The Concept Creators' Lounge

[wise_man]

Is this thread still alive? just wanted to give a bit update on Hustler of L.V.

 

I've been busy in real-life, but still got enough free time for concepts. But I put my priority on finishing the concept on fanon wiki first before transforming it into this forum version. Apparently I want to rename all characters as well (not only the protagonist) to avoid mixing both projects when I worked on both of them.

[kobeni]

9 hours ago, wise_man said:

Is this thread still alive?

Honestly not really dude.

 

Would love to see your concept here though.

Edited May 19, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[kobeni]

Thought I'd post some ideas on my Borders concept DLC to keep this thread active.

 

Anyway, while I'm working on and off on the Rust Belt (Carcer City) concept, I've massively rewritten the standalone DLCs for GTA: Borders, and I plan on making separate threads for each of them.

 

Grand Theft Auto: Chasing The Dragon (1994)

Set in an alternate 1994 timeline of Southern San Andreas and heavily inspired by Vice City Stories as well as early-to-mid 90s action comedies such as Bad Boys an Lethal Weapon, you take control of of two characters, Ryan Washington and Javier Madrazo. A new exclusive part of the map, Castillo Island (based on Catalina Island), is introduced to this DLC, located across the ocean south of the Los Santos mainland.

 

Ryan Washington is an ex-Vice Squad detective hailing from Vice Point, Vice City. Hanging on the coattails of the glitz, glamor and drugs of the mid-to-late 1980s, things unexpectedly come to a close in 1990, when Ryan is betrayed and left for dead by his partner, Albert Alonzo, during a drug deal with the Cubans, in a period when the FIB were coming down hard on corrupt cops like him and Alonzo. After many pulling of strings and 'paying through the ass' in bribes, he is declared free from wrongdoing by both the VCPD and the FIB after the hit and moves to Los Santos, where he works as a petty thief and hired gun for whichever criminal organization that pays decently, though he is now broke, lives in a run-down house in Praetorian Beach and is stripped of all his prestige, wealth and infamy. He still holds a grudge against Alonzo as of 1994, who he hears is now working as an enforcer for a major criminal organization in the West Coast.

 

Javier Madrazo, first appearing in GTA V, is the underdog of the Madrazo family, and a man often frowned upon by his cousin Martin for his reckless antics, despite his good intentions for the organization. Exiled temporarily from the Madrazo Cartel in Texas for bringing the cops to one of their drug labs, Martin banishes him to Southern San Andreas, where as of 1994, now spends his days running smaller operations in the not-so-profitable region for drug barons such as Martin due to the monopoly held by other gangs in the city. During this time, Javier hears of a major heroin deal between the Algonquin Triads as well as the local Zapata and Bronson Crime Families in Los Santos, and sets his sights on becoming one of the key players by eliminating one of the organizations to curry favor the Triads, believing this to be the moment where he can finally get the respect he deserves from his cousin back in Texas by turning the state into a goldmine for the cartel.

 

Ryan and Javier would both soon cross paths after the former is tasked with hitting one of the small operations run by Javier and his associates for a less-than-stellar client. Impressed by his quick takeover skills, Javier takes him in and after some takeovers in Los Santos and soon attempts to muscle in control in the city to ensure their place in the deal with the Triads.

 

Empire-building returns from VCS and plays a major role in this concept, albeit in a different form where you purchase existing properties, ranging from abandoned warehouses to mid-century-modern landmark homes, often after a gun battle with other gangs, where a space in the property is allocated for your illicit businesses. Gangs whose businesses you can take include the Families, the Vagos, the Ballas, the Aztecas, the Pack, the Angels of Death and the Calle 13. Once the business is taken over, pay days are announced via pager weekly, where profits are split 50% and 50% between Javier and Ryan.

 

Lawyers are also a key feature of the concept, as they are responsible for keeping the paperwork on the legitimacy of your businesses and properties in the state. They also help to lessen the hold that the police have on you when you do get busted, depending on how good the lawyer you hire is. Each lawyer has their own perks, and some lawyers have bonuses which others don't that can help ensure the longevity of your businesses.

 

I plan on also having a chapter that is briefly set in the nightclub district of Ocean Beach, Vice City, as part of a mid-game mission arc, where gameplay would be somewhat similar to Yakuza.

 

Updated stations:

'Purchasing' the DLC updates the existing stations in the original Borders storyline, though the DLC can be 'bought' as a standalone title.

 

Non Stop Pop FM (80s-90s Pop, Acid Jazz, Sophisti-pop, R&B, Techno)

Tequi-La-La Radio (Alternative Rock, Alternative Metal, Glam Metal, Skate Punk)

Radio X (West Coast Punk Rock)

Los Santos Rock Radio (AOR, Hard Rock, Soft Rock, Power Pop, Heavy Metal)

Radio Los Santos (West Coast Rap, Southern Hip Hop, G-Funk)

INI Radio (Reggae Fusion, Dancehall, Dub)

The Lowdown (Jazz-Funk, Soul, R&B, Funk)

Space 103.2FM (Boogie, Jazz-Funk, Post-Disco)

Deepness 92 (Deep House)

WCTR (Talk Show)

 

New stations:

The DLC introduces 1 new station.

 

Mint Jams Radio (Japanese Jazz Fusion)

 

Grand Theft Auto: Burning Wheel (2022)

Set in an alternate post-pandemic 2022 timeline and inspired by Fast & Furious, Burnout and Midnight Club games, you take control of two characters, Donnie Fitzgerald and Marty Plemmons. New exclusive locations for this DLC include Hydra Springs, Modoc Forest and Ocelot (loosely based on Palm Springs and parts of Riverside and the San Bernardino National Forest), located east of Crawford and Little Rock.

 

Donnie, once an infamous and proud street racer and getaway driver in the Los Santos Underworld during the tuner heyday of the early-to-mid 2000s, until a bad race against dirty driver Zach 'Chico' Fernandez leaves him almost penniless. Using loans and savings to scrape together some cash for an old garage out in Veneration Beach in 2013, Donnie turns it into a customs workshop, hoping this would turn back the profits for him, though this leaves him trapped in a huge debt cycle. Business gets progressively worse with each passing year, in part due to competition with Los Santos Customs and Bennie's, and hits a low point in 2020, during the Covid pandemic. With barely any customers to work with and in hock in over $40,000 for some unsavory types in the city, a sect of the Armenian Alliance, led by ringleader Karine Zakaryan, puts Donnie on their sh*tlist, threatening him with violence and the destruction of his  business if he does not pay back his debts. With the odds all against his favor, Donnie contemplates going back into crime to solve his problems.

