GTA Online - Creating an ACTUAL economy

[Darth_Rob]

It would be amazing, but the glitching will never get fixed.

[luisniko]

Well thought, OP.

 

The problem I see is that Rockstar is obviously hungry of quick money. They implemented a cheap method of "Make everything expensive, give low reward, offer Cash Card". People of Rockstar fanboy will close their eyes and say they never force you to buy CC, but actually they do - in a non-direct way.

 

Rockstar method makes people unhappy which lead them to resort into glitch and hack. Hackers will always be there, no matter the economy is correct or incorrect, but the number of people who do the hacking & glitching method also determined by how the developer treat players. But that doesn't mean if developer is being generous, players will start buying Cash Cards. Nobody likes giving up their money. Deep inside our heart we all want free stuff. However, treating customer nicely instead of fooling and obviously forcing them won't hurt both side.

 

Now actually Rockstar can keep all the prices just like how it is in Single Player. I'm pretty sure nobody would complain with the current payout set in missions. Why? Simply because they can get something after that mission, like a new paintjob and clothes, for example. Currently everyone, especially low levels who don't get access to RR and such, are suffering on hard low paying missions which gets them nothing out of that mission. They can't buy anything with the ridiculous reward. And then they may have to play 5 or 10 tough missions just to buy Scope or Silencer for their gun, or maybe a paint. When that happens, who wouldn't seek a way out? Again, nobody likes to spend money. Especially you know you're being indirectly forced. Personally, I have no obligation to buy Cash Cards because I don't support the way Rockstar is treating this game.

 

As I said earlier, Rockstar can just keep the prices at the same line as in Single Player. Now how do they get money? Change the way they offer Cash Cards. Make the simple and effective feature called Premium Contents. They have updates which bring new cars, clothes etc, correct? Why not offer, let's say Turismo R can only be purchased using Rockstar Points. Player of course have to buy Rockstar Point first, something like PSN voucher. Offer something special and advantage to the Premium Content so people will have reason why they need to buy them. Of course, don't be greedy and overly charge the Premium Content again or they'll be in the evil circle once again.

 

That's my idea. I think it's simple as long as you're not so money oriented. Give players a FAIR reason why they need to pay extra and I'm sure they will profit something. It's a healthier method for both customer and developer, in my opinion.

 

Sorry no TLDR version for anyone who are lazy to read.

Edited May 15, 2014 by luisniko

[MaxCady98]

Cool story bro.

[mojito]

gta v can surely learn a thing or 2 from TF2

[CrazyRay]

OP fail, the money is endless, every mission pays with money that appears "out of thin air"...there is no economy structure if every player keeps getting richer and richer

[Urmom243]

There really can't be an "economy" unless there is a finite amount of money. As of now we have unlimited amounts by generating money through missions and cash cards.

[Euphorica]

There really can't be an "economy" unless there is a finite amount of money. As of now we have unlimited amounts by generating money through missions and cash cards.

 

Ermm..are you familiar with EVE online?

[CrazyRay]

Ermm..are you familiar with EVE online?

No, and I'm sure most aren't, especially when you abbreviate it like that as if it's so huge that people would know it by it's initials...

 

You aren't understanding what he (and I, since I said the same thing) are saying...the game has the potential for everyone's net-wealth to be in the millions, impossible in a real economy

[dzian]

You need some real sinks to create a stable economy. As it is. Theres an infinite amount of cash being given out to players on a regular basis. There's also an infinite supply of cars on websites. And without a means to dispose of that any economy fails because the number of cars and amount of money players have only ever increases due to infinite supply.

 

In truth the value of gta currency declines in the current game. To the point that money is worthless to me. And not something I need to be frugal with. When I first started playing gtao I was quite cautious with my money saving for a garage and my carbonizzarra. Slowly modding them as I ranked up and every purchase was a conscious decision as money had value to me.

Currently it doesn't matter whether i have 10k or a million+ money is worthless a slight hinderence at best. If I buy a car and run out of cash modding it up no problem I know its so easy to make some cash it's just not worth worrying about.

 

And thus money has declined in value.

 

For a true economy to work in gta. The injection of cars guns cash and clothes neednto be controlled. And there needs to be a means of removing them from the game so that the quantity at any time is controlled. Imagine if he only way to obtain an adder was to complete a race sequence story line and win it in the final race. A sequence that cant be repeated or spammed and only the best of racers could win. Suddenly the adder would become a rare commodity with some real value or something like that.

