Were the references to past GTA games too obvious in V?

[universetwisters]

were did Michelle/Karen make an appearance?

 

In "Threes Company". She was the interrogator.

 

[Jonesizzle]

How was the appearances of Ken Rosenburg, Kent Paul, Salvatore Leone, Maria, Claude or even Catilina a sign of lazy writing? I never once felt like they threw in a load of returning characters to be lazy, in fact, it gave us answers to origins of claude, catilina and maria for III and closure for Rosenburg and Paul and if you had the DVD it let us know that Mr. V himself was still alive and kickin' when Rosenburg tried to get in touch with him, which was a nod to the fans.

 

I still think the III-era had a more intriguing story than the IV-era.

[universetwisters]

How was the appearances of Ken Rosenburg, Kent Paul, Salvatore Leone, Maria, Claude or even Catilina a sign of lazy writing? I never once felt like they threw in a load of returning characters to be lazy, in fact, it gave us answers to origins of claude, catilina and maria for III and closure for Rosenburg and Paul and if you had the DVD it let us know that Mr. V himself was still alive and kickin' when Rosenburg tried to get in touch with him, which was a nod to the fans.

 

One of the funnest things in games I like are mysteries and "wild guessing".

 

Let's use your example of Claude, for example. The reason why Claude is nameless and has no dialogue is because Rockstar envisioned the player to be Claude, right? Ergo, you can make up your own backstory for Claude, be it he was always a career criminal who met Catalina at a strip club or Claude used to be a 9-5 businessman who ended up getting fired shortly before robbing a bank with some random hooker (Catalina) he met on the streets. Flash forward to San Andreas. You can see Claude is there. You see Rockstar already gave Claude a backstory, a reason for being in San Andreas or being with Catalina. And as far as the lazy writing went, look at the plot to San Andreas. It starts strong in Los Santos, and then in Las Venturas, you meet Salvatore Leone, Kent Paul, and Ken Rosenberg, all of whom you end up doing missions (or at least interacting with) for the majority of the Las Venturas' story arc. The fact that they're more or less subtle about their references and then say "oh, let's just add in all these old guys from GTA games" kinda gives it away.

[Jonesizzle]

Not really... Leone is/was a mob boss trying to expand his business to the west coast, coincidence or not, Michael Corleone did the same thing in The Godfather: Part 2. Ken Rosenburg was a coke head lawyer stuck in the 80's trying to get out of the mob life, but always got sucked back in it. Kent Paul was a party go'er who knew everybody who passed through VC, it's not that shocking he got stuck with Maccer in San Andreas.

 

It's not like they mindlessly threw in characters for the sake of throwing in old characters, like your implying. It'd be different if Tommy Vercetti came in and single handily murder Rosenburg and Paul to miraculously become the villain of San Andreas... then your opinion, to me, would have more reason.

Edited May 3, 2014 by DOOM!

[universetwisters]

Not really... Leone is/was a mob boss trying to expand his business to the west coast, coincidence or not, Michael Corleone did the same thing in The Godfather: Part 2. Ken Rosenburg was a coke head lawyer stuck in the 80's trying to get out of the mob life, but always got sucked back in it. Kent Paul was a party go'er who knew everybody who passed through VC, it's not that shocking he got stuck with Maccer in San Andreas.

 

I understand the part about the Leones being a mob and were expanding to the west coast, but of all the mafia families in the III-era trilogy, why the Leones? If you worked for the Leones in III and Tommy used to be in the Forellis before VC, then why would they miss a good chance to give the Sindaccos a role in the game? As far as Ken goes, I know Tommy sent him to a rehab to get himself cleaned for his cocaine addiction (as shown in the introduction), but of all the rehabs in the GTA-verse, why a small one out in the middle of a deserted town in the middle of nowhere? Same could be said with Kent Paul. I get the roles these characters play in the game, but why not make up new characters for said roles as opposed to trying to make said characters fit in the roles?

