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Young Martini

Why do some of you hate CJ?

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Evil empire
On 9/25/2018 at 8:50 PM, Evil empire said:

A lot of those who hate CJ are racist.

 

14 minutes ago, Agent 14 said:

I was just quoting that one guy who assumed everyone that disliked him was racist.

So according to you "a lot" means the same than "everyone"? 12.gif

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Official General
On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 5:10 PM, Agent 14 said:

 

Please leave your sjw pc agenda out of this.

 

CJ is just an overrated protagonist nothing to do with racism.

With all due respect, it is best to speak for yourself and not others when it comes to a topic such as this. If that is your personal opinion on CJ, that is perfectly fine, you're entitled to that. But going out of you way to disprove the racism theory brought forward by others to explain why many other people don't like CJ will make you look bad or like you have some kind of sinister motive. It does appear you are having a dig at someone who clearly believes they have observed racism in the gaming community and you're quick to disregard it and dismiss it on behalf of everybody else - now it may raise the question, what does that make you ? You see where this can lead ?

 

You need to read posts more carefully because the guy you are talking about clearly stated that in his opinion, a lot of people dislike CJ because their racist, not everyone. So you've basically stirred up conflict for a reason that never existed in the first place. 

Edited by Official General

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Billy Russo

I've always liked CJ, although I get why people don't like him.

There's not a whole lot about him, but I never had a problem playing as him and I like his interactions with Ryder/Smoke etc.

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Mäx Waynë
On 1/31/2019 at 9:16 PM, Billy Russo said:

I've always liked CJ, although I get why people don't like him.

There's not a whole lot about him, but I never had a problem playing as him and I like his interactions with Ryder/Smoke etc.

That's exactly what I have to say. I Like playing as CJ and I don't have a problem with him. 

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Km666
On 1/16/2019 at 11:35 PM, American Venom said:

I have to laugh at the subtle jab that if anyone likes Michael and doesn't like CJ they're racist.

What part of it was subtle? If there was a Venn diagram those who rate CJ as worst protagonist would likely have Michael as best. If Michael is the most relatable protagonist to those who rate him it is because they share something of his appearance or value set.

 

Tbh to me Michael is trash, he's a thug bank robber who married a stripper but is presented as oddly rounded and sophisticated despite being basically old, bored and lazy. He should be wearing velour tracksuits, or pants and a football jersey with gaudy gold jewellery. Not a wide selection of boring Marks and Spenser's style smart casual wear, at what point in his witness protection programme did he fit in elocution lessons? At least CJ went through the trouble of having flying lessons instead of just buying a hanger and being allowed to fly. 

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Km666
29 minutes ago, Km666 said:

What part of it was subtle? If there was a Venn diagram those who rate CJ as worst protagonist would likely have Michael as best. If Michael is the most relatable protagonist to those who rate him it is because they share something of his appearance or value set.

 

Tbh to me Michael is trash, he's a thug bank robber who married a stripper but is presented as oddly rounded and sophisticated despite being basically old, bored and lazy. He should be wearing velour tracksuits, or pants and a football jersey with gaudy gold jewellery. Not a wide selection of boring Marks and Spenser's style smart casual wear, at what point in his witness protection programme did he fit in elocution lessons? At least CJ went through the trouble of having flying lessons instead of just buying a hanger and being allowed to fly. 

I meant to add that it is probably about race but not strictly speaking racist to relate to one more than another based on their race. Although a possibility that shouldn't be discounted.

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SonOfLiberty
11 hours ago, Km666 said:

What part of it was subtle? If there was a Venn diagram those who rate CJ as worst protagonist would likely have Michael as best. If Michael is the most relatable protagonist to those who rate him it is because they share something of his appearance or value set.

 

Tbh to me Michael is trash, he's a thug bank robber who married a stripper but is presented as oddly rounded and sophisticated despite being basically old, bored and lazy. He should be wearing velour tracksuits, or pants and a football jersey with gaudy gold jewellery. Not a wide selection of boring Marks and Spenser's style smart casual wear, at what point in his witness protection programme did he fit in elocution lessons? At least CJ went through the trouble of having flying lessons instead of just buying a hanger and being allowed to fly. 

 

I don't care what you think about Michael himself. Apart from being well voice acted he's ok at best. Infact NONE of the GTA V protagonists are that great IMO, but I don't get the correlation you make that someone disliking CJ would most likely have Michael as the best. Say hypothetically someone does relate to Michael. So what? Is that a crime? 

 

Each to their own as far as I'm concerned. Unless you have hard and direct evidence this is a wild assumption based on an outdated mentality. 

