Are Rednecks a problem where you live?

[GunWrath]

Myron confirmed as another GW Groupie.

 

Problem here is.. the term redneck is loosely based on unknown facts and stereotyping. Just because someone has a southern accent doesn't label them a redneck as many here tend to think so and around the world. People can't choose where they'll be born or how they're raised but a southern accent is just that, an accent. The same is said about northerners, in which most call them yankee. I for one, don't say yankee, I just say northerner. One of my closest friends is from Wisconsin, believe me, him and I joked with each other over the years. His accent versus mine, things of that nature. No matter where we came from, we both enjoyed the same things.

 

So because someone wants to fly a confederate flag, kick their camoflauge hat up, chew tobacco, live in trailers doesn't mean they're a redneck, just another person believing in something different than yourselves and making the most with what they have. Don't be so quick to judge others, though I agree that there are a lot of younger kids and teens out there that try and act more southern by developing a strong accent or wearing camo or using rebel flags to make them seem more devoted to the south becaue down here, a lot of the women like a good country boy but when in actuality, they have no idea or know what they're doing.

 

My high school here are the Rebels, so you can imagine the amount of flags you see flying on trucks and cars around here but we don't point fingers and say 'Look, a redneck!', just a student with school pride or trying to be 'cool'.

[WBaker]

If by personal freedom you mean the right to own human beings, and opposition to tyranny you mean the right to discriminate without the government interfering, then you are absolutely correct.

No, I did not mean that.

 

Slavery was actually an incidental issue in the civil war. The primary conflict was over states rights vs. a strong federal government.

 

Seeing how many people liked your post, along with some of the other comments posted here, I wonder what kind of piss poor education in history ya'll have had.

Edited March 27, 2014 by WBaker

[johnson.]

french canadians are kind of like french rednecks and since you're asking, they are a problem.

[Mr. House]

 

If by personal freedom you mean the right to own human beings, and opposition to tyranny you mean the right to discriminate without the government interfering, then you are absolutely correct.

No, I did not mean that.

 

Slavery was actually an incidental issue in the civil war.

 

No it really wasn't.

 

You can cut whatever crap you want and suggest bad education, but acting the civil war was at its core anything more than a split between slave owning states and free states says much more about you than anyone else or their education.

[WBaker]

 

 

If by personal freedom you mean the right to own human beings, and opposition to tyranny you mean the right to discriminate without the government interfering, then you are absolutely correct.

No, I did not mean that.

 

Slavery was actually an incidental issue in the civil war.

 

No it really wasn't.

 

You can cut whatever crap you want and suggest bad education, but acting the civil war was at its core anything more than a split between slave owning states and free states says much more about you than anyone else or their education.

 

You are poorly educated, a common problem with bigots. Let me help.

 

 

Sometimes, Loewen said, the North is mythologized as going to war to free the slaves. That's more bad history, Loewen said: "The North went to war to hold the union together."

 

Pres. Abraham Lincoln was personally against slavery, but in his first inaugural, he made it clear that placating the Southern states was more important. Quoting himself in other speeches, he said, "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." [Read: The Best Inaugural Addresses Ever]

 

Abolitionism grew in the Union army as soldiers saw slaves flocking to them for freedom, contradicting myths that slavery was the appropriate position for African-Americans, Loewen said. But it wasn't until the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 — which left slavery intact in border states that hadn't seceded — that ending Confederate slavery became an official Union aim.

http://www.livescience.com/18863-civil-war-myths.html

 

Note that the Civil War started in 1861 and the Emancipation Proclamation happened in 1863.

Edited March 27, 2014 by WBaker

[gtamann123]

Nope and thank god

 

In Minnesota btw

Where in MN? Because I have lived in both the rural areas and the urban of MN and there are quite a few rednecks in this state. Like the type that go to school in camo or blaze orange even though its nowhere near Hunting season. Or drive around in a Jacked up truck and chew tobacco even though they live in the suburbs. Or claim to be a fan of country music but have never heard of Waylon.

[Max]

 

If by personal freedom you mean the right to own human beings, and opposition to tyranny you mean the right to discriminate without the government interfering, then you are absolutely correct.

No, I did not mean that.

 

Slavery was actually an incidental issue in the civil war. The primary conflict was over states rights vs. a strong federal government.

 

Seeing how many people liked your post, along with some of the other comments posted here, I wonder what kind of piss poor education in history ya'll have had.

