The Worst Of Rockstar Logic

[xz_VyRus]

*Gets to Arcade in inv.only session, starts prep

*Gets to Facility in inv.only session, You need to be in a public lobby

 

Sincerely Why R*...

[Gaffa]

A security guard is a cop.
Apparently.

 

You certainly can't go near any of them with a "fading wanted level" because then you'll be "fully wanted" again. 

[Gaffa]

Special Cargo sale... one single crate. 
Need to do 3 deliveries via the Cuban 800.

How do you split one crate into three deliveries? 

[Rotorhead359]

1 hour ago, Gaffa said:

Special Cargo sale... one single crate. 
Need to do 3 deliveries via the Cuban 800.

How do you split one crate into three deliveries? 

This reminds me. When Smuggler's Run first came out, I dived right in, sourced one crate and went to sell it to see what would happen. Guess which mission I got.

Spoiler

the 3 bloody havoks with 2 drops each (6 total)

So I guess you can even split one crate in 6 parts: front, back, 2 sides, top and bottom.

made me quit air freight for a week until the guides and the numbers were out.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by AirWolf359

[Kiethblacklion]

Given the "logic" of a lot of this game's features, I would certainly like to know how the studio divides the work load. I assume they would have different groups/teams working on different aspects of the game at the same time but do any of them talk to one another? The game feels like their is no cohesion within the company in terms of what the game should be, should do, and should allow.

[Arrows to Athens]

5 hours ago, Gaffa said:

Special Cargo sale... one single crate. 
Need to do 3 deliveries via the Cuban 800.

How do you split one crate into three deliveries? 

I’ve never understood this either. 

[Gaffa]

6 hours ago, Kiethblacklion said:

Given the "logic" of a lot of this game's features, I would certainly like to know how the studio divides the work load. I assume they would have different groups/teams working on different aspects of the game at the same time but do any of them talk to one another? The game feels like their is no cohesion within the company in terms of what the game should be, should do, and should allow.

 

You're really right, and it's almost alarming. I guess we're supposed to forgive the last update, the Cayo Perico Heist DLC as it was worked on from home by people all over the place, but we can only really go so far with the forgiveness. 

Back in 2017 we had the Gunrunning DLC update, and I've been doing a few supply missions for that on a new character. 
It crossed my mind that there's one mission where you have to go deep into Humane Labs to get a Railgun which is your supplies - upon picking that Railgun up, the global timer starts counting down to warn you you're about to show on the map for all players - but yet you've still got to fight your way to the exit and get out... 

Yet, on another supply mission for the Bunker you have to go into the abandoned mine. On that mission, the global timer only starts once you've exited the mine, after having navigated your way out. 

What? 

There's also the obvious one with the chairs... some will say press right on the d-pad to access the computer or whatever, some will say press A. Standing up from these computers / chairs is another one, "is it the B button or do I have to press D-pad right" because again there's just no consistency?

When leaving your CEO Office normally, you're given a few options in a Native UI menu system to choose whether you want to leave to the roof or ground or via personal vehicle, etc. 
Yet, on the prep mission where we steal weapons for the Cayo Perico heist, we have some "press left to exit on the roof, press right to exit on the ground" thing. 
Go figure. 

[Coleco]

Been doing Cargo Steal missions lately because I'm a complete masochist I wanted a discounted Seabreeze. Yeah, I'm a cheapskate and if there's a hint of paying less for something I'm gonna do what it takes to save some money.

 

I'm bored of Ron's convoluted attempts to get me to fly everything from Concorde to the Wright Brothers' plane when my faithful Buzzard attack chopper (that I paid GOOD MONEY FOR) does a better job in half the time. Imagine my surprise when it turns out that this is an option if you're a CEO.

Only thing is, the homing missiles are disabled. No biggie, so I have to manually aim. But still... why?

 

So you CAN do it this way, but with an added annoying little hurdle. Just a little "f*ck you" from the dev team because we made all those special widdle aircraft and damn it, you're gonna use them one way or another. Lock-on missiles? Pffft... why would you use such a devastatingly efficient approach when you can just carpet-bomb haphazardly in the general area of an often moving target? Of course, how foolish of me, thinking that using the right tool for the job would make sense. How dare I. What an idiot I am.

 

 

What happened to this philosophy to gameplay, courtesy of the GTA1 box:

 

 

Why make these constant irritating and inconsistent little variations on the player's abilities, particularly when we are given the perfect opportunity to use our expensive in-game toys and useful abilities?