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TheSantader25

I think this argument is getting a bit ridiculous. CJ is my favorite protagonist and Michael is my second favorite of the series. I like them because of their personality and I don't give a sh*t about race. 

 

I don't think people who hate CJ are all racists but some genuinely are. I have a feeling if the same actions and dialogues were executed by a white dude they would actually rate it as one of the best in the series but somehow it feels 'bland' and "unrealistic" because CJ is just a black ghetto boy. Of course I'm not talking about everyone here and I'm sure some people have valid reasons for disliking him. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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pizzapizza

I find it hilarious when I see mods that attempt to change CJ's skin color.

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SonOfLiberty

Another reason why I hate him. He's literally the WORST candidate for becoming a leader. Gang leaders should be strong, ambitious etc. CJ's none of those things to me.

 

He really comes across like a scared little boy trapped in a man's world. No wonder the little pussy ran away from his friends and family when they needed him the most.

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Son of Zeus
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, American Venom said:

Another reason why I hate him. He's literally the WORST candidate for becoming a leader. Gang leaders should be strong, ambitious etc. CJ's none of those things to me.

 

He really comes across like a scared little boy trapped in a man's world. No wonder the little pussy ran away from his friends and family when they needed him the most.

CJ didn't run away, he left because he felt guilty for Brian's death. He came back and made GSF more stronger though, so it's all good. Also he isn't the sole leader of the gang, that isn't his character. Sweet was older and the leader, but most of the hard work getting GSF back up was done by CJ.

Edited by Son of Zeus

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SonOfLiberty
16 minutes ago, Son of Zeus said:

CJ didn't run away, he left because he felt guilty for Brian's death. He came back and made GSF more stronger though, so it's all good. Also he isn't the sole leader of the gang, that isn't his character. Sweet was older and the leader, but most of the hard work getting GSF back up was done by CJ.

San Andreas' story is garbage to me so some finer details are bound to be lost either because I haven't played it in years and/or I simply do not care about it, but I do remember Sweet calling him out for running away. 

 

 

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Son of Zeus
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, American Venom said:

San Andreas' story is garbage to me so some finer details are bound to be lost either because I haven't played it in years and/or I simply do not care about it, but I do remember Sweet calling him out for running away. 

 

Why comment without knowing the full details then? Sweet was insulting him like that because he hated anyone who tried to live a life outside GSF. 

Edited by Son of Zeus

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SonOfLiberty
7 minutes ago, Son of Zeus said:

Why comment without knowing the full details then? Sweet was insulting him like that because he hated anyone who didn't follow his lead.

I can say the same thing about the people who get things wrong about GTA IV all the time. Oh well. Atleast I have the class to admit when I'm wrong.

 

Anyway the quote I remember is "That's another funeral you ran away from just like Brian's". Whether it was guilt for his death it's the one that's always prevented me from taking CJ seriously. In the first 5 minutes he solidified himself as kinda of a pussy and first impressions count to me atleast.

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Son of Zeus
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, American Venom said:

I can say the same thing about the people who get things wrong about GTA IV all the time. Oh well. Atleast I have the class to admit when I'm wrong.

 

Anyway the quote I remember is "That's another funeral you ran away from just like Brian's". Whether it was guilt for his death it's the one that's always prevented me from taking CJ seriously. In the first 5 minutes he solidified himself as kinda of a pussy and first impressions count to me atleast.

I only comment on things i know about IV though. I know that's the quote you were referring to. Judging a character in the first 5 minutes itself seems pretty extreme. Sure first impressions matter, but characters change later in the story. It's like saying  Spiderman can't be taken seriously cause he's a weak bullied nerd in the beginning. What matters is him bringing GSF to the top by the end.

Edited by Son of Zeus

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SonOfLiberty
15 minutes ago, Son of Zeus said:

I know that's the quote you were referring to. Judging a character in the first 5 minutes itself seems pretty extreme. Sure first impressions matter, but characters change later in the story. It's like saying  Spiderman can't be taken seriously cause he's a weak bullied nerd in the beginning. What matters is him bringing GSF to the top by the end.

It might be extreme, but that's how I honestly feel. He left a bad first impression straight off the bat and it pretty much distorted my views on him from that point. Even when I tried REALLY hard to ignore the fact he nearly sh*t his pants when Smoke pulled a bat on him it was hard to take anything he did seriously.

 

Obviously we're never going to agree on this since you love the guy and I don't, but I can't make it much clearer than that I'm afraid.

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perennial

We really don't know the circumstances that led to Brian's death, I figured CJ leaving the Grove because of that might have been a reasonable outcome. It was Tenpenny/Catalina/T-Bone/Toreno making him beg for them that made me kinda wish CJ could grow some balls though...