 

Marty is an out-of-towner hailing from the Southwest, active as a racer in the Nevada and Arizona region and is widely believed to have had military experience as well as a dark past centered around the criminal organizations in that region, not to mention a brief homeless stint in Venturas. What was originally supposed to be a short stopover in San Andreas quickly turned into an employment opportunity for him as he meets Donnie at a bar, where despite the relatively lousy pay, Marty took up the job anyhow, due to him needing to lay low after 'a major incident' back in the Southwest as well as a desire to keep himself employed in the aftermath of the pandemic. This was a plus for Donnie as well as he needed a skilled wingman to pull the job for Karine. A father-son relationship begins between Donnie and Marty over the course of the storyline, as they attempt to overcome their troubles to prevail in the cruel landscape of Southern San Andreas.

 

Racing Clubs, a feature from Midnight Club 3 and Midnight Club: LA, make their debut in this DLC, split into different classes and can either be run by legitimate clubs or by street gangs, such as the Ballas, Vagos, The Lost MC and the Uptown Riders. Clubs contain several races into one continuous pool, and beating a club grants you exclusive mods, vehicles as well as the respect of the gangs you compete against. Red Light Races against random street racers in the region also return, and Donnie/Marty can compete with racers around Southern San Andreas and exchange contact details to get notified of any races happening in town.

 

Side missions include Impound Breakout, where Donnie/Marty helps a client retrieve their vehicle from the police impound and has to survive a time limit, Road Bashing, where an armored sportscar is used to ram police cars off the road to help a getaway driver make their exit, Bomb Threat, where a bomb is diffused by driving really fast under the time limit, Convoy, a high-speed mission where you stick close to a convoy of sports cars while you have a five-star wanted level and Scare, where the player has to drive maniacally to scare the target in a vehicle, and many more to come.

 

The Shop is the main safe point in the DLC, located in Santa Domingo, overlooking the beautiful Veneration Beach west of the city center, with the ability to store 32 vehicles. The space is customizable, and the decor can be changed to suit a certain look. This is where many of the missions, races and jobs begin, and where side missions take place, such as Chop Shop, Import/Export, Towing and Resupply, involving the hijacking or destruction of Los Santos Customs supplies and assets for your own use. Car modifications can be done in the shop at a considerably cheaper price compared to other businesses, though supplies are limited, and where new modifications are added usually after successful completion of races or missions. That said, Donnie and Marty, once they make enough money, are able to purchase more garages across the map, with their own list of cars to collect and the option to fast travel becomes available, though the main base of operations is still the Veneration Beach Shop.

 

When Donnie/Marty gets busted or wasted with a personal car nearby, the vehicle will get impounded, and they can either pay the cops to get it back or do some wet work for the police, mostly involving the bugging of a vehicle as well as tailing suspects.

 

Updated stations:

'Purchasing' the DLC updates the existing stations in the original Borders storyline, though the DLC can be 'bought' as a standalone title.

 

Vinewood Boulevard Radio (Electronic Rock, Alternative Rock, Blues Rock)

Radio Mirror Park (Indie Pop, Electronica, Psychedelic Pop, Synthwave)

Ego Death FM (Industrial, Post-Punk)

Non Stop Pop FM (Modern Pop)

Neon Roads FM (Neo-soul, Future Soul, Alternative R&B)

Radio Los Santos (Contemporary Hip Hop & Rap)

West Coast Classics (Classic Hip Hop, Hyphy)

Deepness 92 (Lo-Fi House)

WCTR (Talk Show)

 

New stations:

The DLC introduces 3 new stations.

 

Futuro Los Santos (Modern Jazz-Funk, Indietronica, Electro-funk Revival, Neo-Soul)

Re-Wire 98.7FM (IDM, Chillout, Jungle Revival, Future Garage)

City Nights Radio (Future Funk)

Edited May 29, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[Big Fat Paulie]

Real talk, you know what we need to spice things up and add some activity to the mix?

A GTA concept that starts an entirely new universe separate from both the HD Universe and the 3D Universe. It can borrow elements from both eras of course, such as place names and maybe reimagined gangs (sort of like how the Ballas and Families were in GTA V)

[Jezus Holy Christ]

On 6/10/2021 at 7:00 AM, Big Fat Paulie said:

Real talk, you know what we need to spice things up and add some activity to the mix?

A GTA concept that starts an entirely new universe separate from both the HD Universe and the 3D Universe. It can borrow elements from both eras of course, such as place names and maybe reimagined gangs (sort of like how the Ballas and Families were in GTA V)

 

I think about this exact same thing a lot, though maybe with some slight differences: I want to have one single cohesive narrative about everything that has happened in the GTA universe, and what's real within it and what isn't, or what parts are myths and what parts aren't.

 

My Anywhere movie concept (which I'm still writing, but ofc I can't prioritize it and real life limits me, so it's still far from finished) is an attempt at that. It takes place in its own separate timeline, but while doing that it also takes elements from all previous universes and brings them together to create this final, greater layer of GTA timeline. Everything we've seen before does indeed exist, but not necessarily in the way it has been presented before. Some events and people aren't as great or impactful as they were portrayed in the 3D games.

 

In this vision, the 2D, 3D, and HD universe timelines and events are all different takes on the truth, hence their inconsistencies, technological improvements over time, and increased complexity. So we have seen some of what's happened, but through a very warped and altered medium. Starting with Anywhere, we'll see what reality all those stories were based on.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Jezus Holy Christ

[Big Fat Paulie]

I've mentioned this before, but I'd love to do a concept thread that's essentially a remake and reboot of Manhunt. It'd be set either in the HD Universe or another universe altogether (the old Manhunt games were set in the 3D Universe)

 

Some characters would be new while other characters would be completely different and totally reimagined from the ground up.