 

 

 

(oh and also, to the designer who thought it was essential to have infinitely-spawning AI choppers/jets chasing you in every mission - as if other players aren't tenacious enough - who hurt you in your youth?)

 

[Gaffa]

The Pacific Standard Job: 
Stealing cash... If and when a player's bag is shot - even by a teammate, you'll lose money. 

 

Diamond Casino Heist and Cayo Perico Heist:
Stealing artwork / diamonds / gold / tequila / necklace / bearer bonds / weed / cocaine - you lose money when you lose health, not just when you're shot.

Sorry, what? 
No consistency to that design mechanic - and how does stuff like a necklace in a "cushioned compartment" lose value if the player hurts themselves? Makes absolutely no sense. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Gaffa

[God-eater]

19 hours ago, Gaffa said:

The Pacific Standard Job: 
Stealing cash... If and when a player's bag is shot - even by a teammate, you'll lose money. 

 

Diamond Casino Heist and Cayo Perico Heist:
Stealing artwork / diamonds / gold / tequila / necklace / bearer bonds / weed / cocaine - you lose money when you lose health, not just when you're shot.

Sorry, what? 
No consistency to that design mechanic - and how does stuff like a necklace in a "cushioned compartment" lose value if the player hurts themselves? Makes absolutely no sense. 

 

Well, technically the Ruby Necklace (or any main target) doesn't get diminished. Just the secondaries. But I do agree that only bullets should damage secondary loot or loot from DCH/Pac Standard. I don't see how ramping a bike into the water can hurt cash/gold/etc (and I must assume the duffels are waterproof). 

 

While I'm on it, gold has pretty much the exact same density as lead, so while bullets would deform it, it certainly wouldn't destroy it. Plus, that gold is getting melted down & recast by the fence anyway, so its condition shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand, artwork would have its value utterly destroyed by more than 1 or 2 bullet holes, so there's that.

 

At the end of the day, it's all just a bullsh*t mechanic to reduce our income because R*/T2 execs wake up in a cold sweat after having a terrible nightmare that a GTA player was able to make decent money without buying it.

 

Something I refer to as 'The Illusion of Wealth' is how they'll dangle money in front of you, give with one hand but take away with the other. The most egregious example has to be Cayo, where they'll show the 'potential take' as including every last bit of secondary loot on the island, even though it's physically impossible for even a 4-man team to collect it all. Then there's the aforementioned reduction-by-damage, fencing/laundering fees, daily fees, sale missions locked to public, timers in the DCH vault, cuts for support crew who do basically f*ck-all (like, you give a guy 5-10% cut to source vehicles/weapons, his contribution is to tell you where you can go steal them yourself. Oh, but for an extra 50K they'll provide a clean vehicle that will spawn 2/3rds of the way to the drop point, ie somewhere useless, or a decoy gunner who won't kick in till you're in the getaway cars, and incidentally will prevent you from losing cops till his timer runs down), ludicrously ramped-up damage costs on I/E vehicles... the list goes on. 

 

Don't even get me started on car prices. Like, a 1972 VW Beetle sells for about two and a half grand, but the Weevil goes for $650K in Los Santos. Fuuuuck all the way off.

 

Anyway, R* now operates with same mentality as all those freemium mobile game - "get players addicted, then frustrate them into paying". I swear sh*t like that should be illegal. 

[Moewe]

5 minutes ago, God-eater said:

 

While I'm on it, gold has pretty much the exact same density as lead, 

 

That got me thinking.

A full bag of gold is worth 500k means it weighs less than 10kg (22 pounds) but he takes like 25-30 gold ingots. That shoud be like 25-30kg and this shoud be worth like 1 414 000$. And swimming with that sh*t.....

(i calculate it with a rather low weight)

[EkaSwede]

1 hour ago, Moewe755 said:

That got me thinking.

A full bag of gold is worth 500k means it weighs less than 10kg (22 pounds) but he takes like 25-30 gold ingots. That shoud be like 25-30kg and this shoud be worth like 1 414 000$. And swimming with that sh*t.....

(i calculate it with a rather low weight)

Shouldn't we take fencing costs into account as well. Stolen goods usually sell for less what they're valued so maybe the 500K is the value after the fencing fee.

 

And of course, then there's the 10% fencing fee from Mini Madrazo

 

However, as for Coke and Weed LJT is still ripping us off.

