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darthYENIK

Gotham the Batman prequel TV show

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IDredMan

My faith is not with the casting in this one.

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Zepren

While I liked the trailer, I'm kind of disappointed that the Wayne Murders are getting so much prominence. I'm far more interested in how the villains came to be and how they were policed before Batman. We've seen the Wayne Murders so many times, its the most overplayed part of Batman's origin. It also makes me worry about season 2. So we're probably gonna solve that in one season, what's young Bruce Wayne gonna do after that? Follow around Jim Gordon, hangout with Selina Kyle and be the damsel in distress here and there? Seems like a waste to me.

 

Either way, I'm just speculating. Looks like I'll only be paying attention half the time. Unless the Bruce Wayne narrative is interesting (which it doesn't look like it will be). In short, maybe it was a bad idea including Bruce Wayne. It's going to get really weighed down by the whole "This kid is going to be Batman, he's really important even though there's no reason for him to be at the moment. Freaking Batman, man!".

 

Though I guess it would be really hard to sell a network on a TV show based in the Batman universe without Batman but still, have some balls.

 

Edit: Having said all this, I like the casting for Lil' B Wayne.

Edited by Zepren

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darthYENIK

I'm so f*cking hyped on this show. Every time there is a commercial, I watch, no matter how many times I see it. I've never been this excited for a tv show. Not for Arrow. Not for Agents of SHIELD. Not for Flash, even.

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J-B

I just can't get into the idea of this show. It feels like it's just gonna be Law & Order: Gotham.

 

I would have killed for an in-depth series based on Batman's first 2-3 years, with flashbacks to his childhood.

 

I feel like this show only exists because DC/WB didn't want to actually let them use Batman.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not at least I'll still have Arrow & The Flash.

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darthYENIK

This show is going to have the same problem that Agents of SHIELD had. People assume, despite constantly being told otherwise, that this show is going to be one thing, when it's really going to be exactly what it looks like. That isn't a bad thing. Comic readers know how engaging a good Jim Gordon story is. Him and Batman fight the same fight, just in different ways. I actually think it is not the best idea to include characters like Pamela Isley and Edward Nygma, because their story shouldn't start really until Batman appears. Oswald Cobblepot on the other hand is great, because his arc is supposed to take him from small time underboss to the criminal kingpin of Gotham. Selina Kyle is good because she has a pretty complex beginning. She's not just a reaction to Batman, like other characters. This Fish Mooney character on the other hand. I don't get it. I'd rather see Carmine Falcone or even Roman Sionis than a new character.

 

All that said, I'd rather see Kevin Smith and Paul Dini's "Shadow of the Bat" that was drawn out in an episode of Smith's podcast "Fatman on Batman" where they watched

for Batman: Arkham Origins. It was basically Batman meets Hogwarts. Bruce Wayne goes to boarding school after his parents are killed, and learns to become the world's greatest detective. The school would also have characters like Catwoman, and Riddler, and Penguin would be his roommate. And it would track his life, from the moment of his parent's death to the day he goes off to train with the League of Assassins. Basically I guess, "Smallville" for Batman.

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darthYENIK

A bit late, but this was shown at SDCC, I think...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S_bodvIBG4

 

They need to stop showing so much of Bruce. If this show is going to be like they keep saying it is going to be like, then Bruce isn't going to make many appearances, and people are going to get their hopes up.

 

Some more on Fish Mooney...

http://youtu.be/BVxjEpZFmAQ

Edited by darthYENIK

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darthYENIK

Just a reminder, series premiere is tonight on Fox.

 

I am excited.

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Audiophile

I'll be watching it tomorrow after I get home from my lecture.

 

Excited. Hope it's good.

 

Faith, I have it.

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IDredMan

Please don't suck ...Please.

I'm going in with low expectations ...But I want this to be good.

 

It's already online, not sure if watching it on a computer screen will ruin it.

But I really don't want this to suck ...

 

 

(Anything below this is my reaction, which is hopefully after I watch it.)

 

 

Alright, here it is ...Just finished watching.

 

Non-Spoilery thoughts:

The show started on a very low note. The first 20 minutes made me wanna cry. I went in with low expectations and even then I still thought the first 15 minutes were absolute garbage. The Wayne family murder was so f*cking rushed, and Gordon's introduction was so bad... I was so close to instantly giving up on the show.

