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Young Martini

Why do some of you hate CJ?

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Evil empire
On 9/25/2018 at 8:50 PM, Evil empire said:

A lot of those who hate CJ are racist.

 

14 minutes ago, Agent 14 said:

I was just quoting that one guy who assumed everyone that disliked him was racist.

So according to you "a lot" means the same than "everyone"? 12.gif

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Official General
On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 5:10 PM, Agent 14 said:

 

Please leave your sjw pc agenda out of this.

 

CJ is just an overrated protagonist nothing to do with racism.

With all due respect, it is best to speak for yourself and not others when it comes to a topic such as this. If that is your personal opinion on CJ, that is perfectly fine, you're entitled to that. But going out of you way to disprove the racism theory brought forward by others to explain why many other people don't like CJ will make you look bad or like you have some kind of sinister motive. It does appear you are having a dig at someone who clearly believes they have observed racism in the gaming community and you're quick to disregard it and dismiss it on behalf of everybody else - now it may raise the question, what does that make you ? You see where this can lead ?

 

You need to read posts more carefully because the guy you are talking about clearly stated that in his opinion, a lot of people dislike CJ because their racist, not everyone. So you've basically stirred up conflict for a reason that never existed in the first place. 

Edited by Official General

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Billy Russo

I've always liked CJ, although I get why people don't like him.

There's not a whole lot about him, but I never had a problem playing as him and I like his interactions with Ryder/Smoke etc.

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Mäx Waynë
On 1/31/2019 at 9:16 PM, Billy Russo said:

I've always liked CJ, although I get why people don't like him.

There's not a whole lot about him, but I never had a problem playing as him and I like his interactions with Ryder/Smoke etc.

That's exactly what I have to say. I Like playing as CJ and I don't have a problem with him. 

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Km666
On 1/16/2019 at 11:35 PM, American Venom said:

I have to laugh at the subtle jab that if anyone likes Michael and doesn't like CJ they're racist.

What part of it was subtle? If there was a Venn diagram those who rate CJ as worst protagonist would likely have Michael as best. If Michael is the most relatable protagonist to those who rate him it is because they share something of his appearance or value set.

 

Tbh to me Michael is trash, he's a thug bank robber who married a stripper but is presented as oddly rounded and sophisticated despite being basically old, bored and lazy. He should be wearing velour tracksuits, or pants and a football jersey with gaudy gold jewellery. Not a wide selection of boring Marks and Spenser's style smart casual wear, at what point in his witness protection programme did he fit in elocution lessons? At least CJ went through the trouble of having flying lessons instead of just buying a hanger and being allowed to fly. 

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Km666
29 minutes ago, Km666 said:

What part of it was subtle? If there was a Venn diagram those who rate CJ as worst protagonist would likely have Michael as best. If Michael is the most relatable protagonist to those who rate him it is because they share something of his appearance or value set.

 

Tbh to me Michael is trash, he's a thug bank robber who married a stripper but is presented as oddly rounded and sophisticated despite being basically old, bored and lazy. He should be wearing velour tracksuits, or pants and a football jersey with gaudy gold jewellery. Not a wide selection of boring Marks and Spenser's style smart casual wear, at what point in his witness protection programme did he fit in elocution lessons? At least CJ went through the trouble of having flying lessons instead of just buying a hanger and being allowed to fly. 

I meant to add that it is probably about race but not strictly speaking racist to relate to one more than another based on their race. Although a possibility that shouldn't be discounted.

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American Venom
11 hours ago, Km666 said:

What part of it was subtle? If there was a Venn diagram those who rate CJ as worst protagonist would likely have Michael as best. If Michael is the most relatable protagonist to those who rate him it is because they share something of his appearance or value set.

 

Tbh to me Michael is trash, he's a thug bank robber who married a stripper but is presented as oddly rounded and sophisticated despite being basically old, bored and lazy. He should be wearing velour tracksuits, or pants and a football jersey with gaudy gold jewellery. Not a wide selection of boring Marks and Spenser's style smart casual wear, at what point in his witness protection programme did he fit in elocution lessons? At least CJ went through the trouble of having flying lessons instead of just buying a hanger and being allowed to fly. 

 

I don't care what you think about Michael himself. Apart from being well voice acted he's ok at best. Infact NONE of the GTA V protagonists are that great IMO, but I don't get the correlation you make that someone disliking CJ would most likely have Michael as the best. Say hypothetically someone does relate to Michael. So what? Is that a crime? 

 

Each to their own as far as I'm concerned. Unless you have hard and direct evidence this is a wild assumption based on an outdated mentality. 

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TheSantader25

I think this argument is getting a bit ridiculous. CJ is my favorite protagonist and Michael is my second favorite of the series. I like them because of their personality and I don't give a sh*t about race. 

