what makes a good race, good?

[J_L_K_64]

when you like a race, what about it do you like? the twists and turns? the straight aways? the altitude changes?

 

i want to surprise my friends with a good race, but i can't for the life of me think of why a good race is good?

 

and i mean the race itself, not the competitors, i want to know about the course itself, location, setup, all that kind of jazz please

[reform]

The most important aspect is goodcheckpoint placement to ensure that players won't blame the race if they crash - as long as they never feel like they've been mislead a checkpoint arrow they'll find the race enjoyable.

 

Also, good barrier placement helps to limit how badly a player can go wrong on hazardous section of the course both as shields and as visual guide rails.

 

Everything else is fairly subjective. Most of my races are a result of driving around in free mode, Sometimes the routes you find yourelf taking can inspire you to create races based on them.

[KimberJane]

If you ever managed to play Nurbergring (the one which was verified) to me that was the epitome of a good track. It had everything needed - a tricky section, some good straights, nice altitude ups and downs, good view. Really good prop placement (the safety barriers).

That track seems to have disappeared now tho.

[IckyDoodyPoopoo]

I agree with Reform, though I would like to add that a great track should grow on you. That is, the fun factor should increase once you really get to know the track.

 

 

That's where opinion takes over. Seems like there's an army of people who wake up in the morning and cant wait to break out their adder, listen to Radio Los Santos and play Jumps Jumps Jumps, The Commute and Long Haul. To me these tracks lack any depth at all, but I would guess what people like about them is that they offer ample opportunities to wreck other people. Maybe that's what makes a good track to most people?

 

 

 

To me, tight/technical tracks are king. Imo, races are fun if they are won by those who: 1)Take the turns the fastest and 2) Have the skill to cleanly pass. A good race track should reward these skills with plenty of passable turns (turns with enough real estate to allow clean passes).

 

A good track should also be fun to drive. To me, fun to drive means the driver should be subjected to sideways G-forces for most of the track.

 

Finally, a good track should be good for hot-lapping. What makes a good hot-lapper?

- Lots of high risk/high reward lines, lines that you often wouldn't take in a race but that you must take if you want to have A CHANCE at the lowest time possible.

- The fastest line shouldn't be readily apparent, it should require repetition and trial and error to find the best line.

- The track should attempt to limit variance to driver skill only.

- Preferably, a hot-lapper should have no feasible run-up (a place where you can go off course to get a running start for your second lap) and laps in the 45 second to 2 minute range.

 

To me, a track that is fun to drive, good for racing and good for hot-lapping is sublime.

[IckyDoodyPoopoo]

If you ever managed to play Nurbergring (the one which was verified) to me that was the epitome of a good track. It had everything needed - a tricky section, some good straights, nice altitude ups and downs, good view. Really good prop placement (the safety barriers).

That track seems to have disappeared now tho.

The time/effort/know how that the creator put into that track is plainly clear. From a creative/technical standpoint it's nearly perfect. If track verification was a meritocracy, we'd have a bunch of tracks that are as well made as that one.

[mo-seph]

defo agree that a good race track has all of the above. you need to create something thats logical easy to follow but at the same time challenging, making your track too simple will get boring quickly, making it overly complicated is just frustrating... finding that balance between speed and skill is where adrenaline really comes into play.

 

when it comes to prop placement id recommend NOT using the small props in the path of your race, maybe on the edges of the course but not in the middle fo the road, it seems that texture pop-in is a bitch on the small props and in a fast race you hit them before you see them.personally i like to keep props to a minimum in my race, as nice as a tyre line might look when your placing it, not being able to see it until after your braking point makes it redundant and really disruptive to the flow of a track.

 

Nurburgring is an example of a reall really good track, but what can you expect when its based on one of the most challenging and interesting tracks in the world.... it combines all of the elements necessary for a good race, fast straights, technical turns and corners, a mix of pace and tempo changes...

 

also any of the tracks in the Approve Custom content threads (ps3 and Xbox versions) are example sof good and well built tracks. take a look at them, give them a run and see what you think..

