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Billy > Johnny


Orto_Dogge

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Bump, again. Never mind.

 

I noticed that the leadership styles of Billy and Johnny are similar to those of Mikhail and Dimitri, respectively, and so were the relationships between the first two compared to the last two.

 

Faustin and Billy were focusing on "showing respect" and going after revenge, looking for their own "pride". Murdering for silliest reasons - "Making too much noise." as Rascalov puts it out. Overall more of act first, think later.

 

Dimitri and Johnny on the other hand are wiser and more responsible. They were looking forward for truces, deals and whatever is good for business, but still intimidating and effective. They just know when to pick their picks and when to calm. Although I gotta admit that Johnny should've considered dealing with Ray before stealing the money, because even though the Pegorinos were falling apart, they still had enough power to cripple other gangs.

 

After all, I think that Johnny is a better leader than Billy, same as how I think that Dimitri is a better leader than Mikhail. Billy and Faustin take themselves too seriously as "the leader/the boss", looking at the rest as minor soldiers, and see themselves as invincible, in contrast to how Johnny and Rascalov see it more of a responsibility than a rank, which makes the last two more of ideal leaders in my opinion.

Edited by iiCriminnaaL 49
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  • 2 weeks later...

Only that Rascalov wasn't a leader, he was a snake looking to make profit, not to run an organization, same goes for Bill. Now, Johnny never intended to be the leader, he just wanted his crew whole and safe, hard times made him be the leader in the middle of a war cause by others, while getting in bed with mafia and their own civil war, he was tired of that. Johnny did his best in that chaos. Billy just wanted to make money, he didnt care about his brothers.

 

tl;dr: Billy can suck my dick.

Edited by CreepShow
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/9/2019 at 7:33 PM, CreepShow said:

Only that Rascalov wasn't a leader, he was a snake looking to make profit, not to run an organization, same goes for Bill.

I know that he doesn't have such "loyalty" to the organization he was running, simply because mobs are more of crime "companies" (if that makes sense), which only aim towards profits, whereas motorcycle clubs take brotherhood and freedom into consideration, regardless while making profits or not.

 

But anyway, I just wanted to point out that both Dimitri and Johnny are aware that deals and truces can keep them and their organizations going on for a further time, in contrast to wars and vendettas.

 

That is the type of crime boss to be more feared, because he knows more about what makes his organization last longer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd like to focus the light on the war with the Angels of Death a little.

 

Despite the fact that Johnny doesn't want to turn the war with Angels into a deadly explosion as far as Billy does, a lot of people forget that he eventually supported the idea of re-provoking it since the first storyline mission. Thus, that doesn't make it feel weird for him to hunt them down even in the Gang Warfare minigame.

 

"And you know what? Peace and prosperity be damned!" - Johnny.

 

The idea is, he knows that there's gotta be a limit. You did what you gotta do to "extract" the information you want from Pretty Boy, but you don't have to throw a hammer onto his face. So, similarly, you broke the truce with the Angels, but you don't have to kill their lieutenant to get the war even harder, especially if it was for a silly reason like "crash my party".

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  • 1 year later...
crazyduelist95

Some people say that Billy was better leader for the lost than Johny ....
Well i do not agree with them because Billy wanted blind followers not loyal brothers he  start a gang war with the AOD Got his club involved in serious buisiness on the drug trafficing  and that put the on FIB Radar ....The only good move i can think of that he did was that he make stubs an ally a guy with a lot of political power who could help them with legal problems...Johny on the other hand make piece with the AOD to avoid further bloodshed and tried to do the best he could so the club has the money to pay for billy's lawyers and rent for his house

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crazyduelist95
On 4/16/2014 at 2:00 PM, Orto_Dogge said:

Of course Ray sent his goons to the meeting, it was his deal after all.

In his conversation with Niko before the deal, he instructed him to give Johnny the half. So his intentions are clear. He didn't plan to cheat Johnny.

So your thesis is false. Connection with Boccino was supposed to be good for the club and it's Johnny's fault that it wasn't.

 

Johnny has his firepower focused there too. He brought his whole gang along, including random bikers from Gang Wars.

And it was Johnny, who first reveals his intentions to kill Brian, not the other way around.

 

 

Majority is always about the numbers.

If four people bend over twenty people for some ideas, it doesn't make them majority. It makes them bullies.

Jim, Terry and Clay were personal friends of Johnny. Brian led just fellow members. Because members actually respected Billy.

Jim, Terry and Johnny were outcasts within the club. They were old and thought only about business and money. Biker gangs are not about this. That's why they are make terrible leader, when Billy was gone.

 

That's what the Lost MC about, isn't it? About gang war with Angels of Death.

Johnny's decisions put way more brothers in coffins. And it was not about biker gang, it was about greed.

