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PatrickJr.

Official GTAV Whine and Complain Thread

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Max.pain
33 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

If you fall down, your character takes their sweet time getting up yet NPCs can shoot you while laying down

they even managed to downgrade the gunplay somehow. i played gta 5 a few weeks after i played max payne 3 and it felt like a joke. even gta 4 had a better shooting feeling which was the first game to work on that engine(wtf)

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Ryo256
1 hour ago, Max.pain said:

they even managed to downgrade the gunplay somehow. i played gta 5 a few weeks after i played max payne 3 and it felt like a joke. even gta 4 had a better shooting feeling which was the first game to work on that engine(wtf)

Only thing they took from Max Payne 3 are the screen flashes everytime you score a kill it seems.

One thing I really loved about IV was how Niko would do small jumps if you move him sideway while aiming down your weapons. It really felt so realistic and satisfying. I think they didn't include that in Max Payne 3 so it seems V was destined to have even more stuff removed.

 

Edited by Ryo256

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Max.pain
1 hour ago, Ryo256 said:

One thing I really loved about IV was how Niko would do small jumps if you move him sideway while aiming down your weapons. It really felt so realistic and satisfying. I think they didn't include that in Max Payne 3 so it seems V was destined to have even more stuff removed.

can you show me a video niko doing that i don’t know what it is

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Ryo256
2 hours ago, Max.pain said:

can you show me a video niko doing that i don’t know what it is

 

Between 4:34 and 4:37. Niko moving toward the left, will do small hops while holding the gun.

 

 

Edited by Ryo256

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Max.pain

@Ryo256 hmm i see thanks.

4 hours ago, Ryo256 said:

I think they didn't include that in Max Payne 3 so it seems V was destined to have even more stuff removed

i don’t know if you played it but max payne 3 is too different from gta4 and gta5. every animation is almost perfect. the way of shooting can be handled in “run and gun” style with perfect movement which is something gta never had, and you can still hold your pistol or uzi like in gta4/gta5 with two hands if you want, but i wouldn’t suggest it because you’d die in a second in that game if you don’t move, roll or use bullet time.

you can see how different it is here

Edited by Max.pain

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Ryo256
16 hours ago, Max.pain said:

@Ryo256 hmm i see thanks.

i don’t know if you played it but max payne 3 is too different from gta4 and gta5. every animation is almost perfect. the way of shooting can be handled in “run and gun” style with perfect movement which is something gta never had, and you can still hold your pistol or uzi like in gta4/gta5 with two hands if you want, but i wouldn’t suggest it because you’d die in a second in that game if you don’t move, roll or use bullet time.

you can see how different it is here

Yea I played Max Payne 3 back when I was waiting for GTA V to come out. It was an awesome experience but one thing I do notice is that Max's movement do feel artificial sometime particularly when he's moving forward. My guess is that they were animated from scratch or maybe were motion captured but then speeded up (same case with V it seems). In GTA IV, the animation kinda had raw motion captured going on right there. That's why I felt I was moving so realistically in that game.

Still Max Payne 3's movements not feeling completely natural is fine because it wasn't meant to be exactly an immersive game but rather a very good shooter with very strong mechanics. Games like GTA do aim for immersion. V seems to poorly copy Max Payne 3's basic animations without including any of the mechanics from that game. Only thing that feels polished in V compared to Max Payne 3's animations is when the protagonists walk forward.

 

 

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Max.pain

@Ryo256 hmmm i always felt max payne 3 had the best and most realistic movement ever, if we compare it to gta 4, gta 4 is clunky as hell, niko is moving to the direction he wants instead of where we want. especially if you try to get in a car at some parts it’s a mess

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Ryo256
Just now, Max.pain said:

@Ryo256 hmmm i always felt max payne 3 had the best and most realistic movement ever, if we compare it to gta 4, gta 4 is clunky as hell, niko is moving to the direction he wants instead of where we want. especially if you try to get in a car at some parts it’s a mess

Yeah, because they tried to put raw motion captured animations in without any editing. They feel real, like Niko actually feels like he has weight to his body, but sometime they don't incorporate well in areas where there's any scripting involved e.g animations like throwing a punch looks very artificial in IV.

Max Payne 3 obviously has way more scripting involved due to its awesome mechanics so that's why Max's movement isn't completely perfect. They had to speed them up sometime in order to have responsive gameplay.

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Max.pain

@Ryo256 i don’t know how exactly this animation making thing works but it’s a mess in gta 4 and whatever they did, it doesn’t explain niko hanging around the car for 10 seconds instead of getting in it. it’s of course a matter of opinion to like or not like the movement of max payne 3 but i think they are perfect and there are just a few very very little problems.

