...::[The Footy Desk]::... (Part 1)

[Seddo]

Hahaha get in Dirktroid .

 

Gotta say well played to Flanno and Robbo, coped pretty damn good. Only 17 and 18 as well.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Seddo

[The Killa]

"aggh piss off"

 

Really happy with that, considering we are without Gerrard, Agger, Johnson, as well as losing Carra, Aurelio and Carroll and played the youngsters. We certainly didn't deserve to lose.

 

Congratulations to Stoke!

Edited April 17, 2011 by The Killa

[TommyMufc-Champs]

I lol'ed so much. Get In Kuyt, you score a hat-trick against us and then practicality hand us the title.

[The Killa]

I lol'ed so much. Get In Kuyt, you score a hat-trick against us and then practicality hand us the title.

As if it mattered, Arsenal would have ended up bottling the league if they had won today anyway.

[Josh]

 

@ Josh You didn't think the Arsenal penalty was the right decision?

In retrospect probably just about. Fabregas went down a bit too easily for my liking, it was almost like he was so desperate to do something after being kept quiet for the whole game. Spearing shouldn't have gone in like that though.

[TommyMufc-Champs]

I lol'ed so much. Get In Kuyt, you score a hat-trick against us and then practicality hand us the title.

As if it mattered, Arsenal would have ended up bottling the league if they had won today anyway.

Yeah I know but I feel even more comfortable. Spurs will beat Arsenal at White Hart Lane, United will win the title at the Emirates

[Chunk]

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

 

Also, I love this:

 

[AndyGanteks]

Holy f*ck, that Arsenal-Liverpool game lasted 12 extra more minutes. I never saw that happen, except in games where the game ends when a team finally scores it.

 

Anyways, United is now closing in on the title, and so in Dortmund, i love Borussia, finally they are going to claim the title!

[JOSEPH X]

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

 

Also, I love this:

 

LMFAO! That is so cool.

 

Arsenal need to find some bottle, and come on Stook!

[Josh]

Holy f*ck, that Arsenal-Liverpool game lasted 12 extra more minutes. I never saw that happen, except in games where the game ends when a team finally scores it.

 

I've seen 2 in 2 days. Bristol City vs Ipswich was set back by an incident which was almost exactly the same (head injury) and over 11 extra minutes were played, but I don't know how many exactly. Unlike in this game no extra goals were scored in time added on though (sadly).

[MyDog]

I've always hated that: a game ends after 102 minutes, and ends 0-0. f*ck I watched it for then?!

[Waddy]

Liverpool gift Man Utd the title I see!

 

Stoke scraped a lucky win...?

[cactus.]

 

Liverpool gift Man Utd the title I see!

Nah, it was practically Eboué who gifted it to them. What a knob.

 

 

Profit isn't integral to the way that football clubs are run nowadays. While there are some clubs who run profits each year and make an effort to achieve sustainable finances, Arsenal being a good example, there are far more clubs who make losses and have them covered by loans from a bank or a chairman. What you said may be becoming true of the teams at the top of the game, however for everyone else merchandise and profit comes a distant second to success.

Sorry to keep resurrecting this debate but I just cannot..help..my...self...

 

Not every club has the luxury of incurring losses at the end of the fiscal year and yet stay afloat. I wasn't exactly trying to say that turning large profits is integral, but being fiscally responsible sure is.

Of course success comes first, but more and more clubs are having to buy success, barring the occasional cinderella story. However sad, I think it's true. The Premier League is a prime example and La Liga, once a semi-competitive league, is quickly turning into the new SPL due to the obscene TV deals that are unfairly cut for just Barça and Madrid. And as a result other teams, not just in La Liga and England, are having to find themselves wealthy owners that inject cash into the transfer market and wage book just so they can compete. These notions, in my book, can only lead to a larger trend at hand and it reeks of capitalism (i.e. business, baby!)

 

On a more positive note, the Bundesliga is proof that uber wealth isn't necessary to compete and it's the league's structure as a whole and its regulations that help it keep it competitive at the top echelon of football. This has almost everything to do with the fact the clubs are primarily owned by the fans. The German football clubs are both socially significant yet soundly run businesses, and in my opinion, others leagues ought to follow suit for their own good.

