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Pavlov

Car Talk Topic

Recommended Posts

Noale

I'm gonna be washing and detailing my car this weekend (as soon as this annoying rain clears) and was wondering about clay bars. I've looked at some videos and forum posts regarding using modeling clay or mounting putty as opposed to expensive clay bar. I'm not opposed to trying it out but I really don't wanna risk micro scratches since I don't have anything to buff them out.

 

Any one have any experience using different clay other than clay bar or mitts?

 

I've only used clay bars on my cars, but assuming whatever clay you use doesn't have contaminants, you could try it on an inconspicuous area first.

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Pavle

quick question

 

what's the best way to respray the plastic on a side view mirror?

 

s-l300.jpg

 

^mine is just like it except someone tried to paint it white but it looks horrible. do i just use like a regular spray can or is there something 'speical' for this kinda stuff?

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sivispacem

Textured or smooth plastic? If smooth I'd sand it back but that'll ruin the finish on the grained plastic you often get.

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DOUGL4S1

Just discovered that the GasKings dude got arrested for scamming people.

 

Nothing of value was lost. Moving on...

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Noale

Anybody here happen to be familiar with the C3 Corvettes? (pre-1975) I just want to know what to look out for, or what I should be cautious about buying one in fair condition.

 

I'm looking to buy a classic car and the C3 Corvettes are growing on me, and aren't too expensive to start out with. I need the car to be 1975 or older. California smog laws are strict. My last built car required me to get a "hook up" for emissions testing, as nearly any engine mods are illegal here in California. As soon as I lost my smog technician hook up, I had to sell my car out of state. I don't want to deal with that hoop jumping nonsense anymore. Cars 1975 or older are smog exempt here in California. Meaning I do a full engine swap and build the motor as much as I want and nobody will bother me about it.

 

I'm open to other suggestions as well. I originally wanted to get a 29-31 Ford Model A and turn it into a rat rod. And if the right one comes up, I could end up doing that.

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sivispacem

BMW E9. With an S62B50.

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Noale

I'm not too familiar with BMW engines. How much aftermarket is available for that engine? I wanted to keep it American and finally go with a big V8. My last car had nearly 550 horsepower and ran low 10s in the 1/4. I'll be aiming to surpass that with this project, and the huge American V8 aftermarket is going to be real helpful with that.

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sivispacem

There's a pretty sizeable aftermarket actually. With intake, headers, decat and a tune you'd be somewhere around 450-475bhp. N/A they're good for up to about 650 though that gets pretty expensive. 550-800 achievable through FI, lower end on standard internals. A stage 2 supercharger kit from ESS will do circa 550 with basic supporting modifications and no IC.

 

What they aren't is particularly cheap to modify. The ESS kit is about five grand.

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Noale

Not sure if I'd like to FI a BMW motor to be honest. :lol: I think it would be great fun, but I already foresee something going wrong. I'd like to keep it NA as long as I can. As for pricing, $5000 for an FI kit doesn't seem too harsh if you're accustomed to the price of cars as a hobby. Unfortunately, these are simply the prices we have to deal with. My ETS turbo kit for my Evo set me back about $4500. My AEM 1313 standalone ECU was nearly $1400.

 

Even wheels can set you back a decent chunk of money. CCW is barely high-tier and this was what I paid for my forged LM20s. Add a set of wide Michelins and you're looking at another grand for tires.

BfQXslu.jpg

 

Not to discount the kit cost, as it is by no means pocket change. But a few thousand for performance parts is what I've come to accept. However, that's the reason I'm a member on so many car forums. The classifieds sections can be filled with absolute deals.

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sivispacem

Is there any particular reason you're after more power in your older chassis car? I don't deny the appeal of something classic packing a faintly ridiculous powerplant but you might go further with less- something 70s and European with a circa 350bhp powerplant and modern suspension sounds a wonderful thing.

 

A mate had a 2.5 M20 powered E21 3-series which we drove all through Germany, that was a joy to drive with even on cheap Gaz coilovers with ~175bhp. A properly sorted E21 running an S54 or similar high reving straight six from an M3, and about 360bhp, would be sensational.

