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acmilano

Military Crisis in Ukraine

Recommended Posts

Mister Pink

 

Stay a night on the streets of Chicago and tell me the US isn't f*cked up. And that's just 1 city.

Sure there are some f*cked up neighborhoods and areas here and there. but at least we dont have people rioting and burning sh*t on the national mall. Even the stupid occupy protests never got anywhere near this sh*t. Hell the worst riot you will see around here these days is when a local sports team wins a championship.

 

 

Dude, did you have to derail the topic and make it about the USA. This is not about the USA, it's about Ukraine. And yes, US has had it's fair share of f*cked-upness. Look at the LA. Riots. Anyway, all that is irrelevant.

 

It's sad to see people dying in these riots.

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poklane

 

 

Stay a night on the streets of Chicago and tell me the US isn't f*cked up. And that's just 1 city.

Sure there are some f*cked up neighborhoods and areas here and there. but at least we dont have people rioting and burning sh*t on the national mall. Even the stupid occupy protests never got anywhere near this sh*t. Hell the worst riot you will see around here these days is when a local sports team wins a championship.

 

 

Dude, did you have to derail the topic and make it about the USA. This is not about the USA, it's about Ukraine. And yes, US has had it's fair share of f*cked-upness. Look at the LA. Riots. Anyway, all that is irrelevant.

 

It's sad to see people dying in these riots.

 

He derails the topic, we get in back on track, and you derail it again...

EDIT: Russian fighter jets violated Ukraine's air space

Russian fighter jets twice violated Ukraine's air space over the Black Sea during the night, Interfax news agency quoted the Defence Ministry as saying on Monday.

It said Ukraine's air force had scrambled a Sukhoi SU-27 interceptor aircraft and prevented any "provocative actions" but gave no further details.

(Reporting By Timothy Heritage)

Edited by poklane

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Frantz Fuchs

I really had my money on the North Koreans being the ones to start WW3. With China having the outside shot. The Eastern Europeans really snuck in there this time I have to say

 

How can North Korea start a World War? If NK attacks the US or SK first, China or Russia will not help them when they get pounded.

 

China would only help them if US/SK attacks them first, in which case, it would be US/SK who started the World War.

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Stephan90

Chinas foreign minister said that he is on Russia's side. How stupid is that?! Honestly, I don't understand in what possible way this step can be beneficial for China. China should be worried about the fact that Russia is willing to send troops in surrounding countries when they feel their interests are in danger. China doesn't need Russia more than it needs the West.

Edited by Stephan90

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I cucked Alex Jones

 

 

Stay a night on the streets of Chicago and tell me the US isn't f*cked up. And that's just 1 city.

Sure there are some f*cked up neighborhoods and areas here and there. but at least we dont have people rioting and burning sh*t on the national mall. Even the stupid occupy protests never got anywhere near this sh*t. Hell the worst riot you will see around here these days is when a local sports team wins a championship.

 

 

Dude, did you have to derail the topic and make it about the USA. This is not about the USA, it's about Ukraine. And yes, US has had it's fair share of f*cked-upness. Look at the LA. Riots. Anyway, all that is irrelevant.

 

It's sad to see people dying in these riots.

 

You're about a week late bro.

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Svip

Chinas foreign minister said that he is on Russia's side. How stupid is that?! Honestly, I don't understand in what possible way this step can be beneficial for China. China should be worried about the fact that Russia is willing to send troops in surrounding countries when they feel their interests are in danger. China doesn't need Russia more than it needs the West.

 

One should note that Russia has so far not sent any additional troops to Crimea than the ones that were already stationed there. I don't recall Russia having military bases in China, but I could be wrong.

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Ryan

Chinas foreign minister said that he is on Russia's side. How stupid is that?! Honestly, I don't understand in what possible way this step can be beneficial for China. China should be worried about the fact that Russia is willing to send troops in surrounding countries when they feel their interests are in danger. China doesn't need Russia more than it needs the West.

It's beneficial for China since Russia is one of their closest allies. Together, Russia and China have many economic ties, including 85 billion dollar deal that was signed last year that will see Russia export one-hundred million tons of crude oil to China over ten years. In addition to this, Russia and China also closely associate with each other on security issues in the Asia-Pacific region and have close military ties, frequently engaging in joint exercises. Further to that, much of China's nuclear technology has been bought from Russia as has much of their military technology. Russia and China are both developing nations striving to become developed nations and have allied themselves together in to aid in their development. Russia losing China or China losing Russia would be a big blow to both parties.