Edited April 17, 2011 by TheCacti

[Canoxa]

On a more positive note, the Bundesliga is proof that uber wealth isn't necessary to compete and it's the league's structure as a whole and its regulations that help it keep it competitive at the top echelon of football. This has almost everything to do with the fact the clubs are primarily owned by the fans. The German football clubs are both socially significant yet soundly run businesses, and in my opinion, others leagues ought to follow suit for their own good.

I do not agree with Josh on this matter, but your retort wasn't objective enough. The Bundesliga is secondary, in Europe and the world's structure of professional football leagues, to the big three of La Liga, Premiership and Serie A. Besides, Schalke, the only german team in the european competitions, is sponsored by Russian oil. Bayern, arguably the leading German team, while laudably run by former football glories, is structured like a business: Adidas bought a part and the club channeled the money to build the amazing Allianz Arena (named after yet another company). Some time ago, the club sold yet more shares to Audi, and used the money to amortize the debt contracted by building the very same stadim.

[Josh]

The German football clubs are both socially significant yet soundly run businesses, and in my opinion, others leagues ought to follow suit for their own good.

But they aren't supposed to be run as businesses! In an ideal world running something like a business in sport would take precedence, however the sporting world and the business world are completely different if you ignore the notion of accounting. Accounting is necessary in all areas, but if you are to compare a football club to any other thing, let it be a school or something like that. Something which has a responsibility to all stakeholders to be responsible but which is ultimately in the pursuit of success at the end of the day.

 

What you might be able to draw is the fact that the Premier League could become just like the SPL is or La Liga is becoming: A Two horse race. Man Utd and Arsenal have the biggest stadiums, therefore they get in more money, other teams can't compete due to UEFA sanctions and regulations, Man Utd and Arsenal become more successful, they get the biggest TV deals and sponsorship deals and before you know it you've created a duopoly from what was once an oligopoly...

[Canoxa]

I frankly don't know what feels weirder - the notion that you think that top level sport is absolutely detached from business, or the idea that you regard current practice as as "ideal".

 

Frankly, nearly every league is a two horse race. The exception is perhaps your Premiership. And that would be because of outsider money, I feel. And, on a funnier note, the league you two seem to be nominating as the biggest two horse race is Spain's La Liga, which is the championship with the strongest middle and bottom-table teams - and that shows in the spanish and european games.

[The Killa]

I dislike American sports quite much so but I like the fact they encourage parity among everyone. Despite a majority of Americans rejecting Socialism in any form, they love the fact that money in a sports club - while important - does not necessarily equate to immediate or eventual success success. Such is highlighted by the Draft system, where the best young prospects go to lesser clubs in an effort to encourage a level playing field for every team.

 

Therefore you don't get so many 2, 3 or 4 horse races every year. Although that is helped by the playoffs in which any mid-table team has a chance at the title, but still requires the tactical consistency and talent to win the whole thing.

 

Anyway, sorry to go maybe too far. My point is that while the Premier League and La Liga shouldn't do American-style playoffs (dear god no), it should at least encourage parity financially and with young talent among every club, which is supposedly being helped with the financial rules next season anyway. Therefore every team has a bigger opportunity to be launched into success by working with their resources, rather than be given limitless funds to buy every single quality player in the world.

 

 

The Bundesliga is secondary, in Europe and the world's structure of professional football leagues, to the big three of La Liga, Premiership and Serie A.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, or if I'm misunderstanding you, but isn't the Bundesliga getting a 4th CL spot from Serie A? What would that say about the Bundesligas structure? Which would actually make sense considering the Serie A is utter, utter sh*t. A league thats still rampant with corrupt officials, half empty stadiums, and hooliganism.

Edited April 18, 2011 by The Killa

[SIKKS66]

Lol, that's bloody quality.

[Waddy]

I have no issues with the 2 horse races as you guys call it, its the same in any walk of life and many sports too. How long have the Klitcho (sp) brothers been a 2 horse race in Boxing now?

The problem I have with the prem is the lower clubs in the botton 2/3rds of the table, they get TV money and they get other money too but they are mostly terrified to even think about spending it because they know they risk the drop. So they wont buy better more expensive players which could secure them a place in the prem because they are always thinking what if they go down. Many are probably not even bothered if they do go down and are quite happy to collect the parachute payment and come up the following year, makes for a lucrative business.