[theNGclan]

So, Rockstar is doing something bad by reusing characters? San Andreas obviously takes place after Vice City and before LCS/III. San Andreas builds the backstory of LCS/III characters while it adds a proper ending to a few VC characters. Rockstar does this because it expands their story. Sounds to me like GTA might be the game for you if you can't handle that.

 

You seem to critique the game so much. It's not perfect, yes, but you should've known there'd be things you wouldn't like. You paid money for it, you should expect there to be a catch. Rockstar has done nothing wrong by writing their story how they have. There product isn't hurting anyone so it's fine how it is.

 

Better yet, make a GTA-clone yourself or with a good bunch of friends and make it all your own. Then it can have nothing but unique and new characters! Right?

Edited May 3, 2014 by theNGclan

[Jonesizzle]

 

 

Not really... Leone is/was a mob boss trying to expand his business to the west coast, coincidence or not, Michael Corleone did the same thing in The Godfather: Part 2. Ken Rosenburg was a coke head lawyer stuck in the 80's trying to get out of the mob life, but always got sucked back in it. Kent Paul was a party go'er who knew everybody who passed through VC, it's not that shocking he got stuck with Maccer in San Andreas.

I understand the part about the Leones being a mob and were expanding to the west coast, but of all the mafia families in the III-era trilogy, why the Leones? If you worked for the Leones in III and Tommy used to be in the Forellis before VC, then why would they miss a good chance to give the Sindaccos a role in the game? As far as Ken goes, I know Tommy sent him to a rehab to get himself cleaned for his cocaine addiction (as shown in the introduction), but of all the rehabs in the GTA-verse, why a small one out in the middle of a deserted town in the middle of nowhere? Same could be said with Kent Paul. I get the roles these characters play in the game, but why not make up new characters for said roles as opposed to trying to make said characters fit in the roles?

Hey you pose decent questions that no one has answers for. I will tell you I'd rather send my coke head lawyer to rehab in the middle of no where rather than smack dab in a drug infested city.

 

I thought "said characters" fit perfectly, I never once played through SA and thought, "damn, they really forced Catalina in this game.." The whole damn game flowed together well with returning characters.. I'll say that for the whole III-era, hence why I'd prefer the III-story over the IV-story.

[happygrowls]

Grand Theft Auto: Fanservice

[SaintJimmy]

This thread is perfect proof that you guys will literally find anything to bitch and whine about. My god.

Edited May 3, 2014 by SaintJimmy

[universetwisters]

You seem to critique the game so much. It's not perfect, yes, but you should've known there'd be things you wouldn't like. You paid money for it, you should expect there to be a catch. Rockstar has done nothing wrong by writing their story how they have. There product isn't hurting anyone so it's fine how it is.

 

Are there things I don't like about GTA 5? Yes. I did know there was going to be a catch and when I bought it, I was expecting something that a lot of people pre-release predicted/feared, such as a small map or something. But still, just because I point out a flaw in a game, does that mean I'm barred from having an opinion about it? Am I barred from expressing said opinion about it? I get it that you don't like whining, which is why you did that whole North Yankton thread, but some people like to complain about things and discuss said complaints. The game isn't a 100% masterpiece.

[GN 92]

Marine, Rocco, and the UL Paper guy

 

WTF, where??

[universetwisters]

 

Marine, Rocco, and the UL Paper guy

 

WTF, where??

 

 

Marnie - The blonde chick who helps you with the Epsilom missions

Rocco - I believe he was in two of the three Solomon gives you

UL Paper guy - He was in "Monkey Business" and "The Wrap Up"

 

And for anyone else who's going to say Rockstar is giving us fanservice for bringing all these characters back, at least look up the definition of "fanservice" before you use it. Please.

[theNGclan]

And for anyone else who's going to say Rockstar is giving us fanservice for bringing all these characters back, at least look up the definition of "fanservice" before you use it. Please.

 

Wow, you're still trying to argue? It's still fanservice. There are people who wanted a far more fleshed out story for the said characters.

Edited May 3, 2014 by theNGclan

[universetwisters]

 

And for anyone else who's going to say Rockstar is giving us fanservice for bringing all these characters back, at least look up the definition of "fanservice" before you use it. Please.

