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Pooyan Cyrus

The Concept Creators' Lounge

Recommended Posts

DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, E Revere said:

Sounds like a great idea. I like your character ideas, goes well with the satirical theme of the series. I wouldn't use the Miami Vice remake as a basis though, at least not too much.

thanks, but dont expect it anytime soon

 

one things for sure is that the protagonists arent going to be all that sympathetic in this one, theyre all power hungry men whose time will eventually come to pass once their luck runs out, and are enemies all the way to the end of the game. the concept is going to be told from a hyperlink point of view split into 3 or 4 acts where you begin each act by selecting a character of your choice. kinda like the iv trilogy with chapters and a selection menu.

 

that said many of the characters that i have in mind are arguably worse than the protagonists.

 

miami vice from 2006 was just a minor aesthetic reference to set up the overall look of the city which, in 2011, has a clean, skyscraper-filled skyline. the bigger inspirations are all the others ive mentioned plus games and movies like killer7, the silver case and city of god.

 

 

Edited by DownInTheHole
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DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)

I'm also thinking of doing another concept based in Northern England (Manchester, Liverpool, Southport and the Isle Of Man) in 1974, where your goal is to get to the top of the criminal hierachy by taking over businesses and either wiping out or making alliances with the respective gangs, Tommy Vercetti-style. Mostly inspired by the 90s Guy Ritchie films and the classic caper and spy films from the 60s and 70s, as well as the political and social strife of this era in UK history, such as the IRA bombings, mod/skinhead/rocker culture and Immigration from the Caribbean.

 

You get to select the gender as well as three possible backstories of your protagonist which determine your appearance (Yardie, Firm, IRA), each with a different set of characters and motivations as to why they want to control the activity in the region. Apart from the regular shootouts and fist-to-cuffs, you get to do other activities such as taking part in the underground boxing ring, dressing up as a Buckingham Palace guard and performing stunts on a motorcycle or taking part in a Italian Job-inspired side mission where you steal cash from a gang and you get into a Mini chase across the malls and alleyways. Gender-exclusive and faction-exclusive missions, such as James Bond-inspired honeypot assassination contracts, are also going to be present. 

 

Music will be diverse, and radio stations can range from genres such as hard rock, baroque pop, soft rock, disco and Beatlemania tunes to more niche genres such as Roots Reggae, Northern Soul and French ye-ye music. Expect lots of Bowie in this.

 

As much as I want to do it solo, I'm open to collaboration for this one. If anyone is interested and/or really likes classic British films or Guy Ritchie, do hit me up in my inbox.

Edited by DownInTheHole
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E Revere
47 minutes ago, DownInTheHole said:

I'm also thinking of doing another concept based in Northern England (Manchester, Liverpool, Southport and the Isle Of Man) in 1974, where your goal is to get to the top of the criminal hierachy by taking over businesses and either wiping out or making alliances with the respective gangs, Tommy Vercetti-style. Mostly inspired by the 90s Guy Ritchie films and the classic caper and spy films from the 60s and 70s, as well as the political and social strife of this era in UK history, such as the IRA bombings, mod/skinhead culture and Immigration from the Caribbean.

 

You get to select the gender as well as three possible backstories of your protagonist which determine your appearance (Yardie, Firm, IRA), each with a different set of characters and motivations as to why they want to control the activity in the region. Apart from the regular shootouts and fist-to-cuffs, you get to do other activities such as taking part in the underground boxing ring, dressing up as a Buckingham Palace guard and performing stunts on a motorcycle or taking part in a Italian Job-inspired side mission where you steal cash from a gang and you get into a Mini chase across the malls and alleyways. Gender-exclusive and faction-exclusive missions, such as James Bond-inspired honeypot assassination contracts, are also going to be present. 

 

Music will be diverse, and radio stations can range from genres such as hard rock, baroque pop, soft rock, disco and Beatlemania tunes to more niche genres such as Roots Reggae, Northern Soul and French ye-ye music. Expect lots of Bowie in this.

 

As much as I want to do it solo, I'm open to collaboration for this one. If anyone is interested and/or really likes classic British films or Guy Ritchie, do hit me up in my inbox.

You're f*cking kidding me. I had the exact same idea in mind. Can't believe we coincidentially thought up two of the same ideas. The planets must've perfectly aligned or something. I was thinking of centring a concept around around a vengeance story based in and around Newcastle, insired mainly bt Get Carter among other old films that Michael Caine the legend himself partook in. I'm busy with Cosa Nostra right now but still I wouldn't mind talking it over with you to exchange ideas.

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DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, E Revere said:

You're f*cking kidding me. I had the exact same idea in mind. Can't believe we coincidentially thought up two of the same ideas. The planets must've perfectly aligned or something. I was thinking of centring a concept around around a vengeance story based in and around Newcastle, insired mainly bt Get Carter among other old films that Michael Caine the legend himself partook in. I'm busy with Cosa Nostra right now but still I wouldn't mind talking it over with you to exchange ideas.

epic stuff mate pm me if you got time

Edited by DownInTheHole

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DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)

I'm calling the 70s UK concept GTA: Northern Soul. Here's the list of stations I plan on including in this.

