Israeli Troops kill unarmed teenagers during demonstration

[daboy042188]

I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

Firstly, Phil, I really don't like the slant of your opening post--you suggest that the video is utterly infallible but this is extremely uncertain. The IDF is averse to killing civilians--not only is such action deplored by the Torah, it is denounced by the ethos of the IDF, which is enunciated at around the 4:50 mark of the second video on this page:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22892783

 

(Video is an interview with a learned historian)

 

I'm not an expert on video editing and such, so I can't speak with certainty of the validity of this video. Needless to say, if those boys died, then certainly this is a tragedy (the death of innocence is an aberration, make no mistake). However, even if the boys were killed (I'm not saying "yes" or "no" to this), the circumstances of the event are still largely unknown.

 

 

I mean no disrespect, but I find it unsettling that Palikari was attacked from all sides when he posted a topic in similar vein to this regarding an incident at Temple Mount.

also the israelis aren't stupid enough to shoot kids willy-nilly. they've been dealing with this sh*t for 60 years, shooting unarmed kids is a rookie move

[Mr. House]

if you take a rubber bullet to the dome that can totally kill you. it's still a piece of hard plastic moving the speed of sound. sh*t if you have a weak heart and take one to the chest that can kill you.

 

in general though the palestinians have a track history of doctoring video to make the israelis look like monsters, also i have to imagine the israeli army trains their soldiers not to shoot unarmed kids (although if the rocks are sizeable enough you're TOTALLY allowed to shoot the thrower under geneva rules) and i doubt that this would be a product of anti-arabic bias on the part of jewish soldiers simply because unless things have changed since i was last there the israelis like to send in israeli arab soldiers into the west bank and gaza for this kind of stuff (mostly cause they speak arabic which not all israeli jews do)

Well if you don't believe the Palestinian 'doctored' videos, we could always refer to the independent reports and video evidence from western news organisations, journalists and aid workers of Israel shelling schools and hospitals or shooting kids in the back..

[bread]

 

if you take a rubber bullet to the dome that can totally kill you. it's still a piece of hard plastic moving the speed of sound. sh*t if you have a weak heart and take one to the chest that can kill you.

 

in general though the palestinians have a track history of doctoring video to make the israelis look like monsters, also i have to imagine the israeli army trains their soldiers not to shoot unarmed kids (although if the rocks are sizeable enough you're TOTALLY allowed to shoot the thrower under geneva rules) and i doubt that this would be a product of anti-arabic bias on the part of jewish soldiers simply because unless things have changed since i was last there the israelis like to send in israeli arab soldiers into the west bank and gaza for this kind of stuff (mostly cause they speak arabic which not all israeli jews do)

Well if you don't believe the Palestinian 'doctored' videos, we could always refer to the independent reports and video evidence from western news organisations, journalists and aid workers of Israel shelling schools and hospitals or shooting kids in the back..

Honestly, I wouldn't bother with him.

[ClaudeSpeed1911]

Strange, this happens every week in my country but this in paticualer gets noticed.

[sivispacem]

I knew this topic was liable to be troll bait but given that it had been relatively civil so far I've just hidden the last couple of posts. JLN22 bought himself a week's ban for his comments.

 

The next person making a discriminatory, anti-Semitic, racist, Islamophobic or otherwise derogatory comment in this thread gets banned permanently.

[make total destroy]

CNN apparently caught the shootings on film: http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/05/22/pkg-watson-4a-west-bank-teens-shot.cnn

 

I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

Firstly, Phil, I really don't like the slant of your opening post--you suggest that the video is utterly infallible but this is extremely uncertain. The IDF is averse to killing civilians--not only is such action deplored by the Torah, it is denounced by the ethos of the IDF, which is enunciated at around the 4:50 mark of the second video on this page:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22892783

 

(Video is an interview with a learned historian)

 

I'm not an expert on video editing and such, so I can't speak with certainty of the validity of this video. Needless to say, if those boys died, then certainly this is a tragedy (the death of innocence is an aberration, make no mistake). However, even if the boys were killed (I'm not saying "yes" or "no" to this), the circumstances of the event are still largely unknown.

 

 

I mean no disrespect, but I find it unsettling that Palikari was attacked from all sides when he posted a topic in similar vein to this regarding an incident at Temple Mount.

also the israelis aren't stupid enough to shoot kids willy-nilly. they've been dealing with this sh*t for 60 years, shooting unarmed kids is a rookie move

 

It's not a matter of being 'stupid', it's a matter of knowing accountability is practically non-existent. I'm sure if this is investigated, it will be investigated by the Military Police Corps. of the Israeli Defensive Force, and the soldiers involved will likely be cleared of wrong-doing. Internal investigations conducted by military or police typically end that way.