Piss poor education? Speak for yourself buddy, I studied the build up to the American Civil war for a whole year at University and I can tell you that slavery was absolutely not incidental to the conflict. Yes, states rights were a factor, but the point was they wanted to protect southern state's right to organise their economy as they saw fit. Which, in this case was founded on slavery. The North went to war to protect the union when abolition wasn't an official policy, but the South went to war to protect their 'right' to slavery which they felt would eventually be challenged by Lincoln in his presidency.

 

The South had a largely agrarian economy which necessitated slavery, they saw the owning of slaves to be a right. When the North attempted to prohibit the owning of slaves it was seen as a significant threat to their rights and their economic stability. States rights cannot be separated from the issue of slavery in anti-bellum America.

 

You can try and spin it how you want, but the truth is the Confederate flag is founded upon brutality and oppression of a minority at a personal level and Freedom for the white and the wealth from the government. This, in my opinion, makes it a hateful symbol.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Max

[Wayne Daniels]

We sort of have rednecks here, we call them bogans and they put Chevrolet badges on their Holdens.

[universetwisters]

We sort of have rednecks here, we call them bogans and they put Chevrolet badges on their Holdens.

 

Is there a reason they do that? I heard that's a somewhat common practice in Australia, but I never got my head around as to why they do that. It's like me sticking an Opel badge on my Ford.

[WBaker]

 

 

If by personal freedom you mean the right to own human beings, and opposition to tyranny you mean the right to discriminate without the government interfering, then you are absolutely correct.

No, I did not mean that.

 

Slavery was actually an incidental issue in the civil war. The primary conflict was over states rights vs. a strong federal government.

 

Seeing how many people liked your post, along with some of the other comments posted here, I wonder what kind of piss poor education in history ya'll have had.

 

Piss poor education? Speak for yourself buddy, I studied the build up to the American Civil war for a whole year at University

 

-a lot snipped, as I quoted largely to send a notification-

 

Length and quality are not mutually inclusive unless we are speaking of cocks. US History is a mandatory class I have taken in primary school as well as college. The US civil war gets a lot of attention.

 

The issue of slavery certainly fits under the umbrella of the issue of state's rights, the primary cause of the US civil war, making slavery incidental. Lincoln was willing to compromise on slavery in order to preserve the Union, a stance was not taken on slavery until two years into the war, and the Emancipation Proclamation allowed slavery in border states that did not secede.

 

After the war, there was no rush to free slaves or establish equality, even in the North. It took eight years before most slaves in Texas knew they were free. Equality, and it's still not perfect obviously, was largely denied until the civil rights movement a hundred years later. That speaks volumes against slavery being a primary cause. Slavery was just a convenient banner to bear to garner support and as a way to strike at the south. The US civil war was a power play. This was not war of morality. There was no sudden great support for the black man after slavery was abolished.

 

 

You can try and spin it how you want, but the truth is the Confederate flag is founded upon brutality and oppression of a minority at a personal level and Freedom for the white and the wealth from the government. This, in my opinion, makes it a hateful symbol.

Both the North and the South sought freedom and wealth for the white male and were unfriendly towards minorities. The Union flag could be seen as a hateful symbol for the same reasons.

Edited March 27, 2014 by WBaker

[Doc Rikowski]

^

Well the guy you quoted and the link you posted both contradict you.

Myth number 4 is: "The Civil War wasn't about slavery"

 

And: The most widespread myth is also the most basic. Across America, 60 percent to 75 percent of high-school history teachers believe and teach that the South seceded for state's rights, said Jim Loewen, author of "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" (Touchstone, 1996) and co-editor of "The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader: The 'Great Truth' about the 'Lost Cause'" (University Press of Mississippi, 2010).

 

"It's complete B.S.," Loewen told LiveScience. "And by B.S., I mean 'bad scholarship.'"

[Max]

Except it was flown by the side who eventually emancipated slaves nationwide and had abolished slavery since in practice since 1804, so no. A black man in mid-19th Century America had a far better time in the north than the south I can promise you.

 

Of course racist attitudes still prevailed across America but there was an understanding among Northern leaders that slavery was unacceptable and morally unsustainable in the modern world. While war could still be avoided Lincoln was willing to compromise in the interests of unity but once war had begun, slavery, which was synonymous with State rights, was a central issue. Southern states, which the Confederate flag represented saw slavery as a central tenant of their economy and social structure and therefore would never have made moves to abolish it and would have kept an archaic and barbaric status quo indefinitely.The Confederate flag represents your right to freedom from government tyranny in favour of racial tyranny.

 

I find it laughable that you argue that slavery, seen as a fundamental state right in the south is somehow incidental to 'states rights' surely the two are so closely intertwined that you cannot dismiss slavery as incidental?

