...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 1)

[JOSEPH X]

Lol @ Arsenal trying to pass the ball into the net when it's easier to score.

 

Let's see what Arsene has to say about this. Probs the ref's fault.

[flitcroft101]

why does he still have a job? this is the biggest joke in epl history

[Josh]

Wenger? Because everyone is too scared to sack him at the moment. He's bred a team of bottlers in recent years and I can't see them winning anything under his charge right now. Although perhaps if he was to splash the cash a bit and buy: Darren Bent; Shay Given and a decent centre-back like Chiellini or Kjaer my opinion would probably change. Although I can't see that happening because, simply put, he's a stubborn bastard and I can't see him changing his ways...

[cactus.]

why does he still have a job? this is the biggest joke in epl history

Tenure. Without Wenger Arsenal would be lost.

 

[SIKKS66]

Can't help that's there's no united boardroom either. Up until very recently there were about 6 voices on the board rather than one. Arsene can say he's done more to build the club than any of the board; the same can't be said for the Chelsea managers under Abramovich.

 

Edit: Also, does this defeat now mean Nani is 1,600 times more intelligent than Wenger?

Edited April 24, 2011 by SIKKS66

[Sean_R_LFC]

Can't help that's there's no united boardroom either. Up until very recently there were about 6 voices on the board rather than one. Arsene can say he's done more to build the club than any of the board; the same can't be said for the Chelsea managers under Abramovich.

 

Edit: Also, does this defeat now mean Nani is 1,600 times more intelligent than Wenger?

Absolutely hate that man

[Vercetti27]

why does he still have a job? this is the biggest joke in epl history

Tenure. Without Wenger Arsenal would be lost.

arsenal existed before wenger you know . see "george graham, "herbert chapman, "david danskin", "bruce rioch" etc

[cactus.]

why does he still have a job? this is the biggest joke in epl history

Tenure. Without Wenger Arsenal would be lost.

arsenal existed before wenger you know . see "george graham, "herbert chapman, "david danskin", "bruce rioch" etc

Brilliant retort, f*ckface!

 

Football fans can be so damn fickle sometimes, which ultimately makes them stupid. So Arsenal haven't won a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005 and that's enough of a reason to fire Arsene Wenger? I understand such a move for them would practically be fashionable in today's football climate because everybody is spending big and everyone is trying to measure success by trophy count. Yes, trophies are important and, to a degree, are in fact a reasonable measure of success, but they're not everything.

 

Arsenal's situation over the last six seasons has been anything but a dire one. Despite not having won a trophy during this spell, at least they have been competing for them! If I were an Arsenal fan, that would be enough for me to at least be satisfied knowing that we are in contention for trophies, which can't be said for a lot of other big clubs (e.g. Liverpool). I can sympathise with Arsenal fans' frustration with Wenger in the way they tend to bottle their lead at the top of the table and whatnot, hell yeah I'd be pissed off. But to want to oust the guy who has been leading Arsenal to the summit of many major competitions is just plain daft in my book. Let's see just how terrible Arsenal have been over the past six years:

 

• 2006 - Champions League Final

• 2007 League Cup Final

• 2008, Premier League 3rd place.

• 2008 Champions League quarter finals

• 2009 FA Cup semi-finals

• 2009 Champions League semi-finals

• 2010 Premier League 3rd place, if i remember correctly, they were in 1st place around March, only to blow it...

• 2010 Champions League quaters, losing to an insanely good Barca side.

• 2011 League Cup final

• 2011 likely 3rd place Premier League

 

Mind you, the last couple seasons finishing 3rd in the league they were, for the most part, in pole position to actually win the league, only bottling it late on in the campaign. Sad and frustrating indeed, but it could have been worse if you catch my drift. (Y'know, they were comfortably qualifying for the Champions League each season while giving it a right go for the title and other cups. Not bad I'd say.)

 

Point is:

 

Arsenal are clearly on the brink of either finally breaking through and winning something or losing the plot and drifting into mid-table obscurity. But I think the least Arsene Wenger deserves is a chance of seeing them off in either direction, what with all he's done for them over the past 15 years.

 

I'm sorry I called you f*ckface

[Josh]

• 2006 - Champions League Final Lost

• 2007 League Cup Final Lost

• 2008, Premier League 3rd place.

• 2008 Champions League quarter finals

• 2009 FA Cup semi-finals

• 2009 Champions League semi-finals

• 2010 Premier League 3rd place, if i remember correctly, they were in 1st place around March, only to blow it...

• 2010 Champions League quaters, losing to an insanely good Barca side.

