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Vercetti42

What do you DISLIKE about GTA IV's story?

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Legomanarthur
2 hours ago, Lance_Vance89 said:

I just replayed GTA IV and this mission is the one that stood out for me. It really comes from out of nowhere and they don't even say to Niko that it's a bank robbery in the cutscene. It has zero build-up.

I guess that's the reason why we got prep missions in GTA V, I agree that Niko arriving at the very last moment seems a bit weird even though he's just supposed to be the gunman/driver. It would have been nice to have some kind of prep mission for this heist, like getting the plans of the bank or getting the PE4 with Derrick, something like that. It does not bother me too much because in the end you end up improvising your way towards the subway.

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Zello
Posted (edited)

 

I wanted The bank robbery to feel a bit more professional. They shouldn't have been so obvious.

 

But then again because it went kinda wrong it made it exciting and fun.

Edited by Zello

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Son of Zeus
12 hours ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:

- As a favour to Packie.

- The money of course. Call Roman after it and Niko even sounds quite smug having participated. He offers to leave in the cutscene because although he’d happily go along, he has enough contacts in the city by that point that he isn’t dependent on it. 

- Don’t see the problem with that one tbh, they’re pretty inconsequential to the Dimitri stuff. 

- Pretty sure it’s meant to be obvious she’s not what she seems, her date dialogue’s get more suspect each time. The surprise is when the reveal will happen, not if. 

- Hmm you're right I forgot about that.

- He had plenty of other contacts + Stevie's car thefts. More than enough money. Hitting the biggest bank in the city seems to be too big a risk and unnecessary. The missions feels odd and out-of-place. Whybring so much heat on yourself.

- I thought it was odd Roman was fooling around with Brucie just after being burned out of Hove Beach in Roman's Sorrow.

- I was referring to Niko being surprised when she betrays them in Snow Storm, even thought it was obvious from the start. He's like,'This is a joke, right?' 'I don't f*cking believe this'.

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SonOfLiberty
11 hours ago, iiCriminnaaL 49 said:

That's because the planning was done before Niko even gets involved.

Also the fact it kinda just happens out of nowhere encapsulates that the McRearies are incompetent and barely have any idea WTF they're doing. The fact the whole thing goes to sh*t is consistent with the (intentionally) lazy planning so the outcome feels plausible.

 

Quite often in other heists when things don't go correctly I feel like I've wasted my time with so much "planning" so I'm glad Three Leaf Clover doesn't waste multiple missions on "planning" like GTA V to make things comes to a screeching halt. It tells you to get a suit and a 4 door car. That's all the "planning" required and it doesn't f*ck around otherwise since Niko's not even the planner to begin with.

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)

I mean, if you look at the POV of one of the hired guns in V's heists I don't think Niko's POV as a hired gun in Three Leaf Clover is that different, they don't do set up missions either. The McRearys have it planned out and his role is just to help as a gunman so he didn't necessarily need to be involved in it.

 

Also agree with SonOfLiberty, the lack of planning on the McReary's part is the beauty of it! Their shoddy planning and bickering turns it into a shambles with Michael getting killed, and then it's salvaged because of some quick thinking and Niko's skills and some luck. It's what makes the mission so entertaining and different.

 

13 hours ago, Lance_Vance89 said:

I just replayed GTA IV and this mission is the one that stood out for me. It really comes from out of nowhere and they don't even say to Niko that it's a bank robbery in the cutscene. It has zero build-up.

I think the build up is the previous two missions he does with Packie. He's robbed two other places with him, and as he feels he doesn't have anything to lose and "doesn't care if he lives or dies" and has fallen into working as a hired gun for whoever to make money while hoping to find Darko he probably thinks yeah why not, I'll rob a bank with them too.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8

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SonOfLiberty
10 minutes ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

I mean, if you look at the POV of one of the hired guns in V's heists I don't think Niko's POV as a hired gun in Three Leaf Clover is that different, they don't do set up missions either. The McReary's have it planned out and his role is just to help as a gunman so he didn't necessarily need to be involved in it.

Ironically it's what Packie ends up as if you use him as heist crew member in GTA V. He's not involved in any of the direct planning and only knows vague details  Same with Michael and Franklin in the Merryweather heist. Trevor does all the planning and they're only let in later on.

 

Now with regards to Three Leaf Clover besides money I think Niko does it just for the thrill. He seems to get a huge kick out of it when he's talking with Gerry a little later. 