 

Wow, you're still trying to argue? Cute. It's still fanservice.

 

And you're still complaining about people who complain about things?

 

Jumping over that for now, I fail to see how fan service in the legit context is relating to the context in this thread.

[theNGclan]

You're getting hostile. If you don't want a conversation then simply don't make a thread. It really is interesting how your posts due end up leading to e-debates. Calm down and sit back. No need for any hostility.

 

A group of people want a certain character to return. There is a good chance they will return if they are in the same era. People were curious about what happened to Karen/Michelle, they are given what they wanted in V. People wanted to know if Marnie changed at all, they were given a proper closing to her story. Is it that hard to accept that Rockstar likes pleasing their fans and writing the story they see fit?

Edited May 3, 2014 by theNGclan

[universetwisters]

A group of people want a certain character to return. There is a good chance they will return if they are in the same era. People were curious about what happened to Karen/Michelle, they are given what they wanted in V. People wanted to know if Marnie changed at all, they were given a proper closing to her story. Is it that hard to accept that Rockstar likes pleasing their fans and writing the story they see fit?

 

I can't recall many people asking about what happened to Karen/Michelle. Marnie emailed Niko after her random encounters, saying she moved back in with her parents if I recall correctly. If anything, people are more curious about protagonists than supporting/minor characters.

[theNGclan]

 

A group of people want a certain character to return. There is a good chance they will return if they are in the same era. People were curious about what happened to Karen/Michelle, they are given what they wanted in V. People wanted to know if Marnie changed at all, they were given a proper closing to her story. Is it that hard to accept that Rockstar likes pleasing their fans and writing the story they see fit?

 

I can't recall many people asking about what happened to Karen/Michelle. Marnie emailed Niko after her random encounters, saying she moved back in with her parents if I recall correctly. If anything, people are more curious about protagonists than supporting/minor characters.

 

Proof please? A protagonist can only go so far without supporting characters. Now you're arguing for the sake of it. Come on now.

 

Hell, for GTA VI, let's just have NO supporting characters and have a story like this! "Hey, I'm Bob the drug lord criminal person! I like to do bad things! I have no mutual contacts! How the living hell am I drug lord? Oh well, I'm rich though! Wait, how is that possible without supporting characters?"

 

We need a lock like I need the sun.

Edited May 3, 2014 by theNGclan

[universetwisters]

 

 

A group of people want a certain character to return. There is a good chance they will return if they are in the same era. People were curious about what happened to Karen/Michelle, they are given what they wanted in V. People wanted to know if Marnie changed at all, they were given a proper closing to her story. Is it that hard to accept that Rockstar likes pleasing their fans and writing the story they see fit?

 

I can't recall many people asking about what happened to Karen/Michelle. Marnie emailed Niko after her random encounters, saying she moved back in with her parents if I recall correctly. If anything, people are more curious about protagonists than supporting/minor characters.

 

Proof please? A protagonist can only go so far without supporting characters. Now you're arguing for the sake of it. Come on now.

 

Hell, for GTA VI, let's just have NO supporting characters and have a story like this! "Hey, I'm Bob the drug lord criminal person! I like to do bad things! I have no mutual contacts! How the living hell am I drug lord? Oh well, I'm rich though! Wait, how is that possible without supporting characters?"

 

Just go to youtube, through some old wishlist threads for GTA 5 or GTA 4, etc. and you'll see more people asking for Niko, CJ, etc. to come back than people like Little Jacob or Pathos.

[Jonesizzle]

 

 

 

 

A group of people want a certain character to return. There is a good chance they will return if they are in the same era. People were curious about what happened to Karen/Michelle, they are given what they wanted in V. People wanted to know if Marnie changed at all, they were given a proper closing to her story. Is it that hard to accept that Rockstar likes pleasing their fans and writing the story they see fit?

I can't recall many people asking about what happened to Karen/Michelle. Marnie emailed Niko after her random encounters, saying she moved back in with her parents if I recall correctly. If anything, people are more curious about protagonists than supporting/minor characters.