 

Liverpudlian Hits: Soft Rock, Folk Rock, 70s Pop, Hard Rock

Manchester Classic Radio: British Invasion, Psychedelic Rock, Surf Rock, Doo-Wop, 60s Pop, Soul

Hi-Fi Radio: Disco, Funk, Soul

The Mancunian Jukebox: Northern Soul, Rare Groove

Rockers United Radio: Underground Hard Rock, Blues Rock, Pub Rock, Doom Metal, NWOBHM

Sweet FA FM: Protopunk, Glam Rock 

Heavy Choon FM: Rocksteady, Roots Reggae, Ska

Funky Lagos FM: Afrobeat, Soukous, Highlife, Makossa, African Funk

Big Wigs Radio: Classical

Mother of Creation FM: Progressive Rock, Space Rock

Exotica Records: Film Score, Library, Lounge, Exotica, Easy Listening

Sounds of the Sun: Sunshine Pop, Baroque Pop, Psychedelic Pop, Bubblegum Pop

The French Connection: Ye-ye, French Pop

The Voice of Britain: Talk Show

 

Expect to see a lot of FN FALs and European roadsters pop up in this, along with a parody of the Reliant Robin and the Hackney Carriage.

 

Edited by DownInTheHole
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Rebel Yell
Posted (edited)
On 8/10/2020 at 3:46 PM, DownInTheHole said:

I'm also thinking of doing another concept based in Northern England (Manchester, Liverpool, Southport and the Isle Of Man) in 1974, where your goal is to get to the top of the criminal hierachy by taking over businesses and either wiping out or making alliances with the respective gangs, Tommy Vercetti-style. Mostly inspired by the 90s Guy Ritchie films and the classic caper and spy films from the 60s and 70s, as well as the political and social strife of this era in UK history, such as the IRA bombings, mod/skinhead/rocker culture and Immigration from the Caribbean.

 

You get to select the gender as well as three possible backstories of your protagonist which determine your appearance (Yardie, Firm, IRA), each with a different set of characters and motivations as to why they want to control the activity in the region. Apart from the regular shootouts and fist-to-cuffs, you get to do other activities such as taking part in the underground boxing ring, dressing up as a Buckingham Palace guard and performing stunts on a motorcycle or taking part in a Italian Job-inspired side mission where you steal cash from a gang and you get into a Mini chase across the malls and alleyways. Gender-exclusive and faction-exclusive missions, such as James Bond-inspired honeypot assassination contracts, are also going to be present. 

 

Music will be diverse, and radio stations can range from genres such as hard rock, baroque pop, soft rock, disco and Beatlemania tunes to more niche genres such as Roots Reggae, Northern Soul and French ye-ye music. Expect lots of Bowie in this.

 

As much as I want to do it solo, I'm open to collaboration for this one. If anyone is interested and/or really likes classic British films or Guy Ritchie, do hit me up in my inbox.

Promising ideas and interesting premise as far as one can pull it off. 70's UK was basically a cultural melting pot, so it'd be more than great to see something like this. Plus, citing Guy Ritchie films as your source of inspiration is good enough because the British have a suave sense of humor when it comes to crime-themed dark comedies. Selecting your background reminded me of Dragon Age: Origins, which grants you a unique prologue mission and special goals/interactions according to the chosen backstory. 

 

Honestly, I'm not that knowledgeable about England. However, it once slipped my mind to do something identical yet different. I have always thought that 70's British punk scene would be worthwhile to be heavily featured in a GTA game. So, the idea was creating a 70s R'n'R fantasy particularly set in Manchester, and maybe London and nearby satellite towns. Something like "Vinyl meets GTA" I guess. That just ended up as a vague set of ideas in my brain, though. 

Edited by Rebel Yell
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DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)

I'm glad y'all enjoyed the idea. Since it's getting some buzz, I'm going to drop some more lore and storyline on this concept. That said, don't expect a thread out till maybe the end of the year.

 

Sadly there won't be a punk station in this, as it was mostly relegated to the underground in 1974 and also because I wanted to go for a more gritty late-60s, early-70s vibe similar to Fargo Season 2 and Kinji Fukasaku's Yakuza films, being instead replaced by a hard rock and early heavy metal station that plays songs from bands like Budgie, Black Sabbath and Nazareth.

 

That said, it's not going to detract from the experience, and it will still stay true as to how I perceive the ideal British gangster game to play like.

 

As I've mentioned before your character's gender and backstory is customizable so that means you have characters that are exclusive to each storyline.

 

Its going to be split across five or six acts, with an epilogue for each backstory. Each act follows a similar structure where you complete a set of missions or side activities in relation to the established gang or organization in the region before finishing off with a final mission where you either successfully make an alliance with a gang or destroy it, before concluding with an exclusive mission to each backstory.

 

Once you successfully takeover the region and become one of the most powerful figures in The North, the final act is unlocked, with missions exclusive to each backstory, where you have to settle your own scores with your faction, and can range from a betrayal from one of your close associates, or an act of defiance towards your employers, like Tommy in VC.

 

Due to the presence of gender selection, the protagonists are only referred to by their surnames or nicknames and pronouns are usually not thrown around them. I got a rough idea for their storylines. 

 

The Yardie protagonist is named Bowen, nicknamed Bowie, and sometimes Rudeboy or Rudegal. The oldest of the three possible protagonists, Bowen was born in Kingston sometime in 1942, and was raised in Bristol throughout much of his/her teens, before returning to Jamaica, where he/she quickly rose to through the ranks of a local yardie gang known as the Aniston Posse. He/she is able to code switch between Patois and Standard British English whenever the situation calls for it. Bowen was sent to the region in 1974 as a result of an ongoing conflict between Yardie gangs in Kingston, and did so on behalf of his/her boss, Joshua Aniston, and his son, Ezekiel "Zeke" Aniston, who likewise grew up in Bristol and is Bowen's best friend. As a result of the conflict back in Jamaica, Zeke and Joshua send Bowen to Northern England, where he/she is tasked by them to explore new avenues of money making and possible alliances in the region, so that they can make a smooth transition to the city as a result of the lax immigration laws in the UK at the time. As Bowen continues to make progress and amass power in the city however, he/she begins to sense uncertainty in the Aniston Posse, and soon suspects a set-up on either Zeke's or Joshua's part.

