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Wolfhuman

So what is the nationality of Niko?

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Jimbatron

The fact that Roman says "better than my Serbian" is enough to prove he is Serbian. A Croat would never say he speaks Serbian, but Croatian.

 

^ Ethnically Serbian, I would agree, I don't doubt that for a moment. However, there are plenty of countries in former Yugoslavia where he could have come from, and that's the bit where it's less certain. As said above, I doubt he is from Serbia itself, given his descriptions of the civil war. It's not impossible he could have been a Serbian born in Croatia as there was some fighting there if my memory serves correctly, but I think Bosnia or Kosovo sound much more likely. Niko's description of the children found dead in the church fits with the genocide that these two areas suffered.

 

One fairly innocuous remark that Roman makes in "It's your call" is "in the old days we were dodging bombs, not loan sharks." which could point to aerial bombardment. This would certainly fit with Kosovo, as the US got involved. I can't remember how much aerial warfare was prevalent in the other Yugoslavia conflicts.

Edited by Jimbatron

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Official General

 

The fact that Roman says "better than my Serbian" is enough to prove he is Serbian. A Croat would never say he speaks Serbian, but Croatian.

 

^ Ethnically Serbian, I would agree, I don't doubt that for a moment. However, there are plenty of countries in former Yugoslavia where he could have come from, and that's the bit where it's less certain. As said above, I doubt he is from Serbia itself, given his descriptions of the civil war. It's not impossible he could have been a Serbian born in Croatia as there was some fighting there if my memory serves correctly, but I think Bosnia or Kosovo sound much more likely. Niko's description of the children found dead in the church fits with the genocide that these two areas suffered.

 

One fairly innocuous remark that Roman makes in "It's your call" is "in the old days we were dodging bombs, not loan sharks." which could point to aerial bombardment. This would certainly fit with Kosovo, as the US got involved. I can't remember how much aerial warfare was prevalent in the other Yugoslavia conflicts.

 

 

@ Jimbatron

 

I feel you are reading to much into this, you're going into too much detail than necessary. I don't really think it matters whether he's ethnically Serbian and from Serbia itself or another nearby nation within that region. He's certainly from the former Yugoslavia region that includes Serbia, and he apparently speaks Serbian. All that matters is if you believe he is Serbian, which you do, I think you should just leave it at that.

 

Dan Houser said that they purposely did not specify Niko's nationality, because they wanted to leave it to open interpretation by the player, but all available evidence points to Niko being Serbian. So if you believe he's Serbian, there is really nothing else to it.

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MyDog

And you can't really take Niko's and Roman's descriptions of the war as indication of their nationality simply because R* didn't do that much research.

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Tycek

@Jimbatron

 

Don't forget about NATO air strikes conducted on Bosnian Serbs during the end of the Bosnian War in 1995.

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Jimbatron

 

 

The fact that Roman says "better than my Serbian" is enough to prove he is Serbian. A Croat would never say he speaks Serbian, but Croatian.

 

^ Ethnically Serbian, I would agree, I don't doubt that for a moment. However, there are plenty of countries in former Yugoslavia where he could have come from, and that's the bit where it's less certain. As said above, I doubt he is from Serbia itself, given his descriptions of the civil war. It's not impossible he could have been a Serbian born in Croatia as there was some fighting there if my memory serves correctly, but I think Bosnia or Kosovo sound much more likely. Niko's description of the children found dead in the church fits with the genocide that these two areas suffered.

 

One fairly innocuous remark that Roman makes in "It's your call" is "in the old days we were dodging bombs, not loan sharks." which could point to aerial bombardment. This would certainly fit with Kosovo, as the US got involved. I can't remember how much aerial warfare was prevalent in the other Yugoslavia conflicts.

 

 

@ Jimbatron

 

I feel you are reading to much into this, you're going into too much detail than necessary. I don't really think it matters whether he's ethnically Serbian and from Serbia itself or another nearby nation within that region. He's certainly from the former Yugoslavia region that includes Serbia, and he apparently speaks Serbian. All that matters is if you believe he is Serbian, which you do, I think you should just leave it at that.

 

Dan Houser said that they purposely did not specify Niko's nationality, because they wanted to leave it to open interpretation by the player, but all available evidence points to Niko being Serbian. So if you believe he's Serbian, there is really nothing else to it.

 

 

Depends on how you look at it. It doesn't really matter of course, but I just find it interesting to speculate which part of Yugoslavia he might have be from. There might not be a definitive answer, but there are plenty of hints, which makes it something that a case can be built for. If it was clear cut, this thread would just be question, answer, and end.

 

 

@Jimbatron

 

Don't forget about NATO air strikes conducted on Bosnian Serbs during the end of the Bosnian War in 1995.

