. Who cares about heists, about fun and rewarding missions, or about implementing something actually crime related when something easy and gimmicky like the Hipster Pack can take some popularity? That brings me to my next point:

Stupid Gimmicks / YouTube Friendly Games

(I'mma just copy-paste another post I made elsewhere... I like doing that)

Games try to be outrageous and silly so they'll get lots of coverage and "let's play"s to get plenty of free advertisement.

Think Goat Simulator. Sure, it was pretty funny and f*cking wild the first 15 minutes, but I wanted my god damn $10 back when I realized it was just a buggy mess that exploded in popularity virally before.

GTA YouTubers can only really entertain and capitalize on the worst parts of the game to sell it: exploits, bugs and physics exploits, silly SHENANIGANS, trolling, montages,

You can't really become a YouTube game based on a great story-arch or an immersive world. GTA IV didn't have many f*ck-around appearances on YouTube beyond the occasional stunt video. HOWEVER, it still saw plenty of videos through Machinimas and its powerful story-telling potential. The only community drawn in by wild, sh*tty "Let's Play" pewdiepie types are ten-year-old little dipsh*ts. While there's nothing inherently wrong with younger players at its core idea (other than the fact they're violating the terms of the ESRB), it generates a whole, miserable atmosphere of little tools trying to replicate what they saw their favorite YouTubber do. They use their parents' cards to buy sh*tty cash cards and colorful but shallow DLC, the games industry realizes they can just release half-finished games and skin packs and make more than a game they put three times the effort into to dignify it, and the cycle keeps going.

Hype / False Depiction of the Product

Remember your excitement when the trailers rolled out? Beautiful lighting, shading, rendering, textures, frame-rate. The world looked alive. Many models dotted the streets. What did we get? Low-resolution textures, sub-par lighting, mindless and emotionless peds, many trees and other foliage removed in-game where they were in the trailers. I honestly doubt they'll add any of it back on the next-gen re-releases. The trailers also depicted pretty much ALL of the very limited heists in the game. I had little surprise and discovery while playing. Just shove everything in the appetizer so you laud over the restaurant and can't tell how lacking the main course is. They sure played the nostalgia card with Franklin, cutting scenes from his two Grove Street-style gangbanger missions to get the old GTA fans hooked, just so their new green gangsta could sit in his yuppie house on the cliff running bitch errands for the government. Not to mention such limited amounts of the game were being rolled out, letting speculation run wild.

Rockstar, I've always looked to your products when I praised your company so much. You have amazed me with the 3D GTA's, your lesser-acknowledged Bully and Manhunt, and my favorites were even your recent releases of Max Payne 3, GTA IV, LA Noire, and of course, Red Dead Redemption. All those games took chances and received amazing praise for it. GTA V sold well and did fine critically, but so did the post MW1- Call of Duties for a while. The gaming world is in collective inebriation that "This is Rockstar we're taking about, they couldn't have made a less-than-satisfactory game!" If you continue making sh*tty, lazy games with your out-of-touch and whipped staff, then I can only hope your success and prestige in the gaming world tapers off immediately.

Or, what is more likely going to happen, you will be one of those f*cking EA sh*tcocks who exploit the lowest common denominator for the almighty dollar.

@DrunkenCowboy, you need to spam rockstar with these wise words. Then maybe they can finally make gta with soul and love. not cash cards, gtao bullsh*t, and then they can become a different kind of developer. One that doesn't do things others do.(EA, dicktiviosion, infantry ward, etc…)

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ObsydianRaven

If I could like this a million times over I would.

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I agree with everything you said in your OP! The triple A game industry has pretty much made me despise buying games new now. None of the games coming soon this year and next don't interest me at all. The only game I bought at the store full price this year was Watch_Dogs and that game was decent but still disappointing. Thankfully their are a still good developers out there.

 

P.S I think this should be re-titled and moved to the Gaming section of the forum, just a thought though.

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don ovdi' island

I remember someone here once saying "It's amazing how we, the fans are more creative and detailed than R* itself"

 

That definitely doesn't apply to everyone but some people, wether it be on GTAF or elsewhere, have way better ideas for not just content but for actual gameplay than R*. This goes for every aspect, including the story and the dry satire in the fictional world build around it.

