[PS3] Constructive criticism on technical point-to-point?

[Gliding]

I just finished creating my point-to-point race. I love the route, but i struggled on prop and waypoint placement at first. I'm pretty happy with my updated version, but i'd like to see how i can improve it before i post it in the approved races thread.

 

http://rsg.ms/PFTdek

[ezfaun]

It's best to place checkpoints while driving. It feels more natural in the race. To do that, switch camera and you'll be able to drive and place stuff down

[Gliding]

It's best to place checkpoints while driving. It feels more natural in the race. To do that, switch camera and you'll be able to drive and place stuff down

That's what i did, it's just that it's so long and has so many turns that it's almost impossible to be able to see every single checkpoint from the previous one without hitting the limit on how many you can place.

 

There are a couple of areas in the race where i really struggled with it, but it's always visible fairly quickly after passing the checkpoint, there may be one corner or a hill in the way, but it isn't that easy to get lost.

 

It was a lot worse before, i think it's pretty close to completion now and only needs some minor adjustments and fine tuning to finish it off.

 

Did you try it out?

[djdest]

Ive not had a chance to try it yet, but if its not a high speed race I don't see any problem with checkpoints not being visible.
A lot of the off road challenges our crew makes are all like this, having to use the sat nav to see where the next one is adds to the challenge

[Gliding]

Ive not had a chance to try it yet, but if its not a high speed race I don't see any problem with checkpoints not being visible.

A lot of the off road challenges our crew makes are all like this, having to use the sat nav to see where the next one is adds to the challenge

It's pretty long, so naturally some sections are long sweeping high speed corners with altitude change and that's where i struggled a little.

 

I hope someone can try it out though, still looking for feedback.

[LuapYllier]

 

 

It's best to place checkpoints while driving. It feels more natural in the race. To do that, switch camera and you'll be able to drive and place stuff down

That's what i did, it's just that it's so long and has so many turns that it's almost impossible to be able to see every single checkpoint from the previous one without hitting the limit on how many you can place.

 

There are a couple of areas in the race where i really struggled with it, but it's always visible fairly quickly after passing the checkpoint, there may be one corner or a hill in the way, but it isn't that easy to get lost.

 

It was a lot worse before, i think it's pretty close to completion now and only needs some minor adjustments and fine tuning to finish it off.

 

Did you try it out?

I always wonder why people don't understand that there is a limit on the number of checpoints because races are not supposed to be 30 miles long. Stretching the checkpoints beyond the suggested "you can see it" common standards only does damage to the quality of the race.

[Gliding]

 

 

It's best to place checkpoints while driving. It feels more natural in the race. To do that, switch camera and you'll be able to drive and place stuff down

That's what i did, it's just that it's so long and has so many turns that it's almost impossible to be able to see every single checkpoint from the previous one without hitting the limit on how many you can place.

 

There are a couple of areas in the race where i really struggled with it, but it's always visible fairly quickly after passing the checkpoint, there may be one corner or a hill in the way, but it isn't that easy to get lost.

 

It was a lot worse before, i think it's pretty close to completion now and only needs some minor adjustments and fine tuning to finish it off.

 

Did you try it out?

I always wonder why people don't understand that there is a limit on the number of checpoints because races are not supposed to be 30 miles long. Stretching the checkpoints beyond the suggested "you can see it" common standards only does damage to the quality of the race.

 

This race is a little bit different from those cluttered 8 checkpoints on a straight type races, it has a lot of altitude change and it's mainly around mountains. It makes it difficult to place a checkpoint in a position that can be seen from the previous one, the only real way to do it at certain points was to group checkpoints together.

 

I think in one or two spots you might be able to see two checkpoints, but the second one will always be off in the distance and only be visible at that point because of the elevation change.

 

This race isn't actually that long. It's under 8 miles, and takes slightly under 6 minutes to complete.

 

Also if anyone tries it, i know that the finish line is awful, would it be better to just remove the barriers completely?

[mo-seph]

 

 

 

It's best to place checkpoints while driving. It feels more natural in the race. To do that, switch camera and you'll be able to drive and place stuff down

That's what i did, it's just that it's so long and has so many turns that it's almost impossible to be able to see every single checkpoint from the previous one without hitting the limit on how many you can place.

 

There are a couple of areas in the race where i really struggled with it, but it's always visible fairly quickly after passing the checkpoint, there may be one corner or a hill in the way, but it isn't that easy to get lost.

 

It was a lot worse before, i think it's pretty close to completion now and only needs some minor adjustments and fine tuning to finish it off.

 

Did you try it out?