 

The Firm protagonist is named Rhodes, and is usually referred to as Silver Spoon, though Son or Lady is also commonly used. The youngest of the three possible protagonists, Rhodes was born sometime in 1953 and was raised in London, where his/her father, Terrence "Terry" Rhodes, was a notorious gangster who heads the Wexley Family in South London, at the time one of the most powerful firms in the UK. Despite growing up rich in London, Rhodes was exposed to the violence of the life from a young age, regularly taking part in jobs with the other gang members as well as establishing himself/herself as a ruthless boxer in the prizefighting underground in the turn of the 70s. Sometime in 1973, however, both Terry and his kin are arrested by the Metro Police in a raid, and Rhodes is suspiciously released soon after. It is revealed that Terry was set up by another gangster named Benedict Kester, a former partner of his whose faction storms the Wexley HQ, holding Rhodes and the rest of the Wexley crew at gunpoint. In exchange for his/her father's life and well being, Ben then orders Rhodes to go to the North to explore opportunities for his gang, due to the economic downturn and increasing immigration the region, and warns him/her not to "act the mickey". In 1974, Rhodes touches down at the Manchester Airport, where he/she begins his/her onslaught across the North in an attempt to preserve his/her father's life a little longer.

 

The IRA protagonist is named Kelly, and is sometimes referred to as Lad or Lass. An undercover Provo operative in England, Kelly was born in Belfast in 1946, to a Catholic Irish father and a Protestant Mancunian mother. Spending much of his/her youth during the conflict in Northern Ireland, Kelly soon joins a local IRA faction sometime in the mid-60s, lead by a charismatic Irish ultranationalist and terrorist named Garland "Garry" Riley, where he/she takes part in operations ranging from outright warfare with the RUC and UDR and car bombings to covert assassinations and blackmail. That said, with the advent of the late 20th century and partly due to Kelly's mixed background, he/she begins to grow disillusioned with the cause, believing it to be all for naught, and by the early 70s, Kelly only sticks around for money. In around 1974, the IRA begins to offer new work to their members, giving them the opportunity to go to the UK to work as spies or operatives for the organization, a role which Kelly is able to fit to a T. The job? Go to Northern England and build up a fearsome criminal reputation there, in order to secure funding for the cause. Kelly is given a handler named Colm O'Shea, who turns out to be just as disillusioned as he/she is. Together, they plot behind the IRA's back, as Kelly, over the course of the storyline, begins to question his/her loyalty to the cause, while the Troubles rage on and Garry begins to piece things together in the region.

 

While there are numerous gangs that occupy much of the territory between the townships in The North, ranging from the Mancunian Triads and the nomadic Gypsies that congregate in Southport to the Yardies in Liverpool, to much more smaller, disorganized gangs comprising of bikers, mods, skinheads, football hooligans, and more.

 

That said, there are two main contenders in the region, which are the McRae Syndicate out of Manchester and Southport and the United Front out of Liverpool, fronted by the McRae Twins and Clyde "Goldfinger" Rafferty, respectively.

 

Hailing from Scotland even further up north, The McRae Twins, consisting of Boyd and Gerard, got their chops from engaging in sheer brutality on every scale, and are known for employing tactics that even the Cosa Nostra would shy away from. Running brothels, extortion rackets, gambling dens, drugs, arms and human trafficking, money laundering and theft outfits across the industrial wastelands and coastal cities of Northern England, and mostly found at stadiums across the region, supporting Manchester City FC, they're the sort of blokes you might want to steer clear of and not accidentally cross paths with, lest you become another nameless statistic. They, and by extent their brigade of gangsters, infamously pioneered the Glasgow Smile, typically after fights or simply as a form of intimidation, where a knife is used to scar a man or woman's face from ear to ear, giving the grisly impression of a permanent, grotesque smile as soon as the slashes heal.

 

Goldfinger, on the other hand, dresses sharp and presents himself as the man who has everything, though the air of corruption permeates with his mere presence. The 59-year old man is the classic British gangster, with a thick Scouse accent to boot, and the proud owner of Liverpool United FC. A veteran of World War II, Mr. Rafferty, as  he is usually known around the region, saw action in North Africa as a Leftie stationed in Tunisia, getting his first taste of crime through running diamonds and gold in the region, which is how he got his name. He receives a Hero's Welcome in '45, and he repays the favor by gunning down the leader of the most powerful firm in Liverpool in broad daylight, and taking over. A self-made man who prides himself in the fact, Goldfinger runs gambling dens, casinos, car dealerships, restaurants and bordellos across the country and has the police and politicians of Liverpool all in his pocket. Capitalizing off de-industrialization and taking advantage of the terrible economic and social situation of the region, Goldfinger, on the surface, looks to be your average old money fart, investing in businesses, funding estates across the city and donating to charities, but make no mistake, he's about as crooked as the next criminal you meet on the street.

 

That said, with the advent of new gangs in the region, both gangs see their duopoly on crime threatened, not to mention internal struggles that the leaders seem to have a hard time handling, creating the perfect storm for a gang war and takeover, as the protagonist finds out later on.

 

Other than gangs, there are a few notable characters that play somewhat of an important role in the concept, just to name a few. Much like the gangs, all of them have their own arc in the acts, which allows the protagonists to learn more about them, and their motivations and roles to the story and world.