It is the 'outside' of the top 5 clubs that need help in our league. Villa have spent big but really made little impact and have only just come out of the relegation battle. None of the other clubs have made any big signings, and the way its going they probably wont. Unless they do a City and manage to inject 250million of free money they dont have to pay back they have no chance at all. I am also of the belief that if someone wants to inject 250m of free money into a club they own then they can do that, its theirs to do what they have to do.

The scary thing is though...to compete with man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal and now Man City, you have to have an injection of 250m! Then you have Spurs bringing up the rear who have also spent a sh*t load of dosh.

Look at the table as it stands and that is also kind of an league of spenders too. Only Villa should be higher?

 

[Der_Don]

Anyways, United is now closing in on the title, and so in Dortmund, i love Borussia, finally they are going to claim the title!

Hell yes!

8 points clear, 4 games to go. That's it. There's no way, we're going to lose the title-race. If everything goes well, we'll be the new champions by the end of the next week

[TommyMufc-Champs]

Anyways, United is now closing in on the title, and so in Dortmund, i love Borussia, finally they are going to claim the title!

Hell yes!

8 points clear, 4 games to go. That's it. There's no way, we're going to lose the title-race. If everything goes well, we'll be the new champions by the end of the next week

Congrats and enjoy the celebrations

[Der_Don]

Anyways, United is now closing in on the title, and so in Dortmund, i love Borussia, finally they are going to claim the title!

Hell yes!

8 points clear, 4 games to go. That's it. There's no way, we're going to lose the title-race. If everything goes well, we'll be the new champions by the end of the next week

Congrats and enjoy the celebrations

Thanks!

I will

[Canoxa]

 

The Bundesliga is secondary, in Europe and the world's structure of professional football leagues, to the big three of La Liga, Premiership and Serie A.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, or if I'm misunderstanding you, but isn't the Bundesliga getting a 4th CL spot from Serie A? What would that say about the Bundesligas structure? Which would actually make sense considering the Serie A is utter, utter sh*t. A league thats still rampant with corrupt officials, half empty stadiums, and hooliganism.

That's correct, but that says more about the Serie A, like you were quick to point out, than the Bundesliga. That doesn't make it any less secondary. Portugal is getting an extra team as well, and you don't see me hailing it as one of the best european championships. In fact, I think Ukraine is getting an extra spot as well. The number of teams in the competitions are dictated by ranking position. It fluctuates, and it might not always reflect the true value of a league at that very moment. Perhaps that's why Serie A is still regarded at a top league. But, in the mean time, that's how we have to consider them - the Serie A is still atop the european football scene and the Bundesliga is a quality league just underneath. For the mean time.

[Josh]

The Bundesliga is secondary, in Europe and the world's structure of professional football leagues, to the big three of La Liga, Premiership and Serie A.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, or if I'm misunderstanding you, but isn't the Bundesliga getting a 4th CL spot from Serie A? What would that say about the Bundesligas structure? Which would actually make sense considering the Serie A is utter, utter sh*t. A league thats still rampant with corrupt officials, half empty stadiums, and hooliganism.

That's correct, but that says more about the Serie A, like you were quick to point out, than the Bundesliga. That doesn't make it any less secondary. Portugal is getting an extra team as well, and you don't see me hailing it as one of the best european championships. In fact, I think Ukraine is getting an extra spot as well. The number of teams in the competitions are dictated by ranking position. It fluctuates, and it might not always reflect the true value of a league at that very moment. Perhaps that's why Serie A is still regarded at a top league. But, in the mean time, that's how we have to consider them - the Serie A is still atop the european football scene and the Bundesliga is a quality league just underneath. For the mean time.

Germany is getting an extra spot.

 

This coefficient is determined by the results of the clubs of the leagues in UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League games over the past five seasons. Two points are awarded for each win by a club, and one for a draw. Goals scored in extra time do count in determining the outcome of a game, but any Penalty shootout result does not affect the allocation of points other than the bonus points. The number of points awarded each season is divided by the number of teams that participated for that nation in that season. This number is then rounded down to three decimal places (e.g. 2⅔ would be rounded to 2.666).

 

For the league coefficient the season's league coefficients for the last five seasons must be added up. In the preliminary rounds of both the Champions League and Europa League, the awarded points are halved. Bonus points are allocated for:

 

* Qualifying for the Champions League group phase (4 bonus points).