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Ryo256
1 minute ago, Max.pain said:

@Ryo256 i don’t know how exactly this animation making thing works but it’s a mess in gta 4 and whatever they did, it doesn’t explain niko hanging around the car for 10 seconds instead of getting in it. it’s of course a matter of opinion to like or not like the movement of max payne 3 but i think they are perfect and there are just a few very very little problems.

I understand that. I was actually looking forward to GTA V having Max Payne 3's movements anyway.

 

Only thing I may change in them is to add some weight to them and they would be perfect for an open world experience IMO.

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Max.pain
1 minute ago, Ryo256 said:

add some weight to them and they would be perfect for an open world experience

buy why weight, they are healthy guys and it’s not supposed to be realistic, how realistic will it be at its max. when you have that special ability bar

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Ryo256
Just now, Max.pain said:

buy why weight, they are healthy guys and it’s not supposed to be realistic, how realistic will it be at its max. when you have that special ability bar

Well some of Max's animations already feel like they have weight to them e.g like when he rolls, fall down, fires his gun while standing still or when he stands up. Very realistic and immersive. Just need more of that.

 

But compared to when he's moving forward or when holding a gun in his second hand, he is moving like a terminator robot. That's the only thing that needs a little tweaking IMO.

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Max.pain
1 minute ago, Ryo256 said:

he is moving like a terminator robot

this is exactly why this game is super fun. it has the most unrealistic gunplay ever which makes it the most fun gunplay ever. did you know you can reaload faster in slowmotion? yes “it is nonsense but fun”. from the start already i always tought this game is very robotic in a lot of ways which are “soundtrack, keep reloading when max rolls, reload in the air, movement, aimming, reloading and slowmotion in shootdodge are some of the most OP things ever made in a videogame, max is almost 2x faster than other characters in bullet time which makes enemies’ accuary zero if you move and roll to the right direction, ragdolls slightly effects the player and much more...” i’m too lazy to write. to me these all make the game super fun and unique. i understand and respect it if you choose realistic gameplay instead of OTT like this one’s. also remember max payne 3 came out in 2012 and had almost like the best of any technical design at the time, it still holds up better than most games in terms of shooting and movement which are what the game aimmed for and did right.

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Ryo256
15 minutes ago, Max.pain said:

this is exactly why this game is super fun. it has the most unrealistic gunplay ever which makes it the most fun gunplay ever. did you know you can reaload faster in slowmotion? yes “it is nonsense but fun”. from the start already i always tought this game is very robotic in a lot of ways which are “soundtrack, keep reloading when max rolls, reload in the air, movement, aimming, reloading and slowmotion in shootdodge are some of the most OP things ever made in a videogame, max is almost 2x faster than other characters in bullet time which makes enemies’ accuary zero if you move and roll to the right direction, ragdolls slightly effects the player and much more...” i’m too lazy to write. to me these all make the game super fun and unique. i understand and respect it if you choose realistic gameplay instead of OTT like this one’s. also remember max payne 3 came out in 2012 and had almost like the best of any technical design at the time, it still holds up better than most games in terms of shooting and movement which are what the game aimmed for and did right.

Yeah I understand what you're saying. Max Payne 3's had a direction to be a fun shooter and it does exactly that. This is why I stated that some of its animations aren't realistic because it's not aiming to be a realistic immersive game, it's meant to be an engaging shooter and it does so amazingly. 

However GTA V's direction wasn't just to be a shooter but to be an immersive experience as well just like its predecessors were. This is why we end up with a shooting system that neither satisfy people who prefer realism or fun because V tried to halfheartedly mash them together. It needed to pick one direction (realism or fun) and try to polish around that.
 

Edited by Ryo256

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Max.pain
21 hours ago, Ryo256 said:

However GTA V's direction wasn't just to be a shooter but to be an immersive experience as well just like its predecessors were. This is why we end up with a shooting system that neither satisfy people who prefer realism or fun because V tried to halfheartedly mash them together. It needed to pick one direction (realism or fun) and try to polish around that.

it’s not like it is realistic or something it’s just downgraded. there is no excuse for such downgraded mechanics

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Dryspace
10 hours ago, Max.pain said:

there is no excuse for such downgraded mechanics

I've explained (I don't recall in which thread at the moment) that the downgrade in character/vehicle physics and overall gameplay mechanics was absolutely a necessity--if Rockstar was going to achieve the increase in visual realism over IV that they wanted.

 

Both IV and V were designed for the same hardware: the 360/PS3, which means both games had exactly the same processing power available. Programming tricks only go so far. The fact is that if Rockstar had kept the physical/gameplay realism of IV--or better yet increased it--the overall visual quality of GTAV would have been the same or less than GTAIV.

 

And despite the old line about "I care more about gameplay than graphics", most console players would not have reacted well to that.