[Kiethblacklion]

6 hours ago, God-eater said:

Then there's the aforementioned reduction-by-damage, fencing/laundering fees, daily fees, sale missions locked to public, timers in the DCH vault, cuts for support crew who do basically f*ck-all (like, you give a guy 5-10% cut to source vehicles/weapons, his contribution is to tell you where you can go steal them yourself. Oh, but for an extra 50K they'll provide a clean vehicle that will spawn 2/3rds of the way to the drop point, ie somewhere useless, or a decoy gunner who won't kick in till you're in the getaway cars, and incidentally will prevent you from losing cops till his timer runs down), ludicrously ramped-up damage costs on I/E vehicles... the list goes on. 

 

Anyway, R* now operates with same mentality as all those freemium mobile game - "get players addicted, then frustrate them into paying". I swear sh*t like that should be illegal. 

Such as the daily fees of paying your mechanic, your assistant, your property taxes for all the criminal businesses that you own...if you don't pay attention, you end up having more money taken out of your account than you make. Granted, running a few contact missions on hard and you can make enough money to cover the costs of a few in-game days worth of daily costs, but mechanics like that shouldn't be in a game like this. It's like the repair costs in Warface; you have to spend money after every mission round to repair your weapons and armor and it is ALWAYS more than your rewards UNLESS you buy special reward boosts, which cost real money to replenish. 

 

Why should I pay a mechanic a daily fee when I don't use him every in game day? 

[Kiethblacklion]

5 hours ago, EkaSwede said:

Shouldn't we take fencing costs into account as well. Stolen goods usually sell for less what they're valued so maybe the 500K is the value after the fencing fee.

 

And of course, then there's the 10% fencing fee from Mini Madrazo

 

However, as for Coke and Weed LJT is still ripping us off.

 

And all of this is why I enjoy playing Pay Day; you are paid to rob a bank and you get to keep any extra bags that you pull out. You're not penalized with fees and such when you're done. Not too mention, when you rob a bank you're not on a timer AND you walk out of there with an appropriate amount of loot; none of this $1 million to split between 4 people stuff that Rockstar did with that big bank heist. Seriously, 4 people robbing a bank and you only walk out with a little over a million bucks?

[God-eater]

@Kiethblacklion, well, your mechanic, assistant, etc are employees, not contractors, so it stands to reason that you pay them whether you use them or not. Same with properties - it's utility bills. And those fees are miniscule anyway - a single Sentinel/Sandking sale offsets them completely.

 

The ones I have issues with are the MC businesses. While I acknowledge that I haven't paid those fees in years, I remember them being upwards of 30K per day if you have 4 or 5 of them plus a Bunker - it meant that while you're in your MC, you're pretty much obliged to work off those fees or lose money, and it meant that your MC business profits were going to be garbage once you factored in either buying supplies or the daily fees accrued over the time it takes to fully resupply & sell 5 businesses.

 

Then, of course, there are the raids, which cost you product even if you successfully deal with the raid. The MC bizzos are where I developed my 'Illusion of Weath' theory - you think you're making money because of the big payout at the end, but in reality you're making very little (or even a massive loss if you play 'as intended' in open public and your shipment gets destroyed).

 

As a result, I barely touched my MC until the Nightclub came out, and then it was solely to set them up to supply the Nightclub. 

 

When Cayo came out and I realised that as a money grinder it absolutely buries everything that came before it, I shut down everything, even the Nightclub. It was like getting out of prison. Now I could enjoy being in my CEO/MC without worrying how long I'd been in-session or if a raid was coming. I still can hardly believe that Cayo Perico was allowed to exist by Der Fuhrer Zelnick, since it undoes years of progressive monetization. 

 

Oh, and in regards to the Pac Standard payout, historically bank robberies make relatively little - $1.25M would be a dream score. Although, to get back on topic, one must wonder why there are no laundering fees for any of the OG heists or Bunker/MC sales, but there are for DCH/Nightclub/Cayo. 

[Xiled]

2 hours ago, God-eater said:

When Cayo came out and I realised that as a money grinder it absolutely buries everything that came before it, I shut down everything, even the Nightclub. It was like getting out of prison. Now I could enjoy being in my CEO/MC without worrying how long I'd been in-session or if a raid was coming. I still can hardly believe that Cayo Perico was allowed to exist by Der Fuhrer Zelnick, since it undoes years of progressive monetization. 

 

Oh, and in regards to the Pac Standard payout, historically bank robberies make relatively little - $1.25M would be a dream score. Although, to get back on topic, one must wonder why there are no laundering fees for any of the OG heists or Bunker/MC sales, but there are for DCH/Nightclub/Cayo. 

