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acmilano

Military Crisis in Ukraine

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Svip

Care to elaborate? What gives you the impression that President Obama would have used drones against rioting in the United States?

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cj2000

Care to elaborate? What gives you the impression that President Obama would have used drones against rioting in the United States?

Sending drones to kill somebody, he don´t like, is the only answer Obama knows.

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Svip

 

Care to elaborate? What gives you the impression that President Obama would have used drones against rioting in the United States?

Sending drones to kill somebody, he don´t like, is the only answer Obama knows.

 

Care to cite some examples of when President Obama have done that?

 

And also, why is Donald Trump still alive then?

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cj2000

 

 

Care to elaborate? What gives you the impression that President Obama would have used drones against rioting in the United States?

Sending drones to kill somebody, he don´t like, is the only answer Obama knows.

 

Care to cite some examples of when President Obama have done that?

 

And also, why is Donald Trump still alive then?

 

So why didn´t you asked about Putin, who is the person, Obama hate the most?

Obama can do that only with people, having no posibility to response.

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Svip

Since you brought him up, why is President Putin still alive then? Has President Obama even attempted or suggested to kill him with a drone? I must say I am disappointed in President Obama, since I would have expected a lot more people to be dead by now. So not only a tyrant but also weak?

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Darth Yokel

So why didn´t you asked about Putin, who is the person, Obama hate the most?

Obama can do that only with people, having no posibility to response.

Are you literally 8 years old?

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sivispacem

Let's keep the posts here within the standards of D&D. Nonsensical one liners aren't welcome here.

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cj2000

Since you brought him up, why is President Putin still alive then? Has President Obama even attempted or suggested to kill him with a drone? I must say I am disappointed in President Obama, since I would have expected a lot more people to be dead by now. So not only a tyrant but also weak?

I already gave you the answer, Putin can strike back and Obama is to spineless, to mess with somebody like that.

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Tchuck

 

Since you brought him up, why is President Putin still alive then? Has President Obama even attempted or suggested to kill him with a drone? I must say I am disappointed in President Obama, since I would have expected a lot more people to be dead by now. So not only a tyrant but also weak?

I already gave you the answer, Putin can strike back and Obama is to spineless, to mess with somebody like that.

 

 

Spineless? Not assassinating one of the world's strongest leaders and throwing the world into a nuclear war is spineless? What the f*ck have you been smoking?

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cj2000

 

 

Since you brought him up, why is President Putin still alive then? Has President Obama even attempted or suggested to kill him with a drone? I must say I am disappointed in President Obama, since I would have expected a lot more people to be dead by now. So not only a tyrant but also weak?

I already gave you the answer, Putin can strike back and Obama is to spineless, to mess with somebody like that.

 

 

Spineless? Not assassinating one of the world's strongest leaders and throwing the world into a nuclear war is spineless? What the f*ck have you been smoking?

 

May be spineles wath the wrong word, googletranslator gave me.

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Sunrise Driver

 

 

Since you brought him up, why is President Putin still alive then? Has President Obama even attempted or suggested to kill him with a drone? I must say I am disappointed in President Obama, since I would have expected a lot more people to be dead by now. So not only a tyrant but also weak?

I already gave you the answer, Putin can strike back and Obama is to spineless, to mess with somebody like that.

 

 

Spineless? Not assassinating one of the world's strongest leaders and throwing the world into a nuclear war is spineless? What the f*ck have you been smoking?

 

Frankly russia can't be proper lead belligerent in a world war. So everytime I hear about WW3 between USA and russia, I LOL hard. China - yes. UK, France - yes. russia - no never. It won't be a war. It'll be annihilation

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Svip

China, UK and France also have nukes. But if nukes gets involved, it will be annihilation.

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cj2000

China, UK and France also have nukes. But if nukes gets involved, it will be annihilation.

Still think annihilation to be the wrong word, as not only USA and Russia will be destroied, but the whole world.