• 2011 League Cup final Lost

• 2011 likely 3rd place Premier League

I just pointed out the problem. They keep losing in finals. He's bred a team of bottlers, great.

 

He hasn't been leading them to the summit of anything, unless second place occupies the same podium spot now. He's sentimental and he's a purist. Those two don't mix, he's also stubborn beyond belief and that makes me want to hate him too.

 

As for sacking him, I don't think that would be the right move yet. I say give him a year and give him the license to spend big, and if he doesn't bring you success or is too stubborn to change his ways then he has to go. Arsenal is bigger than one man and they need to stop being sentimental before they end up next to Liverpool in the barren trophy cabinet stakes (incidentally I think that Liverpool's last trophy win was after Arsenal's, success?).

[cactus.]

Now's definitely not the right time to sack him.

 

Ok, so not to the "summit" but I figured the general idea was clear enough. What's the next best thing to winning trophies? I'd say it's competing for trophies on a consistent basis, and that's exactly what Arsenal have been doing these years and let's be frank, they've been extremely unlucky at times. Their habit of bottling it has been more prominent in the league than anywhere else. Any fan, not just gooners, who expect their team to win everything all the time needs a reality check.

 

Another point I tried to express, albeit poorly, was this fickleness that engulfs English football nowadays is completely absurd and unjust. Managers getting sacked left and right just for not winning the league in one season, or in some rarer cases, for not winning some games.

 

Mourinho getting sacked from Chelsea springs to mind. He's one of the best managers in the world, and it was more than clear at the time of his sacking, but just because he had a bad string of results and he's out? Dumb. Chris Hughton from Newcastle, Big Sam from Blackburn, the plethora of City managers as well are good examples. [Cue Canoxa to tell me how non-objective my examples are, well I just tend to watch and follow the English league, so get over it.] Of course, bad ownership has its say in a lot of these aforementioned cases, but Arsenal isn't that type of club.

 

Josh, I remember even you saying how Arsenal is a well run club and you're right. To sack their manager who has not only helped define the club itself as a footballing culture worldwide, but also continues bring the team on the verge of winning trophies over and over again would be completely out of a character, and just plain stupid, for such a well run club. As much as I like the man, I'll even admit he's becoming a bit more senile with each passing year as he continues to blame referees for every error his players make,

but when it comes to football, I'd say he's still one of the best managers around today.

 

 

[Josh]

 

Josh, I remember even you saying how Arsenal is a well run club and you're right. To sack their manager who has not only helped define the club itself as a footballing culture worldwide, but also continues bring the team on the verge of winning trophies over and over again would be completely out of a character, and just plain stupid, for such a well run club. As much as I like the man, I'll even admit he's becoming a bit more senile with each passing year as he continues to blame referees for every error his players make,

but when it comes to football, I'd say he's still one of the best managers around today.

But should they be content with reaching the verge? It's almost like settling for second because you don't have the balls to risk everything by going for the top.

 

He's going to have to go at some point, and I think that while it will not be this season it may well be next season because I can see the new majority shareholder wanting some success.

 

I don't think Arsenal fans want to win everything, they just want to win something. And while we spoonfeed them this stuff about them being one of the best how long do you think they can kid themselves as a collective that third and fourth isn't good enough for them.

 

With bigger prizes at stake more managers will get sacked, with the amount of money that is thrown around teams can't afford to wait if they want an instant return on their investment. Alan Pardew was a long-term appointment by Mike Ashley, and while we can debate whether or not that was a good decision it does have sound reasoning. it also has no weight with regards to Wenger's situation. The same can be said about Allardyce, and while I don't like the bloke his sacking was an aberration - apparently they wanted somebody sweet and nice, which says it all.

 

And poor results weren't the only reason for Mourinho's sacking, he got too big for his boots and clashed with the chairman frequently as time went on.

 

EDIT: Fixed spelling...

Edited April 25, 2011 by Josh

[SIKKS66]

I read an interesting article the other week regarding the set-up at Arsenal. The journo in question pointed out how in Arsene's entire tenure in North London he's had the one assistant, Pat Rice. I don't think it's unfair to say that Rice is a bit of a legend at Arsenal and within the coaching profession. I'd also point out how the First Team Coach at Arsenal has been there since 1997.