 

Well the game is also nearly a decade old and they want people playing as long as possible. They still have 2 updates a year to go for a few more years still.  I'm thinking they separate them so when we do finally get an update you may have to purchase fake money to spend on it. The prices of vehicles increased soon after when we get a new set of missions, I mean "heists". Remember it cost nearly $1 million to fully upgrade a lowrider when that dlc released.

 

 

[Kiethblacklion]

The Youga van from the San Andreas Auto website is only $16,000 - however you can steal one off the street and keep it.

The Youga Classic from San Andreas Auto/Benny's is $195,00.

 

These two vehicles do not have extreme differences in designs, yet only the expensive one can be modified at Benny's. Why? By all logic, Benny should be able to modify the Youga just like he can with the Youga Classic. 

[Gunbladelad]

Rockstar Logic - Want to use your airbase hanger during the Merryweather Business Battle up there?  Prepare for an instant wanted level and a spawn where no planes can possibly take off rather than in front of your hanger...

[Sam2150AD]

Kosatka (a high tech full size naval submarine) - base price $2.2m 

Krieger (A Supercar) - $2.9m

 

There you go.

[Coleco]

When you approach the mission location in Robbery In Progress, the police suddenly start attacking you and completely ignore the masked, armed dudes who have just shot up a bank, murdered its security guards, stolen actual gold from the vault and are still holding civilian hostages inside.

 

 

 

So of course, I take that personally

 

 

[MaddenedGhost]

I have just gotten the Benny's cutscene on PC for the first time and this smart game has told me "we'll get you a lowrider in no time" while I was in there with my Nero.

I know it's because the Nero was released after but I still found it funny.

[RyuNova]

On 6/22/2021 at 1:34 PM, Sam2150AD said:

Kosatka (a high tech full size naval submarine) - base price $2.2m 

 

 

Not to be a dick, but I am pretty sure we are only renting the Kosatka and Pavels assistance. The moment we die or get arrested he would disappear with his Submarine.

 

It's simply a retaining fee.

[MaddenedGhost]

On 6/10/2021 at 3:18 AM, Gaffa said:

 

You're really right, and it's almost alarming. I guess we're supposed to forgive the last update, the Cayo Perico Heist DLC as it was worked on from home by people all over the place, but we can only really go so far with the forgiveness. 

Back in 2017 we had the Gunrunning DLC update, and I've been doing a few supply missions for that on a new character. 
It crossed my mind that there's one mission where you have to go deep into Humane Labs to get a Railgun which is your supplies - upon picking that Railgun up, the global timer starts counting down to warn you you're about to show on the map for all players - but yet you've still got to fight your way to the exit and get out... 

Yet, on another supply mission for the Bunker you have to go into the abandoned mine. On that mission, the global timer only starts once you've exited the mine, after having navigated your way out. 

What? 

There's also the obvious one with the chairs... some will say press right on the d-pad to access the computer or whatever, some will say press A. Standing up from these computers / chairs is another one, "is it the B button or do I have to press D-pad right" because again there's just no consistency?

When leaving your CEO Office normally, you're given a few options in a Native UI menu system to choose whether you want to leave to the roof or ground or via personal vehicle, etc. 
Yet, on the prep mission where we steal weapons for the Cayo Perico heist, we have some "press left to exit on the roof, press right to exit on the ground" thing. 
Go figure. 

Some Gunrunning unlocks are one big Rockstar Logic in themselves.

 

You are stealing guns and delivering them back to your bunker so you unlock the ability to buy certain items from the internet browser.

 

What?

Edited June 30, 2021 by The_Ghost

[JON22]

I was bored. You can't exactly lift it but you can push it with the dozer. Might try and get it into the city when I can be bothered.

 

[Gaffa]

Rockstar should never have changed the Pegasus system - back in the day, you could glide down to the ground in an aircraft which had lost all of its health whilst still being able to call out another one. 
Nowadays, you can't do that because the player is literally kicked out of the Pegasus vehicle and it's something you have no control over... oh and when said vehicle blows up from hitting the ground when you didn't want to jump out of it, you get a wanted level because of the explosion / damaging a vehicle / whatever the actual reasoning is for the wanted level. 

- 

If you don't own a Penthouse at the DC&R, when you enter the Casino, you're given the option of where you want to go... so why does this menu even pop up if the player doesn't own a Penthouse - they should be sent straight into the Casino. 

 

Right... okay...

 

When setting up for the Cayo Perico Heist, if your target is the Bearer Bonds, you need to go to the Penthouse Suites in the DC&R. But guess what - when you go to the Casino on this mission, the menu for "Casino" or "Penthouse" doesn't pop up like it would do if you were entering the Casino normally off-mission, and then you're required to walk a few steps to the elevator which then brings you to the Penthouse Suites. 