 

The mid part of the show was bumpy. Not rollercoaster-level where it's either the best or the worst. Just good parts and bad parts.

 

The ending was freaking awesome... I'm loving this show, just for that ending.

 

Spoilery thoughts. Oh teh noes.

 

 

 

The intro was really rushed. They wanted to give off the feeling that Gotham was a sh*thole filled to the brim with crime. But they overdid it. They just showed catwoman, Wayne's parents and that's it... At least for the first 15 minutes AKA The first impression, which they failed on. If you ask me, it should have been random montages of casual crimes that people are used to and just go along with, followed by the milk & Wallet scene of Catwoman (Also the only scene she appears in, since she's so f*cking forced in every random f*cking scene), then some Wayne family stuff... Since the show forgot what character development is... Then they get shot and it goes on.

Speaking of the shooting scene, that was really dumb... It felt like the result of a drunken bet between the writers of Flash, Arrow and Gotham where they went "Hey ...I bet you can't get a second season if you f*ck up the Wayne killing!" ... And Gordon ...Oh my god Gordon.

 

He's so f*cking generic. I loved Gordon from other stuff but this one is so bad.

Okay, here's an example.

"I'm a good cop that works in a city full of bad cops. I'm a hotshot...A cool dude with a rad 'tude! I'm gonna clean up this town... Look at me hotdogging like a f*cking asshole! I am mad at the underground criminal affiliations of my partner! I argue with my partner and don't understand why he puts up with a corrupt police system that's run by the mob! I'M JUST LIKE MY FATHER!"

With our combined efforts, we can probably name up to 100 characters who are just that... 100% that.

When the Waynes get shot, the people standing 10 feet away from the shooting don't give a f*ck. I mean, I know the city is controlled by the mob (Even though, the show does nothing to show that, by that point) ...They're like "This is normal." or "I accidentally put a rubber duck up my ass and need a public restroom to get it out." ...You'd think they'd atleast RUN... Or speed walk away! There is no crime controlled environment on earth that would be like that.

Also, f*ck the Riddler... And Poison Ivy.

 

Now here's what I really liked.

Harvey Bullock. He's just awesome.

I like how the high-ranked criminals are seemingly at eachother's throats to get the top, as a kingpin of crime in a town that is completely controlled by crime. That's one plot line that hasn't been used by every single detective show.

I also LOVED Penguin. He was my favorite thing about the show. I liked how he was sneaking from the bottom, trying to take out his boss to rise up and be in control... I liked that. I like HIM.

And the ending was awesome... The show doesn't expect you to believe that a cop with morals so generic would abandon them and wait around for f*ck-all reason.

He's in there because he made a promise to Bruce, and that's what he'll do, I liked that.

Also, f*ck Bruce.

 

Bonus.

James Gordon is engaged to Barbara something (Who has a secret for some f*cking reason)...

I can't wait for James Gordon to go and get married to Barbara Gordon and then go back to their house... Then James Gordon will f*ck Barbara Gordon.

I'm sorry, I just had to emphasize how much that sounded like an incest fetish porno.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand that's what I thought of it. Really feel like discussing it. May be excitement that I'm not aware of.. Not sure.

DarthYenik and literally 7 other people on this one section of the forums are the only forum members I actually respect and can sway my opinion.

Please don't ban me, the next time I break the rules.

Edited by IDredMan

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darthYENIK

The first episode was good. It established Gotham City and what we should expect from a Gotham without Batman, which is a crime ridden corrupt world where the only heroes are corrupt cops, until Gordon arrives.

 

I do have some gripes.

 

 

Catwoman witnessing the Waynes' murders. I don't like that. It's just too coincidental, even for a show inspired by comics. And why is Poison Ivy's real name Ivy? Her name is Pamela Isley. And why is Jim Gordon talking with Bruce Wayne so much?

Other than that, I liked it. The real test is the second episode. A good pilot is easy. Keeping it going is the hard part.

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Mr. Scratch

I gotta be honest, it was pretty underwhelming. Hopefully it gets better.

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Cult Of Personality

I just watched it. Very mixed feelings. I don't even know where to begin. Gonna put this out there before I begin; I think Arrow and Agents of Shield are very mediocre, however I like Gotham. How much I like it I'm not too sure. The fact that it has 8.6 on Imdb is criminal - 8.0 at most basing it off the pilot.

Anyway, into the spoilers.