[daboy042188]

They tend not to get caught on video shooting kids in the back so idk what that's referring to offhand but as for shelling schools it's important to remember that while that's f*cked up (and it is) perhaps that's what happens when you launch rockets from the playgrounds. Also Israelis aim for people shooting rockets, hamas aims for pizza parlors and public buses

[make total destroy]

They tend not to get caught on video shooting kids in the back so idk what that's referring to offhand

One doesn't really have to look very far to find examples of what I'm talking about, as literally every state on Earth is maintained by, and would vanish quickly without violence. This includes, but is not limited to, shooting unarmed protestors. Literally the same sh*t happened in Turkey the other day--a man was shot in the head by police during a protest he was not even apart of. I'm confident that--much like in this case--no one will be held accountable, let alone prosecuted for any crime.

 

Someone earlier mentioned the Kent State Massacre. Do you know how many of those National Guardsmen were convicted of a crime?

Edited May 23, 2014 by ShootPeopleNotDope

[Melech]

UPDATE!

 

An expert in Channel 2 analyzed the footage of the shootings released by CNN.

 

Here's the link: http://www.mako.co.il/news-military/security/Article-50bafcbe6f42641004.htm?sCh=3d385dd2dd5d4110&pId=1898243326

 

And here's the analysis video with English subtitles:

 

 

 

The CNN footage actually shows without a doubt that the border police bullet that was shot at the time Nawarah fell came from a gun equipped with the extension used to fire rubber bullets. (The bullet that Nawarah's father says he found in the backpack simply could not have killed him, as the expert in the video notes - a bullet that hits a target does not look like that.). Rubber coated bullets used in Israel are blunt cylinders. They cannot penetrate skin unless fired from very close range.

 

The Border Police officers were carrying M16 weapons. This is an M16:

 

 

And this is an M16 with the attachment for rubber bullets:

 

 

If you watch the CNN footage and Channel's 2 analysis video, you will clearly see that the M16 was equiped with a rubber bullet attachment. According to the Army, the soldiers did not use real ammunition, and it has been proven that they didn't.

 

My opinion is that this is just another Pallywood farce to make Israel look bad.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Palikari

[Spaghetti Cat]

One of the things that impresses me about the video above, if correct, is how it counters point-by-point the propaganda narrative directed at Israel. A counter-narrative if you will. I wish we were as good as this over here, instead of "hey look, cat attacks dog, saves kid awww" type news. We would do a lot better with our cultural might instead of our military might in this long war against terror.

 

Anyways, sorry to derail the topic, back to the bickering...

[bread]

 

 

One of the things that impresses me about the video above, if correct, is how it counters point-by-point the propaganda narrative directed at Israel. A counter-narrative if you will. I wish we were as good as this over here, instead of "hey look, cat attacks dog, saves kid awww" type news. We would do a lot better with our cultural might instead of our military might in this long war against terror.

That's CNN for you. They love to cover trifling news stories as in-depth as possible but when it comes to conflicts within other countries - especially Israel - that's when they take an opinionated, biased approach to the topic at hand. On top of that they can't even get their facts straight most of the time. It's pathetic.

 

 

 

Strange, this happens every week in my country but this in paticualer gets noticed.

Not really that strange to be honest. The media loves Israel and it's been like that for a while. But when it comes to talks of annexing the West Bank that without a doubt is still being covered.

 

 

Sorry for the off-topic rant, by the way.

[universetwisters]

Someone earlier mentioned the Kent State Massacre. Do you know how many of those National Guardsmen were convicted of a crime?

 

According to this here, the guardsmen pleaded self defense. In 1974, a judge dismissed the case due to the prosecution's defense being weak.

[I cucked Alex Jones]

And so the endless cycle of violence continues.

 

Meanwhile, in the US, Kerry gets flak for suggesting a two state solution.

[Melech]

And so the endless cycle of violence continues.

 

Meanwhile, in the US, Kerry gets flak for suggesting a two state solution.

A two-state solution is the only possible solution, and the solution most Israelis support.

 

No, Kerry gets flak for asking Israel to release 104 terrorists from prison so the Palestinians will say yes to start negotiating; and for blaming Israel for the failure of the "peace talks" when Israel was not to blame, but the Palestinian Authority for the unity pact with Hamas, a terror organization very similar to Al-Qaeda whose goal is the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people, and they are fighting for it. Kerry doesn't care about Israel, he just wants a Nobel Peace Prize.

 

As Golda Meir (Z"L) said: "There will be peace when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us". She was indeed right!

Edited May 23, 2014 by Palikari

[I cucked Alex Jones]

 

And so the endless cycle of violence continues.