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Utopianthumbs
Posted (edited)

One issue I have with Three Leaf Clover is that the heist portion of the mission takes place entirely in a cutscene. They could have had us involved in crowd control,  place the explosives ourselves, drill the safe boxes, that sort of thing instead of reserving it for a cutscene. Sure it may seem like mundane tasks and may slow down an otherwise intense mission,  but imo it would be a great build up to the tension culminating in the epic shootout that happens later and really get us involved in the heist aspect of the mission. Three leaf clover is still one of the best missions in the series, just wish they made us involved in the robbery instead of making that part cutscene only. 

Edited by Utopianthumbs

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billiejoearmstrong8
50 minutes ago, Utopianthumbs said:

One issue I have with Three Leaf Clover is that the heist portion of the mission takes place entirely in a cutscene. They could have had us involved in crowd control,  place the explosives ourselves, drill the safe boxes, that sort of thing instead of reserving it for a cutscene. Sure it may seem like mundane tasks and may slow down an otherwise intense mission,  but imo it would be a great build up to the tension culminating in the epic shootout that happens later and really get us involved in the heist aspect of the mission. Three leaf clover is still one of the best missions in the series, just wish they made us involved in the robbery instead of making that part cutscene only. 

That's true. The cutscene is so good that I don't actually mind haha, but they could've given Niko a few things to do in the bank (even if it was after the cutscene, like if you just had to keep your gun on the hostages for a bit or have to use a grenade to get through an unexpected locked door or something).

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SonOfLiberty

I don't mind it plays out mostly in the cutscene. Niko still retrieves the money from the vault after it blows up anyway so it's not like we have no input at all. 

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Utopianthumbs
Posted (edited)

But that's all the heist portion of the mission that's not in a cut scene consists of though .It's just a simple task of walking to the vault and taking the money(and taking the money also takes place in a cutscene) while in GTA V in the Jewel store job for example you had to smash the cases to collect the jewelry in the time limit the hacker provides which is more engaging. Or if you don't like V,  GTA VC's the Job has you switch between checking on the hostages and finding the manager to break open the vault to collect the money.

 

I get that IV's heist was supposed to be more of an improvised robbery gone wrong than some well planned out one and also my complaint is a minor one I know., I just wish they had us more involved in the robbery is all. But then most don't seem to mind, so different strokes for different folks I guess.

Edited by Utopianthumbs

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SonOfLiberty
3 hours ago, Utopianthumbs said:

But that's all the heist portion of the mission that's not in a cut scene consists of though .It's just a simple task of walking to the vault and taking the money(and taking the money also takes place in a cutscene) while in GTA V in the Jewel store job for example you had to smash the cases to collect the jewelry in the time limit the hacker provides which is more engaging. Or if you don't like V,  GTA VC's the Job has you switch between checking on the hostages and finding the manager to break open the vault to collect the money.

 

I get that IV's heist was supposed to be more of an improvised robbery gone wrong than some well planned out one and also my complaint is a minor one I know., I just wish they had us more involved in the robbery is all. But then most don't seem to mind, so different strokes for different folks I guess.

Each to their own.:)

 

However if there's 1 thing I'd change about Three Leaf Clover it would definitely be the police response. 3 stars is too easy to escape IMO and I think it would've been way more intense if it was a full 6 star wanted level or 5 at the least since it's a pretty big crime and all when you kill a large number of cops.

 

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Utopianthumbs
12 minutes ago, SonOfLiberty said:

Each to their own.:)

 

However if there's 1 thing I'd change about Three Leaf Clover it would definitely be the police response. 3 stars is too easy to escape IMO and I think it would've been way more intense if it was a full 6 star wanted level or 5 at the least since it's a pretty big crime and all when you kill a large number of cops.

 

Doesn't it start off as 5 stars? I could be wrong though since I've been unable to play the HD era GTA's for a while so I'm just going of memory. Or do you mean it should have stayed at 5 stars throughout the mission?

 

Also I hope my previous post didn't come across as too argumentative,it's just that I enjoy discussing and debating stuff like this, I don't mean to come across as argumentative so if it appeared that way I apologize.

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SonOfLiberty
9 minutes ago, Utopianthumbs said:

Doesn't it start off as 5 stars? I could be wrong though since I've been unable to play the HD era GTA's for a while so I'm just going of memory. Or do you mean it should have stayed at 5 stars throughout the mission?

 

Also I hope my previous post didn't come across as too argumentative,it's just that I enjoy discussing and debating stuff like this, I don't mean to come across as argumentative so if it appeared that way I apologize.