 

And thus the value of that adder would be governed by the playerbase. In a real sense of supply and demand. That adder might be worth 10 million. Or 100k depending on how hard the race was to win and how many were up for sale. There you have economy

Edited May 15, 2014 by dzian

[Lee Everett]

You need some real sinks to create a stable economy. As it is. Theres an infinite amount of cash being given out to players on a regular basis. There's also an infinite supply of cars on websites. And without a means to dispose of that any economy fails because the number of cars and amount of money players have only ever increases due to infinite supply.

 

In truth the value of gta currency declines in the current game. To the point that money is worthless to me. And not something I need to be frugal with. When I first started playing gtao I was quite cautious with my money saving for a garage and my carbonizzarra. Slowly modding them as I ranked up and every purchase was a conscious decision as money had value to me.

Currently it doesn't matter whether i have 10k or a million+ money is worthless a slight hinderence at best. If I buy a car and run out of cash modding it up no problem I know its so easy to make some cash it's just not worth worrying about.

 

And thus money has declined in value.

 

For a true economy to work in gta. The injection of cars guns cash and clothes neednto be controlled. And there needs to be a means of removing them from the game so that the quantity at any time is controlled. Imagine if he only way to obtain an adder was to complete a race sequence story line and win it in the final race. A sequence that cant be repeated or spammed and only the best of racers could win. Suddenly the adder would become a rare commodity with some real value or something like that.

 

And thus the value of that adder would be governed by the playerbase. In a real sense of supply and demand. That adder might be worth 10 million. Or 100k depending on how hard the race was to win and how many were up for sale. There you have economy

 

I totally agree with you, the real reason economy might seem worthless for anyone isn't because of sinks though, it's because in itself the actual dollar has no value. Here are the things you can do with your GTAOnline cash

 

>>Buy an apartment

>>Buy cars

>>Buy clothing

 

Afterwards there's absolutely nothing to spend it on.

 

- The clothing is a one time thing, go in with 100k and you'll have every single clothe in the game.

- The cars, all cosmetic (you only really need 1-3 vehicles the other vehicles people usually have they don't drive around, and only have to show their wealth)

- Apartments, only actual good thing you can do with your money. It's a necessity to own an apartment. But after you buy your apartment, then there's really nothing else to do)

 

Now going back to money sinks. I agree with you 100%, the economy does need a better sink. And with the idea of stocks, that can all happen. How? By taxing players on their earnings. They earn 1 million? Tax them 250,000. People will be less likely to complain because they are still earning. Someone just has 750,000 in stocks, they are not going to complain about the taxes, because overall they just made the quickest money they can ever make in-game.

 

There's another way, a better way to clean the economy swiftly. I will make another thread on it in a minute.

[FrozenInferno]

It would take a complete overhaul to give this game at least a taste of a functioning economy:

 

1) A finite amount of money that can change hands between all players playing the game, which won't happen because of shark cards, at least as long as you buy GTA$. If instead of buying cash you buy some kind of points then that could be considered a different currency and thus wouldn't effect GTA$. Unfortunately this would lead to items that can only be purchased by using these GTA points and you'd be forced to buy cards to get them because Rockstar needs people to be encouraged to spend.

 

2) Any money spent by players in the game would have to go into a "cash pool", and that's where mission payouts would need to come from. Player spending would then be injected directly into the economy and withdrawn by others in the form of getting paid by missions. Theoretically you could hit a wall where half of the player base has a large amount of money and stops buying things, and the other half can't earn money from missions because nobody is spending and filling up the "cash pool". Unlikely though. This would also take away the freedom to do jobs at will because if the demand for job payments exceeds the spending of other players then you'd be out of luck until the economy got a jump start. You'd also see very low payouts for missions to avoid using up the available cash too quickly.

 

3) Limit the amount of items that can be sold. The dealership websites could only contain cars that can't be found on the street and there would have to be a fixed limit of how many can be bought and put into circulation. Maybe the Adder could have a production run of 1,000,000 vehicles, released in batches over time, until all of them are bought. This would create demand for the car and make it a valuable commodity once they sold out. For something like this to work you'd need...

 

4) A marketplace system. If someone who bought one of the million Adders wants to sell it he could play the market and possibly get more than he spent on it, but at the same time other players would be forced to watch their money because they'd know there isn't an endless supply and it could take them a long time to make the money back. The value of money would be a factor for most players in a case like that and a seller couldn't demand a crazy price because not many would risk crippling themselves financially by making a ludicrous purchase.

 

The thing about the two points above is with items being limited it would also limit spending and thus limit mission payouts. There would have to be some unlimited high-dollar items to keep people spending unless Ammunation sells an insane amount of ammo to make up for it.