 

Meanwhile, in the US, Kerry gets flak for suggesting a two state solution.

A two-state solution is the only possible solution, and the solution most Israelis support.

 

No, Kerry gets flak for asking Israel to release 104 terrorists from prison so the Palestinians will say yes to start negotiating; and for blaming Israel for the failure of the "peace talks" when Israel was not to blame.

 

As Golda Meir (Z"L) said: "There will be peace when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us". She was indeed right!

 

Maybe you're not up to date with US news, but a couple weeks ago in some private peace meeting or something like that, Kerry was recorded saying that Israel might become a apartheid state or Jewish minority if a two state solution wasn't worked out. Then Ted Cruz hilariously called for him to resign as SoS, and later went on saying how Israel couldn't survive if a Palestinian nation was recognized.

[Melech]

Maybe you're not up to date with US news, but a couple weeks ago in some private peace meeting or something like that, Kerry was recorded saying that Israel might become a apartheid state or Jewish minority if a two state solution wasn't worked out. Then Ted Cruz hilariously called for him to resign as SoS, and later went on saying how Israel couldn't survive if a Palestinian nation was recognized.

Yes, I remember when he said so. He was criticized for saying Israel would become an apartheid state, not for suggesting a two-state solution. The two-state solution has been the position of all US administrations and is the position of the Israeli government.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Palikari

[make total destroy]

 

Someone earlier mentioned the Kent State Massacre. Do you know how many of those National Guardsmen were convicted of a crime?

 

According to this here, the guardsmen pleaded self defense. In 1974, a judge dismissed the case due to the prosecution's defense being weak.

 

Exactly the point.

[Melech]

CNN and two CCTV videos, synchronized, of the incident show (again) that the shot that coincided with the youth's falling down came from a gun with a rubber bullet attachment. (CNN implied it was the second shot, but it was the first.)

 

 

[Clem Fandango]

Lol he has a "Righteous Slaughter" signature. Why even play GTA if all the jokes go completely over your head?

[Melech]

Lol he has a "Righteous Slaughter" signature.

Yeah! It's a great signature, isn't it? Righteous Slaughter would be a great video game.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Palikari

[PedroJiboiaBr]

Tell me which army wouldnt do that ahn?

 

Lol he has a "Righteous Slaughter" signature.

Yeah! It's a great signature, isn't it? Righteous Slaughter would be a great video game.

 

A psycho parody of call of duty

[universetwisters]

Tell me which army wouldnt do that ahn?

 

Lol he has a "Righteous Slaughter" signature.

Yeah! It's a great signature, isn't it? Righteous Slaughter would be a great video game.

 

A psycho parody of call of duty

 

I literally cannot tell the difference between those new Call of Duty games and that 30 second clip of Righteous Slaughter from GTA 5. The similarities are damning.

[RoadRunner71]

 

Tell me which army wouldnt do that ahn?

 

 

Lol he has a "Righteous Slaughter" signature.

 

Yeah! It's a great signature, isn't it? Righteous Slaughter would be a great video game.

 

A psycho parody of call of duty

 

I literally cannot tell the difference between those new Call of Duty games and that 30 second clip of Righteous Slaughter from GTA 5. The similarities are damning.

Just a lot less 12 yo kids yelling in the mic that they slept with your mother in Righteous Slaughter. Edited May 28, 2014 by RoadRunner71

[PedroJiboiaBr]

 

 

Tell me which army wouldnt do that ahn?

 

Lol he has a "Righteous Slaughter" signature.

Yeah! It's a great signature, isn't it? Righteous Slaughter would be a great video game.

A psycho parody of call of duty

I literally cannot tell the difference between those new Call of Duty games and that 30 second clip of Righteous Slaughter from GTA 5. The similarities are damning.

Just a lot less 12 yo kids yelling in the mic that they slept with your mother in Righteous Slaughter.

 

Glad to have almost same age and not be like that

[LeVelocar]

A two state solution would only be valid if both parties had a claim to the land. Rolling up after WWII ended and going "bagsies!" doesn't count. The shades of lebenstraum are disturbing.

 

Quite frankly I think they should just end this sick display and accept any citizenship that Palestine offers.

[daboy042188]

a valid claim like a bill of sale from the ottomans? or like the controlling party at the time (the british) ceding control? or a mandate from the United Nations? or spoils of conquest?

would those be considered a valid claim? because if not (assuming you're american and in boswash, which is 1 in 5 americans) you'd best go find a nice iriqouis family to give your house to.

a two state solution will happen when both parties realize the other party ain't going anywhere and genocide isn't a practical option

[LeVelocar]

A bill of sale from one bunch of imperialists to another means nothing in any moral sense, and "spoils of conquest" is just handling stolen property.