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Son of Zeus
Posted (edited)
On 4/19/2019 at 3:19 PM, American Venom said:

It might be extreme, but that's how I honestly feel. He left a bad first impression straight off the bat and it pretty much distorted my views on him from that point. Even when I tried REALLY hard to ignore the fact he nearly sh*t his pants when Smoke pulled a bat on him it was hard to take anything he did seriously.

 

Obviously we're never going to agree on this since you love the guy and I don't, but I can't make it much clearer than that I'm afraid.

I do think people sh*t on CJ a bit too much though.

Edited by Son of Zeus

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PowerGamingU

I don't hate CJ

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Big_Smiley
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, perennial said:

We really don't know the circumstances that led to Brian's death, I figured CJ leaving the Grove because of that might have been a reasonable outcome. It was Tenpenny/Catalina/T-Bone/Toreno making him beg for them that made me kinda wish CJ could grow some balls though...

 Yeah I do agree with this. His tough personality just fell apart during these missions and it did confuse me a little as first. Which was like first playing the game waaay back during the 04 release. During Jizzy's missions T-bone seems much more like a hard ass gang member compard to CJ. Even in the introduction we can see Mendez beating the crap out of Jose an OG Azteca who was supposably was hard by calling out CJ during that lowrider mission with Ceaser. He had that mentality. Triple OG Kid Frost did a grate job. Just wished R* could have worked something else during these parts. Carl's tough personality flew right out the window when these missions arrived. Tommy probably would have already butchered every single one after he was done speaking to each one :p Who knows what Claude would have done too, lol.

 

7 hours ago, Son of Zeus said:

I do think people sh*t on CJ a bit too much though.

If @Osho. was still here none of this would be happening. I used to enjoy a good snack while reading his long ass posts on why your dumbass was wrong every single way for not liking CJ, lmao. By dumbass I'm referring to anyone who called out CJ btw.

Edited by Big_Smiley

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SonOfLiberty
6 hours ago, Big_Smiley said:

If @Osho. was still here none of this would be happening. I used to enjoy a good snack while reading his long ass posts on why your dumbass was wrong every single way for not liking CJ, lmao. By dumbass I'm referring to anyone who called out CJ btw.

Same lol.

 

I liked to imagine when reading his essay long rants he was getting all red in the face and tears flowing while typing because anyone dare say something bad about a digital character he liked. It says a lot even when San Andreas fans got tired of his bullsh*t. Good times though.

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iiCriminnaaL 49

Well, not every GTA San Andreas fan is crazy for CJ anyway. 😛

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SonOfLiberty
21 minutes ago, iiCriminnaaL 49 said:

Well, not every GTA San Andreas fan is crazy for CJ anyway. 😛

That's the thing I've always found fascinating. It doesn't happen with other GTA games. How many Vice City fans do you know that don't like Tommy very much? GTA IV fans and Niko? TLAD fans and Johnny? etc.

 

If there's one thing about a game I would hope to like it's the protagonist otherwise the rest of the experience will be rather dull since i'm the one controlling him after all. 

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Big_Smiley
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, American Venom said:

Same lol.

 

I liked to imagine when reading his essay long rants he was getting all red in the face and tears flowing while typing because anyone dare say something bad about a digital character he liked. It says a lot even when San Andreas fans got tired of his bullsh*t. Good times though.

I never had a problem with the guy it's just that the PM's he would sent me couple years back ranting about CJ were ridiculous. FFS he couldn't except my opinion about Carl personality changes in anyway, lol. 

 

6 hours ago, American Venom said:

That's the thing I've always found fascinating. It doesn't happen with other GTA games. How many Vice City fans do you know that don't like Tommy very much? GTA IV fans and Niko? TLAD fans and Johnny? etc.

Because all those characters show remorse in a way Like with Tommy and lance or other examples like Niko and my BOY Johnny "BUT" each of them remain a hard knuckle if you catch my drift here. They still remain ruthless in every single way no matter the person. 

 

Still though on the other side of SA it will always remain my favorite gta just because of the setting. The thing is I did relate to Carl in a way from a backround of growing up in the projects in the late 80's which were located in the some of the worst neighborhoods around the areas of Boyle Heights at the time. So the game itself definitely connected to me especially with the lowrider elements with Ceaser who looks so much like my older cousin, lol. Just like how IV connects to you in a way.

 

I don't really hate Carl himself as a protagonist but I just wish R* made him keep that personality inside instead of changing it and making him seem like a complete bitch to other characters. The problem was the game wasn't heavily focused on the boyz n' the hood theme for much long after the events of the green sabre. Carl's personality completely changes after those events. Thing is I accept that CJ didn't have a perfect personality. Something Osho could never accept with me :p Everyone has opinions. SA is a completely bland and boring game to you pulp but that's alright G. Doesn't bother me cause FFS it's called having opinions. Osho was beyond that, lmao.