 

Errol Adler, your average Jewish banker for the British criminal underworld, runs a loans operation in the region, together with his son and daughter, Dean and Matilda, who dress formally and act as the bean counters to the family business, though they're really a nasty pair of violent enforcers and trained killers. The protagonist can take a loan from them, at their discretion, or do jobs for them, which sometimes involve amputation. 

 

Markus de Klerk, a Rhodesian arms dealer and mercenary with a thick accent who runs an illegal network of surplus arms across Northern England, with their most loyal customers in the region being more-or-less all of the gangs as well as the Provincial IRA. Heavily implied to be funding both sides of the ongoing war back in Rhodesia and also implied to be running blood diamonds with the warlords and death squads in Central and South Africa, Markus is a good-humored, if not entirely cynical man who has seen violence in its rawest form, and he can hook the protagonist up with some top-of-the-line gear and weapons should they need them.

 

Poison, perhaps the strangest character in the game. He is a native Mancunian in his mid-30s dressed in a casual, unkempt suit and tie who is never seen without his aviators , who has the uncanny ability to be able to find the protagonist anywhere, to their shock and confusion, and is heavily implied to be immortal. Always sporting a grin on his face, he serves as the concept's mouthpiece for plot and socio-political exposition to the protagonist, and by extent the player, and he is the first contact the player is told to meet in Northern England, where he appears to be killed after being shot in the head in the prologue, but reappears later at the safehouse, seemingly unharmed and unfazed, as jovial as ever. From that point on, he appears whenever the story calls for it, typically showing up during an important event in the game.

 

Geordie Heron, the local leader of the Southport Gypsies, a nomadic motley crew of thieves and street criminals and a British-Romani community in Northern England. Though he appears to be a daft mental case and deadbeat at first glance, he is later revealed to be a powerful prizefighter, and the ringleader of some of the biggest and most successful heists across Northern England, thanks to his gang's unassuming yet crafty nature.

 

And finally, we have Cristaine Duvalier, called Frenchie by the protagonist, a crooked, yet fun-loving millionaire and member of the Monegasque Elite raised in Essex who happens to be a major shareholder in local British car brands such as Maxwell, Weenie and Enus, though the biggest of them appears to be Dewbauchee, which she owns 79% of. Catching wind of the protagonist's activities across The North, Frenchie contacts them for work, engaging in all manner of white-collar crime, blackmail and violence to sow political and economic uncertainty for profit, in exchange for loads of money and a sweet set of collector cars.

 

Speaking of cars and weapons, the iconic guns of this concept include the Lexington Freehand, a battle rifle based on the British variant of the FN FAL, the Shrewsbury Little Man, based on the Walther PPK as well as the Hawk & Little Celtic, which is based on the Smith & Wesson Model 629. Notable pastiches of real-life car models include the Maxwell Resilient, obviously based on the 1973 Reliant Robin, the Maxwell Cabbie, based on the Austin FX4 Hackney Carriage, the Dewbauchee Rapid GT, based on a 1973 Aston Martin V8 and finally the Pegassi Torero, based on the 1974 Countach. Many other classic cars and European roadsters, along with weapons, will appear in the concept soon once it's ready. The three cities will be connected by means of the M62 Motorway, and there will be a fair amount of countryside in this.

 

I will post some radio stations on the GTA Next thread for this concept when I get the playlists down.

 

Edited by DownInTheHole
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DownInThePMs

A selection of models that I've picked as reference to represent how I picture the protagonists in Northern Soul to look like.

 

Im gonna do something with them in the near future.

 

Spoiler

Bowen

 

Male

85Mm2ev.jpg

 

Female

CYyfkjf.jpg

 

Rhodes

 

Male

RuOyvMQ.jpg

 

Female

p9ZvsVc.jpg

 

Kelly

 

Male

uVsaZSy.jpg

 

Female

eZYNeZ1.jpg

 

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mikestanley464
Posted (edited)
On 6/27/2014 at 8:40 PM, ClaudX said:

You really should've named this "The Creators Lounge 2.0", but that's cool. Anyways, I'm making my way to posting my concept in the next week or so. I'm going with 2 protagonists to better establish a Father/Son relationship that V failed on delivering. These are my protagonists.

 

Raymond Carter-Caucasian, 48, born and raised in Carcer City (Detroit), joined the gang Youth Enterprises (Young Boys Inc.) at age 13, left to Midway ((Chicago) I changed Chicago to Midway, although it was Indianapolis' name originally), became a wealthy businessman, although retired from crime, his past tracks him down and tries to kill him. omegle bluestacks
Kyle James-Caucasian, 24, found himself in a life of crime and doesn't want to pull himself out of it, resides in Speedway (Indianapolis), finds Raymond as a "father figure", wants to gain influence in the state and make his mark.

Any thoughts? Should I add a third protagonist to compliment the third city?

very cool design

On 6/27/2014 at 8:40 PM, ClaudX said:

You really should've named this "The Creators Lounge 2.0", but that's cool. Anyways, I'm making my way to posting my concept in the next week or so. I'm going with 2 protagonists to better establish a Father/Son relationship that V failed on delivering. These are my protagonists.

 

Raymond Carter-Caucasian, 48, born and raised in Carcer City (Detroit), joined the gang Youth Enterprises (Young Boys Inc.) at age 13, left to Midway ((Chicago) I changed Chicago to Midway, although it was Indianapolis' name originally), became a wealthy businessman, although retired from crime, his past tracks him down and tries to kill him.

Kyle James-Caucasian, 24, found himself in a life of crime and doesn't want to pull himself out of it, resides in Speedway (Indianapolis), finds Raymond as a "father figure", wants to gain influence in the state and make his mark.