I always wonder why people don't understand that there is a limit on the number of checpoints because races are not supposed to be 30 miles long. Stretching the checkpoints beyond the suggested "you can see it" common standards only does damage to the quality of the race.

 

This race is a little bit different from those cluttered 8 checkpoints on a straight type races, it has a lot of altitude change and it's mainly around mountains. It makes it difficult to place a checkpoint in a position that can be seen from the previous one, the only real way to do it at certain points was to group checkpoints together.

 

I think in one or two spots you might be able to see two checkpoints, but the second one will always be off in the distance and only be visible at that point because of the elevation change.

 

This race isn't actually that long. It's under 8 miles, and takes slightly under 6 minutes to complete.

 

Also if anyone tries it, i know that the finish line is awful, would it be better to just remove the barriers completely?

 

 

 

without having run the race yet my common answer to that question is always yes... if a prop is unnecessary remove it... of all the races ive made (about 13, not a great many) ive only used about 8 props across all the races (some races dont need props.. so why use them)

 

checkpoints, topography and the asphalt all should work together to provide the direction of the race, if you need to use props to guide someone, IMO you need a better quality build of your race and better checkpoint placement (thats not a judgement on you or your race, jsut a general comment and opinion)

 

if the road only has one direction you can go in, then naturally a racer will keep driving down the road till he hits a checkpoint...

 

from yur map is say you need an extra checkpoint between 62 and 63, because theres a turn there without a CP.

 

If you move CP 59 back behind the corner not after it, you wont need those construction fences there. Fences at CP 57 are unecessary, although a CP between 56 and 57 may be of benefit.

 

CP 64 WILL point the wrong way, you need to add one between 64 and 65 to give proper direction,.

 

Pointless fences at CP 49 ...

 

Checkpoint 33 shouldnt need fences by it, the CP will point away from that adjoining road so a fence shouldnt be necessary

 

cp 35 and 38 have a load of fences you dont need... as do cp 42 and 43 (i know the area around the observatory like the back of my hand as my fav UGC runs round there, you really dont need those fences...)

 

CP 53 has alot of unecessary fences..

 

 

 

 

 

Ill run the race tonight, ill let you know my thoughts "in person" as it were, but jsut from the map view youve got a whole host of unecessary props.... adding more props than you need tends to cause some rendering issues as the model memory is maxxed...

Edited March 17, 2014 by mo-seph

[Gliding]

 

 

 

 

It's best to place checkpoints while driving. It feels more natural in the race. To do that, switch camera and you'll be able to drive and place stuff down

That's what i did, it's just that it's so long and has so many turns that it's almost impossible to be able to see every single checkpoint from the previous one without hitting the limit on how many you can place.

 

There are a couple of areas in the race where i really struggled with it, but it's always visible fairly quickly after passing the checkpoint, there may be one corner or a hill in the way, but it isn't that easy to get lost.

 

It was a lot worse before, i think it's pretty close to completion now and only needs some minor adjustments and fine tuning to finish it off.

 

Did you try it out?

I always wonder why people don't understand that there is a limit on the number of checpoints because races are not supposed to be 30 miles long. Stretching the checkpoints beyond the suggested "you can see it" common standards only does damage to the quality of the race.

 

This race is a little bit different from those cluttered 8 checkpoints on a straight type races, it has a lot of altitude change and it's mainly around mountains. It makes it difficult to place a checkpoint in a position that can be seen from the previous one, the only real way to do it at certain points was to group checkpoints together.

 

I think in one or two spots you might be able to see two checkpoints, but the second one will always be off in the distance and only be visible at that point because of the elevation change.

 

This race isn't actually that long. It's under 8 miles, and takes slightly under 6 minutes to complete.

 

Also if anyone tries it, i know that the finish line is awful, would it be better to just remove the barriers completely?

 

 

 

without having run the race yet my common answer to that question is always yes... if a prop is unnecessary remove it... of all the races ive made (about 13, not a great many) ive only used about 8 props across all the races (some races dont need props.. so why use them)

 

checkpoints, topography and the asphalt all should work together to provide the direction of the race, if you need to use props to guide someone, IMO you need a better quality build of your race and better checkpoint placement (thats not a judgement on you or your race, jsut a general comment and opinion)

 

if the road only has one direction you can go in, then naturally a racer will keep driving down the road till he hits a checkpoint...

 

from yur map is say you need an extra checkpoint between 62 and 63, because theres a turn there without a CP.

 

If you move CP 59 back behind the corner not after it, you wont need those construction fences there. Fences at CP 57 are unecessary, although a CP between 56 and 57 may be of benefit.