 

Proof please? A protagonist can only go so far without supporting characters. Now you're arguing for the sake of it. Come on now.

 

Hell, for GTA VI, let's just have NO supporting characters and have a story like this! "Hey, I'm Bob the drug lord criminal person! I like to do bad things! I have no mutual contacts! How the living hell am I drug lord? Oh well, I'm rich though! Wait, how is that possible without supporting characters?"

 

We need a lock like I need the sun.

Where is the proof for wanting Michelle back? Don't bring in the "bring proof" card when you have none your damn self.

 

Honestly, the only characters I wanted to see return is Niko (of course) and I was hoping to see decisions you made as Niko transfer over to V, ala killing X or Damien.

Edited May 4, 2014 by DOOM!

[Midnightz]

Were the obviousness of the references an oversight to the developers or did they deliberately try to stuff in as many references as possible?

 

I'm sure it was done deliberately. It's shameless self-promotion in a manner that fans have always enjoyed. I don't think it matters much to fans whether they are obvious or subtle. I do think well hidden ones are more fun to find though.

[saintsrow]

Most are. I'm pretty sure there is some vice city artwork near rockford hills. There is many refrences in the mission hood safari That an OG got big into a CEO or something.

 

Here is one of the references, I think:

 

 

To the OP's point, I can kind of see why he was triggered to start a discussion about overuse of cameos being an excuse for lazy writing, but I don't think that is the big issue. I like most cameos and easter eggs. I think that GTAV had other more blatant examples of lazy writing, or specifically, lazy storytelling.

[HOW'S ANNIE?]

Ok NGclan has somewhat convinced me I was wrong about the returning characters in SA (well with the exception of Kent Paul, who really made almost no sense to be there).

 

However the difference with returning characters from IV to V is the fact they're all returning from one game practically. On top of that, these returning characters all happened to have been involved with the stories of N,J & L, and all someone manage to get themselves dragged into meeting one of the V protagonists (with none of them, bar ULP and Karen, having their return appearances connected).

[sharpie_eastern]

I say we act like Phil doesn't exsist on the forum and see what happens.

[universetwisters]

I say we act like Phil doesn't exsist on the forum and see what happens.

That's pretty irrelevant but sure . Go for it.

[RandomNoun]

It's not all that unlikely though, is it? I mean Los Santos is basically the Liberty City in the West ...

[HOW'S ANNIE?]

It's not all that unlikely though, is it? I mean Los Santos is basically the Liberty City in the West ...

The point is though, what are the chances that all these people who were involved with (at least one of) three seperate people during the fall of '08 then somehow came to be involved with at least one of three people caught up in their own intertwined stories 5 years later (and all the way across the country)?

 

This seems like the biggest strech to me.

[luisniko]

All the IV characters are fine since IV and V are in the same universe. Rockstar was bullsh*tting.

 

I take Lazlow and Love Fist as cross universe characters.

 

But this Toni and Candy Suxxx, I don't know. Reference for Vice City as the next GTA, just like Visit Los Santos banner in IV?

 

[NikosUncle]

theres like 5 characters from iv in v... thats too many and means its lazy writing? fukn retard.

 

cameos and other random connections from other gtas is one of the best parts for me.

[RandomNoun]

 

It's not all that unlikely though, is it? I mean Los Santos is basically the Liberty City in the West ...

The point is though, what are the chances that all these people who were involved with (at least one of) three seperate people during the fall of '08 then somehow came to be involved with at least one of three people caught up in their own intertwined stories 5 years later (and all the way across the country)?

 

This seems like the biggest strech to me.

 

But they're all like criminal celebrities.

[LehPhatGer-bear]

If anyone noticed the last mission "The Last One" after getting 100% in the game "quotes" GTA San Andreas. The reason why Rockstar added the mission was because people said they saw a "bigfoot" in GTA San Andreas. Plus! They guy says he has been looking for "bigfoot" for 9 years (GTA San Andreas being released 9 years ago). So adding this mission was just a little laugh to get.