[E Revere]

On 6/14/2021 at 9:07 PM, Jezus Holy Christ said:

 

I think about this exact same thing a lot, though maybe with some slight differences: I want to have one single cohesive narrative about everything that has happened in the GTA universe, and what's real within it and what isn't, or what parts are myths and what parts aren't.

 

My Anywhere movie concept (which I'm still writing, but ofc I can't prioritize it and real life limits me, so it's still far from finished) is an attempt at that. It takes place in its own separate timeline, but while doing that it also takes elements from all previous universes and brings them together to create this final, greater layer of GTA timeline. Everything we've seen before does indeed exist, but not necessarily in the way it has been presented before. Some events and people aren't as great or impactful as they were portrayed in the 3D games.

 

In this vision, the 2D, 3D, and HD universe timelines and events are all different takes on the truth, hence their inconsistencies, technological improvements over time, and increased complexity. So we have seen some of what's happened, but through a very warped and altered medium. Starting with Anywhere, we'll see what reality all those stories were based on.

 

You said it perfectly. That's exactly my vision. If I'm being honest, I don't take the universe separation too seriously - in fact, I think it was completely unnecessary. Even though the universes are de jure separate, there are still recurring characters between both of them, they have the same locations, same gangs, same cultural phemena (sprunk, maibatsu etc) and the same histories. I always thought of the universe separation as more like the difference between a book and its sequel. The sequel is likely to mention people, events and areas that weren't present in the original not because they're set in separate universes but because the second book is more in-depth and realistic and likewise the HD universe is different because it was made using better technology. I mean, what, are they gonna invent a new universe every time they're able to make much bigger maps? That'd be absurd. It's not a solid barrier but a hard-to-cross swamp that connects two foreign lands. I don't see why fanfiction writers like us should restrict our options by treating it like the former. I think the events of GTA 3 are still valid in GTA IV, it just happened in a different fashion and the same goes for SA and V. The Families apparently used to own Grove Street in the HD universe but lost it, clear reference to SA. CJ can still be an apparent character if we so choose. I would love if it if a VC remake got made, and instead of referencing the Forellis it referenced one of the five families of LC in GTA IV. Like you said, the universes are different interpretations of the same thing, not two unrelated completely separate universes.

Edited June 19, 2021 by E Revere

[Big Fat Paulie]

Trying to think of some names for GTA versions of Pittsburgh and Portland.

 

If I did a Manhunt reboot/remake concept, I'm not sure if I should set it in Carcer City or not.

[ViceKing]

56 minutes ago, Big Fat Paulie said:

Trying to think of some names for GTA versions of Pittsburgh and Portland.

 

If I did a Manhunt reboot/remake concept, I'm not sure if I should set it in Carcer City or not.

Set it in either Camden,NJ or Detroit.

[Big Fat Paulie]

2 hours ago, ViceKing said:

Set it in either Camden,NJ or Detroit.

 

I could go for an HD Universe version of Carcer City where it's a blend of Chicago and Detroit but I've also considered a Pittsburgh-like setting as well.

[wise_man]

On 6/20/2021 at 4:30 AM, Big Fat Paulie said:

I could go for an HD Universe version of Carcer City where it's a blend of Chicago and Detroit but I've also considered a Pittsburgh-like setting as well.

Maybe multiple cities in Rust Belt? Carcer (Detroit) + Pittsburgh with Lake Erie and vast countryside in between. You can add Cleveland as well. Anyway, it's also depend on the story, whether you want it short and simple or long and adventurous like RDR2. One city will be enough for the former option.

[kobeni]

Gonna try something crazy for both my Chasing The Dragon and Burning Wheel concepts once I'm done with the Borders map, comic icon boxes for written dialogues inspired by GTA2 and Chinatown Wars. Almost every character is going to have their own icon art for these concepts, which includes main characters, gang members (Ballas, Vagos, etc), cops and civilians. In the protagonists and main characters case, I intend to include different emotive icons to create a more believable and nuanced dialogue experience.

 

Here's some character art I've done for the members of one of the gangs in Borders in the 1994 era. Do let me know if there's anything I can improve on with this idea or if the style should be changed.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[kobeni]

Doubt it might happen anytime soon, but I might overhaul my Inner Circle concept sometime in the future.

 

It's a really fascinating concept with a cool post-millennium Chicago setting that I feel is sadly not in a good state right now. Might even turn it into a non-GTA webcomic as well in future. Definitely going to change up the radio stations and the story as well and make it much more filled with content and writing. I got some better ideas in store for that.

 

Other than that, it's a shame to see this thread completely abandoned if I'm being honest, but oh well what can you do.

Edited August 25, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[éX-Driver]

GTA Carcer

The game takes place in a fictional city based on a mix of Chicago and Detroit set during two time periods; Summer of 1928 and the Winter of 1932-1933. Overall plot is based on a mix of the life of Al Capone and the history of groups like Murder Inc.

 

The protagonist is a Polish Jew immigrant who out of necessity takes up work for a Jewish mafia that frequently serves as hired guns to the various other mafia families around the city. Over the course of the 1928 section of the game, he rises through the ranks of the Jewish Mafia he is a member of by proving himself to be a fantastic driver and gunman, gaining a more prominent role in the Family as he does so. Roughly ⅔ through the game, a bank job goes wrong and the protagonist is left to take the fall for it. Gets locked up. Whilst in prison, he learns he was set up as a fall guy, and had been used as a patsy all along by not just the various Families he had worked for, but by his own Mafia. After a few years of planning (and some missions inside the prison), he makes a daring prison break which leads to the winter 1932-1933 section of the game.

During the last ⅓ of the game which takes place in the early 30s, the primary goal is to hunt down every last man who stabbed the protagonist in the back. Bosses of the Italian mobs, bosses of the Irish mobs, and finally the boss of the Jewish mafia he once called his brothers. In the mean time, organised crime has been cracked down on hard by the federal government, making it much more difficult to do even petty crimes like store robberies and carjackings. Most mafia fronts have been shut down, and the various families are significantly weakened. The few still kicking around have signed (weak) alliances and truces in the hopes of keeping the heat off them. Something the protagonist exploits ruthlessly in his hunt to destroy them.