 

CP 64 WILL point the wrong way, you need to add one between 64 and 65 to give proper direction,.

 

Pointless fences at CP 49 ...

 

Checkpoint 33 shouldnt need fences by it, the CP will point away from that adjoining road so a fence shouldnt be necessary

 

cp 35 and 38 have a load of fences you dont need... as do cp 42 and 43 (i know the area around the observatory like the back of my hand as my fav UGC runs round there, you really dont need those fences...)

 

CP 53 has alot of unecessary fences..

 

 

 

 

 

Ill run the race tonight, ill let you know my thoughts "in person" as it were, but jsut from the map view youve got a whole host of unecessary props.... adding more props than you need tends to cause some rendering issues as the model memory is maxxed...

 

Thanks for that, really helpful. feedback. I wasn't aware of the rendering issues.

 

I'll wait for you (or someone else) to drive it and give me feedback before i make any changes though.

[mo-seph]

 

 

 

 

 

It's best to place checkpoints while driving. It feels more natural in the race. To do that, switch camera and you'll be able to drive and place stuff down

That's what i did, it's just that it's so long and has so many turns that it's almost impossible to be able to see every single checkpoint from the previous one without hitting the limit on how many you can place.

 

There are a couple of areas in the race where i really struggled with it, but it's always visible fairly quickly after passing the checkpoint, there may be one corner or a hill in the way, but it isn't that easy to get lost.

 

It was a lot worse before, i think it's pretty close to completion now and only needs some minor adjustments and fine tuning to finish it off.

 

Did you try it out?

I always wonder why people don't understand that there is a limit on the number of checpoints because races are not supposed to be 30 miles long. Stretching the checkpoints beyond the suggested "you can see it" common standards only does damage to the quality of the race.

 

This race is a little bit different from those cluttered 8 checkpoints on a straight type races, it has a lot of altitude change and it's mainly around mountains. It makes it difficult to place a checkpoint in a position that can be seen from the previous one, the only real way to do it at certain points was to group checkpoints together.

 

I think in one or two spots you might be able to see two checkpoints, but the second one will always be off in the distance and only be visible at that point because of the elevation change.

 

This race isn't actually that long. It's under 8 miles, and takes slightly under 6 minutes to complete.

 

Also if anyone tries it, i know that the finish line is awful, would it be better to just remove the barriers completely?

 

 

 

without having run the race yet my common answer to that question is always yes... if a prop is unnecessary remove it... of all the races ive made (about 13, not a great many) ive only used about 8 props across all the races (some races dont need props.. so why use them)

 

checkpoints, topography and the asphalt all should work together to provide the direction of the race, if you need to use props to guide someone, IMO you need a better quality build of your race and better checkpoint placement (thats not a judgement on you or your race, jsut a general comment and opinion)

 

if the road only has one direction you can go in, then naturally a racer will keep driving down the road till he hits a checkpoint...

 

from yur map is say you need an extra checkpoint between 62 and 63, because theres a turn there without a CP.

 

If you move CP 59 back behind the corner not after it, you wont need those construction fences there. Fences at CP 57 are unecessary, although a CP between 56 and 57 may be of benefit.

 

CP 64 WILL point the wrong way, you need to add one between 64 and 65 to give proper direction,.

 

Pointless fences at CP 49 ...

 

Checkpoint 33 shouldnt need fences by it, the CP will point away from that adjoining road so a fence shouldnt be necessary

 

cp 35 and 38 have a load of fences you dont need... as do cp 42 and 43 (i know the area around the observatory like the back of my hand as my fav UGC runs round there, you really dont need those fences...)

 

CP 53 has alot of unecessary fences..

 

 

 

 

 

Ill run the race tonight, ill let you know my thoughts "in person" as it were, but jsut from the map view youve got a whole host of unecessary props.... adding more props than you need tends to cause some rendering issues as the model memory is maxxed...

 

Thanks for that, really helpful. feedback. I wasn't aware of the rendering issues.

 

I'll wait for you (or someone else) to drive it and give me feedback before i make any changes though.

 

 

 

sure thing, props have a sketchy rendering when your going at high speed so keeping them to a minimum IMO is always the best course of action. Altho you were using construction fences which arent as bad as some of the smaller props (tyre lines are prob the worst, you nearly hit them before they are visible in supers/sports)

 

definitely wait for some "driven" feedback but ill give it a shot for you tonight, hopefully in the next 2 hours

[KingRyujin--]

Well I don't know if I can give a fair answer as I am biased to touge style racing. I had no problems hitting checkpoints and really didn't have any issues with props except for the fencing at the finish..that definitely should be taken out.