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Noale

I completely agree that even low powered cars can be just as fun as high powered ones. But the main thing for me isn't just the fun, but the freedom to build how I want. I won't exactly be after power immediately after I buy the car. I'm after an older chassis that will likely start as a restoration project that may up snowballing into a more serious project (hence wanting something that I can easily up the power on). There is only one reason for that older chassis. Smog exemption. Let me take this time to explain the stupidity known as California car laws.

 

The only engine modifications allowed are basically drop-in filters (Not literally, but it may as well be that ridiculous). Any other engine mods require a CARB certification or exemption and a sticker on the part itself, otherwise it's illegal. CARB being the California Air Resources Board. I'd say 95% of manufacturers don't bother with CARB approval. So say you have a car with a highly modified engine and get pulled over. If he asks you to open the hood and he's unsure what is legal/illegal, he can send you to a state referee. State referees know exactly what to look for. He'll mark down anything illegal and tell you those parts must be returned to stock.

 

That's the risk that you run when you do engine mods in California. But let's pretend we're in a situation where we don't have to worry about cops or state refs. Well, you still have the other major problem. Passing smog testing and registering your car. This is what got me. The only reason I could register my car in California is because I paid the smog technician $300 to "pass" my car. Now, California has cracked down on these "buyable" smog techs, and I lost my hook up. I couldn't get it registered because it wouldn't pass smog. My standalone ECU was mounted on the passenger kickplate, and any smog tech would have laughed his ass off while giving me an automatic smog failure.

 

True, I could have just as much fun in a car with 200HP as a car with 800HP. However, buying a pre-75 chassis at least allows me the option to build to 800HP. Legally.

 

Something 70s and European could work. So long as it's pre-75.

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Lurch
Posted (edited)

How do kit cars fall? Could you register something like a Factory Five Cobra replica as a 60's Cobra? That's about the main older chassis I'd really want to put big power in. At least they can fit some pretty massive tires and there's plenty of aftermarket there. Otherwise, you are restomodding the Corvette or whatever other old muscle car into something that will probably cost more than a Cobra (and be slower). A Cobra with 400-500 whp, 2200 lbs. square set of 18x13/335 BFG's would be just ridiculously fast all around. There's a few people in my local SCCA chapter with cars fitting that bill and they're just insane.

Edited by Lurch

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Noale

If I recall, kit cars have their own set of rules to follow. You still have to deal with emissions, but they may be much more loose on what standards you have to meet. Since California is the toughest state to build a car in, you can likely find info online about the topic from people who have tried it. As for the Factory Five Cobra specifically, I highly doubt you could register it as a 60s Cobra. Your registration sheet will probably say the year that you built it. HOWEVER, they may assign a different year based on the engine you use. I only know the basics because my neighbor actually completed a Cobra kit car about 3 years ago, and I asked a few questions. The real pain in the ass with kit cars is making it official. You have to get the car inspected by basically every agency (DMV, CHP, BAR, etc) and get the greenlight from all of them. Regarding price, I know for a fact a C3 Corvette will cost me less than a replica Cobra. It will be a big enough difference that given the same budget, I could install a blower on the Corvette, and buy a spare motor.

 

As for that square set up of 18x13. It doesn't make much sense from my perspective. While it's true that a wider tire gives you a bigger tread patch, there's a point where the added rotational weight of the wheel and tire negate and possibly even hinder your traction gains. An SCCA car (for auto-x or whatever else they do) running 13" widths has gone too far in my opinion. I wouldn't even run that for just the rear. That's coming from someone who has actually ran 18x13s in the rear before. :lol:

 

5B7nHGJ.jpg

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sivispacem

15" wide rears are pretty common amongst stuff like T70 replicas used in competitive racing (be that sprint and other club class or historic endurance). The Gardner Douglas ones run 15x12" fronts and 15x15" rears.

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Noale
Posted (edited)

Fairly certain a T70 replica is on the far extreme side of things. If I show up to an SCCA event, I don't expect to see your average Joe running anything close to 13", or even 15".