 

Furthermore, of course news about the abolition of slavery to take effect in rural southern areas. You cannot expect such a fundamental shift in culture and social structure to happen over night. This was not a war of conquest in which Northern rule was gradually imposed on all Southern areas. Therefore once the North had won it took years for central government to dismantle a system of human trade and institutional racism which was so deeply entrenched in the fabric of the South that, as you said, took over 100 years before a Civil rights movement could be attempted and which still affects race relations to this day.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Max

[Mr. House]

 

 

 

If by personal freedom you mean the right to own human beings, and opposition to tyranny you mean the right to discriminate without the government interfering, then you are absolutely correct.

No, I did not mean that.

 

Slavery was actually an incidental issue in the civil war.

 

No it really wasn't.

 

You can cut whatever crap you want and suggest bad education, but acting the civil war was at its core anything more than a split between slave owning states and free states says much more about you than anyone else or their education.

 

You are poorly educated, a common problem with bigots. Let me help.

 

Sometimes, Loewen said, the North is mythologized as going to war to free the slaves. That's more bad history, Loewen said: "The North went to war to hold the union together."

 

Pres. Abraham Lincoln was personally against slavery, but in his first inaugural, he made it clear that placating the Southern states was more important. Quoting himself in other speeches, he said, "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." [Read: The Best Inaugural Addresses Ever]

 

Abolitionism grew in the Union army as soldiers saw slaves flocking to them for freedom, contradicting myths that slavery was the appropriate position for African-Americans, Loewen said. But it wasn't until the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 — which left slavery intact in border states that hadn't seceded — that ending Confederate slavery became an official Union aim.

http://www.livescience.com/18863-civil-war-myths.html

 

Note that the Civil War started in 1861 and the Emancipation Proclamation happened in 1863.

 

I genuinely can't believe that you are so f*cking dumb that you would link a story that says "6 civil war myths busted" and one of those myths be AND I QUOTE "The Civil War wasn't about slavery."

 

You are so stupid that it's not even funny.

[WBaker]

I'm not dismissing anything by saying incidental, I do feel the primary cause was states rights and slavery was secondary to that and indeed a convenient issue to take hold of. If abolition was a primary goal the war wasn't successful until the system of slavery was actually dismantled. It was considered ended as soon as secession was effectively ended. How could a system of slavery be so distasteful but short of ending the legal standing nothing much else was done to help the people affected? That half-measure lends itself to the idea that once the issue of the plight of black men and women was no longer useful to the powers-that-be it was largely dropped.

 

Good catch Doc, I largely agree with that author but disagree on this point. The plantation owners were in power, I would expect their documents to be primarily concerned with slavery. I don't think the common people, who were largely not slave owners, would be compelled to protect the interests of the 1% (I'm using that loosely in an anachronistic sense, not an actual figure) without the rallying cry of protecting freedom. In that sense, it's quite like modern war where there is a public reason why we are at war and often several complex reasons why different factions want war.

 

@Myron: I answered that above. You're just repeating what Doc pointed out.

Edited March 27, 2014 by WBaker

[Mr. House]

You're an idiot.

[Max]

How could a system of slavery be so distasteful but short of ending the legal standing nothing much else was done to help the people affected? That half-measure lends itself to the idea that once the issue of the plight of black men and women was no longer useful to the powers-that-be it was largely dropped.

 

 

Well as I said, it takes a long time for central legislation to filter down to Bumf*ckNowhere, Texas and the country was so weakened by the war and the government so far geographically removed from much of the south that it lacked the coercive force necessary to enforce the abolition immediately. You can't change attitudes and practices over night, no matter how good your intentions. As we have seen, 150 years later, the scars of the war and the racial divides are still evident. Edited March 27, 2014 by Max

[WBaker]

That's practically a compliment coming from you Myron.

 

I did resort to personal snipes myself, and for that I apologize to everyone. I am not a fan of a thread about rednecks and I guess I got miffed. Seeing Myron do the same makes me feel downright embarassed for being guilty of it.

 

@Max, That's a good point. I still don't agree with slavery being a primary cause but this is a complex issue and honestly, I don't have anything else to add at the moment.

Edited March 27, 2014 by WBaker

[Mr. House]

That's practically a compliment coming from you Myron.

 

I did resort to personal snipes myself, and for that I apologize to everyone. I am not a fan of a thread about rednecks and I guess I got miffed. Seeing Myron do the same makes me feel downright embarassed for being guilty of it.