 

 

 

* This show has terrible pacing and transitions. The Wayne Murder speaks for itself. That was executely so poorly. At first I thought they just said "f*ck it" when writing in regards to how he just shot them after the robbery. Thankfully they explained, or inferred, that it was a targeted hit. Nevertheless, it was still executed poorly. Some of the transitions from one scene to another feel really off putting. The scene where Barbara is told that it might be a setup and then straight away it skips to the night where she confronts Gordon about it. It just felt so off.

 

* The writing suffers from a lack of subtlety. The amount of carrot sticks in that episode was so forced. They force it so much that they should have just put a sign on the screen saying "She has a secret" instead of that horribly forced "Oh mer gawd, does he really know who you are!?".

 

* The casting seems pretty good. No problems there.

 

* Bruce Wayne. I honestly hope he won't be in it every episode but of course he will be. I just know there going to put far too many coincidental tie-ins and it'll feel really tacky and amateurish.

 

 

 

I could write even more but I'll leave it at that for now until further discussion is prompted. I'd also like to add that I'm not well versed in all the comics so I'm assuming a lot of the character name drops are going over my head.

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krashr

i thought it was ok and agree with a lot of what has already been said. hoping it improves because it feels like it could be really good if it's developed well from here

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Girish

I think Arrow and Agents of Shield are very mediocre

Are you serious? This pilot episode makes Arrow look like the best superhero series of all time. Arrow is way past mediocre and even slightly ahead of Agents of Shield.

 

I wasn't expecting to be blown away by Gotham's pilot episode and I definitely wasn't.

Edward Nigma's appearance seemed forced and could have been put off for later.

Although, I'm intrigued by Oswald Cobblepot. His storyline is probably the one that I'm going to enjoy the most.

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darthYENIK

Of Batman's rogues gallery that have appeared so far (which like I said were far too many for a single episode), Penguin's story is the only one that makes sense to be exploring at this point in the Batman continuity. The ones that are essentially mobsters make sense, because they're around before Batman. So Penguin, Carmine Falcone, Roman Sionis, Sal Maroni, Rupert Thorne, (or their predecessors) are all viable bad guys for this show.

 

Ultimately, I'd love to see some sort of Court of Owls or Jonah Hex connection in this show. They've been part of Gotham City a lot longer than Batman or Jim Gordon, and have to have some sort of remnant left in the city.

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Cult Of Personality

 

I think Arrow and Agents of Shield are very mediocre

Are you serious? This pilot episode makes Arrow look like the best superhero series of all time. Arrow is way past mediocre and even slightly ahead of Agents of Shield.

Arrow wasn't completely uninspired. I'm not well versed in the origins of the Green Arrow but it looked like they were heavily influenced by Batman Begins. The writing also suffers from a lack of subtlety. The amount of carrot sticks in the pilot of Arrow completely put me off the show. The action was the only solid thing about Arrow. Maybe I've just been spoilt by shows with good writing.

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Girish

If you chucked the show after the first few episodes then you're missing a lot. It just got better and better. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that any superhero TV show that comes up now will have to live up to the Arrow, and that's including The Flash.

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Cult Of Personality

If you chucked the show after the first few episodes then you're missing a lot. It just got better and better. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that any superhero TV show that comes up now will have to live up to the Arrow, and that's including The Flash.

I just couldn't get past some of the awful writing. I've been told the writing doesn't get better and that's huge for me. The action might get more grandiose but I need my literature man.

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Girish

If you chucked the show after the first few episodes then you're missing a lot. It just got better and better. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that any superhero TV show that comes up now will have to live up to the Arrow, and that's including The Flash.

I just couldn't get past some of the awful writing. I've been told the writing doesn't get better and that's huge for me. The action might get more grandiose but I need my literature man.

The person who told you that the writing doesn't get better needs a slap on his head. Besides, you cannot really expect a TV show about a man who dresses up in a green costume shooting arrows to be a literary masterpiece. Among the current crop of superhero shows, Arrow is as good as it gets.

 

But anyways, lets not discuss that in this topic. We can take this discussion over to the Arrow topic.

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IDredMan

The Poison Ivy kid appearance made my biggest fear for this show almost come true, but I really hope it doesn't.

 

It's obsessed with Nolan realism... And doesn't understand it.

I feel like they want some of the superpowered characters but have a gigantic boner for Nolan realism, that it'll just ruin it.

Arrow season 1 suffered from this, but quickly recovered.