Edited by Dryspace

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Max.pain
21 minutes ago, Dryspace said:

Both IV and V were designed for the same hardware: the 360/PS3, which means both games had exactly the same processing power available.

there are mods for xbox360/ps3 that returns the old euphoria i’ve watched some videos and the game was running good. even if it weren’t, that still doesn’t explain rockstar didn’t bother changing the euphoria to old version on ps4/xbox1. like i said there is no excuse, never will be

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Dryspace
53 minutes ago, Max.pain said:

there are mods for xbox360/ps3 that returns the old euphoria i’ve watched some videos and the game was running good. even if it weren’t, that still doesn’t explain rockstar didn’t bother changing the euphoria to old version on ps4/xbox1. like i said there is no excuse, never will be

No, you said that there is no excuse why that aspect was downgraded on GTAV, and I explained exactly why it was downgraded. You didn't say anything about the XBox One/PS4 release.

 

The reason they didn't change anything for the upgraded versions is that those things are matters of fundamental gameplay, and not just graphical enhancements. Even if the consoles could have handled such upgrades at decent performance (I don't know) it would have required a lot of alpha and beta testing, because as I said, those things affect the gameplay itself. They aren't things that can just be turned off and on.

 

For my part, I wish they would have put forth the effort, at least on the PC version.

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Max.pain

@Dryspace we won’t change our opinions so i guess it’s best to finish the conversation...

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Dryspace
1 minute ago, Max.pain said:

@Dryspace we won’t change our opinions so i guess it’s best to finish the conversation...

I change my opinions all the time, when I become aware of new information. If what you mean is that you can't offer any evidence for why I'm wrong, but want to believe I'm wrong anyway....then by all means carry on, my wayward son.

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Max.pain
On 9/3/2019 at 11:47 PM, Dryspace said:

If what you mean is that you can't offer any evidence for why I'm wrong,

i said opinions, this isn’t about being wrong, i never tried to prove you’re wrong, all i mean is whatever you said to me about game design and physics won’t change my opinion, if having an opinion is wrong i don’t know about that

Edited by Max.pain
wrong spelling

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Cheatz/Trickz
20 hours ago, Dryspace said:

I've explained (I don't recall in which thread at the moment) that the downgrade in character/vehicle physics and overall gameplay mechanics was absolutely a necessity--if Rockstar was going to achieve the increase in visual realism over IV that they wanted.

 

Both IV and V were designed for the same hardware: the 360/PS3, which means both games had exactly the same processing power available. Programming tricks only go so far. The fact is that if Rockstar had kept the physical/gameplay realism of IV--or better yet increased it--the overall visual quality of GTAV would have been the same or less than GTAIV.

 

And despite the old line about "I care more about gameplay than graphics", most console players would not have reacted well to that.

 

I get this, developers have to make the best of what’s available, which is why i’ve always said that GTA V on PS3 and 360 is a great technical achievement. Rockstar cleverly cut the corners that didn’t exactly harm the gameplay, it just made it very vanilla and not exceptional or stand out. You’d only really notice it if you were into IV and appreciated that game’s attempts to be exceptional and stand out. Love or hate IV, it’s not vanilla or standard or basic or any of those things, every facet of it has an intent beyond simply working properly. You aim or fire a gun in IV, or move while aiming, Rockstar wanted those actions to feel weighty and realistic. In V, Rockstar settled for simply having the mere minimum; press aim and your character aims, move the stick and your character moves, it works, job done. Beyond these functions are details like making it feel like the character just lifted up a heavy rifle and aimed it, and when shooting it looks like the character is controlling the weapons’s kick. This kind of attention to detail is inserted into everything in IV, it’s all tuned to a particular vision Rockstar had for the game. In V, it’s just tuned to conform with the mere basics of open world games and as a result it all feels standard and basic, like a jack of all trades master of none type situation. 

 

Not that Rockstar had no ambition for V, I think their ambitions were just misdirected. We know they were limited by the tech and had to make sacrifices to IV’s amazing details but I question whether this would’ve been as necessary if they were not so focused on pointless systems like having three protagonists and a switch mechanic (I highly doubt we’ll see it again). It’s not like it brings anything to the game really. Where IV struck a good balance of being niche whilst simultaneously remaining fun and accessible, V went overboard with the accessible part. Many if not all of IV’s criticisms were directed at its perceived regression from SA’s gameplay (lack of planes, reduced customisation and so on) and Rockstar simply went the wrong way about addressing these things. They don’t keep IV’s best parts and make a game that builds on it, they strip it down to the bone and throw in some obligatory haircuts and tattoos. They don’t increase the map size whilst also keeping the detail of IV, they just stick a load of irrelevant space on the map so that they can justify planes. “But they had to! GTA V is bigger in every way than IV so they had to make these sacrifices!”...well my answer to that is this: they should not have tried to squeeze it onto last gen.