I believe it does until you reach street level and escape in the getaway car then it reverts back to 3 stars. I think it should've stayed a 5 star wanted level all the way until we lost them for good.

 

And no need to apologise. Nothing about your post came/comes across as argumentative. It's all good buddy.👍

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billiejoearmstrong8

Also would've preferred 5 or 6 stars for the final escape. Have to point out I LOVE Three Leaf Clover so this is totally just nitpicking though lol

 

It's still miles better than any of the heist escapes in V, which either consist of being totally scripted so you might as well have no stars, or (for the Big Score loud approach or if you have a crappy driver in the Bureau Raid roof approach) you're right near that underground tunnel so you just drive in there. With Three Leaf Clover I like to either make it a bit harder by trying to just drive straight to the McReary house, smashing through the police barricades and just hoping to lose them with speed, or I do the sneaky thing where you go up to the top of the stairs but then turn around and go back into the subway and lose them just by running along the tracks out of the search zone (which is kind of cool because you see them take off their balaclavas :D). The escape isn't perfect but at least you actually have to escape the police using your own initiative.

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Soggy biscuits

Simple reason: Too complicated.

 

I absolutely love this games story and have beaten it multiple times, but when first playing it I found the story very complex. I'm the type of person to like these kinds of games, but this game in particular was quite annoying to figure out at first. Im not saying this story changing would be for the better, but maybe make the story a bit more obvious about some of the events that occur and about some of the players/gangs. As I said, story was amazing but I feel it's too complex to understand the first time u play it (it took me like 3 times to play the game and multiple videos on YouTube to finally figure it out lol). Could be just me, maybe not.

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Utopianthumbs
17 minutes ago, Soggy biscuits said:

Simple reason: Too complicated.

 

I absolutely love this games story and have beaten it multiple times, but when first playing it I found the story very complex. I'm the type of person to like these kinds of games, but this game in particular was quite annoying to figure out at first. Im not saying this story changing would be for the better, but maybe make the story a bit more obvious about some of the events that occur and about some of the players/gangs. As I said, story was amazing but I feel it's too complex to understand the first time u play it (it took me like 3 times to play the game and multiple videos on YouTube to finally figure it out lol). Could be just me, maybe not.

I can kind of understand what you mean. I had a similar experience with San Andreas the first time I played,I couldn't understand most of the dialogue. For eg I didn't know that the word 'strap' meant a gun, that 'whip' meant a car and I didn't understand in what context the word 'hood' was being used, so when all these terms were being used frequently it left me very confused. Ryder was downright indecipherable to young me. With IV I didn't have that much problems as such, but I don't think it's just you, dialogue in GTA games can be hard to understand when you're playing the first time if you're not familiar with gang lingo and such.

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)

With IV the complexity works for me. Things like the diamonds plot and the heroin plot and the stuff that happens between different gangs etc are definitely complex and hard to get your head around without repeated playthroughs and some figuring out. But to me that's ok because that stuff is more in the background. The main plot of Niko trying to get himself and Roman out of trouble, trying to find the man he's looking for, and meeting people and working as a hired gun for them to make some money and contacts to help is a lot more straightforward. So you have a main storyline that's engaging and relatively easy to follow, but also complexity provided by the background stories interwoven with the main one and running through the three games making you have to think more, making the way the three games link together more interesting, making the city/world feel more alive, and adding value to repeated plays. It's a good balance for me.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8

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Soggy biscuits
5 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

With IV the complexity works for me. Things like the diamonds plot and the heroin plot and the stuff that happens between different gangs etc are definitely complex and hard to get your head around without repeated playthroughs and some figuring out. But to me that's ok because that stuff is more in the background. The main plot of Niko trying to get himself and Roman out of trouble, trying to find the man he's looking for, and meeting people and working as a hired gun for them to make some money and contacts to help is a lot more straightforward. So you have a main storyline that's engaging and relatively easy to follow, but also complexity provided by the background stories interwoven with the main one and running through the three games making you have to think more, making the way the three games link together more interesting, making the city/world feel more alive, and adding value to repeated plays. It's a good balance for me.

Couldn't agree more!

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Cheatz/Trickz

I was never sold on the Playboy and Dwayne conflict. I don’t really like Dwayne too much, and Playboy for as much of a moron as he was, still sensed Dwayne was going to call a hit on him too, so he simply beat him to the punch. But, I reckon Niko should have just refused to kill either of them and cut all contact. 