 

http://socialclub.rockstargames.com/games/gtav/playlists/playlist/voSrEPy1M02LsLReHsQSFA

 

I made a few of those myself. Check em' out.

[mo-seph]

hey fella,

 

ran your race last night and i really enjoyed it, good choice of route, checkpoints were in the majority well placed

 

with the props i can see why you chose to use them, but i do think as per my original feedback that in the majority theyre not necessary.

 

To be a bit level headed about it they neither cause a problem, or enhance the track... i feel that you could easily remove them without causing any issues to the flow of the race or the direction. In two cases i know you placed the blue construction fences to stop people slipping off the road (as you make the downhill right after the galileo observatory and another one further round the course) -

 

Now i totally get why you put them there, but to give a more competitive edge i wouldnt have done so, its nice to not fly off a cliff face because of a barrier stopping you, but theres a skill in not flying off the edge from proper breaking.

 

my recommendations for changes:

 

1) There was one checkpoint, (i think it was around the mid 50's, ill try and run again to confirm) that did point in an odd direction, you might just need to add an additional checkpoint after it to correct the arrow and give better direction, but overall it was a really enjoyable track

 

2) the fences at the finish line dont need to be there id remove them.

 

 

other than that everything i mentioned in my first above isnt necessary, but im a perfectionist and those minor tweaks for me would change a good track, into a really great track.

[Gliding]

hey fella,

 

ran your race last night and i really enjoyed it, good choice of route, checkpoints were in the majority well placed

 

with the props i can see why you chose to use them, but i do think as per my original feedback that in the majority theyre not necessary.

 

To be a bit level headed about it they neither cause a problem, or enhance the track... i feel that you could easily remove them without causing any issues to the flow of the race or the direction. In two cases i know you placed the blue construction fences to stop people slipping off the road (as you make the downhill right after the galileo observatory and another one further round the course) -

 

Now i totally get why you put them there, but to give a more competitive edge i wouldnt have done so, its nice to not fly off a cliff face because of a barrier stopping you, but theres a skill in not flying off the edge from proper breaking.

 

my recommendations for changes:

 

1) There was one checkpoint, (i think it was around the mid 50's, ill try and run again to confirm) that did point in an odd direction, you might just need to add an additional checkpoint after it to correct the arrow and give better direction, but overall it was a really enjoyable track

 

2) the fences at the finish line dont need to be there id remove them.

 

 

other than that everything i mentioned in my first above isnt necessary, but im a perfectionist and those minor tweaks for me would change a good track, into a really great track.

Thanks for the tips, i'll be taking a look at it a little later on today.

 

1) i think there are actually a couple of checkpoints pointing in strange directions, i'll definitely need to drive around and adjust the odd ones.

 

2) The fences at the end definitely need to go, i didn't realize how bad of an idea that was when i was doing it.

 

As for the parts where i blocked off, The barriers after the observatory were originally placed because in my first rendition of the track i didn't have the checkpoint down at the hairpin, which allowed for a straight shot across the grass for a really big short cut. I'll probably be removing them now, they're pretty pointless. But i think i might keep, or improve the ones down at checkpoint 49. If you don't know the track you're pretty much guaranteed to go off there, because of the elevation change at that spot the corner is completely blind until you're right on top of it. I do get what you're saying though, just trying to make it a little more forgiving for your average player.

 

Really useful feedback, you've given me a few things to think about and i'm pretty sure that your advice will lead to a lot of improvements in the course. I'm glad you enjoyed it too, it's nice to know that i'm not alone in thinking that it's a fun route to drive.

[mo-seph]

 

hey fella,

 

ran your race last night and i really enjoyed it, good choice of route, checkpoints were in the majority well placed

 

with the props i can see why you chose to use them, but i do think as per my original feedback that in the majority theyre not necessary.

 

To be a bit level headed about it they neither cause a problem, or enhance the track... i feel that you could easily remove them without causing any issues to the flow of the race or the direction. In two cases i know you placed the blue construction fences to stop people slipping off the road (as you make the downhill right after the galileo observatory and another one further round the course) -

 

Now i totally get why you put them there, but to give a more competitive edge i wouldnt have done so, its nice to not fly off a cliff face because of a barrier stopping you, but theres a skill in not flying off the edge from proper breaking.

 

my recommendations for changes:

 

1) There was one checkpoint, (i think it was around the mid 50's, ill try and run again to confirm) that did point in an odd direction, you might just need to add an additional checkpoint after it to correct the arrow and give better direction, but overall it was a really enjoyable track

 

2) the fences at the finish line dont need to be there id remove them.