 

Being Rockstar and being GTA they can get away with a subpar game and still have it be praised to high heaven, but regardless of V’s reception its problems are not overlooked. The longer it’s been out the more noticeable it became how much it regressed. Without Online, V would be swiftly forgotten about and not really remembered because it simply isn’t very remarkable. Online is keeping it alive obviously, and even that’s a matter of circumstance and good timing, not an indication of V’s quality as a game. It just released when online gaming was booming. At the end of the day V is still a well made game even if all it does is the bare minimum. I still think Rockstar should’ve just waited until PS4 and X1 so that they could’ve made a true sequel to GTA IV that included all the best aspects of that game along with the ambitions of V, that would’ve been preferable to the confused half IV sequel half SA sequel that doesn’t really know which direction it’s facing. 

Edited by Cheatz/Trickz

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B Dawg

Gutting gameplay for stupid visual quality was the worst mistake they did.

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Dryspace
2 hours ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:

well my answer to that is this: they should not have tried to squeeze it onto last gen...I still think Rockstar should’ve just waited until PS4 and X1 so that they could’ve made a true sequel to GTA IV that included all the best aspects of that game along with the ambitions of V.

I've thought about this before, and I absolutely agree. I think Rockstar made a huge mistake.

 

I understand that when they started on V, they probably (and understandably) had no idea that the generation would end up being the first to last more than 5 years, and had originally planned on much better HW. But they ended up releasing right before the new consoles released.

 

The only argument a person can make in this case is, "But it takes a while for new consoles to be adopted, so they had to release for the 360/PS3!" And I say poppycock. In this case, poppycock. GTAV was such an anticipated game, that if the new consoles had released with GTAV ready to go, new console adoption would have skyrocketed compared to the norm.

 

It has to be understood that a big reason why new consoles aren't adopted right away by most people is simply because there aren't any really great games right away. A new console almost never releases with a truly "killer app". But if the only way to play GTAV was to buy a One or PS4, I guarantee that the majority of console users would have went right out and picked one up. Sure, sales of GTAV would be somewhat less at first than they were for the 360/PS3 release, but that doesn't matter for two reasons: 1. Because eventually everyone would end up with the new console, and 2. The price of GTAV didn't drop for a long time, so even if a person took a year or two to go next-gen, Rockstar wouldn't have lost any money on the sale.

 

I really think they made a mistake, and it is absolutely true that GTAV suffered tremendously for it. Even though I think GTAV is overall a good game, a person who doesn't understand the underlying technological issues doesn't understand how much better the game could have been, especially in the aspect that matters most, and the one that I think is the worst: Gameplay.

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ThatKyloRenGuy

It’s really been awhile since I posted in here, especially because me (and my boss, SonOfLiberty) have been toning it down on GTA V, much to the appreciation of GTA V fans. However, I’ll still post in here every once in a blue moon just for old times sake. :)

 

Shoving that aside, comparing the storyline and characters of IV and EFLC is sorta like comparing Disney World, Universal Studios, and Sea World to Six Flags.

 

IV = Disney World, because it’s such a great experience and everything is detailed to the max, plus it seems as if everything is so much bigger.

TLAD = Universal Studios, for pretty much the same reasons listed above, only to a slightly lesser extent.

TBOGT = Sea World, because it’s sort of a let down from the first two but the good experience overall outweighs the negative experience.

V = Six Flags, because it’s kind of an armpit compared to the other three. However, it still has its charm and experience. Also, saying it’s not as good of an experience as the first three really isn’t saying much considering they’re just too incredible to miss.

 

Just analogies and my opinion, people. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited by ThatKyloRenGuy

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DownInTheHole

I always felt that the pacing of this game was kinda off compared to the other games tbh

Edited by DownInTheHole

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Max.pain

graphics are overrated. it seems some people even forgot the other games in the series because of this game’s graphics. everyone admits the game has good graphics, but forgetting the other elements and focusing on graphics are ridiculous.

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ATP2555

You know what pisses me off? People who defend the removal of crouching with stuff like, "Why do you need to crouch in a video game?" 

 

No doubt members of Generation X who never played the older GTAs, or older players that just pull garbage like that out of their ass to defend dear old R*.

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El Penguin Bobo
2 hours ago, ATP2555 said:

People who defend the removal of crouching with stuff like, "Why do you need to crouch in a video game?" 

I just never found it nessacary as I never really used it much even in VC or IV.

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iiCriminnaaL 49
4 hours ago, ATP2555 said:

You know what pisses me off? People who defend the removal of crouching with stuff like, "Why do you need to crouch in a video game?" 

 

I'd rather have the ability to crouch than stealth, diving underwater, planes and sh*tload of customization options.

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