 

Yes, Billy made a hard and doubtful decision. He could get the money, but decided to get the loyalty within the club instead. That's why he sacrificed heroin for killing Johnny, He didn't want a civil war. Because gang is supposed to have one leader.

 

False.

Triads never done any damage to Lost and Alderney Mob actually destroyed it.

 

Cool.

 

Why don't you say, that Tom Stubbs was a connection made by Leavis, then?

Johnny didn't want to communicate with people like Dave Grossman and people like Stubbs. It was Billy's call to actually affiliate the gang with such individuals. Billy made the right connections. Johnny made wrong.

 

Billy doesn't need to run errands for nobody, it's Johnny's prerogative.

And Stubbs was loyal to Johnny, not for any gang.

 

I know.

But Johnny never avenged his brothers.

Billy sent Johny to meet with Liz to sell the heroin 
Johny did not want  the club to steal the heroin in the first place
Jim proposed to try make a deal with the triads to sell back the heroin but Billy disagreed with him
Brian accused Johny of being a rat saying that Johny betrayed billy and gave info to the feds....But he could not prove it
also on end of a chapter he  openly accused Johny of being a traitor and at the end of this sh*t is cursed he playing dumb and says why you did not help billy???
Johny did rip off Ray boccino and it was not good for the club that is true  but the war with the aod all over again was billy's mistake because he shot an AOD officer for no serious reason just for calling him old men and crushed his party..
Billy lied about who killed Jason to convince the club to attack the AOD Clubhouse and that is a fact on action /reaction

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crazyduelist95
On 4/25/2014 at 7:10 PM, aquahaze2 said:

Really good points and I personally think billy was a better leader then jhonny to.....for the moment at least

 

See after reading this I was reminded of 2 other leaders, Hitler and his opponent. Hitler was a great leader and made Germany a "respectable" country again but only though means that would later destroy it, while his opponent realized that there was no easy way out and that they had to re build from the ground up over a long period of time witch dosent sound to to appealing.

 

Now the guy who posted this pretty much f*cked up his whole argument by getting mad and making stupid points but if you look at the original points they are for the most part true, even some of the ones posted out of rage make sense depending on how you look at it. Billy was greedy and fighting with everybody not doing any good for the club at all, but if he would have killed every AOD, triad, and mobster that wanted to kill him the Lost would have been as big as grove street from the 3-D universe. As unlikely as it sounds it was a all or nothing deal (kind of like hitler) while johnny was alot smarter with things making truces and not ripping everyone off in the process. He ripped ray of but ray was to stupid to not be killed in the end, you cant f*ck a mans girl, disrespect him to his face then make a totally honest business deal, its why he couldn't move up though the ranks of his family, and why people were opposed to him being so high up to begin with, he was actually a lot like billy.

 

In the end Johnny was a better leader in the long run but billy had the chance to be the greatest gang leader gta had ever seen and maybe if Johnny wanted to help take the risk they could have pulled it off. If you look at gta v the thing that made the most sense dident always turn out as the best choice, it was a all or nothing situation but they pulled it off (ending C) and maybe the lost could have to if billy would listen to reason, Johnny would have complied even if he dident agree as seen in the very mission.

 

So it depends on how you look at it, jhonny was either holding the club back or keeping it from being totally destroy while doing both at the same time, of course this all changes if you believe that Jim is alive and was the one who was talking to the F.I.B witch makes hella sense......

Jim never ratted on the club to the FIB
FIB aproached Johny after he try to sell the stollen heroin
the 2 dirty LCPD Detectives who try to squize johny and jim for monthly or yearly payouts where probably being paid by the AOD

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crazyduelist95
On 4/25/2014 at 7:25 PM, Orto_Dogge said:

 

You f*cked up your whole post (which is pretty cool, by the way) by insulting me for no reason. Where exactly did I get mad or make stupid points?

 

Also, your point about Ray is pretty unaccurate. Johnny was always the one, who disrespects people in face, especially the ones who were kind to him, like Ray or Stubbs. Look at the final mission cutscene and his manners with Thomas Stubbs, who arrived in his clubhouse to help him out. The same goes for Johnny's relationships with Ray, where Ray always tried to help him in some way. Million for one mission is pretty good reward even by GTA standarts.

Ray was cool with Johny but he insult Niko bellic on the mission Bad Standing
Also after the club stole the diamonds RAY COULD SEND NIKO AND SOME MUSCLE OF THE FAMILY TO DO THE EXCHANGE IF HE DID NOT TRUST THE CLUB....
I mean he could send niko and some soldier level italian guys to deal with Isaac or Niko alone,besides Niko did prove himself as a guy capable of handling difficult situations more than once to Ray....
You said Ray tried to help Johny in some way always??Really when??by telling him where Brian is hiding??he did that for his own personal gain because he needed the club to end the civil war

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