 

However, since 1996 (the year Wenger joined Arsenal) Sir Alex Ferguson has had six different assistants: Brian Kidd, Steve McClaren, Jimmy Ryan, Carlos Quieroz, Walter Smith and Mike Phelan. Each one of them brought to the table a great deal of unique footballing knowledge from their respective pasts and have gone on to manage club teams such as Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Wolfsburg, FC Twente, Rangers and Real Madrid and national teams such as England, Scotland and Portugal. More importantly each brought their own unique perspective on the game into Sir Alex's staff and "fresh eyes" on issues and problems within the team. I don't think it's any coincidence that our epic defensive unit of the Ronaldo era (Rio, Vidic, Evra, Brown/O'Shea/Neville) was at it's best when the more defensively astute Quieroz was at the club.

 

As for our first team coach, Rene Muelensteen worked up the ranks impressing with his revolutionary technical skills coaching. Apparently this impressed Fergie enough to bring the guy up and into his closest staff and his coaching still has effects today within the Academy.

 

Now I'm not saying Arsenal's problems lay at the feet of the loyal servant Pat Rice, no way. I'm saying everything at Arsenal goes through their dictator Arsene Wenger. He is the boss at that club and there is nobody there who can or will go against his ideology and orders. Who in the Arsenal dressing room would stand up and be bold enough to challenge Wenger at all? None would be my guess. Not the staff, not many (if any) of the players. Fabregas isn't a captain, he doesn't rally the troops on the pitch and I can't see him doing it off it. Robin van Persie is a big headed twat who believes his own hype. Wojciech Szczęsny and Jack Wilshire are the biggest characters in the Arsenal squad and they're bloody 21 and 19! Behind the scenes, I can't see Pat Rice or any of the other staff there challenging him and there's no longer a David Dein figure assisting Wenger in the business/transfer world.

 

You can't buy class but I'm sure you could buy character. Wenger would do his set-up a world of good by bringing in players with character, vocal players who will rally the troops like very few players at Arsenal can. Perhaps a new member of staff who could bring new ideas to the team that has had the same brains behind the operation since 1997. Nothing seems to radically change season after season at Arsenal, they seem to be in a perpetual state of expecting, waiting for all these big trophies to fall into their lap because they play pretty football. A shot in the arm- be it from a new man behind the scenes or a couple of footballers willing to contribute more to the negative side of the game- would do the club a world of good. I just don't see it happening while Wenger is there.

Edited April 25, 2011 by SIKKS66

[Waddy]

You cannot deny that Wengers eye for talent isnt superb. He just dosent believe in having to have expensive experienced players. I can see where he is coming from but experience is vital for a club. Look at Neville for Everton, he is a great captain, so much so even at his age Spurs wanted him in January, its vital.

I just can never see why he gets no stick, look at Rafa at Liverpool, he win the CL, the Uefa? Plus gets Liverpool into 2nd and challenging in 6 seasons? Then he has one bad start and thats it, hes out. Arsenal have won bugger all in how many seasons? Yes its all very well being up there and I guess thats what the Arsenal Board are happy with, they do go far in most comps and they always get to the money stage in the CL, but I just think its unfair what happens to other clubs, or are Arsenal fans just realistic?

 

So man City won last night, it was hardly convincing though. I think thats the top 4 settled now.

[cactus.]

 

But should they be content with reaching the verge? It's almost like settling for second because you don't have the balls to risk everything by going for the top.

 

Well I just have to disagree with you about "not having the balls to go for the top." They were knocked out of the Champions League by an insanely good Barca side after giving it a right go, and the players ought to bear responsibility for their woes in the league just as much as Wenger should. To his credit, he did go for it in the League Cup final by playing his first team instead of youngsters as he did in 2007 against Chelsea. A fluky 90th minute mistake cost them the chance to raise silverware. Wenger's fault, or Koscienly/Szczesny's?

 

I don't think they're settling for second nor are they necessarily content with it, but knocking on the door of the league title and several other major trophies each season sure beats the hell out of mid-table mediocrity and scrambling for a precious CL spot, at least I think so.

 

 

He's sentimental and he's a purist. Those two don't mix

Sure seemed to mix well for them for nearly a decade between '97 and '05 Arsenal are in a funk right now, and there need to be some changes (e.g. spending a bit more in the summer transfer window and bring in some quality defenders, ffs) But ousting Wenger at this point is not the solution me thinks.

 

 

So man City won last night, it was hardly convincing though. I think thats the top 4 settled now.

Likely, but god I hope not. Both them and Tottenham are very unpredictable sides, so four points is all that great a difference, but their fixture together on May 10 ought to settle it. City aren't even deserving of a CL place. I can already see them losing their qualifying fixture to Slavia Prague...