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Svip

 

China, UK and France also have nukes. But if nukes gets involved, it will be annihilation.

Still think annihilation to be the wrong word, as not only USA and Russia will be destroied, but the whole world.

 

That sounds exactly like annihilation.

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Cripto136

So what's everyone's thought on Operation Atlantic Resolve?

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acmilano

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39363416

 

A huge arms depot in eastern Ukraine exploded. Could be separatist or an accident,but if it is an sabotage it could restart some hostilitis in Donbass area again.

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Constant K

"According to preliminary data ... as a result of sabotage…fire and explosions caused the detonation of ammunition at several sites storing rockets and artillery weapons," chief military prosecutor Anatoly Matios had written on Facebook.

 

Witnesses had heard a sound resembling that of a drone in flight before the blasts began.

 

Ukrainian Defence Minister also said as much that the fire had likely been staged by Russian or separatist saboteurs using a drone. Also, this was not the first time the depot was attacked.

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cj2000

 

 

China, UK and France also have nukes. But if nukes gets involved, it will be annihilation.

Still think annihilation to be the wrong word, as not only USA and Russia will be destroied, but the whole world.

 

That sounds exactly like annihilation.

 

Read somwhere the explanation of annihilation as pair destruction and this explanation doesn´t feat in this case.

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Svip

Annihilation means total destruction. If the whole world is destroyed, the world has been annihilated.

 

I am not sure what 'pair destruction' is supposed to mean. But annihilation is more severe than destruction.

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cj2000

Annihilation means total destruction. If the whole world is destroyed, the world has been annihilated.

 

I am not sure what 'pair destruction' is supposed to mean. But annihilation is more severe than destruction.

Thanks for explanation, this was an other case Wikipedia gave a wrong explanation.

So if keeping with your explanation, annihilation is the right word.

Edited by cj2000

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Svip

 

Annihilation means total destruction. If the whole world is destroyed, the world has been annihilated.

 

I am not sure what 'pair destruction' is supposed to mean. But annihilation is more severe than destruction.

Thanks for explanation, this was an other case Wikipedia gave a wrong explanation.

So if keeping with your explanation, annihilation is the right word.

 

Ah, that's because Wikipedia is talking about the concept in physics. That's similar but somewhat different. It's what happens when a particle collides with an antiparticle, and they both cease to exist. It's the same with matter and antimatter - supposedly - that when they touch, they annihilate one another.

 

In terms of nuclear annihilation - or human extinction - the term is more associated with Mutual assured destruction, a term referring to the strategy that suggested if one side with nuclear weapons attacked another side with nuclear weapons, they would eventually wipe each other out. Therefore effectively - at least in theory - preventing either side from making the first strike, because their own demise would have been certain.

 

Why it's called 'mutual assured destruction' and not say 'mutual assured annihilation' is purely a style choice, particularly because 'mutual assured destruction' can be abbreviated as 'MAD'.

 

Perhaps, Wilkie Collins wrote it best in 1870 during the Franco-Prussian war (before the invention of the nuclear bomb):

 

 

"I begin to believe in only one civilizing influence—the discovery one of these days of a destructive agent so terrible that War shall mean annihilation and men's fears will force them to keep the peace."

Edited by Svip

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Triple Vacuum Seal

well put by Collins. One wonders if the mere fear of annihilation is a sufficient deterrent. While the technocratic upper echelon of the political and military establishment are relatively devoid of ideology/religion in practice (with the alarming exception of Judeo-Christian rapture musings among conservative elites), their collective ability to end the world can be (and arguably has been) an extortionate tool for controlling the general global public. As it stands now, we have been conditioned to capitulate to the profiteers of these tensions in order to reduce them. When rich old, delusional, miserable, pseudo-cynical men are at the helm, this model loses sustainability as those responsible for fearing annihilation on our behalf have the least to lose. I'm clearly no expert on these things. Just my two cents.