 

The two eras coincide with the tone and feel of the game it is set in. During the 1928 section, the game lavishes in the glitz and glamour and excess of Chicago of the roaring 20s. Music, drugs, expensive fashion. Upbeat, lighthearted, comically violent, rolling in money and luxury from heists and gambling and other less-scrupulous income streams. Italian families warring against each other and against Irish mobs, Jewish mafia working as hired guns for everybody, the city basically being ran by various Mafia organisations. Bootlegging alcohol. Shootouts in the street between warring taxi companies. All sorts of stuff.

By contrast, the 1932-1933 section is much more tonally sombre, brooding, visceral, serious, and dark to reflect the height of the Great Depression. Poverty everywhere, everyone constantly looking over their shoulders. City infrastructure is in a state of disarray as things fall apart from lack of maintenance. No more lobbing molotovs through cafe windows to contest turf; instead people are getting mugged in alleyways for a handful of dimes in the hopes of being able to buy a sandwich. 

Even the weather reflects this shift, with 1928 being bright and sunny much of the time with lots of colour in the plants due to the season, whilst 1932-1933 is dark and dreary and snowy and filled with dead plants. 

 

The end result is not just having the 20s and 30s as a backdrop for the gameplay, but having it also affect the game itself. The way the game is played changes to reflect the social climates that existed, with the story of the protagonist being a reflection of society as a whole and its contrasts between the Roaring 20s and the Great Depression. First he is rich and powerful and thinks he has it all, then he is hit by a metaphorical freight train that leaves him a bitter dejected man scraping the gutter to survive.

 

Multiplayer would take place in 1928, but the seasons would change between summer and winter every real-life month. Players would start their own gangs and try to build their own criminal empires in the city. Run their own speakeasies and bootlegging operations, organise and perform their own heists, own their own taxi organisations to be used for money laundering, buy and invest in their own properties, run their own gambling dens; all sorts of stuff that fit the Prohibition era. Live the high life of the Roaring 20s perpetually. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by éX-Driver

[kobeni]

5 hours ago, éX-Driver said:

GTA Carcer

The game takes place in a fictional city based on a mix of Chicago and Detroit set during two time periods; Summer of 1928 and the Winter of 1932-1933. Overall plot is based on a mix of the life of Al Capone and the history of groups like Murder Inc.

 

The protagonist is a Polish Jew immigrant who out of necessity takes up work for a Jewish mafia that frequently serves as hired guns to the various other mafia families around the city. Over the course of the 1928 section of the game, he rises through the ranks of the Jewish Mafia he is a member of by proving himself to be a fantastic driver and gunman, gaining a more prominent role in the Family as he does so. Roughly ⅔ through the game, a bank job goes wrong and the protagonist is left to take the fall for it. Gets locked up. Whilst in prison, he learns he was set up as a fall guy, and had been used as a patsy all along by not just the various Families he had worked for, but by his own Mafia. After a few years of planning (and some missions inside the prison), he makes a daring prison break which leads to the winter 1932-1933 section of the game.

During the last ⅓ of the game which takes place in the early 30s, the primary goal is to hunt down every last man who stabbed the protagonist in the back. Bosses of the Italian mobs, bosses of the Irish mobs, and finally the boss of the Jewish mafia he once called his brothers. In the mean time, organised crime has been cracked down on hard by the federal government, making it much more difficult to do even petty crimes like store robberies and carjackings. Most mafia fronts have been shut down, and the various families are significantly weakened. The few still kicking around have signed (weak) alliances and truces in the hopes of keeping the heat off them. Something the protagonist exploits ruthlessly in his hunt to destroy them.

 

The two eras coincide with the tone and feel of the game it is set in. During the 1928 section, the game lavishes in the glitz and glamour and excess of Chicago of the roaring 20s. Music, drugs, expensive fashion. Upbeat, lighthearted, comically violent, rolling in money and luxury from heists and gambling and other less-scrupulous income streams. Italian families warring against each other and against Irish mobs, Jewish mafia working as hired guns for everybody, the city basically being ran by various Mafia organisations. Bootlegging alcohol. Shootouts in the street between warring taxi companies. All sorts of stuff.

By contrast, the 1932-1933 section is much more tonally sombre, brooding, visceral, serious, and dark to reflect the height of the Great Depression. Poverty everywhere, everyone constantly looking over their shoulders. City infrastructure is in a state of disarray as things fall apart from lack of maintenance. No more lobbing molotovs through cafe windows to contest turf; instead people are getting mugged in alleyways for a handful of dimes in the hopes of being able to buy a sandwich. 

Even the weather reflects this shift, with 1928 being bright and sunny much of the time with lots of colour in the plants due to the season, whilst 1932-1933 is dark and dreary and snowy and filled with dead plants. 

 

The end result is not just having the 20s and 30s as a backdrop for the gameplay, but having it also affect the game itself. The way the game is played changes to reflect the social climates that existed, with the story of the protagonist being a reflection of society as a whole and its contrasts between the Roaring 20s and the Great Depression. First he is rich and powerful and thinks he has it all, then he is hit by a metaphorical freight train that leaves him a bitter dejected man scraping the gutter to survive.

 

Multiplayer would take place in 1928, but the seasons would change between summer and winter every real-life month. Players would start their own gangs and try to build their own criminal empires in the city. Run their own speakeasies and bootlegging operations, organise and perform their own heists, own their own taxi organisations to be used for money laundering, buy and invest in their own properties, run their own gambling dens; all sorts of stuff that fit the Prohibition era. Live the high life of the Roaring 20s perpetually. 

This sounds a bit like the premise of Driver Parallel Lines but during the 20s-30s. I like it still though.

Edited August 28, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[éX-Driver]

10 hours ago, DownInThePMs said:

This sounds a bit like the premise of Driver Parallel Lines but during the 20s-30s. I like it still though.

I was inspired by a mix of that, Mafia 1, and Vice City when I was coming up with the game. Was originally thinking of a Sicilian immigrant having to deal with Black Handers which is what leads him to a life of crime, but then I remembered about how the Jewish mafia is underrepresented in media depictions of that era. Everyone talks about the Italians and occasionally the Irish, but forget the Jews were just as influential an outfit.