Edited April 26, 2011 by TheCacti

[Josh]

Well I just have to disagree with you about "not having the balls to go for the top." They were knocked out of the Champions League by an insanely good Barca side after giving it a right go, and the players ought to bear responsibility for their woes in the league just as much as Wenger should. To his credit, he did go for it in the League Cup final by playing his first team instead of youngsters as he did in 2007 against Chelsea. A fluky 90th minute mistake cost them the chance to raise silverware. Wenger's fault, or Koscienly/Szczesny's?

 

I don't think they're settling for second nor are they necessarily content with it, but knocking on the door of the league title and several other major trophies each season sure beats the hell out of mid-table mediocrity and scrambling for a precious CL spot, at least I think so.

 

Sure seemed to mix well for them for nearly a decade between '97 and '05 Arsenal are in a funk right now, and there need to be some changes (e.g. spending a bit more in the summer transfer window and bring in some quality defenders, ffs) But ousting Wenger at this point is not the solution me thinks.

 

No, that fluky goal was the end of the defeat for Arsenal. They were already half-beaten when they came out onto the pitch because they underestimated Birmingham, once they equalised they should have pushed on and won comfortably but they just couldn't do it and got punished after making one mistake. I don't put the blame at the feet of either of the players directly involved in Martins' goal, Wenger's whole team underperformed. Is that a reflection on the man that quite often his teams aren't prepared for finals?

 

Well it is true that for them 2nd is better than 8th or 6th. However when you look at their material resources in terms of players; a huge ground; a huge fanbase; etc there is no way they'd be mediocre. Therefore your attempt to say that they should be happy getting beaten to the punch every year is sort of strange.

 

Even in that time period they were a bit too inconsistent for my liking. I know that they won trophies, but if you look at Manchester United under Ferguson they have been a lot more consistent. You could also say that when they were winning big, they were buying players. Wiltord, Sol Campbell, Ljungberg, Anelka, Overmars and many more. It almost seems like Wenger wanted the success, so he spent. Then he wanted an ego trip so he decided to forsake success in an attempt to build a dynasty of young players. But the problem is that they lack steel. Plus, you admitted it yourself earlier, he's getting more senile with each passing year. That hardly makes it likely tat they will experience success in the near future.

 

They certainly need to bring in a good defender and a good goal-scorer, as well as a good goalkeeper. And we are both in agreement that Wenger shouldn't go yet. I think they should wait out at least one more year and give him financial backing, and if they don't even threaten to win the title then in my opinion Arsene should be looking for a new job.

 

As an aside, what team do you support?

[cactus.]

 

Therefore your attempt to say that they should be happy getting beaten to the punch every year is sort of strange.

I never said that. I merely expressed that their situation isn't exactly a dire one, and therefore the notions that "Arsenal are at the end of the road" are massive exaggerations given their recent finishes in the Premier League and cup competitions all around.

 

I've always considered myself to be a neutral, simply because I have no personal affiliation with any English club and thus it'd feel kinda superficial to pledge my allegiance to one club over another just based on success, players, or whatever... But I do take a liking towards a certain North-London club, and it ain't Spurs Plus, they're one of the few English teams I've seen in person.

 

Yourself?

[MyDog]

Champions League semi-final match is tonight and you babble about Arsenal. C'mon, who's gonna win tonight, Schalke or Manchester United?

[Josh]

 

Therefore your attempt to say that they should be happy getting beaten to the punch every year is sort of strange.

I never said that. I merely expressed that their situation isn't exactly a dire one, and therefore the notions that "Arsenal are at the end of the road" are massive exaggerations given their recent finishes in the Premier League and cup competitions all around.

 

I've always considered myself to be a neutral, simply because I have no personal affiliation with any English club and thus it'd feel kinda superficial to pledge my allegiance to one club over another just based on success, players, or whatever... But I do take a liking towards a certain North-London club, and it ain't Spurs Plus, they're one of the few English teams I've seen in person.

 

Yourself?

They may not be at the end of the road, but they're certainly deviating from the path of success.

 

My team? Bristol City..

 

 

Champions League semi-final match is tonight and you babble about Arsenal. C'mon, who's gonna win tonight, Schalke or Manchester United?

That's because the Arsenal situation is more interesting to me. Man Utd will probably win over two legs, although I wouldn't be taking that for granted because there's romance in the air. I can smell an upset...

[flitcroft101]

Schalke Schalke Schalke!

 

Raul for glory

[cactus.]

 

Champions League semi-final match is tonight and you babble about Arsenal. C'mon, who's gonna win tonight, Schalke or Manchester United?