* Reaching the second round of the Champions League (5 bonus points).

* Reaching the quarter, semi and final of either the Champions League or the Europa League (1 bonus point).

 

The bonus points are added to the number of points scored in a season.

 

So for the 2012-13 season Portugal has an extra CL place but one less EL place, which gives them the same number of places. Ukraine isn't getting an extra spot.

[MyDog]

Premier League Winner: Manchester United

La Liga Winner: Probably Barcelona

Bundesliga Winner: Borussia Dortmund

Eredivisie Winner: Twente or PSV

Serie A Winner: Milan

 

Porto already became champions of Primiera Liga. 27 matches, 25 wins, 2 draws. Fantastic.

[Canoxa]

So for the 2012-13 season Portugal has an extra CL place but one less EL place, which gives them the same number of places. Ukraine isn't getting an extra spot.

Thanks for clarifying. I don't recall reading about Portugal losing the EL spot in our sport press. Are you sure? And Ukraine, I must be confusing with last year, but I do recall they have won a spot recently.

 

Other than that, my point still stands. It should be said that I agree with Killa's take on the Serie A, and I frankly prefer the Bundesliga to the Italian league. However, this new data drives me back to the original discussion: Germany has climbed the club ranking due to capital injections in its main clubs.

[Josh]

So for the 2012-13 season Portugal has an extra CL place but one less EL place, which gives them the same number of places. Ukraine isn't getting an extra spot.

Thanks for clarifying. I don't recall reading about Portugal losing the EL spot in our sport press. Are you sure? And Ukraine, I must be confusing with last year, but I do recall they have won a spot recently.

 

According to the rankings on the UEFA site Portugal has climbed from 9th to 6th. 9th spot has 2 CL and 4 EL and 6th has 3 of both. Maybe the reason why is because you haven't gained or lost the spot yet as it only comes into effect the season after next? I don't know.

 

Maybe you're thinking of Romania? They won a spot or two a year or so ago but have now promptly lost it again. I don't know...

[Canoxa]

 

So for the 2012-13 season Portugal has an extra CL place but one less EL place, which gives them the same number of places. Ukraine isn't getting an extra spot.

Thanks for clarifying. I don't recall reading about Portugal losing the EL spot in our sport press. Are you sure? And Ukraine, I must be confusing with last year, but I do recall they have won a spot recently.

 

According to the rankings on the UEFA site Portugal has climbed from 9th to 6th. 9th spot has 2 CL and 4 EL and 6th has 3 of both. Maybe the reason why is because you haven't gained or lost the spot yet as it only comes into effect the season after next? I don't know.

 

Maybe you're thinking of Romania? They won a spot or two a year or so ago but have now promptly lost it again. I don't know...

Nope. Maybe the press is stressing the new CL spot, and the prestige that it carries. I know when it'll come into effect. Or maybe it slipped my reading. Oh well, it's not important.

 

Haha, there's an eBay auction for Torres.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Canoxa

[Der_Don]

 

However, this new data drives me back to the original discussion: Germany has climbed the club ranking due to capital injections in its main clubs.

Of course there are capital injections. BUT due to this rule investors aren't allowed to own more than 49 % of a club's shares.

Volkswagen for example owns 49 % of the VFL Wolfsburg shares. The Bayer AG holds a huge percentage of the Leverkusen-shares. But no one is allowed to own more than 49 %.

So, this is a huge difference between the Bundesliga and other top-leagues.

And personally, I think it's a good thing. I don't want any Bundesliga-club to become a toy of some Arabic sheikh or whatever.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Der_Don

[Josh]

 

However, this new data drives me back to the original discussion: Germany has climbed the club ranking due to capital injections in its main clubs.

Of course there are capital injections. BUT due to this rule investors aren't allowed to own more than 49 % of a club's shares.

Volkswagen for example owns 49 % of the VFL Wolfsburg shares. The Bayer AG holds a huge percentage of the Leverkusen-shares. But no one is allowed to own more than 49 %.

So, this is a huge difference between the Bundesliga and other top-leagues.

And personally, I think it's a good thing. I don't want any Bundesliga-club to become a toy of some Arabic sheikh or whatever.

They can still inject capital and be a sugar daddy though, which for all purposes effectively means that there remains the possibility that it could become a billionaire's toy.