[kobeni]

Regarding the future rewrite of Inner Circle, I might consider an increased emphasis on the animosity between the Irish and Italian gangs in the city of Ellis as a plot point, which in turn influence the politics of the 2004 mayoral elections. I'm thinking of going back to a single protagonist angle, as I feel having too many protagonists would really spoil the feel I'm going for here. Having the protagonist be sort of a person who is stuck between those two worlds (think Phil Bell in GTA IV), and ends up joining the Inner Circle, a contract killing squad for the Ellisian criminal underworld as a way to forge their own identity, while coming to terms with both sides of their heritage could potentially be a great way to tell the story in an Iraq War-era Chicago expy.

 

It probably wouldn't feel too much like a GTA game concept, but it's still going to be a crime drama game concept, nonetheless.

 

Below is just a bunch of key concepts and ideas for the rewrite that I'm planning, in no particular order, which range from plot-related snippets to aesthetics. I've intentionally left out spoilers so as to not ruin the surprise (I hope).

 

Spoiler

- The story would still be set between 2003 and 2004, though the prologue arc would take place in 2002, and certain sections of the game would take place in 1995 and 1979. The radio stations, most which will see their playlists changed either slightly or radically, are now heavily inspired by games and films such as Gran Turismo 1/2/3, Driver: Parallel Lines, Queen of the Damned, Go!, The Wire and Saints Row 1. The style of the concept would also be mildly inspired by the first two Max Payne games.

 

- Anachronisms exist, but they are relatively minor, mostly relegated to the radio music and cars within a 1-3 year difference (even less for the songs).

 

- Emika Dharan and her organization still return as major players in the city, though they are now more like a band of gunrunners masquerading as a legitimate logistics company and investment firm who want to make a profit off of Ellis's sociopolitical turmoils. Many of the city's arms dealers are either members of or heavily affiliated with her organization.

 

- I'm including an additional member of the Inner Circle who would want the protagonist to 'prove her worth'. Expect him to not make it out alive in the 2002 arc, though his presence would continue to be felt by the protagonist throughout the storyline, similar to Major Harlow in Borders.

 

- The city of Ellis would be slightly bigger and would resemble Chicago more closely in real life. I'm thinking of having a bit of the forest and countryside in the map as well like in Mafia 1. Might post progress pics to Mapmaking after I'm done with the Borders.

 

- I'd probably take an LA Noire style episodic approach to mission-writing, and call the missions 'contracts'. I feel this would definitely help with the pacing of the storyline as well as character development, plus it would be easier to write for me. Individual contracts consist of several sub-missions, which help tie the story together. The contracts would range from the typical police procedural style of a case-a-week scenarios, to story-driven plotlines such as exploring each individual members past as well as driving the personal story of the protagonist. I might combine this with my Carcer City concept of seasons, where a number of contracts would take place within a season.

 

- The story would feel like a f*cked up, gangland version of Family Feud towards the end of the storyline, which is among the major reasons why tensions are high between the Irish and Italian mobs in Ellis. 

 

- As opposed to merely being puppets to the criminal organizations, the politicians would be able to stand their own ground, and funding of the gang war is often done voluntarily often without much blackmail or interference from the big gangs.

 

- Targets of a contract range from an individual to a large group of people. Examples include a country club owner who runs a slaving ring, a sociopathic, manipulative psychiatrist and a rival contract killing group.

 

- Some greater diving into the origins of the Inner Circle  through the oldest member of the crew, Jerome Hills. There will be periodic playable flashbacks to the American Southwest in the 70s when Jerome was still a part of the first incarnation of the group. 

 

- Sopranos-ish prophetic and surreal dream sequences will be depicted after certain contracts, similar to the flashbacks in LA Noire.

 

- The connection between the advisor of the Inner Circle, Gemini, and The Fixer in GTA IV will be covered in this.

 

- While the black organization in Ellis (The Killa Mob) might appear to be the weakest and least influential of the three big gangs in the city, they are aware of their position in the food chain, and their current leader is a childhood friend of one of the current capos in the Ellisian Mafia. Needless to say, they don't like getting pushed around and talked down by city hall, the mobs and the contract killers, and there is a possibility that they might lash out, which only adds to the feeling of walking on eggshells in the city's criminal underworld.

 

- A Donnie Brasco-esque character in the Ellisian Mafia, an undercover police officer who would provide a law enforcement perspective of the events of this story. Whether or not his cover would be blown over the course of the story will not be revealed right now.

 

- The selection of cars in Inner Circle are going to be a bit like GTA LCS and III as well as a bit of IV, but a lot sportier and cosmopolitan like in V, with pastiches of common cars from the late-90s, early-2000s as well as rare ones like the Cadillac XLR, the 3rd Generation Toyota MR2, the Buick Blackhawk, the Morgan Aero 8 and the TVR Tamora.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[E Revere]

The stuff here is always great but what bites is we have no audience, not really. The time of concepts is well over.  It kinda feels like we're just kicking a town down soccer ball at each other back and forth. It's not a bad thing. I just wish there was more, y'know, community stuff going on.

[kobeni]

3 hours ago, E Revere said:

The stuff here is always great but what bites is we have no audience, not really. The time of concepts is well over.  It kinda feels like we're just kicking a town down soccer ball at each other back and forth. It's not a bad thing. I just wish there was more, y'know, community stuff going on.

I'm guessing it's to do with changing times, attitudes and fanbases. Most of the activity peaked around the time of GTA V's announcement and release, way before the popularity of GTA Online as we know it. It was a period of naivete for the mostly unknown HD Universe, tone-wise, which I feel really accentuated that sort of newfound creativity.

 

Considering GTA V has been out for a decade, though, and how the Online has been the new face of the series, not to mention the split between old/new fans and the tonally dissonant meddling of the mostly grounded HD canon prior to it, I feel as though that luster and sense of creative exploration has sort of fizzled out.

 

Everytime I see a concept get updated or made I get a slight glimmer of hope but it makes me wish I was born slightly earlier and experienced the heyday of it. Hopefully there might be a revival movement of sort once GTA 6 comes around, but I wouldn't count on it.