Any thoughts? Should I add a third protagonist to compliment the third city?

 

Edited by mikestanley464

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Big Fat Paulie
Posted (edited)

Thinking of what pictures to use for the Capital City concept that @Matsukine and I have been working on. We've got three protagonists: Carlos (a courier from Central America now stuck in the US), Natalya (deep-cover IAA agent infiltrating a white-collar crime outfit), and Steve (exiled Lost MC biker hiding from the Angels of Death and trying to start a new chapter of the club)

 

 

Edited by Big Fat Paulie
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DownInThePMs
Posted (edited)

This was a bad idea lol

Edited by DownInTheHole
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universetwisters

ngl if I see one more goddamn concept that takes place in pre-9/11 Liberty City running off the cliche that "New YoRk WaS fUlL oF cRiMe BaCk ThEn" I'm gonna arrange to get some dental work done with a shotgun. Like daaang, at least the rootin tootin gangbangin CJ ripoff concepts from 10 years ago had some variety in setting.

  • KEKW 1

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Cebra
9 hours ago, universetwisters said:

ngl if I see one more goddamn concept that takes place in pre-9/11 Liberty City running off the cliche that "New YoRk WaS fUlL oF cRiMe BaCk ThEn" I'm gonna arrange to get some dental work done with a shotgun. Like daaang, at least the rootin tootin gangbangin CJ ripoff concepts from 10 years ago had some variety in setting.

idk why you didn't say as much in the concept topic itself despite being directed at us but it still stands that that's not exactly a fair criticism - New York as a breeding ground for so many variations and intersections of the criminal underworld isn't a cliche, it's a truism, especially in the time periods we've decided to interact with. in fact that's the explicit admission we made with Third Rail; pretending otherwise is just close-minded handwaving and forfeits the potential for telling what are hopefully legitimately good stories because of meaningless aesthetic things like 'avoiding the same setting twice because some people don't read beyond the broad strokes'.

 

the idea with Red Line was, besides 90s LC being an interesting setting in and of itself because despite how many concepts over the years have tried to tackle it without really delving into what makes it special as a setting, it's been something of a mission statement to go above and beyond throwing a pre-9/11 setting out there as a playground and nothing else. it's as much a deconstruction of the advent of neoliberalism and naive optimism that's basically endemic to that time before 9/11 as anything. our concepts have basically always prioritized narrative over aesthetic ludological things like a sh*tty car list or a three paragraph dissertation on your ability to dual wield. a concept set in Sh*tf*ck, Midwest could easily offer its own distinctly valuable attributes, sure - just not for the stories we want to tell right now.

 

so Third Rail comes from that same place - further exploring the universe we've created that grew out of GTA IV and ideally telling a good story to support it. you can stratify NYC decade by decade, easy: the early 1980s offered the perfect storm to combine real world events like the Commission trial, undoing of the Westies, the lasting effects of Koch's mayoralty, the city as a whole's transition from the 1970s hellhole its reputation testified to (especially the way austerity f*cking wrecked the Bronx and Queens alongside the legacy of Robert Moses), and how gentrification dug it out of that standing with all that implied. it's those things alongside a million different GTA-universe factors; Derrick McReary's story encapsulating all that sh*t alongside his unique position as a drug-addled revolutionary in the midst of the criminal and political worlds New York did, and probably always will, sit at the crossroads of.

 

nobody else has done this or even tried. I wish Tyla stuck around long enough so we could see what LC78 had to say on the same broad ideas but that didn't pan out either. the bottom line is saying there's no variety in what we've presented, let alone saying concepts from 2009 where CJ paired up with The Truth to take the green goo back to Mars are better - just because Third Rail takes place in LC - is just sort of ignorant and demeans what we've been doing with concepts in general. catering to the whims of anyone who's turned off by the entire thing just because we're revisiting the same city 30 years earlier would have meant stifling our own creative expression, and you know - no thanks!

Edited by Cebra
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universetwisters
8 hours ago, Cebra said:

idk why you didn't say as much in the concept topic itself despite being directed at us

 

I literally did though in the last concept set in pre 9/11 Liberty City (red line?)

 

idk like I like the effort and stuff put into them but I’m just broadly expressing that I wish there were more concepts that took place in other locations (downinthehole’s Carcer City comes to the forefront of my mind) than a place I’ve seen already in two games, two DLCs and a dozen concepts already. So what about making GTAverse analogies to real life crime? I know I’m probably in the minority here but if I’m gonna read a concept, I want to read something that’s got a unique setting that hasn’t been done dozens of times before to the point where they all start to run together but with different coats of paint 

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slimeball supreme
23 minutes ago, universetwisters said:

idk like I like the effort and stuff put into them but

See do you though. I think comparing something with "effort and stuff" put into it to like CJ stealing green goo (a deliberate comparison to something amateurish) doesnt really seem like liking any effort put into it at all. I dont really care either way but Id at least appreciate if you honestly said you just didnt like what we made after reading the first three lines in the OP instead of platitudes

 

27 minutes ago, universetwisters said:

I’m just broadly expressing that I wish there were more concepts that took place in other locations (downinthehole’s Carcer City comes to the forefront of my mind) than a place I’ve seen already in two games, two DLCs and a dozen concepts already.