 

It's not perfect but there's no way to make a perfect economy for a game. With a system like this being a wealthy player would actually mean something because for every wealthy player there would be several broke players, but you'd end up with a situation much like the real world today where a small percentage of players hold most of the available cash and the game would go stagnant. Plus, as more new players join the game the cash pool would be stretched thinner and thinner unless Rockstar "printed some more GTA$" and stimulated the economy every so often. I don't know how you could balance it to make it work long term.

Edited May 16, 2014 by FrozenInferno

[Lee Everett]

I've created a new thread here: http://gtaforums.com/topic/709300-gtaonline-cleaning-the-economy/

 

On some ways the economy could be cleaned. This would work on both an opened and closed economy.

[CaliMeatWagon]

If we had Realistic Steak and Cake That's Not a Lie then we could have an economy.

 

But seriously we need other stuff to spend money on. Some ideas I have:

 

• Open up the restaurants in the game and give us a hunger system like in GTA: San Andreas.
• Have the Taco Trucks be sources of food like the Hot Dog stands in GTA IV.
• Each update should include new films to watch at the in game cinemas.
• Increase the cost of living. Ex. Mors Mutual is now a "monthly subscription" like it is IRL. Increase the cost of utilities, house keeping and mechanic.
• Introduce the ability to rent or mortgage a property. Curious about the view of a property? Rent it out first. Broke, but want a place? Drop a down payment and pay a mortgage.
• Open up the casino and horse racing track.
• Introduce Golf and Tennis tournaments that have high a extremely high buy in with all going into a pot, winner take all.
• Introduce higher stakes matches and the ability to race for pink slips (car titles).
• And the thing I want most:
  The ability to run out of gas. Give us a fuel gauge and a speedometer. Make the jerry can's and gas stations useful. Give us that extra bit of excitement when your in a chase and your tank runs dry.

 

They also need to introduce supply and demand with in the items that are already for sale.

• If semi's and box trucks keep getting attacked and destroyed, then cost of food supplies would go up.
• If a lot of free roam PvP is going on, then the cost of ammo and armor go up.
• A certain car model or brand is constantly being purchased, destroyed, or stolen and it would affect the price of said brand or model

[Coin]

 

No, and I'm sure most aren't, especially when you abbreviate it like that as if it's so huge that people would know it by it's initials...

 

You aren't understanding what he (and I, since I said the same thing) are saying...the game has the potential for everyone's net-wealth to be in the millions, impossible in a real economy

 

 

It isn't abbreviated, the game is simply called EVE Online. And it is the benchmark for player driven economies.

[AnotherUserName]

Money doesn't have to be finite, there just has to be a balance where the inflow and outflow of cash doesn't severely offset what is in circulation. There has to be enough money sinks in place to keep what's coming in from piling up and throwing off the balance. Where GTA ultimately fails is that the amount of money coming in severely outweighs the amount that is going out. The money sinks that are in place now are completely ineffective because not only are they relatively miniscule, it is quite easy to make large amounts of money quickly while having very little reason to spend it. Shark cards don't really make much of a difference, as even without them, there will always be people with access to large amounts of easily acquired money. It's actually like that now just due to the ease of grinding something like RR for quick, large amounts of cash. Even the dreaded shark cards can be offset with effective enough money sinks.

In a similar vein, resources and items don't have to be finite either, but there should always be a reason to acquire them or something better, thus making them a factor in spending money. However, GTA has no resources to speak of.

Money and resources being finite will ultimately break an economy due to the inevitable power-hungry hoarders wanting to control it all. They will end up with final say and deciding who gets what and for whatever price they choose.

Honestly, I believe that economy-wise, the game was screwed the moment it was designed. With no proper money sinks, and easy, repeatable high-paying missions, the money is only going to continue to pile up with nowhere to go and no real reasons to spend it. I don't think it can be fixed either. Implementing more and more high-cost items has already proven ineffective due to how relatively simple it is to obtain the necessary cash and by players already having vast amounts of wealth that can be replaced quickly and easily. Also, just looking at the general attitude of the community in regards to anything having to do with money, any attempts to implement proper money sinks will be met with nothing but backlash and outcry.

 

 

 

 

Ermm..are you familiar with EVE online?

No, and I'm sure most aren't, especially when you abbreviate it like that as if it's so huge that people would know it by it's initials...

 

 

EVE isn't an acronym, it's just they way it is spelled. Also, it is pretty well known mostly due to it having one of the most developed economies in gaming.

Edited May 16, 2014 by AnotherUserName

[Zwenkwiel]

cash cards

 

/thread

[SKaREO]

A game like this doesn't need an economy. Go play another MMO, like EVE Online if you're into staring at spreadsheets and manipulating market prices in real-time.