Edited August 30, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[universetwisters]

3 hours ago, DownInThePMs said:

Everytime I see a concept get updated or made I get a slight glimmer of hope but it makes me wish I was born slightly earlier and experienced the heyday of it. Hopefully there might be a revival movement of sort once GTA 6 comes around, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

You really don't tbh, it was all ghetto crap and everyone wanting to make San Andreas II

[The Coconut Kid]

I'll be brief.

 

Support each other. Keep topics active. Comment first. Like last. Write written posts. Appreciate the effort. Engage with questions. Enjoy the details.

 

Post actual threads. This should be a topic. This should be a topic. And this (really this, you productive motherf*cker) and this and this and this. Are you with me? Post everything. Yesterday.

 

Never use this topic for updates. Use your threads. Bump them to let people know what you're doing. Add features, vehicles and radio as you go.

 

Share your knowledge. Know how to code a concept? Tables? Graphics? Make tutorials. Post them here. Make these things accessible. Make people want to post and make them able to post.

 

Petition staff for concepts to be included in GTA Next where your audience will be much more receptive. Ask them to include GTAO concepts. They have thrived; impacted the game itself even. Share the audience.

 

There are no secrets. There is no heyday. Just post yours and post on others.

 

And enjoy yourselves, for f*ck's sake.

[Zello]

The king has returned!!!!

[slimeball supreme]

14 hours ago, The Coconut Kid said:

There are no secrets. There is no heyday. Just post yours and post on others.

 

And enjoy yourselves, for f*ck's sake.

i see so much reminiscing in here and it feels sort of only halfway true. if there was a "golden years" period it was between 2008?-2015 tops, and even then there was so much being said here that was said then. people still didnt have any people talking in their threads, posters would get upset they werent getting feedback, and thered be a lot of inane comments and people going "Can you make a mod of this" or "is this real?!"

 

if theres an issue with concepts its that they dont often go that far beyond the conceptualization stage - lord knows an op is tough to put together - and then nobody comments on it when they do. ive considered just dropping half the stuff ive put out and finishing them off with a short synopsis and the stuff i havent posted, ive thought of never taking it out the locker. so f*cking dour in here! talk about the sh*t you love, start a discussion. not just what you want to do or how nobody is looking at what youre doing. ive felt the same way and thought maybe ill put out a feeler or give some feedback and then felt like my hand was bitten by the person i was talking to

 

i legitimately dont know if people are reading half the missions i make but i like to write them and i want to finish the stories so i do. im sure its the same for everyone else. if you want to encourage yourselves and each other then why not keep the vibes alive. discuss things you noticed or liked or whatever. i often want to but it never feels reciprocal which is probably selfish

 

14 hours ago, The Coconut Kid said:

Never use this topic for updates. Use your threads. Bump them to let people know what you're doing. Add features, vehicles and radio as you go.

Also this is a no brainer

Edited August 31, 2021 by slimeball supreme

[kobeni]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say that it's easier said than done. Making a topic takes a LOT of time and energy, and I don't want to throw out a sh*tty topic with only a pile of words in it, or we'll get a situation similar to what @universetwisters described.

 

Right now writing this stuff is a hobby for me, a fun and rewarding but ultimately soul-sapping and time-consuming hobby to be specific, and I have very little time for such hobbies if I'm being honest. To give some perspective, writing London Underground made me almost fail my second year in uni. 

 

Posting here is partially just a way for me to keep track of my ideas, maybe I just think in a different way but yeah that's kinda how I see things. If I'm using this thread wrong or something, I apologise. 

 

My main principle, based on past experience, is if I'm ever gonna start a topic now, it needs to include some really good graphics, radio logos and maps and it shouldn't just be a word salad. A lot of readers probably don't have the energy or attention span to read everything we've written (then again I'm probably wrong). I rather not half ass anything now because I don't want the concept to have a bad first impression and have it die from the get-go, and I want to at least give the reader their time's worth. Some of the best concepts I've read in recent memory, like Cosa Nostra, even though they were not exactly as in-depth as some of the other concepts out there, had a map I could refer to to understand where the story being told from and radio logos (if possible) to immerse myself into that world.

 

On 8/30/2021 at 5:27 PM, The Coconut Kid said:

Petition staff for concepts to be included in GTA Next where your audience will be much more receptive. Ask them to include GTAO concepts. They have thrived; impacted the game itself even. Share the audience.

 

I agree with this a 100%. I don't know why this thread and all the recent concept topics stay here while the mapmaking thread is located there, when they both constitute speculative forms of fanwork that fit the whole idea and ethos of GTA Next. I've seen a number of concepts there as well, like the one with the awesome Las Venturas map, albeit without a tag. There would undoubtedly be much more reach there.

 

@Spider-Vice @RedDagger please, for the sake of everyone in this thread, do consider moving this and all the other concepts made since 2017 to the GTA Next forum! Concept writing is an integral and unique part of this forum's identity and it's a great shame to see all the writers and creators feel like their works aren't worth a damn.

Edited August 31, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[wise_man]

6 hours ago, DownInThePMs said:

@Spider-Vice @RedDagger please, for the sake of everyone in this thread, do consider moving this and all the other concepts made since 2017 to the GTA Next forum! Concept writing is an integral and unique part of this forum's identity and it's a great shame to see all the writers and creators feel like their works aren't worth a damn.

This.

 

This needs to happen. How many times I've seen topics about "create your own GTA 6 characters" or "what features you'd like to see returning" etc in the GTA Next forum. Those wishlist talks are close to useless other than sharing own ideas without desire to expand it. If more people know there's actually a place for concept discussion, then there's more people willing to make this discussion active.

[E Revere]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:27 PM, The Coconut Kid said:

Share your knowledge. Know how to code a concept? Tables? Graphics? Make tutorials. Post them here. Make these things accessible. Make people want to post and make them able to post.

Well said. And alright. I'll do my bit. I've got some experience with Photoshop, nothing professional but I can handle things pretty good with it. I also have no life so anybody needs anything graphic, I'm up for it so contact me at any time.

 

Adding to what everyone else said, I agree with both sides of the bargain. I'd love to take my time and read every single word put out by the productive bastards we got on this section but in this day and age we're all, admittedly, very lazy by nature. That said, your points are still great. I did say we're kinda like a small family here but a family should be able to entertain each other, no?