 

 

 

It will be interesting to see what the Trump administration's response if any to Russian aggression in Ukraine will be. More tests to NATO's resolve under Trump leadership are sure to come. There aren't much specifics regarding his Russia policy. As of now, it's some variant of "pay up NATO members or those of you in Eastern Europe better start learning Russian." I honestly think Ukraine will be relegated back to Kremlin puppet state status. Any large scale conflict will surely result in another mass migration to western Europe, a Ukrainian diaspora, or a well-supported Ukrainian insurgency if not all 3. Poland would be spared to the extent that it becomes a further militarized buffer state. All bad news for the funding and political feasibility of NATO in its current undermined state. Putin is creating conditions that politically incentivize short term western isolationism from the Ukraine conflict in lieu of any increased commitments to NATO in that region.

 

 

On the bright side, foreign affairs leaders in Trump's cabinet are no longer far off from an HRC admin. as far as Russian containment goes. There's even talk of Fiona Hill coming on board I think. He's got these good people here and there, so he's got some good advise at his disposal. Trump just needs to relinquish his control on policy towards Russia because he's to unwise to be advised on these matters otherwise.

Edited by Triple Vacuum Seal

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acmilano

https://www.ft.com/content/633fb638-d9ab-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

It seems that situation in Ukraine is again heating up

 

 


Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who served as a regional governor in Ukraine was freed from a police van by hundreds of his supporters after he was dragged from his apartment in Kiev by security forces on Tuesday. The day of high drama began hours earlier when Mr Saakashvili climbed on to a roof as armed police stormed his apartment. He was taken from the building and into a police van as protesters swarmed across the street and later ripped off the vehicle’s doors allowing him to escape. The move against Mr Saakashvili is the latest twist in a feud between Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, and the exiled Georgian leader who was invited to govern Odessa in 2015 but fell out with the government. Since falling out with Mr Poroshenko, Mr Saakashvili has reinvented himself as a Ukraine opposition figure. He returned to Ukraine in September after being stripped of his citizenship while in Poland. His supporters broke across at a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. He has since led a movement in Ukraine calling for Mr Poroshenko’s removal. When authorities tried to block his return from Poland to Ukraine, supporters broke across a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. On Tuesday, addressing his supporters from the roof, Mr Saakashvili said: “Don’t submit to the will of Poroshenko. Poroshenko is a criminal . . . a thief and traitor.” As as he was being manhandled by police, Mr Saakashvili accused the Ukrainian president of colluding with oligarchs to stall reforms and of profiting from corruption.

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cj2000

 

https://www.ft.com/content/633fb638-d9ab-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

It seems that situation in Ukraine is again heating up

 

 

Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who served as a regional governor in Ukraine was freed from a police van by hundreds of his supporters after he was dragged from his apartment in Kiev by security forces on Tuesday. The day of high drama began hours earlier when Mr Saakashvili climbed on to a roof as armed police stormed his apartment. He was taken from the building and into a police van as protesters swarmed across the street and later ripped off the vehicle’s doors allowing him to escape. The move against Mr Saakashvili is the latest twist in a feud between Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, and the exiled Georgian leader who was invited to govern Odessa in 2015 but fell out with the government. Since falling out with Mr Poroshenko, Mr Saakashvili has reinvented himself as a Ukraine opposition figure. He returned to Ukraine in September after being stripped of his citizenship while in Poland. His supporters broke across at a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. He has since led a movement in Ukraine calling for Mr Poroshenko’s removal. When authorities tried to block his return from Poland to Ukraine, supporters broke across a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. On Tuesday, addressing his supporters from the roof, Mr Saakashvili said: “Don’t submit to the will of Poroshenko. Poroshenko is a criminal . . . a thief and traitor.” As as he was being manhandled by police, Mr Saakashvili accused the Ukrainian president of colluding with oligarchs to stall reforms and of profiting from corruption.

 

But that not related to military crysis, just some internal conflict between politicians.