Make one then. Nobody is stopping you from chipping in and helping to diversify concepts if you want to read about a neat location and a list of cars and songs - however, don't discount the works of other people who find an interest in a particular setting, especially one as diverse and multifaceted as the ever changing city of new york. You've seen it already, sure, but every creative interpretation of something has a little bit, at least, of a difference in how it is covered and executed and expressed. I think the story of Derrick McReary and his pals is one that deserves extrapolation just the same as a significant amount of IV's supporting cast. We felt it was so interesting in fact we put another concept on the backburner to push it out immediately while a soup of incredible real life events and politics collided. Oh speaking of

 

30 minutes ago, universetwisters said:

So what about making GTAverse analogies to real life crime? I know I’m probably in the minority here but if I’m gonna read a concept, I want to read something that’s got a unique setting that hasn’t been done dozens of times before to the point where they all start to run together but with different coats of paint 

Grand theft auto has always, always been highly influenced by real life events, crimes, characters, etc. This runs into characters, missions, protagonists. In IV alone there are so many references to obscure events in New York City - both through criminal enterprises and legitimate day-to-day events in the city, to the goddamn f*cking restrictions on soda cups - that i still find new ones while researching. Im not going to jerk myself off. The important thing to consider is i cannot think of a single concept, including my own, that hasnt been influenced by real life events or fiction. A lot of people in this thread especially are pretty happy to list their influences, many of which have been interpreted and reinterpreted, and many of which can be traced back (once again) to real life events. Down in the hole's carcer city is an amalgamation of rust belt collapse and actively mentions real life and fictional analogies throughout. If you dont want those kinds of real life parallels and commentary on politics, baby you dont want GTA!

 

I respect the ballsiness to kind of brazenly just say we and others are hacks. Fine man, thats dope, keep up the f*cking hustle. Dont be dishonest about it though. We actively acknowledged, and i think justified, why LC is necessary for this story - and hey, if it makes you feel any better this is probably our last concept in NYC anyway. its a concept that will never and could never be a real game (and thats the point), but its a story were passionate about and think we want to tell. plus I had a, lets say, creative dispute with an individual I was working with and have sort of 'put aside' a prior work we were doing together. its a f*cking ball let me tell you. but in its place we have third rail which we decided was a better use of the setting and a sort of creative cohesiveness we both have. its intricately connected and references, in fact, a long-ranging list of fiction (including detailed writing) i think are worth checking out. i know you wont but i mean i think so

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universetwisters
9 hours ago, slimeball supreme said:

Make one then.

I used to back in the day. Made one set in Washington DC, Richmond VA and one of my first threads (now-deleted) was one in Cumberland MD. Idk why but I think there's a certain uniquity in taking an average everyday place and trying to find the crime within it as opposed to just taking a place known for its crime and thinking "ah yes this is perfect for a story about crime because there's already dozens of instances of stories about crime here"

 

9 hours ago, slimeball supreme said:

Grand theft auto has always, always been highly influenced by real life events, crimes, characters, etc.

But they aren't as on-the-nose as you're saying your concept is. Yeah, Downinthehole's Carcer City concept is about the rust belt collapse, but that's about it. It isn't like it's actively yanking real life crimes and throwing a coat of GTAverse paint over it. There's still some originality in there. 

 

9 hours ago, slimeball supreme said:

I respect the ballsiness to kind of brazenly just say we and others are hacks.

I literally never said you were though 

 

9 hours ago, slimeball supreme said:

Im not going to jerk myself off.

You literally are with these walls of texts to a simple "I wish more concepts took place in places other than Liberty City" statement

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Big Fat Paulie
1 hour ago, universetwisters said:

I used to back in the day. Made one set in Washington DC, Richmond VA and one of my first threads (now-deleted) was one in Cumberland MD. Idk why but I think there's a certain uniquity in taking an average everyday place and trying to find the crime within it as opposed to just taking a place known for its crime and thinking "ah yes this is perfect for a story about crime because there's already dozens of instances of stories about crime here"

 

Oddly enough, @Matsukine and I are working together on a concept that is primarily focused on DC and Virginia with Maryland and West Virginia featured as well. Both Washington DC (Capital City) and Richmond (Henrico) are present as major cities on the map alongside the cities of Byron (Baltimore), Polaris Valley (Roanoke) and Kanawha City (Charleston, WV) 

Edited by Big Fat Paulie
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universetwisters
1 minute ago, Big Fat Paulie said:

Oddly enough, @Matsukine and I are working together on a concept that is primarily focused on DC and Virginia with Maryland and West Virginia featured as well. Both Washington DC (Capital City) and Richmond (Henrico) are present as major cities on the map alongside the cities of Byron (Baltimore), Polaris Valley (Roanoke) and Kanawha City (Charleston, WV) 


Is Alexandria gonna be there? I'll be so hyped if it is I can't wait to humor the idea of f*cking sh*t up in my hometown. 

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DownInThePMs
3 hours ago, Big Fat Paulie said:

Oddly enough, @Matsukine and I are working together on a concept that is primarily focused on DC and Virginia with Maryland and West Virginia featured as well. Both Washington DC (Capital City) and Richmond (Henrico) are present as major cities on the map alongside the cities of Byron (Baltimore), Polaris Valley (Roanoke) and Kanawha City (Charleston, WV) 

When is the concept thread for that going to be out? I'm actually pretty stoked for that tbh

 

The stations so far seem pretty promising but i havent heard much story save for the protags

Edited by DownInTheHole
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DownInThePMs

Thinking of doing small character icons in a similar style to gta london that emote differently during conversations when i write the missions in northern soul, kinda like chinatown wars

 

Might be fun

 

Ill post some work once the sem ends

Edited by DownInTheHole
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slimeball supreme
11 hours ago, universetwisters said:

Idk why but I think there's a certain uniquity in taking an average everyday place and trying to find the crime within it as opposed to just taking a place known for its crime and thinking "ah yes this is perfect for a story about crime because there's already dozens of instances of stories about crime here"

i disagree inherently because every gta and i think every crime story benefits from real life or just any kind of basis. this applies to gta locations like vice city's glamorous coke fueled insanity or los santos' history of gang crime and skeezy entertainment. the same goes for prospective locations ive wanted to make concepts of including dc - f*cking scumbag political intrigue; atlanta and the BMF, border crime in el paso, the krays, etc. even as a jumping off point the setting is interesting. because these are inherently political games. i dont dispute smaller or more niche settings are interesting too however but i feel theres a uniqueness here especially when covering aspects others ignore or even painting over in broad strokes

 

11 hours ago, universetwisters said:

Yeah, Downinthehole's Carcer City concept is about the rust belt collapse, but that's about it.

yeah and the broad strokes of those politics. or at least id hope it goes deeper right? with what i make, and you can call it "yanking real life crimes and throwing a coat of GTAverse paint over it", but there's all kinds of politics inherent to the setting worth exploring, and i feel that in red line and third rail theres an explicitly important point to make about that. derrick as a literal politically motivated gangster and the jumbled politics of gang crime that people always oversimplify. all roads lead to new york when it comes to oc, and it has since the revolutionary war

 

11 hours ago, universetwisters said:

I literally never said you were though 

 

11 hours ago, universetwisters said:

But they aren't as on-the-nose as your concept is. / There's still some originality in there. [in other works but not mine]

well i guess i cant respect the ballsiness. i would if it were

 

11 hours ago, universetwisters said:

You literally are with these walls of texts to a simple "I wish more concepts took place in places other than Liberty City" statement

im going to ignore the weasel words of 'youre saying' and just kind of fixate on you comparing my work to amateurish cj saves the world sh*t, or calling it unoriginal, or saying im jerking myself off for trying to explain myself to you. im sorry for taking you seriously! next time ill tell you to get f*cked or whatever instead of relating to you and explaining our reasoning. it was kind of an implied shot at us, especially since it was posted immediately after we posted our thing. like im not an idiot right? i can tell. i do not care if you do not like it. id actually respect it more if you just said it instead of pretending you think otherwise

 

but also

 

6 hours ago, DownInTheHole said:

Thinking of doing small character icons in a similar style to gta london that emote differently during conversations when i write the missions in northern soul, kinda like chinatown wars

i think thats actually a great idea. with topic formatting and the forum its always great to play around with visuals in a way that makes it more accessible. we're doing something similar with third rail by interspersing it with embedded images of locations and characters/playing with gfx ideas. its a lot of fun

Edited by slimeball supreme
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universetwisters
3 minutes ago, slimeball supreme said:

im going to ignore the weasel words of 'youre saying' and just kind of fixate on you comparing my work to amateurish cj saves the world sh*t, or calling it unoriginal, or saying im jerking myself off for trying to explain myself to you. im sorry for taking you seriously! next time ill tell you to get f*cked or whatever instead of relating to you and explain our reasoning. it was kind of an implied shot at us, especially since it was posted immediately after we posted our thing. like im not an idiot right? i can tell. i do not care if you do not like it. id actually respect it more if you just said it instead of pretending you think otherwise

 

My guy I literally never compared your sh*t to "amateurish cj saves the world sh*t" so could you stop putting words in my mouth that would be great. Although I feel like you wanting to write walls of text and calling me out within the concept (WE'RE GONNA MAKE A MILLION CONCEPTS IN THIS sh*tHOLE CITY BEFORE WE STOP) to me merely pointing out that there's already a lot of concepts set in LC and it's starting to get stale is kinda childish. Like not everything is about you or your concept, and if you think it is then that's your problem 

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slimeball supreme

i dont even think its worth fighting over i have no problem with you. if it wasnt directed at me my bad, i also didnt call you out as much as we were just self-aware of the fact the city has been used so much so we made a few digs at the fact. that predates this discussion. it was posted literally immediately afterward so excuse us for making the connection. and you did also draw the comparison with the cj ripoff sh*t and i wanted to kind of explain myself to you. walls of text or whatever are just how i conversate and idk i thought youd be open to it. its fine though i havent got any beef

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universetwisters
11 minutes ago, slimeball supreme said:

its fine though i havent got any beef

 

That's a relief because I'm a vegetarian 

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DownInThePMs

Well with regards to the argument going on here, I'm afraid I'm going to have to take UT's side on this. As much as I'd love someone to fully explore a particular setting, lore and characters during a specific place and a specific time, bringing readers to the same locale more than three times in a row, no matter how knowledgeable you are of the socio-political and crime dynamics in the area, is a big red flag for me, and it's just something that, as a reader myself, I find gets stale very quickly, and no amount of justification, creative or otherwise, is going to detract me from that point of view.

 

On 9/8/2020 at 2:15 PM, slimeball supreme said:

i disagree inherently because every gta and i think every crime story benefits from real life or just any kind of basis. this applies to gta locations like vice city's glamorous coke fueled insanity or los santos' history of gang crime and skeezy entertainment.

I disagree. Take the Fargo movie and TV series, for example. small-town Minnesota and ND aren't exactly the type of places you'd expect big-crime syndicates and drug running to happen, but you're still left with fantastic, darkly-comedic crime dramas with memorable characters, accents, dialogue and settings. The Fargo Mob, which is led by Hanzee in Season 1, doesn't actually exist in real life, but we feel a genuine threat from those mobsters as well as characters like Lorne Malvo, not because they're based on some obscure criminal element in those parts, but because of great and believable writing. This extends to shows like Banshee as well, which is set in rural Amish Country in Pennsylvania and yet contains just about as much sex and violence as films like Crank or Shoot 'em Up.