 

9 hours ago, DownInThePMs said:

. Some of the best concepts I've read in recent memory, like Cosa Nostra, are simple, easy to follow and are very well-written but at least had a map (even though it's unfinished) I could refer to to understand where the story being told from and radio logos (if possible) to immerse myself into that world.

That was my intention, actually. some concepts amaze me with their effort yet are a little hard to read because of just how much content they put out so I wanted to keep mine simple and to the point.

 

  

9 hours ago, DownInThePMs said:

@Spider-Vice @RedDagger please, for the sake of everyone in this thread, do consider moving this and all the other concepts made since 2017 to the GTA Next forum! Concept writing is an integral and unique part of this forum's identity and it's a great shame to see all the writers and creators feel like their works aren't worth a damn.

Agree 100% Do us a solid, please.

Edited August 31, 2021 by E Revere

[kobeni]

17 minutes ago, E Revere said:

Well said. And alright. I'll do my bit. I've got some experience with Photoshop, nothing professional but I can handle things pretty good with it. I also have no life so anybody needs anything graphic, I'm up for it so contact me at any time.

I'm experienced in Photoshop, Clip Studio Paint and Illustrator though I'm still a bit of a novice on 3DS Max. I'll do my bit sometime in the future as well if anyone needs help.

Edited August 31, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[The Coconut Kid]

On 8/31/2021 at 10:21 AM, DownInThePMs said:

I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say that it's easier said than done. Making a topic takes a LOT of time and energy, and I don't want to throw out a sh*tty topic with only a pile of words in it, or we'll get a situation similar to what @universetwisters described.

 

You hold yourself to very high standards. That's great. Don't ever step back from them. But I want you to understand how detrimental holding concepts to high expectations might be and why you should just pull the trigger on your ideas as they come.

Let me give you an example.

Most of my concepts are a sh*tty pile of words. There are a lot of other words piled on top of each other around here too. Lincoln State is a very long pile of words in very difficult colours. Las Venturas is a more concise pile of words. Grand Theft Auto V: Vice City is a pile of words with a bit more shine on them.

Concepts at their most basic are piles of words. For me, my concepts were wishlists in action. It was never enough for me to tell you I wanted drug smuggling minigames in the next GTA, or a highly responsive police system and hand-to-hand combat, and it should be set in London and be the 1980s. I wanted to show you. I would make an effort to organise those words in a way that would convince people that they were ideas worth their time. But that was the basic buy-in: show me your ideas and how they can work.

They didn't have to be good. Take a look at my very first wishlist in action. Don't get me wrong. There's a basic story. There are characters. There are features. There are radio stations. There are vehicles and weapons with Wiki pics. There's a location which I've decided is no longer going to be New York but Detroit. There's effort -- looking back, maybe an hour and half to source the pictures and an hour for the actual post, brain-to-paper. But there's no way this kind of post is ever going to meet standards. It's not only a sh*tty pile of words but it's poorly organised and bordering on laughable: everyone for some reason is six foot five and The Rock is running the Black Panthers. I couldn't even spell vehicles right and hadn't developed proper grammar yet. And as a person who would be extremely conscious of that, I'm gonna look at all the talk of sh*tposts and wordsalads and think nah. Why bother.

This isn't a dig at you. It's always been the case and it's always been a battle. I took the plunge on my first concept after reading San Andreas Stories by The Unvirginiser over in Writer's Discussion. Great name, better writer, never forgotten as an influence. The kind of story-driven concepts you see today were over in WD back then.

I liked the idea of combining the missions of SAS in the same style to expand the wishlists we were posting in NeXt. I wasn't so keen on posting in WD. Tough crowd. The top people -- I'm assuming educated, well-read writers -- would sometimes undermine the fanfare SAS received. I don't why, but that stuck with me. Be careful not to reproduce the same attitude. There are going to be concepts that are bare bones and concepts that aren't good. There are going to be creators who don't have a high level of English or aren't native speakers. Cultivate them -- direct them to this topic, where they'll be offered help with graphics and so on, how to structure a topic with radio stations and vehicles. And watch them grow.

 

Time and energy... this is purely personal preference. Again, big respect for the thought you put into it. But it isn't a prerequisite. Have a quick peek at my first attempt at GTA: London. Hand on heart, I wrote the whole post -- again, basically a wishlist -- in the space of an hour watching Coronation Street and EastEnders on the TV. Maybe it even pushed on into The Bill because you can see the influence in the character names; Carver, Duckworth; Phil Mitchell was probably in it at some point. The post doesn't really reflect it now because of the edits I made, but I knocked it up in next to no time. It was the same with VI: Vice. The content of the thread I first opened was done over a weekend. Graphics were very basic and very rough -- I had no idea how to use software. Story, characters, everything it developed into later, was always a work in progress.

What I hope you take from the London thread, aside from a good laugh, are the posts that aren't mine. People are chipping in with vehicle suggestions, they're helping me with the characters and the gangs, they're making radio stations for me and suggesting where I can improve. Be those people. The lack of content I started out with was a huge advantage because I built interactions based on what people would like to see and how certain features might work in the game. This is why concepts + GTA: NeXt is essential -- speculation co-exists with creativity.

And this is where it's a hard swallow: concepts are being posted from the beginning with excellent graphics, a top soundtrack, thoroughly researched location, characters and period details, but receive little to no interaction. And when you do receive interactions, they aren't the interactions you want: "Great thread!" "Love the music!" "This is amazing bro!". Likes outnumber posts 10:1 and before you know it you're buried under an avalanche of What was better? GTA3 or GTA4? posts. You call it soul-sapping and I completely believe you.

But when you're that good? There isn't much I can do or say except validate you. When your characters are so entrenched with social and political history, when your missions and chapters are written at an incredible length with a high degree of literacy, it's unfortunate but those themes and details are going to go straight over the head of your average GTA fan. If I'm reading your work, I'm taking it in, I'm appreciating how excellent it is, how thorough the details you've created are and I'm telling you so, but I'm probably never going to access it in the way you really want with a level of feedback which is feasible to post on a regular basis. It's possible to bring enthusiasm -- genuine enthusiasm -- but I can never have a back-and-forth on it like I can with the guy who wants to talk about the cars and the music and everything GTA centric.