Contrary to popular belief, I cannot predict the future. So I prefer to babble instead.

 

......

 

Schalke 2 - 1 United

[Canoxa]

[Cue Canoxa to tell me how non-objective my examples are, well I just tend to watch and follow the English league, so get over it.]

What the sh*t? I was agreeing with you. You were putting up a great argument until that post, where you had the chance to kill it but instead fell a bit short. It wasn't even about restricting yourself to the Premier League.

[cactus.]

[Cue Canoxa to tell me how non-objective my examples are, well I just tend to watch and follow the English league, so get over it.]

What the sh*t? I was agreeing with you. You were putting up a great argument until that post, where you had the chance to kill it but instead fell a bit short. It wasn't even about restricting yourself to the Premier League.

I just named you because you were fresh in mind as the one who would likely call out my subjectivity. But that did sound rather dickish, didn't it? Wasn't meant to be personal or anything. The premier league reference was just regarding my and Josh's last debate about managers not given enough time/credit..

[Canoxa]

[Cue Canoxa to tell me how non-objective my examples are, well I just tend to watch and follow the English league, so get over it.]

What the sh*t? I was agreeing with you. You were putting up a great argument until that post, where you had the chance to kill it but instead fell a bit short. It wasn't even about restricting yourself to the Premier League.

I just named you because you were fresh in mind as the one who would likely call out my subjectivity. But that did sound rather dickish, didn't it? Wasn't meant to be personal or anything. The premier league reference was just regarding my and Josh's last debate about managers not given enough time/credit..

I used the term 'objective' not as opposed to 'subjective' but as in not clear enough, or direct to the point. As I said, one simple example and there would be little space for Josh to reply. You hung around the points you had already made instead of skipping ahead.

[cactus.]

Well I appreciate you pointing out the shortcomings in my argument Consider it well noted, and I'll keep it in my mind during future debates. Now my babbling has reached new heights even for me, please allow me to divert...

 

Who else is looking forward to seeing the greatest English team tonight?!

Stoke City had better win and keep a shutout, at least for my fantasy team Robert Huth hattrick, anyone?

[JOSEPH X]

Champions League semi-final match is tonight and you babble about Arsenal. C'mon, who's gonna win tonight, Schalke or Manchester United?

Contrary to popular belief, I cannot predict the future. So I prefer to babble instead.

 

......

 

Schalke 2 - 1 United

Gearing up for the big match later...wouldn't mind bringing 2-1 to Schalke back to OT.

 

Darron Gibson (who?) opened a twatter account today, then closed it after getting a sh*tload of abuse from the reds:

 

@dgibbo28 your performance on saturday was one of the worst I've ever seen of any utd player. scared of the ball much?'

 

@dgibbo28 hasn't tweeted yet. Seems somewhat fitting after the countless anonymous performances we've seen from the 'footballer'

 

@dgibbo28 my mate thought you were about 33 years old in the heart of midfield! Movement like pirlo!!

 

@dgibbo28 team do all hard work keeping possession then u hit row Z every f*ckin time!!

 

@dgibbo28 the biggest compliment i can give you is that you are better than Carrick

 

LMFAO!

[Seddo]

Yesterday that wasn't it? I don't think he lasted more than two hours before closing it, haha.

 

I like Gibson's Playstation controller...

 

[Der_Don]

^Hahaha that is great

 

Bring it on Schalke!

[Vercetti27]

@cacti

 

I wasn't retorting anything pal. The problem ain't finishing 3rd every year its AMBITION. our club only wants CL football . When we left highbury for the bowl we were told it would allow us to compete financially with europe's elite, yet we have spent the minimum to get by finishing 4th.

 

Wenger and our board have lied to us so many times about money available and what his objectives are. I can't begin to describe the sh*t wenger's done to us since 2006.

Only through and through arsenal fans pay attention to the little things he does. Apart from embarassing us with his repetoir of excuses and berating to fourth officials when he should be instilling a WINNING MENTALITY at the club.

His approach to football since 2006 has been wrong . He built his new lightweight team around a 19 year old and sold all EXPERIENCED players and tried to build a young squad on the cheap. Not only forgetting the disgusting prices we pay to sit at the grove and the way Hill Wood treats the fans we have a lot to complain abou

[SIKKS66]

I really like Gibbo, I hope he proves all his doubters wrong. But that controller is f*cking funny

 

5 minutes til kick off... in the words of Rio Ferdinand; lets av iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!

[JOSEPH X]

Here we go again!

 

So many chances squandered by Utd in the first half. Neuer was excellent tho.