 

I even think that The Coen Brothers/Noah Hawley left their famous tagline at the start of the film precisely to poke fun at the sort of people who wanted a crime story based on a real-life event.

 

Tom Phillips on Twitter: "This is like people finding out Fargo isn't  actually based on a true story.… "

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2017/05/23/how-much-fargo-actually-based-true-story

 

Even Mafia 3, technical and gameplay issues aside and one of the best gritty crime dramas around, which is based in a New Orleans pastiche, could have been taken place in any other Southern city such as Memphis or Miami, or even in New York City or New Jersey, but Hangar 13 still opted to have the story be set in New Bordeaux. You know why? Because a crime game set in 1960s Jim Crow South has never been done before, let alone in New Orleans, which is a melting pot of different influences, cultures and accents, and therefore creates a very unique type of experience which isn't the same old NYC, Floridian or Californian pulp you'd get in most crime stories, and that story still turned out great, and the only elements they took from real life are the actual New Orleans mob (which the Marcanos are loosely based on) and the racial tensions during this time. I don't remember events such as a steamboat explosion with dozens of dead rich people or a dead white man hanging from a ferris wheel ever happening in 1968 New Orleans in real life.

 

Artistic liberties, I feel, should be taken in any creative narrative work that you do, and basing any story too much on reality is only going to tighten that vice of creativity on yourself and shut your mind off from other possible ventures. You write a story not just because of all the great characterizations and dynamics you have in your head, but also because, as cliche as it sounds, it's cool and fresh.

 

I hear my Carcer City concept being used as an example for the real-life Rust Belt dynamic a lot in this argument, so I'm just going to set the record straight here.

 

 Three-quarters of the sh*t Ive included in there aren't even based on the events that actually happened in Detroit, or elsewhere for that matter.

 

A mid-to-late 90s time period was chosen because it really is a period which I've never seen be thoroughly explored in today's media, despite it being a hotbed for music, entertainment, movies and aesthetics (the only 3D GTA game set during this time was LCS, but I didn't really get that distinct 90s feel) I did not pick it just because Detroit was particularly sh*t during this time in real life. I could have set it in the 70s or 80s, which were more apt time frames for the kind of gritty Rust Belt storyline which I had going for in this,  but I didn't, because I wanted a cool mid-to-late 90s, early-Y2K atmosphere, forgotten with all the 80s nostalgia going on right now which hopefully ends this decade, that was both memorable as well as a homage to that time period.

 

The two big gangs in my concept, which play a major role in the main storyline, are completely made-up. The Pharaohs were a weird amalgamation of the Black Mafia Family, which was actually based in Atlanta and along the West Coast, the Vice Kings from Saints Row and extremist civil rights groups such as the Panthers, and The Motor Union was more or less based on the rhetorical question of: what if these Rust Belt factory workers actually took action against their situation and formed an organization to fight and make a positive change for themselves? The story after that simply explores what happens when these two ideals clash with each other, and depicts how said ideals fail with greed and corruption. Any political and socio-economic connection I had in mind for this was amped up to 11, just as GTA always was.

 

A Native American protagonist was chosen because I feel like they are a group of people I felt that never really had the spotlight in real life and also because I wanted to explore the parallels between the bad reservations like Pine Ridge and rust belt cities, places which are left behind by the federal government and where people living here are ghosts of their former selves and the generally bleak outlook of their lives means that their worldviews are nihilistic or cynical in nature. Setting it in the mid 90s was also a great coincidence because you can explore Ricky's childhood during the 70s, which coincidentally is a time when the infamous Wounded Knee protests happened (which is covered in chapter 5, but this is still very much character-driven in nature). See Marlo Brando's Oscar acceptance speech if you want to learn more about it. I could have made Ricky an African-American, considering the predominantly black population that lives in the Metro Detroit area, but I didn't.

 

Unique storylines will always thrive better than the same old mobster story and that's what Dan and Co. have always been doing in their games since IV, up until their departure, and even if they did, they will always deconstruct or take a great spin on it to the point of it being unrecognizable or ridiculous, which is where the satirical elements really do shine.

 

Restricting yourself to one angle is never a good thing, and as concept writers with absolute freedom over anything, with no budgetary or managerial worries like music licensing or political correctness, the door is always wide open for numerous possibilities, which is partly the reason why Northern Soul would be set in Northern England during the early-70s.

 

Sorry for the rant.

Edited by DownInTheHole
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slimeball supreme
48 minutes ago, DownInTheHole said:

no amount of justification, creative or otherwise, is going to detract me from that point of view.

Alright. Fair enough then

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universetwisters

Found this silly magazine cover and it made me think of concept creators. Pls dont spam my inbox with literal novels explaining why Liberty City is going to be milked as a location until the end of time

 

Steinberg-View_World-New_Yorker-poster_2400x.jpg

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DownInThePMs
6 hours ago, universetwisters said:

Pls dont spam my inbox with literal novels explaining why Liberty City is going to be milked as a location until the end of time

Ok bro im going to spam your inbox with literal novels explaining why Liberty City is going to be milked as a location until the end of time

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slimeball supreme

Sounds good

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universetwisters
1 hour ago, DownInThePMs said:

Ok bro im going to spam your inbox with literal novels explaining why Liberty City is going to be milked as a location until the end of time

 

Please don’t I’m a BUSY MAN okay I spend 20 hours a day sitting at a call center trying to sell timeshares in Key West I literally don’t have the time to read an entire college thesis worth of fanfiction arguments

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