 

 

something thats also overlooked is vehicle choice, if you make a track thats not suitable for certain vehicles,,, then take them out leaving only suitable classes/vehicles avaialbe to choose from... it might feel like your limiting choice, but in the long run it improves experience. Ive got a track (wont link cos im not whoring) thats a mix of on and off road sections, so supers/motorbikes just dont feel right in the offroad sections... but sports and coupes make it feel like a decent rally stage so them, alongside offroad are my vehicle classes for that track.

[Nudg3r]

A good race is a race with really big checkpoints

[IckyDoodyPoopoo]

A good race is a race with really big checkpoints

Ahaaaha, seriously though, if I could ask Rstar for one thing it would be stretchable/resizable CPs

[Guest]

What sux is even when your race is good ppl will vote it down when they lose or players in it race dirty.

[J_L_K_64]

What sux is even when your race is good ppl will vote it down when they lose or players in it race dirty.

oh i'm not really worried what other random people think about it, this is gunna just be for me and my friends, i like to surprise them ever so often and i really wanna make a fun track for us

Edited March 12, 2014 by J_L_K_64

[Cuz05]

Checkpoint placement is king in my book. An awful lot boils down to taste but there is no taste for wonky, inconsistent CPs.

2nd point for me is just an opinion, flow is important. There's an art to this and you can only really begin to suss it by racing a track fully. I've made a dozen or so races (sig) and the reverse editing I did to improve flow once I properly started racing them was most of the work. Tbh, it can be never ending, I could go back over them all and find myself tweaking bits and pieces.

[mo-seph]

 

A good race is a race with really big checkpoints

Ahaaaha, seriously though, if I could ask Rstar for one thing it would be stretchable/resizable CPs

 

 

i would love to have resizable checkpoints, annoys me when creator randomly throws down a really small checkpoint, altho ive convinced myself that the range of a checkpoint stretches further than the visual ring, because on tracks i race alot i commonly "miss" the yellow marker for the checkpoint and it still registers, what i cant figure out is if in content creator the small and the big checkpoints have the same recognized area.

 

Checkpoint placement is king in my book. An awful lot boils down to taste but there is no taste for wonky, inconsistent CPs.

2nd point for me is just an opinion, flow is important. There's an art to this and you can only really begin to suss it by racing a track fully. I've made a dozen or so races (sig) and the reverse editing I did to improve flow once I properly started racing them was most of the work. Tbh, it can be never ending, I could go back over them all and find myself tweaking bits and pieces.

 

 

a good point well made cuz.... flow is a subjective thing, but ultimately a race thats constantly broken by change has no "build" for me, there needs to be some sections where the flow is easy going, where you can develop speed, have space to make safe/smart overtakes, but then mix it up wiht more challenging technical areas that change the tempo of the track from something fast to something more slow and controlled...

 

my fav races are always a good combination of these two, a straight flat out race (route 68, commute etc) on their own are quite boring and need stuff like traffic to make it a bit more challenging, races that are full of so many awkward tight corners feel more like work than fun... so for me the "flow" of which you speak is a balanced track that offers both elements, and the transition between the two is executed skillfully, where flow changes smoothly and tempo adjusts without too much disruption...

 

 

as a side note is also worth noting that tracks dont need to be published for you to race them with other people... obv when you publish if you make changes you lose the likes/dislikes... however if you save a track you are able to host it and invite other players... when your testing thats a good idea as it avoids dislike votes from the track being unfinished, but also means you wont be losing likes from the votes because of making improvement sto your tracks...

[IckyDoodyPoopoo]

i would love to have resizable checkpoints, annoys me when creator randomly throws down a really small checkpoint, altho ive convinced myself that the range of a checkpoint stretches further than the visual ring, because on tracks i race alot i commonly "miss" the yellow marker for the checkpoint and it still registers, what i cant figure out is if in content creator the small and the big checkpoints have the same recognized area.

As far as I can tell, small CPs only happen when you place the CP under something (under anything, even a power line). For large CPs, the hit box extends about a car width outside of the yellow border. I think also that small CPs have the same sized hit box as the large ones.

[Nitty Don]

 

as a side note is also worth noting that tracks dont need to be published for you to race them with other people... obv when you publish if you make changes you lose the likes/dislikes... however if you save a track you are able to host it and invite other players... when your testing thats a good idea as it avoids dislike votes from the track being unfinished, but also means you wont be losing likes from the votes because of making improvement sto your tracks...