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Sentinel Driver

Hearing Niko's fake accent and butchered serbian pronunciation makes the game feel like a B-movie at times. Please if you're gonna make the characters speak a foreign language then do it right

I like Luis more than Niko. At least his accent isn't fake and he is a bit more relatable (although GTA characters are dangerous criminals and there isn't usually much to relate to)

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Rajaraja

The Deal ending. There's absolutely no reason why Niko would work for Pegorino (a literal nobody in the mafia scene) or Rascalov (a proven backstabber). The games says its for the money, but at that point in the story Roman has his cab business back and Niko robbed the biggest bank in the city. The story doesn't provide any strong reason to pick this ending.

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Duhillestpunk

I didn’t like how Niko didn’t kill his enemy Bulgarin. He should’ve been the one to kill him not Luis.

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KingAJ032304

The main thing I just really don't like about this gem of a game is how when Niko is hired to kill people your FORCED to kill them... that is all. Sure you can do it from different points and all but I would like the option to actually terrorize people more, interrogate them, kidnap them, hide them, or something that's just not "KILL THEM". A great example is FINAL DESTINATION. Dimitri constantly says that Lenny is alright and that it isn't him then starts begging, litterally insisting, on Mikhail not to kill him and we are already know how Mikhail jumps to conclusions way too fast and has lost his sanity years ago and even Niko himself starts questioning rather if Mikhail is sure he wants to do this 3 times total. The fact that Niko doesn't have the option to interrogate Lenny for information or ask Dimitri what exactly is going on is a slight disappointment to be honest.

On 5/15/2019 at 12:50 PM, Soggy biscuits said:

Simple reason: Too complicated.

 

I absolutely love this games story and have beaten it multiple times, but when first playing it I found the story very complex. I'm the type of person to like these kinds of games, but this game in particular was quite annoying to figure out at first. Im not saying this story changing would be for the better, but maybe make the story a bit more obvious about some of the events that occur and about some of the players/gangs. As I said, story was amazing but I feel it's too complex to understand the first time u play it (it took me like 3 times to play the game and multiple videos on YouTube to finally figure it out lol). Could be just me, maybe not.

That's EXACLTY why GTA 4 story is so replayable!

On 6/8/2019 at 11:15 AM, Rajaraja said:

The Deal ending. There's absolutely no reason why Niko would work for Pegorino (a literal nobody in the mafia scene) or Rascalov (a proven backstabber). The games says its for the money, but at that point in the story Roman has his cab business back and Niko robbed the biggest bank in the city. The story doesn't provide any strong reason to pick this ending.

I honestly like to think he was a little stressed out after killing Darko and wasn't right in the head even drinking in the game and Roman kept asking him to do the deal for positvie things and even brought is entire family's happiness into it so there's that.

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, KingAJ032304 said:

The main thing I just really don't like about this gem of a game is how when Niko is hired to kill people your FORCED to kill them... that is all. Sure you can do it from different points and all but I would like the option to actually terrorize people more, interrogate them, kidnap them, hide them, or something that's just not "KILL THEM". A great example is FINAL DESTINATION. Dimitri constantly says that Lenny is alright and that it isn't him then starts begging, litterally insisting, on Mikhail not to kill him and we are already know how Mikhail jumps to conclusions way too fast and has lost his sanity years ago and even Niko himself starts questioning rather if Mikhail is sure he wants to do this 3 times total. The fact that Niko doesn't have the option to interrogate Lenny for information or ask Dimitri what exactly is going on is a slight disappointment to be honest.

That's EXACLTY why GTA 4 story is so replayable!

I honestly like to think he was a little stressed out after killing Darko and wasn't right in the head even drinking in the game and Roman kept asking him to do the deal for positvie things and even brought is entire family's happiness into it so there's that.

To be fair they did include a couple of times where you can spare someone you were asked to kill and just intimidate them instead (Clarence, Ivan - also in Ilyena and Cherise's random encounters you can choose whether to kill or just intimidate the guys who were bothering them), as well as options to turn around and kill the guy who asked you to kill someone instead of doing what they said and spare the other guy in the process (Playboy/Dwayne, Francis/Derrick). I would also like it if there was even more of that but there's still more than in any other GTA game.