[BenecioDelToro]

 

If we had Realistic Steak and Cake That's Not a Lie then we could have an economy.

 

But seriously we need other stuff to spend money on. Some ideas I have:

 

• Open up the restaurants in the game and give us a hunger system like in GTA: San Andreas.
• Have the Taco Trucks be sources of food like the Hot Dog stands in GTA IV.
• Each update should include new films to watch at the in game cinemas.
• Increase the cost of living. Ex. Mors Mutual is now a "monthly subscription" like it is IRL. Increase the cost of utilities, house keeping and mechanic.
• Introduce the ability to rent or mortgage a property. Curious about the view of a property? Rent it out first. Broke, but want a place? Drop a down payment and pay a mortgage.
• Open up the casino and horse racing track.
• Introduce Golf and Tennis tournaments that have high a extremely high buy in with all going into a pot, winner take all.
• Introduce higher stakes matches and the ability to race for pink slips (car titles).
• And the thing I want most:

  The ability to run out of gas. Give us a fuel gauge and a speedometer. Make the jerry can's and gas stations useful. Give us that extra bit of excitement when your in a chase and your tank runs dry.

 

They also need to introduce supply and demand with in the items that are already for sale.

• If semi's and box trucks keep getting attacked and destroyed, then cost of food supplies would go up.
• If a lot of free roam PvP is going on, then the cost of ammo and armor go up.
• A certain car model or brand is constantly being purchased, destroyed, or stolen and it would affect the price of said brand or model

 

Oh, god. If there's any way to make the game more boring and wallet drying it would be this.

[dzian]

 

 

No, and I'm sure most aren't, especially when you abbreviate it like that as if it's so huge that people would know it by it's initials...

 

You aren't understanding what he (and I, since I said the same thing) are saying...the game has the potential for everyone's net-wealth to be in the millions, impossible in a real economy

 

It isn't abbreviated, the game is simply called EVE Online. And it is the benchmark for player driven economies.

EVE has what is widely regarded as the best player driven economy in the industry. Truly dynamic and player driven.

 

What seperates it from the rest is that in eve both buyer and seller have control over the price in real time. Where in most games the price is driven buy the seller. A seller lists an item for a price and if no one buys it he lowers the price by increments at his control until someobe buys it.

 

In eve though people wanting to buy can specify a price in competition with others who want to buy and then a seller can either choose the best offer or list his own price. And the buyer can wait until another seller does accept his offer.

 

Its really driven by both sides. And allows some real marketing to be done. I need a shio now I can pay a sellers price and get it now. I need one in a week. I can list my own price sometimes 15% or 20% cheaper and in a day or 3 someone may have accepted my offer in order to get a fast sale.

 

This wouldn't work to well in gta as so many of the prices are fixed even on thibgs like car mods. And that is largely why gta will never have a proper economy.

[Kampioen]

There really can't be an "economy" unless there is a finite amount of money. As of now we have unlimited amounts by generating money through missions and cash cards.

 

A finite amount of money you say? Tell that to the Federal Reserve.

Edited May 17, 2014 by CenMan

[Kid SixXx]

As much as I'd like to see a player driven economy in this game, thematically we are all criminals and the means by which we earn a living isn't exactly smiled upon by society at large.

 

I personally would love having to maintain my own TP Industries style criminal enterprise as my means to earn money, but I am a well-adjusted adult that realizes this is only a game.

 

I am not sure parents would get the game for their kids if they knew that the MMO-ish piece encouraged drug smuggling, money laundering, and the like.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Kid SixXx

[Mr Fyn666]

 

 

If we had Realistic Steak and Cake That's Not a Lie then we could have an economy.

 

But seriously we need other stuff to spend money on. Some ideas I have:

 

• Open up the restaurants in the game and give us a hunger system like in GTA: San Andreas.
• Have the Taco Trucks be sources of food like the Hot Dog stands in GTA IV.
• Each update should include new films to watch at the in game cinemas.
• Increase the cost of living. Ex. Mors Mutual is now a "monthly subscription" like it is IRL. Increase the cost of utilities, house keeping and mechanic.
• Introduce the ability to rent or mortgage a property. Curious about the view of a property? Rent it out first. Broke, but want a place? Drop a down payment and pay a mortgage.
• Open up the casino and horse racing track.
• Introduce Golf and Tennis tournaments that have high a extremely high buy in with all going into a pot, winner take all.
• Introduce higher stakes matches and the ability to race for pink slips (car titles).
• And the thing I want most:

  The ability to run out of gas. Give us a fuel gauge and a speedometer. Make the jerry can's and gas stations useful. Give us that extra bit of excitement when your in a chase and your tank runs dry.