Sorry what? 
(I'm aware entering the DC&R from the rooftop skips the walk to the elevator but still). 

[ilovefreebird]

On 7/13/2021 at 12:16 PM, Gaffa said:

Rockstar should never have changed the Pegasus system - back in the day, you could glide down to the ground in an aircraft which had lost all of its health whilst still being able to call out another one. 
Nowadays, you can't do that because the player is literally kicked out of the Pegasus vehicle and it's something you have no control over... oh and when said vehicle blows up from hitting the ground when you didn't want to jump out of it, you get a wanted level because of the explosion / damaging a vehicle / whatever the actual reasoning is for the wanted level. 

 

While that may be frustrating, remember one of the things that used to be annoying but has since been changed: when you originally had an active Pegasus vehicle, you could not call another until the original was destroyed. This was a big hassle if you were far away because it was so much slower to traverse the map to blow up your aircraft back then.

[Gaffa]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:15 PM, ilovefreebird said:

 

While that may be frustrating, remember one of the things that used to be annoying but has since been changed: when you originally had an active Pegasus vehicle, you could not call another until the original was destroyed. This was a big hassle if you were far away because it was so much slower to traverse the map to blow up your aircraft back then.

 

That may have been the case - but there was a time (I'm sure? maybe I'm wrong) when you could call another Pegasus Vehicle and then use the Pegasus Vehicle you were already in, to travel to your new one. 
As soon as you exited the old one, it would despawn that vehicle so you wouldn't have two active vehicles at the same time. 

 

Maybe I'm misremembering which is common for me these days. 

[Xiled]

On 7/13/2021 at 5:27 PM, Gaffa said:

 

That may have been the case - but there was a time (I'm sure? maybe I'm wrong) when you could call another Pegasus Vehicle and then use the Pegasus Vehicle you were already in, to travel to your new one. 
As soon as you exited the old one, it would despawn that vehicle so you wouldn't have two active vehicles at the same time. 

 

Maybe I'm misremembering which is common for me these days. 

I believe when you stopped moving completely than it kicked you out of it. 

There was also a time where if you were not using a peguasus vehicle for a few minutes it would despawn on its own like it was a not in use timer or something. 

 

Just wish they would remove the stupid 1 star when you jump out of your aircraft and the gets destroyed somewhere on the ground. Usually I will just fly into the ground close to where I wanna be and blow up. Its quicker than dealing with the stupid phone call that takes several seconds. 

 

Than I know with the vip vehicles spawn we accidentally found a teleport glitch with it years ago. Unfortunately was patched a long time ago and has a radius if your in it wont let you request it... Since unless its destroyed, the game will teleport the already spawned/damaged one to you. 

[Gaffa]

On 7/14/2021 at 3:54 AM, Xiled said:

I believe when you stopped moving completely than it kicked you out of it. 

There was also a time where if you were not using a peguasus vehicle for a few minutes it would despawn on its own like it was a not in use timer or something. 

 

Just wish they would remove the stupid 1 star when you jump out of your aircraft and the gets destroyed somewhere on the ground. Usually I will just fly into the ground close to where I wanna be and blow up. Its quicker than dealing with the stupid phone call that takes several seconds. 

 

Than I know with the vip vehicles spawn we accidentally found a teleport glitch with it years ago. Unfortunately was patched a long time ago and has a radius if your in it wont let you request it... Since unless its destroyed, the game will teleport the already spawned/damaged one to you. 

Ahh yeah that was probably the case - yeah I seem to recall the Pegasus system in a nutshell undergoing a few changes here and there over the years. 
Maybe one day we can dream of having multiple vehicles active at one time (a missed opportunity with the Slamtruck really, had that been configured to allow a vehicle to be secured on the back rather than fall off). 

And yeah, agreed with that other stuff. Ahh well! 

[suicidal_banana]

My alt char has the nightclub at the docks, if i request any vehicle while there it will spawn on one of the nearby docks (merryweather one) instead, its f-in annoying af but okay i've learned to accept this as "worst of rockstar logic" a while ago.

So the other day i was collecting crates from the aircraft carrier, got there by driving my car to the boats & taking one up there, i delivered a few crates to my nightclub going back-n-forth with a jet, timer is coming to an end so instead of trying to keep the jet i parachute to deliver the last crate, i spawn back outside and am just looking around deciding what road vehicle to steal to get back into town, BB event ends, my personal vehicle spawns right next to the nightclub...