 

Edit: I'd wager that a large fraction of SCCA cars would even struggle to fit an 12" wheel under their fenders.

Edited by Noale

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sivispacem

I put T70s in a similar class of "extremity" to most of the high power Cobra replicas.

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Lurch
Posted (edited)

I think most of your seriously prepped AutoX/track cars (or even a serious mountain running street car) running in the 500whp range is getting much more common seeing those wider wheels these days. It's definitely what the current trend is. Massive rubber, slight stretch seems to be the fast way nowadays and what cars at the pointy end are doing. Think cars like SCCA SOLO CAM class or Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge. At least nationally competitive stuff. And I think for most of your lighter wheels (CCW's and most of the custom size stuff like that), the weight increase of the extra inch or so of width isn't enough to offset how much better the tire reacts. Hence why you have Miatas now on 12's/295's.

 

As for price, how much do you think a nice Cobra would set you back? I know there's such a massive variance of what a kit would even start at. But I think it's at least a better starting platform. Most everything made in the 60's/70's is just kind of a dog to drive compared to modern stuff unless you just throw absolute f*cktons of money at it. I know people that have 80k in 1st gen Camaros. Too much for my blood. There are people building cool C2/C3's so I know it can be done, but I feel like any of them that I would want to drive (as in no strictly straight line cars), have a lot spent getting them up to that level of prep compared to other cars.

Edited by Lurch

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Noale
Posted (edited)
I put T70s in a similar class of "extremity" to most of the high power Cobra replicas.

Isn't the T70 notorious for it's wide rear fitment? What are the stock wheel widths for a T70 vs a Cobra?

 

I think most of your seriously prepped AutoX/track cars (or even a serious mountain running street car) running in the 500whp range is getting much more common seeing those wider wheels these days. It's definitely what the current trend is. Massive rubber, slight stretch seems to be the fast way nowadays and what cars at the pointy end are doing. Think cars like SCCA SOLO CAM class or Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge. At least nationally competitive stuff.

 

How many are really running 13s? In the rear maybe if they're running a Viper/Corvette (which is 13 or close to it from the factory). How about fronts?

Edited by Noale

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Lurch
Posted (edited)

Probably more common on something like ESP Mustangs/Camaros than Corvettes. Though I do see plenty of Corvettes running 335's/12's up front. They naturally have a ton of clearance up front but owners don't seem to like hacking up fenders as much. :lol:

 

I know on the Mustangs I've seen with the setups. Any 335/13 car had flares. The cars with 335/12's would fit under stock massaged fenders.

 

I think on C3's, the widest I've really seen up front is 315/11's. Still a decent chunk of tire on the road. I feel like Cobras probably have a bit more room though.

Edited by Lurch

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Noale

^ Can you provide a source for all of these Corvettes running 12s up front?

 

I think most of your seriously prepped AutoX/track cars (or even a serious mountain running street car) running in the 500whp range is getting much more common seeing those wider wheels these days. It's definitely what the current trend is. Massive rubber, slight stretch seems to be the fast way nowadays and what cars at the pointy end are doing. Think cars like SCCA SOLO CAM class or Optima Ultimate Street Car Challenge. At least nationally competitive stuff. And I think for most of your lighter wheels (CCW's and most of the custom size stuff like that), the weight increase of the extra inch or so of width isn't enough to offset how much better the tire reacts. Hence why you have Miatas now on 12's/295's.

As for price, how much do you think a nice Cobra would set you back? I know there's such a massive variance of what a kit would even start at. But I think it's at least a better starting platform. Most everything made in the 60's/70's is just kind of a dog to drive compared to modern stuff unless you just throw absolute f*cktons of money at it. I know people that have 80k in 1st gen Camaros. Too much for my blood. There are people building cool C2/C3's so I know it can be done, but I feel like any of them that I would want to drive (as in no strictly straight line cars), have a lot spent getting them up to that level of prep compared to other cars.