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acmilano

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/633fb638-d9ab-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

It seems that situation in Ukraine is again heating up

 

 

Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who served as a regional governor in Ukraine was freed from a police van by hundreds of his supporters after he was dragged from his apartment in Kiev by security forces on Tuesday. The day of high drama began hours earlier when Mr Saakashvili climbed on to a roof as armed police stormed his apartment. He was taken from the building and into a police van as protesters swarmed across the street and later ripped off the vehicle’s doors allowing him to escape. The move against Mr Saakashvili is the latest twist in a feud between Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, and the exiled Georgian leader who was invited to govern Odessa in 2015 but fell out with the government. Since falling out with Mr Poroshenko, Mr Saakashvili has reinvented himself as a Ukraine opposition figure. He returned to Ukraine in September after being stripped of his citizenship while in Poland. His supporters broke across at a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. He has since led a movement in Ukraine calling for Mr Poroshenko’s removal. When authorities tried to block his return from Poland to Ukraine, supporters broke across a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. On Tuesday, addressing his supporters from the roof, Mr Saakashvili said: “Don’t submit to the will of Poroshenko. Poroshenko is a criminal . . . a thief and traitor.” As as he was being manhandled by police, Mr Saakashvili accused the Ukrainian president of colluding with oligarchs to stall reforms and of profiting from corruption.

 

But that not related to military crysis, just some internal conflict between politicians.

 

It started similar to this,four years ago with protests and overthrowing of former President Yanukovytch. It have a lot of info about that in first pages of this topic.Now Sakashvilli and his followers wants to overthrow current President Poroshenko accusing him for corruption. We will see what consquences could that bring to entire situation in Ukraine.

Edited by acmilano

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cj2000

 

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/633fb638-d9ab-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

It seems that situation in Ukraine is again heating up

 

 

Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who served as a regional governor in Ukraine was freed from a police van by hundreds of his supporters after he was dragged from his apartment in Kiev by security forces on Tuesday. The day of high drama began hours earlier when Mr Saakashvili climbed on to a roof as armed police stormed his apartment. He was taken from the building and into a police van as protesters swarmed across the street and later ripped off the vehicle’s doors allowing him to escape. The move against Mr Saakashvili is the latest twist in a feud between Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, and the exiled Georgian leader who was invited to govern Odessa in 2015 but fell out with the government. Since falling out with Mr Poroshenko, Mr Saakashvili has reinvented himself as a Ukraine opposition figure. He returned to Ukraine in September after being stripped of his citizenship while in Poland. His supporters broke across at a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. He has since led a movement in Ukraine calling for Mr Poroshenko’s removal. When authorities tried to block his return from Poland to Ukraine, supporters broke across a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. On Tuesday, addressing his supporters from the roof, Mr Saakashvili said: “Don’t submit to the will of Poroshenko. Poroshenko is a criminal . . . a thief and traitor.” As as he was being manhandled by police, Mr Saakashvili accused the Ukrainian president of colluding with oligarchs to stall reforms and of profiting from corruption.

 

But that not related to military crysis, just some internal conflict between politicians.

 

It started similar to this,four years ago with protests and overthrowing of former President Yanukovytch. It have a lot of info about that in first pages of this topic.Now Sakashvilli and his followers wants to overthrow current President Poroshenko accusing him for corruption. We will see what consquences could that bring to entire situation in Ukraine.

 

The situation today has nothing to do with the one 4 years ago, even if some people could see similarities. 4 years ago it was a begining of proxi conflict between USA and Russia, where USA suported fraction won. Today we just having a conflict between 2 US suported politicians, so no way it can lead to military conflict.