 

For more on Russia - China relations, I suggest you read this article.

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gtamann123

 

 

 

Stay a night on the streets of Chicago and tell me the US isn't f*cked up. And that's just 1 city.

Sure there are some f*cked up neighborhoods and areas here and there. but at least we dont have people rioting and burning sh*t on the national mall. Even the stupid occupy protests never got anywhere near this sh*t. Hell the worst riot you will see around here these days is when a local sports team wins a championship.

 

Dude, did you have to derail the topic and make it about the USA. This is not about the USA, it's about Ukraine. And yes, US has had it's fair share of f*cked-upness. Look at the LA. Riots. Anyway, all that is irrelevant.

 

It's sad to see people dying in these riots.

That was the very first reply in the topic. And ten pages later you're going to accuse me of derailing the topic?

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poklane

 

Russia have issued an ultimatum to Ukrainian troops in the Crimea: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26424738

The Russian ministry of defence has denied it.

 

Now lets hope the ultimatum is actually complete bullsh*t, because if it is real, the Russian ministry of defense obviously wouldn't confirm it if someone asks. I'll personally will keep my eyes on Ukraine until at least 4am.

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Svip

 

 

Russia have issued an ultimatum to Ukrainian troops in the Crimea: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26424738

The Russian ministry of defence has denied it.

 

Now lets hope the ultimatum is actually complete bullsh*t, because if it is real, the Russian ministry of defense obviously wouldn't confirm it if someone asks. I'll personally will keep my eyes on Ukraine until at least 4am.

 

 

What's the point of an ultimatum if you are just going to deny it if someone asks? That's completely counter-intuitive to the purpose of an ultimatum?

 

You might then ask; why is the Ukrainian defence ministry confirming for BBC that there was an ultimatum sent? If they knew it was fake, they'd know that Russia would simply deny it and Ukraine would look less credible.

 

Either someone in Ukraine isn't thinking, or someone faked an ultimatum to the Ukrainians. Perhaps with the hope that it might start hostilities. This hasn't happened yet. Russia is unlikely to shoot first. Ukraine should not make the same mistake Georgia did in 2008.

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high91

This is a good answer, and pretty much what I think all round. ^^

 

Sometimes it just does not make sense..I hate this sort of thing its bull.

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Svip

Moreover, what Putin is doing is so far working. Ukraine is backing off from repealing a language law that allowed Russian to be a secondary official languages in regions where more than 10% of the population are ethnic Russians. It should be noted that this law also permits other languages, such as Hungarian in the Southwestern parts of Ukraine.

 

Putin wants to show the ultra-nationalists in Ukraine that any aggression or discrimination against ethnic Russians in Ukraine will not be tolerated.

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Raavi

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

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Svip

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

 

Indeed. But Putin claims to be pre-emptive, particularly alluding to similar actions taken by the West over the past two decades, like Iraq and Serbia.

 

And while there not be violence, it could also be lowering their rights as citizens.

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Max

 

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

 

Indeed. But Putin claims to be pre-emptive, particularly alluding to similar actions taken by the West over the past two decades, like Iraq and Serbia.

 

And while there not be violence, it could also be lowering their rights as citizens.

 

In the interest of fairness though, Tartar's are likely to be as at risk under Russian control as any ethnic Russians under Ukrainian control.

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Svip

 

 

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

 

Indeed. But Putin claims to be pre-emptive, particularly alluding to similar actions taken by the West over the past two decades, like Iraq and Serbia.

 

And while there not be violence, it could also be lowering their rights as citizens.

 

In the interest of fairness though, Tartar's are likely to be as at risk under Russian control as any ethnic Russians under Ukrainian control.

 

 

Indeed. That's also why I take Putin's 'defence of human rights' agenda with a grain of salt.

 

He has legitimate concerns about the new government in Ukraine, but stones and glass houses and all that.

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Frantz Fuchs

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

 

Refer to my older post. The US has been getting away with all sorts of sh*t since WW2. No one even cares about it. When other countries do the same the whole world goes crazy.