 

A two state solution could be a workable if distasteful compromise. Unfortunately every time Palestinians offer them to come around their house and discuss it the Israelis keep bringing bulldozers. Sours the mood.

Edited May 31, 2014 by LeVelocar

[Josh]

A bill of sale from one bunch of imperialists to another means nothing in any moral sense

International politics isn't ever based on moral foundations unfortunately.

[Abel.]

A bill of sale from one bunch of imperialists to another means nothing in any moral sense

 

How about the fact that Jews tried to live peacefully in the Diaspora for millennia but suffered persecution wherever they turned and that Zionism represented a return to their ancestral land and an escape from persecution? Whenever people decry the legitimacy of Israel (which really shouldn't be under scrutiny), they deny the Jews--arguably the most historically beset people in the world--their right to a nation. The Jews have ancient, immutable ties to Eretz Israel whether you like it or not, and the state has defended itself from aggressors on countless occasions in recent history.

 

You speak of Israel souring peace efforts. Sure, building settlements is not conductive to peace, but actively celebrating the deaths of Jewish children, supporting a virulently antisemitic terrorist organisation which calls for the destruction of Israel root and stem and actively murders innocent Israelis is worse in my view.

 

Israel is certainly not morally perfect. Everyone in Israel remembers the Sabra and Shatila massacre (though Sharon didn't order the atrocity--no Jew would willingly permit the murder of so many innocents--we must concede that he possessed a degree of culpability), everyone remembers barbarous act committed by Baruch Goldstein. However, Israel does not look back on these events with any sort of fondness--Israel denounces the death of any civilians, regardless of their creed, this is what sets Israel apart from the terrorists who would destroy it.

 

You can complain about Israel's existence ad infinitum. Hell, you could run around the streets of Tel Aviv and complain about it and fear no reprimand due to the principles of free speech that Israel (and, in the middle east, only Israel) embraces, but that won't make the country disappear--it's survived far worse.

 

 

Israel wants peace, the moderate Arabs want peace, but sadly Israel's enemies just want to undermine and ultimately destroy Israel. If Hamas and their ilk laid down their arms, there would be peace, but if the sons of Israel laid down their arms, there would be no Israel. A poignant quote of Golda Meir's springs to mind:

 

 

 

Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us

Edited May 31, 2014 by elanman

[Melech]

[...] every time Palestinians offer them to come around their house and discuss it the Israelis keep bringing bulldozers. Sours the mood.

You only write demagogic defamatory trash.

 

It's the Palestinians who don't want to negotiate and don't accept Israel's right to exist. The Palestinian put preconditions to negotiate and Israel has to yield in order to start to negotiate. Those preconditions are crazy, such as releasing 104 Palestinian terrorists and murderers from Israel prisons. Israel has yielded. If Paleatnians wanted peace they would have yielded, but they haven't a single time. They only impose their conditions. Now the Palestinian Authority (that the West hilariously calls "moderate") has joined Hamas, an Islamist terrorist organization who's goal is the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jewish people. Would you call "moderate" and "peaceful" a government that joined Al Qaeda? Is this making peace? Officially, the Palestinians even refuse to accept the Jewish presence.

 

The Palestinians' goal is not peace, it's victory (i.e. the destruction of Israel). They have two discourses: the English peaceful and victimist (international media) and the Arabic, genocidal and anti-Semitic (Palestinian and Arab media). You can watch subtitled clips of Palestinian leaders saying what they really think on MEMRI and Palestinian Media Watch.

 

Most Palestinians are Islamic fanatics, and fanatics can never be satisfied. They can only be satisfied if you do whatever they want. They want the destruction of Israel and the Jews under the sea, and we won't give in to make them happy. They must learn to be tolerant and accept each other. Israel and Israelis have accepted the Arabs, even 21% of Israelis are Arabs and they enjoy full rights, although many of them are not loyal to their country. The Palestinians have made clear that they won't accept any Jew in a Palestinian state (from sea to sea, not the 1967 borders).

 

Bulldozers? 98% Palestinians live under the PA, so they don't see a f*cking bulldozer. The bulldozed homes are homes of terrorists who killed a lot of people (this is exactly what the British did in Northern Ireland) and illegally-built homes (Palestinian and Israeli homes).

 

Instead of writing such demagogic defamatory untrue trash, you should do some research. You've proved you've no idea about this conflict. But it's easier to write trash than doing some research, isn't it?

 

I will finish with a quote of Golda Meir Z"L: There will be peace when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

 

EDIT: I see the user above me posted the same great quote.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Palikari