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acmilano

 

 

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/633fb638-d9ab-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

It seems that situation in Ukraine is again heating up

 

 

Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who served as a regional governor in Ukraine was freed from a police van by hundreds of his supporters after he was dragged from his apartment in Kiev by security forces on Tuesday. The day of high drama began hours earlier when Mr Saakashvili climbed on to a roof as armed police stormed his apartment. He was taken from the building and into a police van as protesters swarmed across the street and later ripped off the vehicle’s doors allowing him to escape. The move against Mr Saakashvili is the latest twist in a feud between Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, and the exiled Georgian leader who was invited to govern Odessa in 2015 but fell out with the government. Since falling out with Mr Poroshenko, Mr Saakashvili has reinvented himself as a Ukraine opposition figure. He returned to Ukraine in September after being stripped of his citizenship while in Poland. His supporters broke across at a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. He has since led a movement in Ukraine calling for Mr Poroshenko’s removal. When authorities tried to block his return from Poland to Ukraine, supporters broke across a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. On Tuesday, addressing his supporters from the roof, Mr Saakashvili said: “Don’t submit to the will of Poroshenko. Poroshenko is a criminal . . . a thief and traitor.” As as he was being manhandled by police, Mr Saakashvili accused the Ukrainian president of colluding with oligarchs to stall reforms and of profiting from corruption.

 

But that not related to military crysis, just some internal conflict between politicians.

 

It started similar to this,four years ago with protests and overthrowing of former President Yanukovytch. It have a lot of info about that in first pages of this topic.Now Sakashvilli and his followers wants to overthrow current President Poroshenko accusing him for corruption. We will see what consquences could that bring to entire situation in Ukraine.

 

The situation today has nothing to do with the one 4 years ago, even if some people could see similarities. 4 years ago it was a begining of proxi conflict between USA and Russia, where USA suported fraction won. Today we just having a conflict between 2 US suported politicians, so no way it can lead to military conflict.

 

If they are both supported by USA,then why don't USA influence them not to go in public conflict and weaken US position that way? Maybe one of them lost US support,let say Poroshenko, and now Sakashvilli is going to replace him with US blessing? Just a speculation.

Political conflicts could reignite a war again. The one that win the power struggle could launch another offensive on Donetsk and Luhansk to consolidate power.

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cj2000

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/633fb638-d9ab-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

It seems that situation in Ukraine is again heating up

 

 

Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who served as a regional governor in Ukraine was freed from a police van by hundreds of his supporters after he was dragged from his apartment in Kiev by security forces on Tuesday. The day of high drama began hours earlier when Mr Saakashvili climbed on to a roof as armed police stormed his apartment. He was taken from the building and into a police van as protesters swarmed across the street and later ripped off the vehicle’s doors allowing him to escape. The move against Mr Saakashvili is the latest twist in a feud between Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, and the exiled Georgian leader who was invited to govern Odessa in 2015 but fell out with the government. Since falling out with Mr Poroshenko, Mr Saakashvili has reinvented himself as a Ukraine opposition figure. He returned to Ukraine in September after being stripped of his citizenship while in Poland. His supporters broke across at a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. He has since led a movement in Ukraine calling for Mr Poroshenko’s removal. When authorities tried to block his return from Poland to Ukraine, supporters broke across a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. On Tuesday, addressing his supporters from the roof, Mr Saakashvili said: “Don’t submit to the will of Poroshenko. Poroshenko is a criminal . . . a thief and traitor.” As as he was being manhandled by police, Mr Saakashvili accused the Ukrainian president of colluding with oligarchs to stall reforms and of profiting from corruption.

 

But that not related to military crysis, just some internal conflict between politicians.

 

It started similar to this,four years ago with protests and overthrowing of former President Yanukovytch. It have a lot of info about that in first pages of this topic.Now Sakashvilli and his followers wants to overthrow current President Poroshenko accusing him for corruption. We will see what consquences could that bring to entire situation in Ukraine.

 

The situation today has nothing to do with the one 4 years ago, even if some people could see similarities. 4 years ago it was a begining of proxi conflict between USA and Russia, where USA suported fraction won. Today we just having a conflict between 2 US suported politicians, so no way it can lead to military conflict.

 

If they are both supported by USA,then why don't USA influence them not to go in public conflict and weaken US position that way? Maybe one of them lost US support,let say Poroshenko, and now Sakashvilli is going to replace him with US blessing? Just a speculation.