 

You think if you tasked Christopher Nolan with directed a Batman movie where the main villain is Poison Ivy or Firefly, he'd forcefully constrain himself to being 100% realistic? No. He'd still find a way to make it feel real, make it feel like a world that's alive, been lived in and will be lived in... While still servicing the main antagonist.

The Dark Knight Trilogy had villains that were very easy to bring down to Earth. So was Firefly, but the writers of Arrow thought whatever the f*ck they brought on for the first season would be good.

 

Really hope they don't make the same mistake.

I'm not saying they should give villains superpowers.

I'm saying they should have non-powered characters on.

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Cult Of Personality

Can some clear this up for me:

 

 

I thought Barbara Gordon was Jim Gordon's daughter who became batgirl then later Oracle. Have they decided to take some artistic license and make her his wife or was the wife called Barbara as well? If something like the wife dies in the comics and he decided to name the daughter after her then try not to spoil that for me. :p

 

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J-B

Can some clear this up for me:

 

 

I thought Barbara Gordon was Jim Gordon's daughter who became batgirl then later Oracle. Have they decided to take some artistic license and make her his wife or was the wife called Barbara as well? If something like the wife dies in the comics and he decided to name the daughter after her then try not to spoil that for me. :p

 

 

His wife was always named Barbara, and not dead, just divorced. Prior to the New 52 Batgirl/Oracle was his niece and he was her legal guardian.

 

In the New 52 she is his actual biological daughter, and named after her mother.

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darthYENIK

She was actually originally Gordon's daughter, and then in the 80s it was changed to niece.

 

Sidenote, I really like Gail Simone's New 52 Batgirl run. Although it's often constrained by crossovers, and events that occur in other Batman books, it created a Barbara Gordon who is tough as nails, but still a believable young woman. I'd love to see that Barbara Gordon in movies or on TV one day.

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krashr

the nigma character was woeful and still feels like some sort of lame copy of the jim carrey portrayal, which i've seen happen a lot with certain batman characters that haven't been updated in a while. the oswald character was interesting, by the end of it i'd stopped comparing him to "todd" from wedding crashers

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darthYENIK

The one Bruce Wayne story I want to see, the only one, is the time Alfred and Bruce's car broke down in Smallville...

BatmanSuperman3b.jpg

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Cult Of Personality

Am I correct in assuming that Bruce Wayne stays in Gotham after the death of his parents in most of the comics? It's only in the Nolan Universe that he leaves Gotham and only returns after training?

 

Tonights episode will tell me a lot about this series. I want to see how they handle Selina Kyle. I'm staying optimistic. I really hope it doesn't turn into a cliché cheese fest of absurd tie-ins and concidental run ins.

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darthYENIK

In the comics, he always goes out into the world to train, very similar to that of Batman Begins. Although historically he wasn't trained by the League of Assassins (League of Shadows in the Nolanverse). This usually happens when he is in his late teens.

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Cult Of Personality

In the comics, he always goes out into the world to train, very similar to that of Batman Begins. Although historically he wasn't trained by the League of Assassins (League of Shadows in the Nolanverse). This usually happens when he is in his late teens.

Cool. So depending on how long this series stretches, we should see Bruce leaving.

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IDredMan

Am I the only one who doesn't want Bruce to leave?

 

I don't think Gordon, at this point in the series is an interesting enough character to hold his own... And probably the best thing that he did in the pilot was only put up with the corrupt polices sh*t just to keep his promise to Bruce. Leaving out Bruce would only make the story revolve around Gordon and the Penguin storyarch (Which is pretty much an extension of the crime family war storyarch) ...And that would kinda wear it out.

They COULD do Selinas storyline ...Although no one's sure what the f*ck that's about.

 

Anyway, I rewatched the pilot twice in the last few days and I kinda like it a little more now. Feel like having pre-knowledge of what's coming makes me focus more on the good stuff.

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darthYENIK

The second episode was on. It was okay. I thought a further progression of the overall story of Gotham City. Obvious tensions between Falcone and Maroni (the other big mobster in Gotham), and the name dropping of a full on Batman villain. Not, "this is Edward Nygma", or "this is Selina Kyle", but full on...

Dollmaker. Who if you watch Arrow, they did an episode with him last season. But I doubt they're going to be connected.

 

 

And holy sh*t, look at this...

http://youtu.be/bzUJDmjBPuQ

Edited by darthYENIK

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