 

I don't think people who hate CJ are all racists but some genuinely are. I have a feeling if the same actions and dialogues were executed by a white dude they would actually rate it as one of the best in the series but somehow it feels 'bland' and "unrealistic" because CJ is just a black ghetto boy. Of course I'm not talking about everyone here and I'm sure some people have valid reasons for disliking him. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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pizzapizza

I find it hilarious when I see mods that attempt to change CJ's skin color.

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American Venom

Another reason why I hate him. He's literally the WORST candidate for becoming a leader. Gang leaders should be strong, ambitious etc. CJ's none of those things to me.

 

He really comes across like a scared little boy trapped in a man's world. No wonder the little pussy ran away from his friends and family when they needed him the most.

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Son of Zeus
3 hours ago, American Venom said:

Another reason why I hate him. He's literally the WORST candidate for becoming a leader. Gang leaders should be strong, ambitious etc. CJ's none of those things to me.

 

He really comes across like a scared little boy trapped in a man's world. No wonder the little pussy ran away from his friends and family when they needed him the most.

CJ didn't run away, he left because he felt guilty for Brian's death. He came back and made GSF more stronger though, so it's all good. Also he isn't the sole leader of the gang, that isn't his character. Sweet was older and the leader, but most of the hard work getting GSF back up was done by CJ.

Edited by Son of Zeus

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American Venom
16 minutes ago, Son of Zeus said:

CJ didn't run away, he left because he felt guilty for Brian's death. He came back and made GSF more stronger though, so it's all good. Also he isn't the sole leader of the gang, that isn't his character. Sweet was older and the leader, but most of the hard work getting GSF back up was done by CJ.

San Andreas' story is garbage to me so some finer details are bound to be lost either because I haven't played it in years and/or I simply do not care about it, but I do remember Sweet calling him out for running away. 

 

 

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Son of Zeus
25 minutes ago, American Venom said:

San Andreas' story is garbage to me so some finer details are bound to be lost either because I haven't played it in years and/or I simply do not care about it, but I do remember Sweet calling him out for running away. 

 

Why comment without knowing the full details then? Sweet was insulting him like that because he hated anyone who tried to live a life outside GSF. 

Edited by Son of Zeus

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American Venom
7 minutes ago, Son of Zeus said:

Why comment without knowing the full details then? Sweet was insulting him like that because he hated anyone who didn't follow his lead.

I can say the same thing about the people who get things wrong about GTA IV all the time. Oh well. Atleast I have the class to admit when I'm wrong.

 

Anyway the quote I remember is "That's another funeral you ran away from just like Brian's". Whether it was guilt for his death it's the one that's always prevented me from taking CJ seriously. In the first 5 minutes he solidified himself as kinda of a pussy and first impressions count to me atleast.

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Son of Zeus
20 minutes ago, American Venom said:

I can say the same thing about the people who get things wrong about GTA IV all the time. Oh well. Atleast I have the class to admit when I'm wrong.

 

Anyway the quote I remember is "That's another funeral you ran away from just like Brian's". Whether it was guilt for his death it's the one that's always prevented me from taking CJ seriously. In the first 5 minutes he solidified himself as kinda of a pussy and first impressions count to me atleast.

I only comment on things i know about IV though. I know that's the quote you were referring to. Judging a character in the first 5 minutes itself seems pretty extreme. Sure first impressions matter, but characters change later in the story. It's like saying  Spiderman can't be taken seriously cause he's a weak bullied nerd in the beginning. What matters is him bringing GSF to the top by the end.

Edited by Son of Zeus

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American Venom
15 minutes ago, Son of Zeus said:

I know that's the quote you were referring to. Judging a character in the first 5 minutes itself seems pretty extreme. Sure first impressions matter, but characters change later in the story. It's like saying  Spiderman can't be taken seriously cause he's a weak bullied nerd in the beginning. What matters is him bringing GSF to the top by the end.

It might be extreme, but that's how I honestly feel. He left a bad first impression straight off the bat and it pretty much distorted my views on him from that point. Even when I tried REALLY hard to ignore the fact he nearly sh*t his pants when Smoke pulled a bat on him it was hard to take anything he did seriously.

 

Obviously we're never going to agree on this since you love the guy and I don't, but I can't make it much clearer than that I'm afraid.

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perennial

We really don't know the circumstances that led to Brian's death, I figured CJ leaving the Grove because of that might have been a reasonable outcome. It was Tenpenny/Catalina/T-Bone/Toreno making him beg for them that made me kinda wish CJ could grow some balls though...

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Son of Zeus
31 minutes ago, American Venom said:

It might be extreme, but that's how I honestly feel. He left a bad first impression straight off the bat and it pretty much distorted my views on him from that point. Even when I tried REALLY hard to ignore the fact he nearly sh*t his pants when Smoke pulled a bat on him it was hard to take anything he did seriously.

 

Obviously we're never going to agree on this since you love the guy and I don't, but I can't make it much clearer than that I'm afraid.

I like him but he isn't my favourite character - Michael is. I do think people sh*t on CJ a bit too much though.

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