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Frank Brown

 

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

 

Refer to my older post. The US has been getting away with all sorts of sh*t since WW2. No one even cares about it. When other countries do the same the whole world goes crazy.

 

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. You might not agree with the U.S. invading Iraq or Afghanistan, but I think that invading a terrorist haven and a possible enemy with WMDs is a stronger argument than "Uh. They might hurt our ethnically Russian brethren."

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Der_Don

 

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

 

Refer to my older post. The US has been getting away with all sorts of sh*t since WW2. No one even cares about it. When other countries do the same the whole world goes crazy.

 

I have to agree here. The way the United States are now presenting themselves as the good guys is downright ridicolous.

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Frantz Fuchs

 

 

That still doesn't justify occupying and essentially land grabbing Crimea, there hasn't been any (organised) violence against ethnic Russians on the Crimean Peninsula or anything else that would justify their actions.

 

Refer to my older post. The US has been getting away with all sorts of sh*t since WW2. No one even cares about it. When other countries do the same the whole world goes crazy.

 

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. You might not agree with the U.S. invading Iraq or Afghanistan, but I think that invading a terrorist haven and a possible enemy with WMDs is a stronger argument than "Uh. They might hurt our ethnically Russian brethren."

 

 

"possible WMD" meaning total BS lie?

 

You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text" - Kerry

 

interventions_map.png

 

It is actually frustrating how US always boasts about human rights and other sh*t, knowing what they have been doing.

Edited by Frantz Fuchs

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Raavi

What the US has or hasn't done in the past couldn't be more irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Edited by Raavi

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Raavi

The US isn't occupying Crimea under false pretenses, Russia is and considering this thread is about "Military Crisis in Ukraine" it is in fact irrelevant.

Edited by Raavi

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Frank Brown

The US isn't occupying Crimea under false pretenses, Russia is and considering this thread is about "Military Crisis in Ukraine" it is in fact irrelevant.

 

Either way it's irrelevant. They are three completely different situations.

  • We invaded Iraq because we thought they had WMDs (which they did, just not the ones we assumed.)
  • We invaded Afghanistan because it is/was a haven for terrorists.
  • Russia is invading Crimea for...?

Do you see how they are not the same thing, Frantz?

Edited by Vlynor

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sivispacem

The US isn't occupying Crimea under false pretenses, Russia is and considering this thread is about "Military Crisis in Ukraine" it is in fact irrelevant.

This.

 

If you want to bitch about US foreign policy, go to D&D. If you want to draw analogies with US interventions in the past, then feel free but a) don't skirt around the issue- actually say things rather than vaguely implying them, b) justify yourself a bit better and c) prepare for a lot of people who rely on things a bit more informative than infographics from questionable sources (there's a lot of "alleged" interventions listed there as being definitive- interesting to note you cribbed it from Juan Cole's website given that he's a support of the idea of liberal interventionism but I digress) to shout you down.

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I cucked Alex Jones

Iraq was a police state where human rights were nonexistent and committed acts of genocide against its populace. The current Ukrainian government has never killed a Russian. You can argue whether or not the invasion of Iraq was morally correct, but comparing it to the Russia invasion of Crimea is ridiculous

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PetkaGtA

BTW guys does Russian army did anything(killed or beat anyone?) since they "invaded" in Ukraine? Why every time Russia do something like that is a threat to world? It's sad to see how social media manipulating both sides to make them angry at eachother.

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Max

BTW guys does Russian army did anything(killed or beat anyone?) since they "invaded" in Ukraine? Why every time Russia do something like that is a threat to world? It's sad to see how social media manipulating both sides to make them angry at eachother.

As K^2 notably and others have pointed out, Russia is doing all it can to provoke the Ukrainians to draw first blood, after which it could argue all subsequent actions are in self-defence. So far the Ukrainian military, government and people have shown remarkable restraint.

 

So far this military takeover of Crimea has been bloodless. It is possible that it could remain so. However, if the Russians were to push into Eastern Ukraine under the same pretext they entered Crimea then it is almost certain that the Ukrainian military would respond. It is likely that after days of uncertainty and tension there are some very itchy trigger fingers on both sides and the stakes are terribly high.

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