Throwback to that period Slimeball is talking about -- and if there were golden years, those are closest to them -- and that's what will strike you first: the GTA focus, the emphasis on the GTA canon, the speculation about what would feature in GTAV; will they announce the city from my topic or from yours? The topics from that era, in particular the GTAIV: DLC threads (Blood & A Four Leaf Clover, Code of the Streets, Family Ties, King of the City, Life's Price, From Russia With Love) etc, were very accessible in how they were to read and how they were to develop. They were also very easy to complete and move on from, unless MOB is just a freakishly productive motherf*cker.

What also gets neglected of this time period is that is was pre-like button. We were far, far away from these things you call reactions. Don't give me steaks, son, I'm vegan. The effect of this is simple: if I enjoyed your post, I had to physically post to tell you so. And every time there's a post on my thread, it's bumped up to the top. And when it's at the top, especially when everything GTA Series was listed at the very top of the forums, people will see it. They might not be looking for it but they might wander in there. And I became very happy to receive "great thread!" comments because they kept my topics visible. Never underestimate the power of a throwaway enthusiastic comment and make them whenever you can.

Am I suggesting that you dumb down your content? No. I will never, ever suggest that you take a back step. But you've said yourself -- most of your readers aren't going to have the energy or attention span to digest a topic that is really abstract or stylised in a way that extends beyond the GTA formula, or respond to social and culture cues that are spot on but inaccessible to your average user. This is something you need to account for when you're deciding to devote time and effort into content creating and if it's going to be on this platform or in actual print.

 

Quote

Right now writing this stuff is a hobby for me, a fun and rewarding but ultimately soul-sapping and time-consuming hobby to be specific, and I have very little time for such hobbies if I'm being honest. To give some perspective, writing London Underground made me almost fail my second year in uni. 

 

What I'm taking from this is that you enjoy content creating much more than your degree. Maybe you enjoy both but there's not enough time to go around.

Me, I actually signed in to sh*tpost on whatever I could find in the hopes of breaking a bout of writer's block before an assignment I have due on Friday. It's since turned into a bit of an adventure. Academia's a c*nt, innit?

The obvious suggestion is to work on them between semesters.

But what I would like to you do, especially if developing your projects here isn't rewarding you in the way you want and the inactivity is getting you down, is to seriously consider looking into writing professionally. You aren't the first person I've spoken about this to but this is the first time I've spoken openly about it.

There are some incredibly talented creators here. And I say creators because I recognise much more goes into it than prose alone. Graphics, selections of music, understandings of social and cultural events and the ability to convey those through storytelling. They're all skills.

A lot of my recent life involves reading. Reading through lockdowns, reading on buses, reading in hospital beds. Let me tell you something. There's content I read here that blows a lot of books out of the water and that I enjoy far more. You might think that's a lofty claim but at the bare minimum you aren't any less.

You are at university. Whether you are on campus or off, take advantage of the environment you're in, both in regards to audience and the content you're looking to create. You have a lot of interest in period pieces, right? The 1990s, the new millennium, but currently London in the 1970s. Make use of your library -- find old newspaper articles, ethnographies, social studies, anything that brings you close to life during those periods, and use them to fuel your work. Get your work out there to people who can provide you with genuinely thorough, academic feedback, whether that's approaching people who are enrolled in creative writing classes or joining writers groups. If you are confined to lockdown, then look online -- I've lost count of how many platforms you young'uns have access to.

And here's where I'm ambitious. Don't change the format. Change the names and canon references maybe -- you don't want a visit from a Take-Two retained cease-and-desist goonsquad -- but don't stray from the concept format if that's what you enjoy making. Figure out a way to present it to a broader audience than you have here.

Can you imagine approaching a work of fiction like a GTA game? Front cover like this -- obligatory helicopter in the top corner and eyecandy to the left. Laminate some character cards with bios, print your soundtrack on a sheet, make a fold-out map of your world to include. You'll sacrifice features but not vehicles, guns and locations. You gain the freedom of being able to write beyond an open world sandbox. It would disrupt the f*ck out of traditional books. Find out what it would take to make it work and have a go. Make it a community effort even -- source your graphics from an artist here if you're unable to make your own, your map from a mapmaking thread regular. You're a guerilla writer now, motherf*cker.

Alright. I'm beat. I have messages I have to get to when I log on next time but I'm gonna step away for now.

Keep on. I have high hopes for you lot. Lots of offers to help with tutorials and graphics and support to put us in back in GTA: NeXt... much respect.

Edited September 23, 2021 by The Coconut Kid

[kobeni]

@The Coconut Kid It's a lot to take in and I haven't really read everything in detail, but I really, really appreciate it and thank you for the advice and for sharing your personal experiences and anecdotes. Can't say that I'm not passionate about my degree but I do have the unhealthy tendency to meander on my thoughts and go off-trail in my projects to do a bit of side writing and ideation, which indirectly eats into my assignment time. I've always been interested in graphic novels, manga and comics, though, and in some ways, writing concepts here is an outlet for me to channel out my thoughts into later drawings (though music is also a major motivator and source of influence as well). I wasn't angry or anything, just thought it would be good to get some things off my chest, apologies if the reply might have come across as defensive. You've raised a number of objectively valid points in there regardless, especially with regards to what makes up a concept and the reality of posting a topic like that. I think we can all relate to that feeling of dissatisfaction when members here like your concept for superficial reasons. 

 

As for using the concept writing style for actual professional writing? It's potentially a match made in heaven, and I honestly might try it out someday. Some comics like Deadly Class have actually included song lists in their pages, though they are mostly relegated to author's notes. Making it part of the narrative? Probably a legal issue but I can see it happening.

 

 

Your contributions to this writing community have been second to none, and I am truly grateful for the fact that you're willing to take the time off your day to give this community a great deal of support and a boost in morale.

Edited August 31, 2021 by DownInThePMs

[kobeni]

1 hour ago, The Coconut Kid said:

Don't give me steaks, son, I'm vegan

Alright, I've changed it. Sorry about that.

Edited August 31, 2021 by DownInThePMs