 

Must confess, I was less aware of the specifics due to being early teens when the Bosnian war happened. My memory of Nato's involvement was less clear in my mind than Kosovo (the latter I distinctly remember the news flash with Clinton saying the USA were going to war) . Bosnia certainly could fit with the Roman's description of dodging bombs and the bar being razed to the ground - it certainly sounds like airstrike scenarios.

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WandererNiko

@Jimbatron, I agree with you, if we take a closer look to Serbian language, we can appreciate that this language is spoken in many countries which were formerly Yugoslavia, be it a minority or an official language. I can remember that Niko once talked about his friends, when they got murdered due to an ambush, and he said "We were all boys from the village...". What about if Niko and Roman were born in a village in, for example, Montenegro? or in Bosnia & Herzegovina? And what about if the main language in that village was Serbian? It can be a possibility, due to the fact that a minority in those countries speak Serbian. I know that I'm going way too far with this, but hey, we can all imagine and discuss scenarios, no one was harmed because of that!

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MaddenSixx

I also think he is Serbian but they didn't portray the accent right. I know he isn't Russian because I believe he never had anything nice to say about the Russians but the game never specifically stated what his nationality was.

 

In the gta wiki pages it says that he is: "Serbian''. However this is 100% false. A Serbian contact of mine, confirmed this. He said that it sounded more like russian or so. He could understand a few words tho. When Niko runs from the police at times he say: "lepo zemlja'', which means:"what a nice land''.

 

Is it ever said what his real nationality is?

 

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xMaxinatorx

I'm half croatian myself but highly doubt that he's from Croatia. Would be awesome though.

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GameHacker666

Niko's Serbian in the game is quite limited and I didn't like how he spoke in English while confronting Darko in mission "That Special Someone". The cutscene would be infinitely better if they had spoken in Serbian the entire time. It makes no sense that a junkie like Darko would know how to speak English fluently and that he would talk in English with someone that grew up in the same country along with him.

Edited by GameHacker666

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Queen Elizabeth II

If not Serbian, then Bosnian (ugly war crimes). No offense but I'd like him better to be from Serbia..

Edited by Queen Elizabeth II

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wiizardii

He is Serbian, although at R*s part it may have been an over sight at what Niko said (as it may not have been serbian he spoke) but he is definently from Serbia

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turbocharger

In the following text, I'll analyse this quote:

"After you walk into a village, and you see fifty children, all sitting neatly in a row against the church wall, each with their throats cut and their hands chopped off, you realize the creature that could do this doesn't have a soul."

 

 

Before that, it's important to see the background, so let's get to it.

 

There is no doubt that Niko speaks Serbian language. And considering the 'dodging bombs' thing (NATO bombing in 1995 as someone mentioned before), the word is probably about the Bosnian war. Of course, I may not be right, but let's put it that way.

Term 'Bosnian war' or civil war is inaccurate as the things that happened about 20 years ago are nowhere about it, whereas the term 'aggression on Bosnia and Herzegovina' is much more likely to fit things.

 

100 to 150 years ago, 200 tops, some great minds came to Bosnia and started separating people by religion into nations. All the time before that, people no matter what their religion is, considered themselves Bosniaks, inhabitants of country named Bosnia. However, century or two ago, people of Bosnia were separated into three nations – Orthodox all of sudden became Serbs, even though they have absolutely no relation to Serbia, and Catholics became Croats, same case. Muslims are the only ones who 'stayed' Bosniaks, however the 1000 years old name 'Bosniak' was completely forced out of use by Austria-Hungary and later communists and it stayed so for next 100 years. Bosniaks returned their national identity in 1993. I'm saying this so you know where from are the 3 constitutive nations in a single country.

 

Back to aggression. It started in 1992, after Bosnia seceded itself from Yugoslavia. Serbian 'heroes' – Chetniks intended to completely eradicate Bosniaks and everyone else whose nationality is not Serbian. So Croats were victims, too, but Bosniaks were main targets. In other words, it was nothing but ethnic cleansing. 'Bosnian Serbs' were the aggressors, but Serbia and Montenegro also took part. My mother witnessed dozens of trucks full of Chetniks from previously mentioned countries going through Višegrad while viciously insulting local Bosniak people. In those three years, such abhorrent, awful, disgusting, monstrous events happened all over Bosnia. In the villages where people (in this case implying Bosniaks and Serbs) lived together peacefully, all of sudden, our dear neighbors came with guns and started beastly disparaging, raping and brutally murdering Bosniaks. The thing is, Serbs were armed to teeth with guns and heavy artillery from JNA/YPA (Yugoslav People's Army) which stayed in Serbia after Yugoslavia collapsed. Murdering innocent, harmless, weaponless people. That's the bravery and heroism of Chetniks, Serbia's pride.

 

Six days ago was 19 years from Srebrenica massacre, as shown in my signature. In a single day, more than 8 thousands of people were beastly murdered. 8,372 people were buried for now, and the number is still rising, as there are lots of victims whose remains are being searched for.