 

 

other than that everything i mentioned in my first above isnt necessary, but im a perfectionist and those minor tweaks for me would change a good track, into a really great track.

Thanks for the tips, i'll be taking a look at it a little later on today.

 

1) i think there are actually a couple of checkpoints pointing in strange directions, i'll definitely need to drive around and adjust the odd ones.

 

2) The fences at the end definitely need to go, i didn't realize how bad of an idea that was when i was doing it.

 

As for the parts where i blocked off, The barriers after the observatory were originally placed because in my first rendition of the track i didn't have the checkpoint down at the hairpin, which allowed for a straight shot across the grass for a really big short cut. I'll probably be removing them now, they're pretty pointless. But i think i might keep, or improve the ones down at checkpoint 49. If you don't know the track you're pretty much guaranteed to go off there, because of the elevation change at that spot the corner is completely blind until you're right on top of it. I do get what you're saying though, just trying to make it a little more forgiving for your average player.

 

Really useful feedback, you've given me a few things to think about and i'm pretty sure that your advice will lead to a lot of improvements in the course. I'm glad you enjoyed it too, it's nice to know that i'm not alone in thinking that it's a fun route to drive.

 

 

 

ahhh that makes complete sense about the barriers at the observatory... as for the CP 49 ones i completely get where your coming from, i think im just a bit more ruthless about these things and if your not already braking for a blind corner, you kinda deserve to fly off the mountain.... that said i have done something similar on one of my races that goes along the edge of the alamo sea, but rather than the big fences i used haybails... that way if your waay too fast for the corner your still gonna flip over them and roll down the cliff.. but if your just an edge too fast (which we all can be sometime sin the heat of the moment) its just enough to give you a little nudge to stay on course

 

oh its definately a fun route to drive, two of my fav races from my crew members are around big portions of the course/route that youve taken and my personal favourite of my own tracks takes the same route around the observatory, albeit as a lap race rather than p2p. your route actually takes some of my favourite bits of road in all of GTA, albeit some of your uphil sections i prefer as downhills lol.

[Gliding]

Yeah it would be nice if the whole route was downhill lol.

 

I took your feedback on board and tweaked the checkpoints a little, they now make more sense than they did before. I also removed a few props, replaced some with hay bales, and fixed the finish line.

 

http://rsg.ms/1gKokuT

 

I think it drives a little better now. I did leave behind some of the construction fences at points, and also added a discreet little wrecked van to block off a tiny shortcut near the observatory.

 

Your track looks great, i'm going to give it a run later on and see how it feels.

[mo-seph]

from the map view it does look alot better, ill give it another run when im next on to see the difference.

 

and as for my track, feels like silk my friend, like silk.. (but i am slightly bias). i recommend running ti once yourself, then trying to get 6-8 other players to run it with you with more than 3 laps, makes for an interesting overlap , plus with the layout of your track you should nail the inner loop round the observatory

[Gliding]

from the map view it does look alot better, ill give it another run when im next on to see the difference.

 

and as for my track, feels like silk my friend, like silk.. (but i am slightly bias). i recommend running ti once yourself, then trying to get 6-8 other players to run it with you with more than 3 laps, makes for an interesting overlap , plus with the layout of your track you should nail the inner loop round the observatory

Just had a quick go around your track, just one four lap race. Enjoyed it a lot, drove alone and only managed one completely clean lap. Almost made 1.46, got a 1.47.07 on my last lap.

[mo-seph]

 

from the map view it does look alot better, ill give it another run when im next on to see the difference.

 

and as for my track, feels like silk my friend, like silk.. (but i am slightly bias). i recommend running ti once yourself, then trying to get 6-8 other players to run it with you with more than 3 laps, makes for an interesting overlap , plus with the layout of your track you should nail the inner loop round the observatory

Just had a quick go around your track, just one four lap race. Enjoyed it a lot, drove alone and only managed one completely clean lap. Almost made 1.46, got a 1.47.07 on my last lap.

 

 

 

lemme guess, that sharp right at checkpoint 9 catching you out?? for a better driving line (but a riskier one) take the left hand lanes on the straight, then cut between the signs. you lose less speed than being in the right hand lane where you ahve to brake much harder/earlier to make the turn .. its definitely more fun to race it in a group though, it adds the little extra spice that the course was designed for.

 

Glad you liked it tho fella, ive nver really thought about my lap times on there but after a lot of runs im pretty flawless on it these days (i say that, but showed my friend last night after a couple of beers and i was horrendously bad, crashed about 5 times per lap... moral of the story... dont drink and drive.)