 

@Max, That's a good point. I still don't agree with slavery being a primary cause but this is a complex issue and honestly, I don't have anything else to add at the moment.

That wasn't a personal snipe, I genuinely think you have a problem in the information processing department. Frankly after making the laughable mistake of using source material that defeats your own point, I really turned off all hope for you having anything valid to say. Not to mention calling me a bigot for mocking GunWrath and using the word hick. That's not how bigotry works. I'll tell you how Bigotry does work though; blaming the dejected minorities of a society for its inherent problems and your daily issues.

 

You and GunWrath can think whatever you want about why the Civil War and make as many crypto-racist posts as you want, but blaming the education system for teaching what is essentially the most factually correct version just because it doesn't fit your viewpoint is arrogant to say the least.

 

Making the point that 'of course the main documents relate to slavery blah blah blah but it's not representative of the every day 1800s citizen' is preposterous. I understand that your views on society and the black man are stuck in that period, but that doesn't make you a representative of that era.

[WBaker]

 

That's practically a compliment coming from you Myron.

 

I did resort to personal snipes myself, and for that I apologize to everyone. I am not a fan of a thread about rednecks and I guess I got miffed. Seeing Myron do the same makes me feel downright embarassed for being guilty of it.

 

@Max, That's a good point. I still don't agree with slavery being a primary cause but this is a complex issue and honestly, I don't have anything else to add at the moment.

That wasn't a personal snipe, I genuinely think you have a problem in the information processing department. Frankly after making the laughable mistake of using source material that defeats your own point

 

Reading comprehension is lacking in this one. Re-read what I wrote about that.

 

I did ask a civil war buff to look this thread over and he said that slavery as a primary cause was a liberal dream. I asked him how to prove my argument and he said "citations, citations, citations." Frankly, that is more effort than I'm willing to put forth.

Edited March 27, 2014 by WBaker

[Mr. House]

 

 

That's practically a compliment coming from you Myron.

 

I did resort to personal snipes myself, and for that I apologize to everyone. I am not a fan of a thread about rednecks and I guess I got miffed. Seeing Myron do the same makes me feel downright embarassed for being guilty of it.

 

@Max, That's a good point. I still don't agree with slavery being a primary cause but this is a complex issue and honestly, I don't have anything else to add at the moment.

That wasn't a personal snipe, I genuinely think you have a problem in the information processing department. Frankly after making the laughable mistake of using source material that defeats your own point

 

Reading comprehension is lacking in this one. Re-read what I wrote about that.

 

I did ask a civil war buff to look this thread over and he said that slavery as a primary cause was a liberal dream. I asked him how to prove my argument and he said "citations, citations, citations." Frankly, that is more effort than I'm willing to put forth.

 

If you looked at the other 2/3rds of my post you will notice I addressed that.

 

Also "civil war buff" "liberal dream"

 

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah I'm going to, how shall I say this? Not give a flying f*ck about some crazy fantasist's stupid opinion. As for citations, well you SHOULD have learned this sh*t in school, but I'm guessing that's all a liberal lie too.

 

As you, GunWrath and every other hillbilly seem to get this mistaken here, I'm not by any means a "liberal." Not even close.

[Stig]

I did ask a civil war buff to look this thread over

 

Just stop.

 

Just f*cking stop.

[bread]

 

 

That's practically a compliment coming from you Myron.

 

I did resort to personal snipes myself, and for that I apologize to everyone. I am not a fan of a thread about rednecks and I guess I got miffed. Seeing Myron do the same makes me feel downright embarassed for being guilty of it.

 

@Max, That's a good point. I still don't agree with slavery being a primary cause but this is a complex issue and honestly, I don't have anything else to add at the moment.

That wasn't a personal snipe, I genuinely think you have a problem in the information processing department. Frankly after making the laughable mistake of using source material that defeats your own point

 

Reading comprehension is lacking in this one. Re-read what I wrote about that.

 

I did ask a civil war buff to look this thread over and he said that slavery as a primary cause was a liberal dream. I asked him how to prove my argument and he said "citations, citations, citations." Frankly, that is more effort than I'm willing to put forth.

 

[GunWrath]

Myron, you sure do have a purty mouth on you, boy.

[Stig]

Myron, you sure do have a purty mouth on you, boy.

 

 

Just stop.

 

Just f*cking stop.

[GunWrath]

Stig, I bet you can squeal like a pig.

[Voodoo]

Shaddap. Back on topic.

 

Actually, this topic has jumped the ditch.

 

Edited March 27, 2014 by Voodoo