 

They also need to introduce supply and demand with in the items that are already for sale.

• If semi's and box trucks keep getting attacked and destroyed, then cost of food supplies would go up.
• If a lot of free roam PvP is going on, then the cost of ammo and armor go up.
• A certain car model or brand is constantly being purchased, destroyed, or stolen and it would affect the price of said brand or model

 

Oh, god. If there's any way to make the game more boring and wallet drying it would be this.

 

 

 

^^^

There are 2 things i would want from that list but in all honesty all those additions would make this title too close to reality and the complete oppisite of what i would want from gaming.

 

• Have the Taco Trucks be sources of food like the Hot Dog stands in GTA IV.
• Open up the casino and horse racing track.

 

Sorry, well thought out but the rest = no, no, no and no.

[AGiganticLlama]

R* add back the ability to give money!! It makes roleplaying so much more immense

[Kampioen]

As much as I'd like to see a player driven economy in this game, thematically we are all criminals and the means by which we earn a living isn't exactly smiled upon by society at large.

 

I personally would love having to maintain my own TP Industries style criminal enterprise as my means to earn money, but I am a well-adjusted adult that realizes this is only a game.

 

I am not sure parents would get the game for their kids if they knew that the MMO-ish piece encouraged drug smuggling, money laundering, and the like.

 

The game pretty much revolves around murder. Drug smuggling and money laundering aren't nearly as bad as that.

[Kid SixXx]

 

As much as I'd like to see a player driven economy in this game, thematically we are all criminals and the means by which we earn a living isn't exactly smiled upon by society at large.

 

I personally would love having to maintain my own TP Industries style criminal enterprise as my means to earn money, but I am a well-adjusted adult that realizes this is only a game.

 

I am not sure parents would get the game for their kids if they knew that the MMO-ish piece encouraged drug smuggling, money laundering, and the like.

 

The game pretty much revolves around murder. Drug smuggling and money laundering aren't nearly as bad as that.

 

Crime is crime. It's all bad. I am pretty sure most parents don't want their kids learning microeconomic principles via pimping hoes, laundering money, contract killing, or smuggling meth.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Kid SixXx

[Kampioen]

Yeah probably. Parents letting young children play video games with adult content is always questionable though.

[Kid SixXx]

Yeah probably. Parents letting young children play video games with adult content is always questionable though.

 

It is a game that indulges your vicious streak and like it or not, we all have one.

 

Adults can play the game in the proper context with the proper mindset. I personally can play this game, enjoy it for what it is, and not be tempted into criminal behavior.

 

I do sometimes wonder where my sticky bombs are whenever I see an armored car in real life, though.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Kid SixXx

[HalfOfZero]

I haven't read all of the original post, I'm quite busy at the moment.

 

Anyway, I've said before GTA online is cool, but it hasn't got the same economic system as other mmorpg's (to use as a comparison, as some don't wanna call it that.).

We can buy rare cars, and fine them, and modify and use them, and store them by........... And then one day sell it to a LSC garage. For 40% of what you've spent on it (i may be wrong?)

There's no market in place for players to trade with each other. I'd love to have a feature on our little in game phone, which is like eBay for motors. Users post their car for sale, the system automatically gives the description or lists modifications, maybe how many times its been impounded? That'd be cool. And the player sets a price for buy it now, or can auction it.... This would be amazing. It'd keep me massively hooked on the game tbh.

 

 

But first we need more cars. I know there's lots, but we would need LOADS and probs a bigger variety of modifications?

 

 

I think it'd be awesome though, and it'd entice players to buy cash cards to afford more cars. Maybe even cars that can only be attained through particular missions etc, a la every other mmorpg that rewards weapons etc.

 

 

Just an idea.

 

Ps. I'm on the toilet. Peace

[Lee Everett]

Friendly bump, still believe this could be relevant.

[Zwenkwiel]

 

There really can't be an "economy" unless there is a finite amount of money. As of now we have unlimited amounts by generating money through missions and cash cards.

 

Ermm..are you familiar with EVE online?

 

 

or you know the world we live in

our current economy does not have a finite supply of money, that's kind of the problem in a lot of countries right now

 

anyway the kind of economy that's being discussed here seems unsuitable for gta onine

sure trading property between players is far from impossible and many games have done it before

but those games have proper security and usually dedicated servers

with all the technical issues this game has I can imagine it being highly sensitive to abuse.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Zwenkwiel