 

 

They fixed the losing of votes with edits in the last update ... so feel free to edit away !!

 

Also in regards to small CP's you can change this if disliked, just move the CP back or forward slightly and make sure your CP is in the middle of the road.

There are places where it is impossible for large CP's this will mainly be when there is something above for example any CP's placed under a bridge will always be small.

They do not share the same space, but you are correct CP's don't need a direct hit, you can skim most, I did try experimenting (in race) but found I missed a few trying to push my luck !!

 

Hope this helps

[mo-seph]

 

 

as a side note is also worth noting that tracks dont need to be published for you to race them with other people... obv when you publish if you make changes you lose the likes/dislikes... however if you save a track you are able to host it and invite other players... when your testing thats a good idea as it avoids dislike votes from the track being unfinished, but also means you wont be losing likes from the votes because of making improvement sto your tracks...

 

 

They fixed the losing of votes with edits in the last update ... so feel free to edit away !!

 

Also in regards to small CP's you can change this if disliked, just move the CP back or forward slightly and make sure your CP is in the middle of the road.

There are places where it is impossible for large CP's this will mainly be when there is something above for example any CP's placed under a bridge will always be small.

They do not share the same space, but you are correct CP's don't need a direct hit, you can skim most, I did try experimenting (in race) but found I missed a few trying to push my luck !!

 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

h yea, ive fallen foul of missing checkpoints from "edging" them a few times (fecking dorset drive hahaha)

[handcuff_charlie]

Well for starters.....

 

it must give A LOT OF RP TO RACE!!!!!!!

 

JUMPS with JUMPS that jump off of more JUMPS

 

it should also be comprised entirely of freeway road so that you never lift your finger off R2..in fact I should be able to just remove the L2 button from my controller and not regret it

[mo-seph]

Well for starters.....

 

it must give A LOT OF RP TO RACE!!!!!!!

 

JUMPS with JUMPS that jump off of more JUMPS

 

it should also be comprised entirely of freeway road so that you never lift your finger off R2..in fact I should be able to just remove the L2 button from my controller and not regret it

 

 

lol, have you ever seen this?? i think you would feel right at home...

[reform]

Oh! One more thing!

 

Use some god damn creativity! Too many races are just a dull loop/point to point on some vanilla peice of road with no flavour thrown in.

 

Study the route(s) you are considering for your race, and where possible, think about whether a corner should be a tight hairpin, or a sweeping curve, or whether a stretch of road is too long and could use a chicane (or jump if that's your thing). Use roads (and other areas) in ways for which they maybe weren't intended. People know the roads in the game rpretty well no, so do something unique with them.

[Cuz05]

Another thing. Testing, testing, testing. You made the track so you know where to go. Your 1st tests should be run to make sure everything basically works. Your next series is important, I run mine on different lines, I underbrake corners, I race it following the CPs and paying as little attention to the road as possible. I'm basically trying to run it from the perspective of new drivers, I often make a lot of minor changes during this process. Lastly, the 1st half dozen times you run it with others is part of the test process. Pay attention to where they struggle, don't fly off and leave them to it. Listen to their feedback if they give it.

Also, original is good, difficult is good, confusing is not.

[CJXJ220]

I like tracks with a bit of everything: technical sections, fast straights, elevation changes, even jumps are fine as long as they are used in moderation and it isn't some preposterous leap over a building or some other huge obstacle where the slightest mistake destroys your race.

 

Thrills in the Hills is my favorite of the R* created tracks, I use it for all of my vehicle testing.

[Phyxsius-]

when you like a race, what about it do you like? the twists and turns? the straight aways? the altitude changes?

 

i want to surprise my friends with a good race, but i can't for the life of me think of why a good race is good?

 

and i mean the race itself, not the competitors, i want to know about the course itself, location, setup, all that kind of jazz please

Monte Carlo, Hungaroring, Spa-Franchorchamps.

 

It won`t be a bad idea for someone to make a full Formula 1 calendar

Edited March 21, 2014 by Phyxsius-