 

Imo, R* did the personalities right with Tommy even though he seemed like a ruthless killer Victor, and the IV trio. I can't even make out on what R* was trying to go for with the V trio, tbh.

Edited by Big_Smiley

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TheSantader25
Posted (edited)

I think CJ's biggest personality trait is actually his ambition and it's a trait nobody can ignore. Even early in the story he pushes the others to go and see Emmet instead of just fooling around and having nothing to fight the Ballas with. The way he is always thriving for more is what made him take over an entire state. Though I don't think he is a leader. He is the typical "Second in command" guy and perfect for the role. He is the type who works best with a partner. As witnessed in the story he shares every business with a partner. 

 

I'm trying to find something I hate about him but I just can't lol. Most things about him are all good or mediocre. Nothing for me to hate on him for. 

Edited by TheSantader25

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Son of Zeus
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

I think CJ's biggest personality trait is actually his ambition and it's a trait nobody can ignore. Even early in the story he pushes the others to go and see Emmet instead of just fooling around and having nothing to fight the Ballas with. The way he is always thriving for more is what made him take over an entire state. Though I don't think he is a leader. He is the typical "Second in command" guy and perfect for the role. He is the type who works best with a partner. As witnessed in the story he shares every business with a partner. 

 

I'm trying to find something I hate about him but I just can't lol. Most things about him are all good or mediocre. Nothing for me to hate on him for. 

He's more of a underdog type of character. Not super hard, but someone who pushes himself through tough situations anyway. To me that's more interesting than say Tommy who was never fazed by anything. He's not perfect though and is inconsistent at a a lot of times, they could've also given him more memorable dialogue and events. I guess people expected more of a generic hardcore gangster type.

15 hours ago, Big_Smiley said:

 If @Osho. was still here none of this would be happening. I used to enjoy a good snack while reading his long ass posts on why your dumbass was wrong every single way for not liking CJ, lmao. By dumbass I'm referring to anyone who called out CJ btw.

Yeah Osho was a bit too extreme lol. Did he actually send you PMs?

Edited by Son of Zeus

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Big_Smiley
8 hours ago, Son of Zeus said:

I guess people expected more of a generic hardcore gangster type.

Not gonna lie my dude, looking back I really was thinking more of a hardcore gangbanger. Someone like T-bone (no matter how annoying as hell was) but the  mentality. He always did remind of a few locs I knew from the neighborhoods. Someone not even me would f*ck over. But then again CJ just has many sides to him. Like I said I don't hate him, Just wished he was a little more balanced in a few ways. He's still good in my protagonist book.

 

8 hours ago, Son of Zeus said:

Yeah Osho was a bit too extreme lol. Did he actually send you PMs?

I spoke with Osho a coulpe times throughout back in 2015 we just didn't agree much on things really.

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El Penguin Bobo

Don't get me wrong, I like CJ, but he's my least favorite protagonist. Why?

 

Mainly because he's such a pussy and he doesn't have that much of a personality. He always takes sh*t from people like Sweet, Catalina, and he almost shat his pants when he saw Toreno still alive after he tried to kill him.

 

To the people who's saying people don't like him because he's black, that may have been the case back in 2004 for most people, but now people don't really like him because of his character.

 

I would honestly like CJ more if he grew some balls for once.

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SonOfLiberty
5 hours ago, xXPinguXx said:

Don't get me wrong, I like CJ, but he's my least favorite protagonist. Why?

 

Mainly because he's such a pussy and he doesn't have that much of a personality. He always takes sh*t from people like Sweet, Catalina, and he almost shat his pants when he saw Toreno still alive after he tried to kill him.

 

To the people who's saying people don't like him because he's black, that may have been the case back in 2004 for most people, but now people don't really like him because of his character.

 

I would honestly like CJ more if he grew some balls for once.

His lack of a spine really annoys me. He hardly has opinions of his own and just follows the lead basically. I definitely would've preferred if he was more hardened as a career criminal. The "poor kid from the ghetto rising up against all the odds" type story is pretty lame for a GTA game IMO.

 

If he indeed grew a sack more people would like him. 

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LCLegend

I remember some of you posting about the 'little man stuck in the big man's game' for CJ, and I personally think that storyline and angle could work for a character like CJ, but the fact that they make him so inconsistent muddies that aspect down a little bit since they were trying to go for all angles with a game like San Andreas. I still like the game, it has wonderful elements, but CJ is definitely not the best protagonist, even in comparison to ones with little to no character like Claude.

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