Political conflicts could reignite a war again. The one that win the power struggle could launch another offensive on Donetsk and Luhansk to consolidate power.

 

It´s simple, the new administration led by Trump, don´t really care so much about Ukraine as the previous one, Posibly Trump likes Sakashvilli more since Poroshenko suported Clinton and tallked bad about Trump, but this still will not lead to another military crysis.

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acmilano

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/633fb638-d9ab-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

It seems that situation in Ukraine is again heating up

 

 

Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president who served as a regional governor in Ukraine was freed from a police van by hundreds of his supporters after he was dragged from his apartment in Kiev by security forces on Tuesday. The day of high drama began hours earlier when Mr Saakashvili climbed on to a roof as armed police stormed his apartment. He was taken from the building and into a police van as protesters swarmed across the street and later ripped off the vehicle’s doors allowing him to escape. The move against Mr Saakashvili is the latest twist in a feud between Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine’s president, and the exiled Georgian leader who was invited to govern Odessa in 2015 but fell out with the government. Since falling out with Mr Poroshenko, Mr Saakashvili has reinvented himself as a Ukraine opposition figure. He returned to Ukraine in September after being stripped of his citizenship while in Poland. His supporters broke across at a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. He has since led a movement in Ukraine calling for Mr Poroshenko’s removal. When authorities tried to block his return from Poland to Ukraine, supporters broke across a border crossing and were able to bundle Mr Saakashvili back into the country. On Tuesday, addressing his supporters from the roof, Mr Saakashvili said: “Don’t submit to the will of Poroshenko. Poroshenko is a criminal . . . a thief and traitor.” As as he was being manhandled by police, Mr Saakashvili accused the Ukrainian president of colluding with oligarchs to stall reforms and of profiting from corruption.

 

But that not related to military crysis, just some internal conflict between politicians.

 

It started similar to this,four years ago with protests and overthrowing of former President Yanukovytch. It have a lot of info about that in first pages of this topic.Now Sakashvilli and his followers wants to overthrow current President Poroshenko accusing him for corruption. We will see what consquences could that bring to entire situation in Ukraine.

 

The situation today has nothing to do with the one 4 years ago, even if some people could see similarities. 4 years ago it was a begining of proxi conflict between USA and Russia, where USA suported fraction won. Today we just having a conflict between 2 US suported politicians, so no way it can lead to military conflict.

 

If they are both supported by USA,then why don't USA influence them not to go in public conflict and weaken US position that way? Maybe one of them lost US support,let say Poroshenko, and now Sakashvilli is going to replace him with US blessing? Just a speculation.

Political conflicts could reignite a war again. The one that win the power struggle could launch another offensive on Donetsk and Luhansk to consolidate power.

 

It´s simple, the new administration led by Trump, don´t really care so much about Ukraine as the previous one, Posibly Trump likes Sakashvilli more since Poroshenko suported Clinton and tallked bad about Trump, but this still will not lead to another military crysis.

 

Hm,that's good possibility. Anyway,its good if that situation is solved without bloodshed. Ukraine already suffered enough.

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K^2

There's a connection to the on-going conflict. Poroshenko has a lot of financial interests in Russia. While he's not pro-Russian, strictly speaking, he has been avoiding doing anything that would jeopardize his interests there. A lot of people blame his weak response for Crimean occupation and the ongoing civil war.

 

On the other hand, Saakashvili was president of Georgia during Russian invasion of that country. He's mega-pissed at Russian gov't and almost as pissed about some Ukrainian politicians doing little about Russian aggression. Consequently, he's very open about his criticism of certain individuals in Ukrainian gov't, and he gets a lot of popular support out of that. There's growing sentiment in Ukraine that revolution didn't change a whole lot in who runs the country and how.

 

Consequently, no, I don't see this doing anything to increase the tensions in the Eastern Ukraine, and yes, this is certainly an internal matter, but it can be, in many ways, seen as fallout from the military aggression that the Eastern region has been a subject to.

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