 

On 11th July, 19 years ago, a Bosniak woman gave a birth to a male child. As she held the baby in hands, a Chetnik walked up to her and told her to put the baby down. She did so. Chetnik then proceeded to step on baby's head and neck, forcing the guts out. The baby didn't even have a name.

 

19 years ago, a nine year old girl was raped in front of her family.

 

19 years ago, many Bosniak boys were beastly slaughtered. Their parents were forced to watch the scene.

 

3 continuous years of constant events like this. Things you can't even imagine in your wildest dreams, cooking a man alive on a skewer, setting a house on fire with dozens of civilians inside. Most awful, abhorrent, mind tearing, scariest things. It happened here, about 20 years ago, in intention to eradicate Bosnian language, Bosnia and Bosniaks, a nation more than 1000 years old, three times older than America, in the centre of Europe. It happened. Nobody reacted.

 

There were also attacks from the Croatian side, most notably in 1993, when the Old Bridge in Mostar was destructed, after it stood there for 427 years. It was reconstructed in 2004. Good people constructed a 'new old bridge'.

 

As a result of those events, Bosnia now consists of two entities – Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Republika Srpska, though the latter should be called Republika Genocidna. Entity formed on so much pain, blood, viciousness, fear, terror, horror. The worst of all, hatred is still present and Serbs disrespect and disparage innocent Bosniak victims of agression, and also deny taking responsibility for their acts. Six days ago came out a magazine or something with a caption on front page that says „Thank you general for Srebrenica“, referring to Ratko Mladić, a human turd that is most responsible for events from 19 years ago. Disgusting.

So, the war I'm talking about is aggression on Bosnia and Herzegovina.

 

Since we have the background, back to the quote:

 

"After you walk into a village, and you see fifty children, all sitting neatly in a row against the church wall, each with their throats cut and their hands chopped off, you realize the creature that could do this doesn't have a soul."

 

 

This quote may be controversial. I'll explain. From my point of view, there are two options:

First option: Niko fought on Bosniak side, defending Bosnia and Herzegovina. This is not unusual, since Bosniaks aren't the only ones who defended Bosnia. There were good people, Serbs and Croats who wanted the same thing as Bosniaks – peace. So, aside from Muslims, many Orthodox and Catholics actually gave their lives for this country, too, so don't get me wrong. This is very important. The vivid description in the quote clearly represents a labour of Chetniks, beastly murder of fifty children. Niko is ashamed by the soulless creatures who call themselves Serbs for committing such vicious and beastly crime.

 

And the second option, which is controversial is: Niko is Chetnik, and the soulless creatures he talks about are actually the victims of the war – Bosniaks. So basically in this case, Rockstar is stretching the truth and revolving the aggressor-victim roles, portraying Serbs or Chetniks as helpless victims and Bosniaks (who were actually the victims) as the ones who went around and killed innocents, raped women and killed children. Of course, R* was smart enough and didn't specify the details. However, the quote mentions a church, not a mosque (what a surprise, huh?), so this option is more likely.

The 'dodging bombs' thing is also twofold and could mean dodging bombs thrown by Chetniks on innocents, putting Niko on the good side, and could also mean the NATO bombing Chetniks in 1995, which would put Niko and Roman on the other, bad side.

This thing is veery fragile and itchy and I think it would have been better if Rockstar didn't even touch it. But hey, Poland (City Interactive) went even further by making a game Sniper: Ghost Warrior 2, a game set in Sarajevo while it was under the siege. Tittle says it all. The time and place the game is set in is controversial itself, and brings nothing good to those who actually survived that hell. And what happens when someone messes with the victims that fell during attack on WTC? Those get punished, jailed, tagged. And look at the numbers – 246 WTC victims and 14, 000 victims that fell during the siege in Sarajevo + refugees. And still nothing.

 

 

My mother lost two brothers and father during the aggression. They all fell as warriors. Their remains still haven't been found.

 

My father fought aggressors and was wounded. No vital organs or limbs were harmed, but he has a huge scar on his left shoulder. And it looks badass. He got highest military recognition – Zlatni ljiljan (Golden Lily).

 

NwYPy5u.jpg

 

That's a real soldier, a real hero. Not those americans who go to Middle East protected like white deers in Canada and armed to teeth killing innocents and helpless under the excuse that those are terrorists. And when they come back home, they're welcomed as superheroes. If being a victim means being a terrorist, then Bosniaks were terrorists 20 years ago, too.

 

This is a very sensitive and nauseating topic indeed, but since it's open, things need to be put in order.

Edited by Turbocharged Prelude

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Who-Penny

idk why but i get very pissed off when people claim that he's russian and i really don't know where do they get that idea from. he's obviously from the former yugoslavia let it be bosnia, serbia or croatia. but he isn't russian.

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Mr_Leone

That was one of the best posts I've ever read Turbo. Thank you for that.

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