 

I think in Final Destination it makes more sense that Niko follows the order since it's earlier in the game and he more just starting out. Also you can call Dimitri on the way to meeting Lenny to ask him to confirm you should do it (which he does, reluctantly), so they did take into account that Niko might question Mikhail's orders there even if he does have to end up following them.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8

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Johnny Spaz
21 hours ago, KingAJ032304 said:

The main thing I just really don't like about this gem of a game is how when Niko is hired to kill people your FORCED to kill them... that is all. Sure you can do it from different points and all but I would like the option to actually terrorize people more, interrogate them, kidnap them, hide them, or something that's just not "KILL THEM". A great example is FINAL DESTINATION. Dimitri constantly says that Lenny is alright and that it isn't him then starts begging, litterally insisting, on Mikhail not to kill him and we are already know how Mikhail jumps to conclusions way too fast and has lost his sanity years ago and even Niko himself starts questioning rather if Mikhail is sure he wants to do this 3 times total. The fact that Niko doesn't have the option to interrogate Lenny for information or ask Dimitri what exactly is going on is a slight disappointment to be honest.

That's EXACLTY why GTA 4 story is so replayable!

I honestly like to think he was a little stressed out after killing Darko and wasn't right in the head even drinking in the game and Roman kept asking him to do the deal for positvie things and even brought is entire family's happiness into it so there's that.

Niko is being paid to follow orders, he’s a hit man not a shrink, why would he interrogate his targets? Sounds like a naive thing to say

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KingAJ032304
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Johnny Spaz said:

Niko is being paid to follow orders, he’s a hit man not a shrink, why would he interrogate his targets? Sounds like a naive thing to say

See the great thing is having the options to interrogation him or kidnap him isn't actually very Out Of Character for him you know? Also there are many situations where he's offered a lot of money to kill somebody but you have the option to NOT kill them. I also think having more options like this would have made the game feel less repetitive as well as having certain sceneros playing out different then what's expected and more story options, but I'll just go with what billiejoearmstrong8 said how:

16 hours ago, billiejoearmstrong8 said:

"I think in Final Destination it makes more sense that Niko follows the order since it's earlier in the game and he more just starting out." Also you can call Dimitri on the way to meeting Lenny to ask him to confirm you should do it (which he does, reluctantly), so they did take into account that Niko might question Mikhail's orders there even if he does have to end up following them.

 

Edited by KingAJ032304

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MysteryDriverX
Posted (edited)

I'm currently on the part where you get missions from Jimmy and Florian, playing the game for the first time (so I'm avoiding the other replies so I don't get spoiled 😁)
I don't like too much having to work for those Italian mafiosos that keep threatening Niko and giving him crap. I know that Niko is fearless and that he needs help finding that guy he's looking for, but he really pushes his luck dealing with those people.

Either way the story is extremely well written for a game (at least to me, I haven't played too many games where the story is so important). I felt really enganged and involved in several parts and really care about the characters and what happens to them next.

EDIT: Gravelli seems like a better guy to take orders from now. I'm glad I could stop working for Jimmy, Phil and Ray, and start working for this guy.

Edited by MysteryDriverX

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Eugene H. Krabs
Posted (edited)

This is a super tiny nitpick, but during the cutscene in That Special Someone, I wish Niko & Darko spoke Serbian throughout, instead of just at the beginning. It would've made the cutscene deeper, not to mention it makes more sense for a whacked-out Serbian junkie to speak in his native language instead of English

Edited by Eugene H. Krabs

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KingAJ032304
13 hours ago, Eugene H. Krabs said:

This is a super tiny nitpick, but during the cutscene in That Special Someone, I wish Niko & Darko spoke Serbian throughout, instead of just at the beginning. It would've made the cutscene deeper, not to mention it makes more sense for a whacked-out Serbian junkie to speak in his native language instead of English

To be honest I feel more native languages that AREN'T English should have be spoken more throughout the entire game.

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billiejoearmstrong8
Posted (edited)

I like the idea of that whole scene being in Serbian in theory. But in practice because Niko's actor's Serbian pronunciation wasn't the best I think it was wise not to do the whole scene, I don't think the emotion would've been able to come across as well due to being less comfortable speaking the script. I'm glad they included some though.

 

I thought there was quite an impressive amount of languages other than English included in IV, again certainly more than in other GTAs. Lots of Russian (including a whole radio station of Russian songs) and Serbian in the story as well as various bits of other languages (and although not another language as such a nice bit of Jamaican patois), and tons of different languages heard around the city if you listen to different peds. Not to discount the opinion but I really think different languages/accents/nationalities/ethnicities is something that IV did particularly well.

Edited by billiejoearmstrong8

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