But was Los santos built around GTA V's story or was GTA V's story built for Los Santos? Sometimes I can't tell. A lot about this game feels fake, or forced. Lack of immersion, lack of details.. While they game is still enjoyable, there's a lot of "small things" missing that make people think "Wow it would be cool if it had this, or that" and when people think like that, it means that they're thinking about what the game could have been.

 

Sure, they have the smarts to build the models and master the coding, we can't do that, but if R*'s engineers teamed up with some people that were as creative as many people here, or elsewhere, I'd think we'd have a way better game.

 

Anything about the marketing, well, yeah, that's how it is in todays world. Why do they show all the funny parts of a "comedy" movie in the commercials, and you go and it's nothing but a dry, boring or completely stupid story with all the funny parts coming as no surprise because you saw them in the commercial. They tried really hard on the trailers to make it look like some 16 player co op session mission spectacular kind of stuff, but the game really is what you make of it.

 

Let's be honest, GTA V - just as a game, not talking about the story or gameplay, but GTA V as a game is pushing the hell out of these old ass consoles. I think the PS4/XB1 installments will have a lot crisper detail and smoother gameplay; and maybe not right away, but eventually more features and content will be added in the future.

 

I'm a Grand Theft Fan, period. Red Dead Redemption was amazing to me and Bully was tight, i remember coping Bully to play a few months before GTA IV came out. I grew up on GTA, But there's a lot about GTA V i don't like. Will I stop playing it? No. Probably not until they ban me from online or the next GTA comes out.

 

btw I don't get all the Call of Duty hate. COD: Modern Warfare will always be one of my favorites and I liked Black Ops too.

 

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Drunken Cowboy

^

I wish producers would give their audience more credit than they do in regards to all forms of media. Instead of creating something maybe a bit elevated and worry about their consumer base not liking or understanding it, they release things that are simple and watered-down, thinking the safety is worth it.

 

And I get you. CoD, at its core, is a revolutionary franchise. I loved MW1 and Black Ops 1, talk about good stories and good gameplay! But the companies that churn them out now are pretty embarrassing, and it's reflecting in their work and audience.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The problem with the gaming industry now days is it is just rinse and repeat. Additionally they seem to be shying away from taking risks as well.

 

Cheers.

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It seems like you're wanting to run for Best Topic of 2014.

....how do you know this?

Edited by nobum62
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Drunken Cowboy

 

It seems like you're wanting to run for Best Topic of 2014.

....how do you know this?

Ronson's pushing for detective.

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When the developers ( who are primarily artists themselves ) have a strong passion to provide a great gaming experience, complete, in all respects, are allowed and able to approve of the decisions to determine about what's actually important to play a game, then we'll definitely get to see a lot better games in the market ( Arx Fatalis! comes to mind - it's a really nice old game, sort of, a poor man's version of skyrim )

IMO, the CEO and all the other EO's who are running the gaming company can't really be expected to make good decisions, which is a skill that quite easily can be approached a lot better by the developers and his team of artists only.

Not saying that they don't have any say, but still they've to pass through those decisions too, made mainly as a matter of what's more profitable, which again can't be overlooked either.

But, that's when the probability of a sh*tty game shoots up for the convenience of good sales.

Divinity: OS, Wasteland 2 ( the promising Pillars of Eternity, etc ) don't have the best graphics and the highest standards of AAA - that drive sales, but in my opinion, they're absolutely the best games possible to enjoy which would bring in any player who's capable to understand the games' core appeal.

Strong gaming companies have nothing much to worry about the investment and better resources to make a great game, it's just when despite the highest production values' they miss on the "wow" factor in the gameplay and core appeal, that will last quite possibly for years to come ( Baldur's Gate saga, for instance ) and be easily remembered for combining the strong content and the cool looks to play with the right balance of gameplay between the two.

From what I've read around the web on the subject, some have written with adequate logic to back up, that "Consoles market" can be single-handedly blamed for everything that's happening wrong right now, when many AAA gaming companies have become more business minded now, than ever before.

Edited by Osho
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If I could like this a million times over I would.

You did.

 

Screenshot:

 

 

gxJKAlO.jpg

 

 

Edited by Wavesittich
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Hey, strong but true words Drunken Cowboy. I agree with you.

 

The whole game industry needs a kick up the backside if you ask me.

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