 

CCWs are heavy. Forged wheels in general are heavy. You get them for strength, not weight. This excludes track oriented forged wheels like Volk, which can be lighter than cast wheels because the forged nature of the wheel allows them use a design that is lighter. A few lbs might not seem significant when you lift it, but don't forget that it's a rotating mass. It's the same reason a huge brake disc can negatively impact your performance. Unsprung weight is a killer.

 

A nice Cobra for me would put me at the same price point as a used R35 GTR, which I'd get instead. Older cars are quite fun to drive. My friends got a 1969? Mini with hardly any power and I enjoyed driving it. It felt much more raw than a modern car, which is part of the appeal.

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Lurch
Posted (edited)

​
L33dMuC.jpg

kZm8hdW.jpg

 

Seems to usually be C4's. BSP cars too. I've seen some TT1 C5's at Nasa events running 12's up front with pretty cut fenders. Usually they're 11/315 up front though.

 

For C3's, I'm seeing a couple running 18x11's up front and a couple with 18x11.5's up front. Both with 315's.

 

11's
lrRWOvS.jpg

 

3VNn3Ps.jpg

 

11.5's

 

lifhiKm.jpg

 

rOJeCpt.jpg

 

Dlyti05.jpg

 

 

 

I figured $40k for a decent, fast Cobra with nice parts. Which is about what early R35's are now. I think a nice C3 would be more than that. I bet that yellow car there (which is the least "show car" of everything posted here) still has more in it than that.

Edited by Lurch

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Noale

Apart from the yellow C3, those look to all have modified fenders. I wouldn't consider a widebody to be a very common modification, which is why I'm surprised you see so many cars with 12s/13s. But maybe it's different there. Take photos next time you go to an event, I want to see what guys are running there.

 

As for that first C4 (the dark green one), those wheels look like they stick out a fair amount from the fenders. Does that guy have any rubbing? His suspension must be stiff as hell if he isn't.

 

With that said, I don't know why we've begun discussing autox/track. I'm not interested in a C3 for autox or track. If I wanted to do that, a C3 is the last thing I'd get. If anything, the closest performance spec my build would meet is Pro street. If I was going to track a car, I would have kept my Evo, registered it as Non-op and used it as a dedicated track car. It was already at 550HP and partly stripped out anyway.

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universetwisters

Is $70 regular for a wheel alignment? I went to Pep Boys instead of my regular mechanic just for the sake of convenience and I don't know if I got ripped off or if that's the average. I remember one place I went to, they charged $1,200 or something just to get a master cylinder and put it on. sh*t!

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Noale

That sounds right in line with a good alignment shop. Alignments will range from $30-150.

 

I pay $100 for my alignment, but it's a motorsport/racing shop that I trust to do good work. If you go to a generic/larger chain shop, you can expect to pay as low as $30-40 for an alignment. However, the guy doing your alignment at those places probably hasn't graduated high school yet and will half ass any job he can.

 

You get what you pay for. Just make sure they actually print out and hand you your alignment sheet, rather than just believing they did the work.

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gagemb9918

May 15, 2019. I will own an Evo. Preferably a VIII. Thats the goal and I felt it needed to be documented. Lets see how this goes

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Noale

Be prepared to have people constantly wanting to race you. :lol:

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Tchuck

I wish they'd make a new gen Evo. But looking at how Mitsubishi have been handling things, they've pretty much let go of the more fun segments of cars. The Eclipse came back as a cookie-cutter SUV, like, what!

Guarantee if they'd bring the Evo back, it would also take the shape of a SUV thing.

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gagemb9918

I dont think theyd come back with the evo. People have settled with the new Lancers. obviously its not the same for many but I dont think its enough to start producing them again.

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Noale

I've lost all hope for Mitsubishi. The Evo X was already horrible. The last true Evo was the CT9A chassis.

 

If Mitsubishi does make one, I expect it to be so slow, it goes backwards.

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Audi

I'd love an Evo 9 to build into a streetable drag car but insurance for an Evo or an STi (hell even a regular WRX) is too damn high. They also attract police like crazy, while the S4 blends in especially in that awfully boring silver lol.

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